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Post by chuck on Feb 7, 2024 20:23:50 GMT -5
The Faith Mission had Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry; going from house to house but had Sunday morning meetings but without Christ’t Passover/Eucharists/emblems. The 2x2 copied the Faith Mission Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry and Sunday morning but the 2x2s add the emblems and baptism for their converts. By the way, the Faith Mission got Matthew 10 and Luke 10 from Jesus teachings and so the 2x2s. That is gospel in the nut shell. No that is not the gospel. Do you know where the term come from Nathan?
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 7, 2024 20:24:39 GMT -5
By the way, the Faith Mission got Matthew 10 and Luke 10 from Jesus teachings and so the 2x2s. That is gospel in the nut shell. No that is not the gospel. Do you know where the term come from Nathan? No, you tell me.
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 7, 2024 20:30:11 GMT -5
The Faith Mission had Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry; going from house to house but had Sunday morning meetings but without Christ’t Passover/Eucharists/emblems. The 2x2 copied the Faith Mission Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry and Sunday morning but the 2x2s add the emblems and baptism for their converts. You make it up as you go Nathan. The workers did not have Sunday morning meetings until several years later. It was their intention that everyone who joined them went out preaching but for many this was not possible so a few years later they started fellowship meetings. Where did you get it from that the Faith Mission had Sunday morning meetings. They were based on the premise which the workers copied, which was that everyone goes preaching. They were part of mainstream Churches. I would guess they would have prayer meetings, many Christians have prayer meetings. Does not make them a church. The Faith Missions purpose was not to be a church but to work with the churches that were there. Where does it say the Faith Mission workers stayed in converts homes? They would have gone house to house inviting people to hear them, that's a lot different from staying in their homes. The FM had Sunday union prayer meeting. What do you think they do in those Sunday meeting? The 2x2s started their Sunday morning worship gathering with emblem After 1900ish. So, tell me where do you think the FM workers stay at nights? Motel? Where do the workers eat foods breakfast, lunch or dinners? At the Restaurants? Where do the FM take showers for the evening? In the river.
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 7, 2024 20:50:12 GMT -5
NOT so, the 2x2 is NOT a dying breed at all. It will continue to the time of Christ returns. Read 24:-30-35. Once the 2x2s got the CSA workers abused eliminated from the ministry and fellowship Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry will prosper again. God is cleaning the ministry and the church right now. The only reason they got so many people in the early days was because of the lie they told that they have no earthly founder and go back to the shores of Galilee. This won't work anymore with the internet. The sexual abuse is not the only reason people are not interestedin the workers. Lack of interest started years before the sexual abuse was acknowledged. Honest people are leaving and want no part of it. Only families are in it. What a bunch of baloney! About honest people are leaving. Wait, 3-5 years the 2x2 will thrive again after the CSA is under control after they eliminate the 2x2 abusers from the ministry and fellowship. Look what happened in 1980s the exes books written against the 2x2; after awhile things go as usual. In 2000s many exes websites pop ups everywhere after awhile things go as usual…. The last 2 years with DeanB fiasco, CSA deals Went crazy! Ballistic… after 3 years things go back to normal as usual, they learn and fix their mistakes, then the 2x2s continue on to the end time. Satan just take the weak, the wounded in hearts and minds, the astray along the border one by one, but the strong will lead the rest to continue on and go forward, no looking back. Remember Lot’s wife? She looked back and turned into a pillar of salt.
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Post by chuck on Feb 7, 2024 20:55:45 GMT -5
No that is not the gospel. Do you know where the term come from Nathan? No, you tell me. It came from the Romans. Do you know why?
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 7, 2024 21:12:20 GMT -5
The FM had Sunday union prayer meeting. What do you think they do in those Sunday meeting? The 2x2s started their Sunday morning worship gathering with emblem After 1900ish. So, tell me where do you think the FM workers stay at nights? Motel?[ br] Where do the workers eat foods breakfast, lunch or dinners? At the Restuarant? Where do the FM take showers for the evening? In the river. Often places like the Faith Mission and Bible colleges have accommodation attached to them. They could easily rent a place together as well. They could board with people but i'm sure they would pay something rather than just freeload on people like some others we know. Living with converts is not the only way to live. Stop making things up that you have no proof of. The Faith Mission still has prayer meetings, nothing to do with Sunday morning fellowship meetings. They encourage meeting with local churches. faithmission.orgIt is all over the UK. People have their own homes. Mountain, send me the Faith Mission book in the early day! I also have Cornelius’ book and there is a section in there about the FM 2x2 ministry how they live. So, I have a good idea how they operate, you know. Shame on you! Calling Jesus, the apostles and workers freeloaders on people. You were a 2x2 but you hardly understand how it works! You speak like a heathen. You need to read I Cor. 9: 6-14 Paul wrote Jesus, him and the 2x2 workers are NOT FREE LOADERS! but it’s God will and plan for Jesus and apostles and workers to be homeless, and the friends to support and help them all the can. The Godhead is way much smarter than you, me and all the humans on earth put together. God’s way is best, his method is way much better than all us ours methods put together, his thoughts are much wiser and higher than ours, He is from above and we are from below.
