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Post by chuck on Feb 14, 2024 5:08:03 GMT -5
Our soul is our being, it's whether we are a living soul or a dead one that's important. I really don't see we have a choice in the matter, when you stop breathing you are a dead one, there will be no opportunity to change that.
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Post by maryhig on Feb 14, 2024 7:33:18 GMT -5
Our soul is our being, it's whether we are a living soul or a dead one that's important. I really don't see we have a choice in the matter, when you stop breathing you are a dead one, there will be no opportunity to change that. I'm not speaking about literally dying, we can be dead to God if we don't have his Spirit. We can be a living soul or a dead soul depending on whether we belong to God and are born anew of the Spirit of God or not. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. I believe our soul is our being, and we can be a living or a dead soul to God in this lifetime. And our soul (our being) leaves this body when we die. Genesis 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.
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Post by Lee on Feb 14, 2024 13:41:03 GMT -5
Right. We’re all zombies and psychopaths. Get a life I am not surprised by the reaction unfortunately, it always follows scrutiny of baseless religious commentary. You have a pact with death. We don’t.
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Post by chuck on Feb 14, 2024 17:21:42 GMT -5
I really don't see we have a choice in the matter, when you stop breathing you are a dead one, there will be no opportunity to change that. I'm not speaking about literally dying, we can be dead to God if we don't have his Spirit. We can be a living soul or a dead soul depending on whether we belong to God and are born anew of the Spirit of God or not. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. I believe our soul is our being, and we can be a living or a dead soul to God in this lifetime. And our soul (our being) leaves this body when we die. Genesis 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem. This notion that the soul is a immaterial thing your body hosts and then leaves the body upon death is not their philosophy. Their philosophy is when breath enters the body it becomes a living soul, and when you stop breathing you are a dead soul. That's it, any continuance of the soul while the body is dead is not an idea they promoted, the idea come from somewhere else, it would pay to look where this idea and many others come from as its leading you up the garden path so to speak and has untold future ramifications.
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Post by chuck on Feb 14, 2024 17:30:36 GMT -5
I am not surprised by the reaction unfortunately, it always follows scrutiny of baseless religious commentary. You have a pact with death. We don’t. Another baseless statement, the problem is like I ask Nathan, if your wrong how will you know..... Its at this point I would ask what do you base this deathless pact you have on?, could you point me to an example, preferably someone you know.....like other statments of say ressurection, you still have provided no basis to the claim. The above statement that infers reward of life for one self for participation in a particular belief system also points to the fundemental flaw of the belief, its the epitome of selfishness......and heaven help anyone who gets in-between the seeker and their goal of self preservation....
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2024 20:10:45 GMT -5
Not true. The hebrew concept of ‘soul’ conveyed possession. Not so fast. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. He did not HAVE a soul, he WAS a soul. There was no "soul" until he "breathed". This is why in Judaism the soul "does not go to heaven". Jews do not cremate bodies, lest there is nothing left for anything in an afterlife, like a resurrection.
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Post by chuck on Feb 14, 2024 21:15:03 GMT -5
Not true. The hebrew concept of ‘soul’ conveyed possession. Not so fast. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. He did not HAVE a soul, he WAS a soul. There was no "soul" until he "breathed". This is why in Judaism the soul "does not go to heaven". Jews do not cremate bodies, lest there is nothing left for anything in an afterlife, like a resurrection. This idea "go to heaven" also seems to have come from elsewhere?.
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2024 23:29:09 GMT -5
Not so fast. Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. He did not HAVE a soul, he WAS a soul. There was no "soul" until he "breathed". This is why in Judaism the soul "does not go to heaven". Jews do not cremate bodies, lest there is nothing left for anything in an afterlife, like a resurrection. This idea "go to heaven" also seems to have come from elsewhere?. I asked a practicing Jew if Jews believed in a heaven. The reply was that it was an irrelevant question. The Jews were God's chosen people, but when they (or people in general) die, they are just dead -- period. The one exception being the super faithfully Law abiding Jews may rise when some finally judgement comes for the whole earth -- presumably if their remains were not consumed by cremation. You will find Jews in modern times who will possibly believe in heaven. This is said to be some of the eastern philosophy that the captive Jews picked up before they migrated back to Palestine from Babylon, but it is considered something like a superstition by traditional Jewry.