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Post by xna on Feb 7, 2024 21:48:45 GMT -5
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 7, 2024 23:33:02 GMT -5
Mountain, send me the Faith Mission book in the early day! I also have Cornelius’ book and there is a section in there about the FM 2x2 ministry how they live. So, I have a good idea how they operate, you know. Shame on you! Calling Jesus, the apostles and workers freeloaders on people. You were a 2x2 but you hardly understand how it works! You speak like a heathen. You need to read I Cor. 9: 6-14 Paul wrote Jesus, him and the 2x2 workers are NOT FREE LOADERS! but it’s God will and plan for Jesus and apostles and workers to be homeless, and the friends to support and help them all the can. The Godhead is way much smarter than you, me and all the humans on earth put together. God’s way is best, his method is way much better than all us ours methods put together, his thoughts are much wiser and higher than ours, He is from above and we are from below. I should have said the workers living free off their converts, would have been better wording. You have a habit of making things up. Quote from the Faith Mission where they say they lived with their converts. What we've seen is that they did not make converts for themselves but worked for the established churches. I don't believe some of what Cornelius wrote. He was a 2x2 and biased his book towards the 2x2s. I was a 3rd generation 2x2 so know how it works. You only came in the last 40 years and spent a few years not attending that time either. Obviously the workers living with people is not God's way. We see the fruits of that as it puts children and women at risk of abuse. You also say the workers had a revelation but are now saying it came from the Faith Mission. Irvine claimed it was his idea based on Matthew 10. No mention of the FM. Where do you think the 2x2 workers get the idea of living with the friends from? Think about it? The 2x2 early days workers got the revelation that Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry is according to the Scriptures and they want to continue that method. You need to read the FM 2x2 ministry they based their foundation on Matthew 10. In 1898 it was WI and his Faith Mission co-worker Fred who had a study with John Long on Matthew 10. It was in that Matthew 10 Bible study, that John Long decided to become Faith Mission Prayer Union member from 1898-1914. William Irvine and the early days workers based their 2x2 ministry after the pattern on Matthew 10 just like the Faith Mission.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 0:13:10 GMT -5
Yes. Now look at this Priene calendar inscription from 9bc, some very familiar language in it if you are familiar with the NT “Since Providence, which has ordered all things and is deeply interested in our life, has set in most perfect order by giving us Augustus, whom she filled with virtue that he might benefit humankind, sending him as a savior, both for us and for our descendants, that he might end war and arrange all things, and since he, Caesar, by his appearance (excelled even our anticipations), surpassing all previous benefactors, and not even leaving to posterity any hope of surpassing what he has done, and since the birthday of the god Augustus was the beginning of the good tidings [εὐαγγέλιον] for the world that came by reason of him,” Surpassing all benefactors- Phillipians 2:9 Beginning of good tidings Luke 2:10 and it doesn't end there, you can also see the same thing with the poet Virgil. It's all language taken from the Romans but with a different narrative attached to it. Basically the Jesus story is a allegory full of Roman phrases to counter the way of Caeser and the way of the Roman empire with better way to live.
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 9:57:58 GMT -5
The early workers were NOT LYING at ALL. They got that revelation from God and Christ. That was how I received the same revelation without Jesus 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry New T. And God’s people history to back it up! I just read Jesus teachings and I believed in Faith! Jesus said to the apostles Upon this ROCK! I will build MY Church and the gates of HELL Shall NOT prevail against it.. And this gospel shall be preached to all nations then shall come the end of Gentiles era. Prove it without using the bible or referencing it. Read the Pilgrim Church book by Broadbent chapter V on line. The Vaudois apostles have 1800 years history of Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry and fellowship. You can read their Church history, teachings, belief and so on. There are almost identical as the early day 2x2s workers Jesus apostolic Itinerant ministry and Sunday worship fellowship.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 16:09:41 GMT -5
Prove it without using the bible or referencing it. Read the Pilgrim Church book by Broadbent chapter V on line. The Vaudois apostles have 1800 years history of Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry and fellowship. You can read their Church history, teachings, belief and so on. There are almost identical as the early day 2x2s workers Jesus apostolic Itinerant ministry and Sunday worship fellowship. No they are not almost identical. Jesus was Hebrew, not a "Christian".