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Post by chuck on Feb 15, 2024 0:02:59 GMT -5
This idea "go to heaven" also seems to have come from elsewhere?. I asked a practicing Jew if Jews believed in a heaven. The reply was that it was an irrelevant question. The Jews were God's chosen people, but when they (or people in general) die, they are just dead -- period. The one exception being the super faithfully Law abiding Jews may rise when some finally judgement comes for the whole earth -- presumably if their remains were not consumed by cremation. You will find Jews in modern times who will possibly believe in heaven. This is said to be some of the eastern philosophy that the captive Jews picked up before they migrated back to Palestine from Babylon, but it is considered something like a superstition by traditional Jewry. Thanks Bob. Is it just me or are people willfully ignorant of the culture the scriptures were predominately set in? It seems to me the idea of Heaven was something that overlapped with earth, as terms like wordly or of this world, heaven and earth ect, are references to culture or particular cultures and not celestial bodies and places/realms above away from or within them. I think Gods chosen people is a loaded term, like any tribe past or present they have to elevate the tribe regardless of its character traits, also the symbolism that's tied up in the idea of the "children of Israel" is quite fascinating to me.
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
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Posts: 3,362
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 15, 2024 0:45:19 GMT -5
This idea "go to heaven" also seems to have come from elsewhere?. I asked a practicing Jew if Jews believed in a heaven. The reply was that it was an irrelevant question. The Jews were God's chosen people, but when they (or people in general) die, they are just dead -- period. The one exception being the super faithfully Law abiding Jews may rise when some finally judgement comes for the whole earth -- presumably if their remains were not consumed by cremation. You will find Jews in modern times who will possibly believe in heaven. This is said to be some of the eastern philosophy that the captive Jews picked up before they migrated back to Palestine from Babylon, but it is considered something like a superstition by traditional Jewry. This is a bunch of baloney! Jesus God/Man was a Jew lived under the Old Testament laws of Moses and he taught and preached heaven in the gospel that he came down from heaven and about Hell/Hades in Luke 16. King David was an Israelite and he KNEW about hades when he was alive and didn’t want to stay. He knew about the Messiah, who would die for him and humanity, and he would set them free from hades Read Acts 2:22-36; I Peter 4:6; Eph 4:9.
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 15, 2024 1:45:20 GMT -5
I asked a practicing Jew if Jews believed in a heaven. The reply was that it was an irrelevant question. The Jews were God's chosen people, but when they (or people in general) die, they are just dead -- period. The one exception being the super faithfully Law abiding Jews may rise when some finally judgement comes for the whole earth -- presumably if their remains were not consumed by cremation. You will find Jews in modern times who will possibly believe in heaven. This is said to be some of the eastern philosophy that the captive Jews picked up before they migrated back to Palestine from Babylon, but it is considered something like a superstition by traditional Jewry. Thanks Bob. Is it just me or are people willfully ignorant of the culture the scriptures were predominately set in? It seems to me the idea of Heaven was something that overlapped with earth, as terms like wordly or of this world, heaven and earth ect, are references to culture or particular cultures and not celestial bodies and places/realms above away from or within them. I think Gods chosen people is a loaded term, like any tribe past or present they have to elevate the tribe regardless of its character traits, also the symbolism that's tied up in the idea of the "children of Israel" is quite fascinating to me. No, it's not just you. Except for scholars, modern Christians project the whole of Christian theology onto the Old Testament -- which means they can preach about such things as speaking to King David when they get to heaven. It is Islam that has maintained the belief in Jewish theology, not the Christian. Even the Pope has made that claim. And you're right -- the symbolism in the OT Jewish literature is really fascinating and far out of the scope of regular Christian thinking, which is really Greek in origin. Not surprising -- the Roman church did not accept the writings of Paul until Augustine came along and turned the whole thing upside down, to the chagrin of the original Jewish believers such as Peter, their "first pope".
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 15, 2024 1:58:13 GMT -5
I asked a practicing Jew if Jews believed in a heaven. The reply was that it was an irrelevant question. The Jews were God's chosen people, but when they (or people in general) die, they are just dead -- period. The one exception being the super faithfully Law abiding Jews may rise when some finally judgement comes for the whole earth -- presumably if their remains were not consumed by cremation. You will find Jews in modern times who will possibly believe in heaven. This is said to be some of the eastern philosophy that the captive Jews picked up before they migrated back to Palestine from Babylon, but it is considered something like a superstition by traditional Jewry. This is a bunch of baloney! Jesus God/Man was a Jew lived under the Old Testament laws of Moses and he taught and preached heaven in the gospel that he came down from heaven and about Hell/Hades in Luke 16. King David was an Israelite and he KNEW about hades when he was alive and didn’t want to stay. He knew about the Messiah, who would die for him and humanity, and he would set them free from hades Read Acts 2:22-36; I Peter 4:6; Eph 4:9. You make my point perfectly -- from your use of the words "hades" and "messiah". In fact, the Hebrew word "messiah" is patently falsely used by Christians to mean "savior". Of course, you would never know that because you only listen to Christians and quacks. Truth of the matter is that a lot of the first 2x2 workers were hardly educated past grade school and believed that the Jews killed Jesus -- no wonder they never heard of these things. Just another little matter that has been ignored by 2x2's so long that they can't accept it now.
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Post by maryhig on Feb 15, 2024 2:11:03 GMT -5
I'm not speaking about literally dying, we can be dead to God if we don't have his Spirit. We can be a living soul or a dead soul depending on whether we belong to God and are born anew of the Spirit of God or not. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. I believe our soul is our being, and we can be a living or a dead soul to God in this lifetime. And our soul (our being) leaves this body when we die. Genesis 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem. This notion that the soul is a immaterial thing your body hosts and then leaves the body upon death is not their philosophy. Their philosophy is when breath enters the body it becomes a living soul, and when you stop breathing you are a dead soul. That's it, any continuance of the soul while the body is dead is not an idea they promoted, the idea come from somewhere else, it would pay to look where this idea and many others come from as its leading you up the garden path so to speak and has untold future ramifications. Well it says in the Bible that God has a soul so that can't be right. If God is Spirit and he has a soul then the soul continues after death. The soul is our inner being, and our soul can be grieved or delighted. When we say something lifts our heart, it's not our literal heart but our inner being, our soul. We are a spirit within a body and our spirit has a soul, (inner essence). And God is Spirit but he too has a soul that we can delight or grieve by what we do. In this flesh we can be a living or a dead soul, the heart of us in connection with God and living, or not in connection with him and be dead to him. And it's our choice, believe his word and obey it, have faith and live, or deny him and put our flesh and this world before him and remain dead to him and grieve his soul. And Jesus is the way the truth and the life, his way is the way to follow to be reconciled to God and in doing so, we delight his soul.
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Post by chuck on Feb 15, 2024 2:39:35 GMT -5
This notion that the soul is a immaterial thing your body hosts and then leaves the body upon death is not their philosophy. Their philosophy is when breath enters the body it becomes a living soul, and when you stop breathing you are a dead soul. That's it, any continuance of the soul while the body is dead is not an idea they promoted, the idea come from somewhere else, it would pay to look where this idea and many others come from as its leading you up the garden path so to speak and has untold future ramifications. Well it says in the Bible that God has a soul so that can't be right. If God is Spirit and he has a soul then the soul continues after death. The soul is our inner being, and our soul can be grieved or delighted. When we say something lifts our heart, it's not our literal heart but our inner being, our soul. We are a spirit within a body and our spirit has a soul, (inner essence). And God is Spirit but he too has a soul that we can delight or grieve by what we do. In this flesh we can be a living or a dead soul, the heart of us in connection with God and living, or not in connection with him and be dead to him. And it's our choice, believe his word and obey it, have faith and live, or deny him and put our flesh and this world before him and remain dead to him and grieve his soul. And Jesus is the way the truth and the life, his way is the way to follow to be reconciled to God and in doing so, we delight his soul. Mary, the only suggestion I have is understand the culture and setting these ancient stories come from, then read the stories in that light, when you do that you will see the outcomes you have reached are mostly founded in your own culture, and not the writer or conveyor of the ancient wisdom and stories. The way you have just presented the words God, spirit and soul would have left the writer/conveyor bewildered. Edit, actually a God with a soul would have been idolatry I suspect.