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 16:11:56 GMT -5
Read the Pilgrim Church book by Broadbent chapter V on line. The Vaudois apostles have 1800 years history of Jesus Christ 2x2 apostolic Itinerant ministry and fellowship. You can read their Church history, teachings, belief and so on. There are almost identical as the early day 2x2s workers Jesus apostolic Itinerant ministry and Sunday worship fellowship. No they are not almost identical. Jesus was Hebrew, not a "Christian". Identical with Jesus New Test. 2x2apostolic Itinerant ministry, belief, teachings, methods, and in spirits like Two peas in a pot.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 16:16:32 GMT -5
No they are not almost identical. Jesus was Hebrew, not a "Christian". Identical with Jesus New Test. 2x2apostolic Itinerant ministry, belief, teachings, methods, and in spirits like Two peas in a pot. No Nathan, you are not understanding the implications of the fact that Jesus was a Hebrew. What you are doing is pasting another tradition over the top of who he actually was.
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 16:44:45 GMT -5
Identical with Jesus New Test. 2x2apostolic Itinerant ministry, belief, teachings, methods, and in spirits like Two peas in a pot. No Nathan, you are not understanding the implications of the fact that Jesus was a Hebrew. What you are doing is pasting another tradition over the top of who he actually was. Like I said you are a goner as a 2x2 ! When you first arrive on TMB. Your belief/understanding is corrupted and don’t make much sense for a long, long time.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 17:31:36 GMT -5
No Nathan, you are not understanding the implications of the fact that Jesus was a Hebrew. What you are doing is pasting another tradition over the top of who he actually was. Like I said you are a goner as a 2x2 ! When you first arrive on TMB. Your belief/understanding is corrupted and don’t make much sense for a long, long time. What a great reply. Explain what you really mean by "goner" Nathan, and dont try and surgar coat it, explain in detail what that means for me that I'm a "goner".
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 17:48:55 GMT -5
Like I said you are a goner as a 2x2 ! When you first arrive on TMB. Your belief/understanding is corrupted and don’t make much sense for a long, long time. What a great reply. Explain what you really mean by "goner" Nathan, and dont try and surgar coat it, explain in detail what that means for me that I'm a "goner". Goner means you claimed to be a 2x2 on here but your posts and heart was NOT in it.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 17:57:07 GMT -5
What a bunch of baloney! About honest people are leaving. Wait, 3-5 years the 2x2 will thrive again after the CSA is under control after they eliminate the 2x2 abusers from the ministry and fellowship. Look what happened in 1980s the exes books written against the 2x2; after awhile things go as usual. In 2000s many exes websites pop ups everywhere after awhile things go as usual…. The last 2 years with DeanB fiasco, CSA deals Went crazy! Ballistic… after 3 years things go back to normal as usual, they learn and fix their mistakes, then the 2x2s continue on to the end time. Satan just take the weak, the wounded in hearts and minds, the astray along the border one by one, but the strong will lead the rest to continue on and go forward, no looking back. Remember Lot’s wife? She looked back and turned into a pillar of salt. Nathan I don't think you can even compare CSA with reading a book about the 2x2 origins. There is absolutely no comparison. People are looking at what the people they respected and loved were doing and learning that they were telling CSA survivors to not report it, forgive and forget and if they didn't then they ruined their reputation and either kicked them out or drove them out because they had turned the rest of the friends against them. Then they moved the abuser to a new area without any warning to the friends and the process started all over again with new targets. That is not something any moral human being would do. We now know that the head overseers did exactly that. Over and Over and Over. The people leaving now, and there are many, will never come back. I predict that when this is over there won't be enough friends to 'support' the number of workers that exist right now. Im astounded by Nathan's comment that things "went back to usual", implying there was nothing wrong then it went wrong then it went back to nothing wrong. It started off with a power hungry womaniser using scripture as a sword......it has never been right, good people have been conned right from the start, and its only got worse. Usual is by fact "corrupt", the recipts are evident enough, unusual is every time the reciepts are just exposed. It is becoming obvious in Australia proper people are leaving because they cannot live with knowing "the usual". That comment may cop some hate but I see people leaving because they cannot support a ministry that covers things up. Workers are also leaving because they cannot live with the coverup and improper behaviour. The ones left are those happy with the status quo and support a corrupt ministry. Now obviously there are still proper people in the ministry and amongst the friends, lets see how long they last as this show is corrupt to the core and good people will not last in it. Edit, there ate some outliers who cannot leave, it has been there whole life, some quite old and it woud be like starting life again on deaths door, it would literally kill them. Which is sad and highlights the evil at the heart of this.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 17:58:18 GMT -5
What a great reply. Explain what you really mean by "goner" Nathan, and dont try and surgar coat it, explain in detail what that means for me that I'm a "goner". Goner means you claimed to be a 2x2 on here but your posts and heart was NOT in it. Gutless, tell us what that entails.....