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Post by maryhig on Feb 15, 2024 2:53:59 GMT -5
Well it says in the Bible that God has a soul so that can't be right. If God is Spirit and he has a soul then the soul continues after death. The soul is our inner being, and our soul can be grieved or delighted. When we say something lifts our heart, it's not our literal heart but our inner being, our soul. We are a spirit within a body and our spirit has a soul, (inner essence). And God is Spirit but he too has a soul that we can delight or grieve by what we do. In this flesh we can be a living or a dead soul, the heart of us in connection with God and living, or not in connection with him and be dead to him. And it's our choice, believe his word and obey it, have faith and live, or deny him and put our flesh and this world before him and remain dead to him and grieve his soul. And Jesus is the way the truth and the life, his way is the way to follow to be reconciled to God and in doing so, we delight his soul. Mary, the only suggestion I have is understand the culture and setting these ancient stories come from, then read the stories in that light, when you do that you will see the outcomes you have reached are mostly founded in your own culture, and not the writer or conveyor of the ancient wisdom and stories. The way you have just presented the words God, spirit and soul would have left the writer/conveyor bewildered. Edit, actually a God with a soul would have been idolatry I suspect. Well that can't be right because it says that God has a soul in the old testament not just the new. So the ancient Hebrew people believed that God has a soul. How do you see that then? How do you see it that God has a soul, as shown in the old testament?
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Post by chuck on Feb 15, 2024 4:25:45 GMT -5
Mary, the only suggestion I have is understand the culture and setting these ancient stories come from, then read the stories in that light, when you do that you will see the outcomes you have reached are mostly founded in your own culture, and not the writer or conveyor of the ancient wisdom and stories. The way you have just presented the words God, spirit and soul would have left the writer/conveyor bewildered. Edit, actually a God with a soul would have been idolatry I suspect. Well that can't be right because it says that God has a soul in the old testament not just the new. So the ancient Hebrew people believed that God has a soul. How do you see that then? How do you see it that God has a soul, as shown in the old testament? These ancient people didn't write with words/sentences/paragraphs like we do, they had symbols with concepts, the translators translated it into words/sentences/paragraphs founded in their own culture and philosophy to make it readable, they did not understand the culture it came from. Not only was the philosophy different the approach was different, Greeks think form, Hebrew thinking function, Greeks apply images to the words, Hebrew's pictured how the symbols functioned. So for example when you read the word hand you picture a hand, when they saw the symbol Yod (hand/arm) they thought what does a hand do?, they picture the functions of the hand which could be numerous amounts of things, so with this in mind you can see how easily things get lost in translstion, particularly translation across cultures. So with that in mind you read God had a soul, what do you think the original intent was?, I dont expect you to work it out overnight. Mary this may sound arrogant but when someone says "the bible say's" or words to that effect, generally they do not know what it says at all but rather are just reading the translated words/sentences/paragraphs absent original intent. Lets look at the word soul. It consists of three characters, nun pey and shin. Nun The 14th letter has the value of #50. ן – נ Noon, also has a Final Form. It is spelled נ Noon, וּ Vav, ן Noon, the word נוּן Noon; to Increase, Continue. Originally the Picture of a Fish, Seed, Sperm, Sprout. It represents Son/Child, Offspring, Heir, Activity, to Propagate, Posterity, the Perpetuity of Life… Pey The 17th letter has the value of #80. ף – פ Pei/Phei has two pronunciations and a Final Form. Spelled פ Pei – ה Hei, it is the word פֶה Peh; Mouth. Originally the Picture of a Mouth, it represents to Open, Speak a Word, Command, Ask, Blow, Scatter, Beginning (of a River), Seashore, Taste, Edge… Shin The 21st letter has the value of #300. ש Shin/Sin, has two pronunciations, spelled ש Shin – ן Nun, it is the Hebrew word שֵׁן Shen; Tooth. It was originally the Picture of 2 Teeth. It represents to be Sharp, Eat, Chew Over, Return/Ruminate, Devour, Press, Crush, Remove, Destroy, Consume – like Fire. What this little comic strip is saying is ..... continually blowing through the teeth, its something breathing. You are welcome to look this up for yourself as I took the meanings of these characters from a random website. So my question is where did your idea of soul originate from?.