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 18:11:06 GMT -5
What a great reply. Explain what you really mean by "goner" Nathan, and dont try and surgar coat it, explain in detail what that means for me that I'm a "goner". Goner means you claimed to be a 2x2 on here but your posts and heart was NOT in it. Oh you are wrong, my heart was in it, what my heart wasn't in was accepting people not like me were gonna be punished in fire. At the core of this is the age old question you don't have the guts to answer. If I don't see it like you will I burn in hell?.
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 18:27:13 GMT -5
Nathan I don't think you can even compare CSA with reading a book about the 2x2 origins. There is absolutely no comparison. People are looking at what the people they respected and loved were doing and learning that they were telling CSA survivors to not report it, forgive and forget and if they didn't then they ruined their reputation and either kicked them out or drove them out because they had turned the rest of the friends against them. Then they moved the abuser to a new area without any warning to the friends and the process started all over again with new targets. That is not something any moral human being would do. We now know that the head overseers did exactly that. Over and Over and Over. The people leaving now, and there are many, will never come back. I predict that when this is over there won't be enough friends to 'support' the number of workers that exist right now. Im astounded by Nathan's comment that things "went back to usual", implying there was nothing wrong then it went wrong then it went back to nothing wrong. It started off with a power hungry womaniser using scripture as a sword......it has never been right, good people have been conned right from the start. Usual is by fact "corrupt", the recipts are evident enough, unusual is every time the reciepts are just exposed. It is becoming obvious in Australia proper people are leaving because they cannot live with knowing "the usual". That comment may cop some hate but I see people leaving because they cannot support a ministry that covers things up. Workers are also leaving because they cannot live with the coverup and improper behaviour. The ones left are those happy with the status quo and support a corrupt ministry. Now obviously there are still proper people in the ministry and amongst the friends, lets see how long they last as this show is corrupt to the core and good people will not last in it. What I meant was, they learned from the overseers, the senior workers mistakes, blunder, fiasco, hopefully CSA will never raise its ugly heads again, but Jesus Truth and Way must continue on, going forward!
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 18:31:28 GMT -5
Goner means you claimed to be a 2x2 on here but your posts and heart was NOT in it. Oh you are wrong, my heart was in it, what my heart wasn't in was accepting people not like me were gonna be punished in fire. At the core of this is the age old question you don't have the guts to answer. If I don't see it like you will I burn in hell?. Wally and I told you MANY, MANY times in the past…. It’s NOT what we believe or NOT believe doesn’t matter but what Jesus teaches matter, where most people will end up either in Heaven or Hell.
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 18:44:29 GMT -5
Im astounded by Nathan's comment that things "went back to usual", implying there was nothing wrong then it went wrong then it went back to nothing wrong. It started off with a power hungry womaniser using scripture as a sword......it has never been right, good people have been conned right from the start, and its only got worse. Usual is by fact "corrupt", the recipts are evident enough, unusual is every time the reciepts are just exposed. It is becoming obvious in Australia proper people are leaving because they cannot live with knowing "the usual". That comment may cop some hate but I see people leaving because they cannot support a ministry that covers things up. Workers are also leaving because they cannot live with the coverup and improper behaviour. The ones left are those happy with the status quo and support a corrupt ministry. Now obviously there are still proper people in the ministry and amongst the friends, lets see how long they last as this show is corrupt to the core and good people will not last in it. Edit, there ate some outliers who cannot leave, it has been there whole life, some quite old and it woud be like starting life again on deaths door, it would literally kill them. Which is sad and highlights the evil at the heart of this. Absolutely there are good workers and good people still in the fellowship. But they are getting to be the minority these days. I think that many of the good people that are hanging in there are also not supporting the workers financially or offering their homes at the moment. Some probably are, but from what I hear on the forums of those still in they have withdrawn financial support at the moment. It's not a bad system of how to meet together. It's just sad that it became so corrupt at the top and that is now jeopardizing the way the friends have lived. It's a flawed system having them stay in people's homes I believe and I think it's very evident why it's not a good thing. If they could have a house in their area for the workers when they come to their area, that would help I think. I am so glad that my parents aren't living to see what is happening now. My