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 15, 2024 7:34:46 GMT -5
This is a bunch of baloney! Jesus God/Man was a Jew lived under the Old Testament laws of Moses and he taught and preached heaven in the gospel that he came down from heaven and about Hell/Hades in Luke 16. King David was an Israelite and he KNEW about hades when he was alive and didn’t want to stay. He knew about the Messiah, who would die for him and humanity, and he would set them free from hades Read Acts 2:22-36; I Peter 4:6; Eph 4:9. You make my point perfectly -- from your use of the words "hades" and "messiah". In fact, the Hebrew word "messiah" is patently falsely used by Christians to mean "savior". Of course, you would never know that because you only listen to Christians and quacks. Truth of the matter is that a lot of the first 2x2 workers were hardly educated past grade school and believed that the Jews killed Jesus -- no wonder they never heard of these things. Just another little matter that has been ignored by 2x2's so long that they can't accept it now. You are so far out to the LEFT field these days after you became an atheist, an agnostic, an unbeliever or whatever you are now. That is so sad for a man who had Wed. Bible study in his home and professing as a 2x2 for over 50 years! That is a long time believing in God and now turned away and from believing in Him. Wow! Just like Judas, one of the first 12 apostles of Jesus because he loved money so much he sold his Savior/God for 30 pieces of silver. Judas could have sat on a throne judging 12 tribes of Israel (Matthew 19) when Jesus Returns to rule as king of kings in the Universe! Now he is sitting inside inner earth/Hades (Luke 16 the Rich man) fills with REGRETS! In pains and agony just for 30 pieces of worthless coins, he lost his throne (God gave his thronethrone to Matthias Acts 1) eternal life and his name was blotted out of the book of life. Very sad indeed. By the way, Jesus was a carpenter, 4 of the apostles were fishermen, 1 tax collector, and the rest of the 12 were losers! In the eyes of men, But God the Father had chosen them to be His ambassadors on earth! He can turn earth vessels made out of pure gold! Don’t underestimate the power of the early days uneducated workers, the Almighty God gave them special revelation that he didn’t give the wise and mighty of this world standard. Jesus said along this line I thank thee, Oh Father that thou has hidden thy truth from the Wise and prudence but reveal them unto the childlike spirits.
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Post by chuck on Feb 15, 2024 16:59:32 GMT -5
Thankyou Nathan for demonstrating again the complete randomness and unreliability of your belief system.....the ratio of unethical nutjobs with "professing people" is abnormally high............
At the core of your post like many previous to this one you are suggesting Bob is a lesser human because he does not bow to your belief system........
I will now quote some relevant wisdom to this less than human approach you display.......
Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: “‘These people honor me with their lips,but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain;their teachings are merely human rules.’” Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.” Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?” He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.” “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 15, 2024 19:28:53 GMT -5
You make my point perfectly -- from your use of the words "hades" and "messiah". In fact, the Hebrew word "messiah" is patently falsely used by Christians to mean "savior". Of course, you would never know that because you only listen to Christians and quacks. Truth of the matter is that a lot of the first 2x2 workers were hardly educated past grade school and believed that the Jews killed Jesus -- no wonder they never heard of these things. Just another little matter that has been ignored by 2x2's so long that they can't accept it now. You are so far out to the LEFT field these days after you became an atheist, an agnostic, an unbeliever or whatever you are now. That is so sad for a man who had Wed. Bible study in his home and professing as a 2x2 for over 50 years! That is a long time believing in God and now turned away and from believing in Him. Wow! Just like Judas, one of the first 12 apostles of Jesus because he loved money so much he sold his Savior/God for 30 pieces of silver. Judas could have sat on a throne judging 12 tribes of Israel (Matthew 19) when Jesus Returns to rule as king of kings in the Universe! Now he is sitting inside inner earth/Hades (Luke 16 the Rich man) fills with REGRETS! In pains and agony just for 30 pieces of worthless coins, he lost his throne (God gave his thronethrone to Matthias Acts 1) eternal life and his name was blotted out of the book of life. Very sad indeed. By the way, Jesus was a carpenter, 4 of the apostles were fishermen, 1 tax collector, and the rest of the 12 were losers! In the eyes of men, But God the Father had chosen them to be His ambassadors on earth! He can turn earth vessels made out of pure gold! Don’t underestimate the power of the early days uneducated workers, the Almighty God gave them special revelation that he didn’t give the wise and mighty of this world standard. Jesus said along this line I thank thee, Oh Father that thou has hidden thy truth from the Wise and prudence but reveal them unto the childlike spirits. Is there anything else?
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Post by mod7 on Feb 15, 2024 20:19:23 GMT -5
For off-topic posts from main board.
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Post by chuck on Feb 15, 2024 20:46:56 GMT -5
For off-topic posts from main board. I get its off topic, no argument here. What is it with the title of the threads....A basic understanding of the culture that is at the centre of the discussion is hardly "Chuck's world". Are people really that unaware of the culture that they actually think it has to be labelled, Chuck's version of atheism or Chuck's world.....
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 15, 2024 21:17:59 GMT -5
You are so far out to the LEFT field these days after you became an atheist, an agnostic, an unbeliever or whatever you are now. That is so sad for a man who had Wed. Bible study in his home and professing as a 2x2 for over 50 years! That is a long time believing in God and now turned away and from believing in Him. Wow! Just like Judas, one of the first 12 apostles of Jesus because he loved money so much he sold his Savior/God for 30 pieces of silver. Judas could have sat on a throne judging 12 tribes of Israel (Matthew 19) when Jesus Returns to rule as king of kings in the Universe! Now he is sitting inside inner earth/Hades (Luke 16 the Rich man) fills with REGRETS! In pains and agony just for 30 pieces of worthless coins, he lost his throne (God gave his thronethrone to Matthias Acts 1) eternal life and his name was blotted out of the book of life. Very sad indeed. By the way, Jesus was a carpenter, 4 of the apostles were fishermen, 1 tax collector, and the rest of the 12 were losers! In the eyes of men, But God the Father had chosen them to be His ambassadors on earth! He can turn earth vessels made out of pure gold! Don’t underestimate the power of the early days uneducated workers, the Almighty God gave them special revelation that he didn’t give the wise and mighty of this world standard. Jesus said along this line I thank thee, Oh Father that thou has hidden thy truth from the Wise and prudence but reveal them unto the childlike spirits. Is there anything else? That is enough for now .
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tulip2
Junior Member
Posts: 176
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Post by tulip2 on Feb 15, 2024 21:22:17 GMT -5
Maybe it's you for whom the essence of the Christian faith is completely alien?
I assume you were once professing, back then did you speak like you do on TMB in meetings? And if so, what reactions did you get?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2024 22:22:02 GMT -5
I'm not speaking about literally dying, we can be dead to God if we don't have his Spirit. We can be a living soul or a dead soul depending on whether we belong to God and are born anew of the Spirit of God or not. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. I believe our soul is our being, and we can be a living or a dead soul to God in this lifetime. And our soul (our being) leaves this body when we die. Genesis 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem. This notion that the soul is a immaterial thing your body hosts and then leaves the body upon death is not their philosophy. Their philosophy is when breath enters the body it becomes a living soul, and when you stop breathing you are a dead soul. That's it, any continuance of the soul while the body is dead is not an idea they promoted, the idea come from somewhere else, it would pay to look where this idea and many others come from as its leading you up the garden path so to speak and has untold future ramifications. And it resonated with the Greeks and Romans, because they largely believed very similar. Many Greek atomists for example, followed the philosophy of Democritus who believed the soul was actually a material thing, comprised of fire atoms. The soul left when the body died, as evidenced by the body becoming cold. A person replenished these "soul atoms" by inhaling the pneuma (breath of the cosmos). Thus, if a person stopped breathing, they couldn't replenish their soul atoms and those they had escaped. The idea of an immaterial soul, which we assume in any conversation, wasn't universally accepted in Bible times.
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Post by chuck on Feb 15, 2024 23:06:03 GMT -5
Maybe it's you for whom the essence of the Christian faith is completely alien? I assume you were once professing, back then did you speak like you do on TMB in meetings? And if so, what reactions did you get? What is the essence of Christian faith?. What does "proffessing" have to do with understanding the culture underpinning the scriptures?. The reaction I got, well lets just say if it was 600 years ago I would have been burned at the stake......or 2000 yrs ago, they would have conspired with the relevant authorities and got me hung on a cross.....you dont dare go against the authority or it's phsychophants...... indwelling hatred does not change over time.........