mother professed at 18 and lived to be 96. How do you deal with what's happening when your whole life has been wrapped up in a system that has kept itself separate for the most part? I am so sorry for those people. I believe it is good that some of the friends are NOT supporting the ministry right now! To wake up the ministry, the overseers world wide, the senior workers, all the workers to take CSA seriously, and eliminate CSA abusers from the ministry and fellowship. Enough is Enough! Once the CSA is eliminated from the ministry and most of the friends are aware about CSA, they will teach their children to be on the alert and themselves also. Like Paul wrote in Romans 10 How beautiful are the feet of them who bring glad tithing of the gospel into people lives and homes. Like I said recently, I had MANY wonderful, awesome memories with the workers before I was in the work! I had greater memories of being in the friends homes, getting to KNOW them and their families. They consider me as another member of their family. I will cherish many of those fond memories beyond this life into the next life.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 19:04:15 GMT -5
Im astounded by Nathan's comment that things "went back to usual", implying there was nothing wrong then it went wrong then it went back to nothing wrong. It started off with a power hungry womaniser using scripture as a sword......it has never been right, good people have been conned right from the start. Usual is by fact "corrupt", the recipts are evident enough, unusual is every time the reciepts are just exposed. It is becoming obvious in Australia proper people are leaving because they cannot live with knowing "the usual". That comment may cop some hate but I see people leaving because they cannot support a ministry that covers things up. Workers are also leaving because they cannot live with the coverup and improper behaviour. The ones left are those happy with the status quo and support a corrupt ministry. Now obviously there are still proper people in the ministry and amongst the friends, lets see how long they last as this show is corrupt to the core and good people will not last in it. What I meant was, they learned from the overseers, the senior workers mistakes, blunder, fiasco, hopefully CSA will never raise its ugly heads again, but Jesus Truth and Way must continue on, going forward! Im sorry but you are delusional. Reality shows just what happens when your Idea of Jesus Truth and Way continues.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 19:28:46 GMT -5
Oh you are wrong, my heart was in it, what my heart wasn't in was accepting people not like me were gonna be punished in fire. At the core of this is the age old question you don't have the guts to answer. If I don't see it like you will I burn in hell?. Wally and I told you MANY, MANY times in the past…. It’s NOT what we believe or NOT believe doesn’t matter but what Jesus teaches matter, where most people will end up either in Heaven or Hell. What this tells me Nathan is you do not have enough confidence in your religious performance to be 100% sure or you are a coward and cannot tell me what you really think.
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 20:32:30 GMT -5
Wally and I told you MANY, MANY times in the past…. It’s NOT what we believe or NOT believe doesn’t matter but what Jesus teaches matter, where most people will end up either in Heaven or Hell. What this tells me Nathan is you do not have enough confidence in your religious performance to be 100% sure or you are a coward and cannot tell me what you really think. Wally and I told you for 2 years with 100s posts. go back and read it for yourself.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 22:09:40 GMT -5
What this tells me Nathan is you do not have enough confidence in your religious performance to be 100% sure or you are a coward and cannot tell me what you really think. Wally and I told you for 2 years with 100s posts. go back and read it for yourself. I am well aware of what you told me. What you have told me is you are confident enough in your own rightness to infer anyone who does not see it like you is headed to hell to suffer as they deserve it, but do not have the balls to say it plainly.
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 8, 2024 22:18:32 GMT -5
Wally and I told you for 2 years with 100s posts. go back and read it for yourself. I am well aware of what you told me. What you have told me is you are confident enough in your own rightness to infer anyone who does not see it like you is headed to hell to suffer as they deserve it, but do not have the balls to say it plainly. All I did was point Jesus teachings which you don’t agree with. Read Jesus own teachings they are NOT mine. John 3:16-21. Jesus spoke about heaven and hell/Luke 16, which you don’t believe in.
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Post by chuck on Feb 8, 2024 23:04:26 GMT -5
I am well aware of what you told me. What you have told me is you are confident enough in your own rightness to infer anyone who does not see it like you is headed to hell to suffer as they deserve it, but do not have the balls to say it plainly. All I did was point Jesus teachings which you don’t agree with. Read Jesus own teachings they are NOT mine. John 3:16-21. Jesus spoke about heaven and hell/Luke 16, which you don’t believe in. Like I said, confident enough in your own rightness to infer I'm headed to and deserve Hell.
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