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Post by maryhig on Feb 16, 2024 4:49:25 GMT -5
Well that can't be right because it says that God has a soul in the old testament not just the new. So the ancient Hebrew people believed that God has a soul. How do you see that then? How do you see it that God has a soul, as shown in the old testament? These ancient people didn't write with words/sentences/paragraphs like we do, they had symbols with concepts, the translators translated it into words/sentences/paragraphs founded in their own culture and philosophy to make it readable, they did not understand the culture it came from. Not only was the philosophy different the approach was different, Greeks think form, Hebrew thinking function, Greeks apply images to the words, Hebrew's pictured how the symbols functioned. So for example when you read the word hand you picture a hand, when they saw the symbol Yod (hand/arm) they thought what does a hand do?, they picture the functions of the hand which could be numerous amounts of things, so with this in mind you can see how easily things get lost in translstion, particularly translation across cultures. So with that in mind you read God had a soul, what do you think the original intent was?, I dont expect you to work it out overnight. Mary this may sound arrogant but when someone says "the bible say's" or words to that effect, generally they do not know what it says at all but rather are just reading the translated words/sentences/paragraphs absent original intent. Lets look at the word soul. It consists of three characters, nun pey and shin. Nun The 14th letter has the value of #50. ן – נ Noon, also has a Final Form. It is spelled נ Noon, וּ Vav, ן Noon, the word נוּן Noon; to Increase, Continue. Originally the Picture of a Fish, Seed, Sperm, Sprout. It represents Son/Child, Offspring, Heir, Activity, to Propagate, Posterity, the Perpetuity of Life… Pey The 17th letter has the value of #80. ף – פ Pei/Phei has two pronunciations and a Final Form. Spelled פ Pei – ה Hei, it is the word פֶה Peh; Mouth. Originally the Picture of a Mouth, it represents to Open, Speak a Word, Command, Ask, Blow, Scatter, Beginning (of a River), Seashore, Taste, Edge… Shin The 21st letter has the value of #300. ש Shin/Sin, has two pronunciations, spelled ש Shin – ן Nun, it is the Hebrew word שֵׁן Shen; Tooth. It was originally the Picture of 2 Teeth. It represents to be Sharp, Eat, Chew Over, Return/Ruminate, Devour, Press, Crush, Remove, Destroy, Consume – like Fire. What this little comic strip is saying is ..... continually blowing through the teeth, its something breathing. You are welcome to look this up for yourself as I took the meanings of these characters from a random website. So my question is where did your idea of soul originate from?. Oh I love that! That's a living soul! Number 1 symbol=life, number 2=to speak, number 3=God's consuming fire In other words, a living soul who has the power to speak the word of God and can overcome with the consuming fire of God.... Love it! I've looked at the different symbols in the past they are so interesting and from what I've seen they coincide with how I believe. I'm sure I've written things about various symbols in the past on here somewhere (unless it was another site), although I've forgotten a lot about them now. Thanks for taking the time to write that and reminding me about them it's so interesting we should have a thread about it! 😊👍
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Post by maryhig on Feb 16, 2024 4:58:31 GMT -5
This idea "go to heaven" also seems to have come from elsewhere?. I asked a practicing Jew if Jews believed in a heaven. The reply was that it was an irrelevant question. The Jews were God's chosen people, but when they (or people in general) die, they are just dead -- period. The one exception being the super faithfully Law abiding Jews may rise when some finally judgement comes for the whole earth -- presumably if their remains were not consumed by cremation. You will find Jews in modern times who will possibly believe in heaven. This is said to be some of the eastern philosophy that the captive Jews picked up before they migrated back to Palestine from Babylon, but it is considered something like a superstition by traditional Jewry. So do the Jews just believe that once you die that's it? Because they didn't believe like that in the old testament as they believed in life after death. And the Jews believe in the old testament? What do they believe happens after death, just that you die and that's it? Thank you.
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nathan2
Royal Member
Nathan again
50%
Posts: 3,362
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Post by nathan2 on Feb 16, 2024 13:02:48 GMT -5
Maybe it's you for whom the essence of the Christian faith is completely alien? I assume you were once professing, back then did you speak like you do on TMB in meetings? And if so, what reactions did you get? It went over their heads! So, I speak about things they feel comfortable with in meetings. I tell some in private and they listen. I gave them my site to read at their own leisure. ROatheist started my own message board where I post the information from ABC to XYZ for all to see it’s science facts not science fiction.
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