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Post by fixit on Jul 27, 2024 1:14:53 GMT -5
I said this at the beginning when the genocide was becoming a very unpopular issue worldwide. You've lost me... How does killing 2% of the population that attacks you constitute a genocide? Especially when the 2% figure is claimed by the government that initiated the attack. When Germany started a war, 10% of their population died. Was that genocide? |
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 27, 2024 1:40:08 GMT -5
I said this at the beginning when the genocide was becoming a very unpopular issue worldwide. You've lost me... How does killing 2% of the population that attacks you constitute a genocide? Especially when the 2% figure is claimed by the government that initiated the attack. When Germany started a war, 10% of their population died. Was that genocide? Genocide is not dependent on what percentage of a population is killed -- it refers to "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group." In Gaza there has been an inordinately large number of civilian deaths and evidence of life threatening circumstances to qualify it as an attempted genocide. The critical part of applying the term to the situation is to determine that the excess was a deliberate effort to destroy the Gazan community. I personally believe enough officials in the Israeli government have made plenty enough statements about what they want to do with Gaza to arouse suspicions of genocide. The onus, of course, is on some authority it to have it proven in a court of law. The request by Israeli officials to have the Gazans sent as refugees to other countries smacks loudly akin to Hitler's deportation of the Jews "to Poland". The Germans, of course, were happy with the "deportation" plan. Who ever asks what happens to their trash when it is removed? They're not responsible for that. |
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Post by fixit on Jul 27, 2024 2:28:08 GMT -5
If Israel loved the Palestinians, would the Palestinians love Israel back? It's not that simple because huge numbers of Palestinians want to wipe Israel off the map. There are celebrations in the streets when Israelis are killed. I wonder what percentage of the Israeli population would be killed if Gazans had the ability to do so? www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/ |
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Post by snow on Jul 27, 2024 13:10:52 GMT -5
Now that there are 3 terrorist groups attacking Israel that are backed by Iran, Israel needs to think long and hard just how many of the surrounding countries they want to get involved with. I said this at the beginning when the genocide was becoming a very unpopular issue worldwide. Does Israel think they are invincible? This is not a could situation for them. There is no point in them having nucs because if they use them it will annihilate them too. Not much distance between countries there. It's like Israel has a death wish. They have just taken and taken and continue to take land that was not awarded them and then they wonder why everyone surrounding them is upset. I feel so bad for the Israeli people who have to endure under their current government. Many are speaking out against their government and the situation that government has gotten them into. The Jews have never finished the job, From King Saul to Joshua, they failed to destroy their enemies and its always come back to haunt them. We are coming up on a year and they're still screwing around with a 24 mile strip of land. If they surrender to Hamas now, their future will be bleak and their enemies emboldened. The world is already pissed, so they may as well finish and win the war, prolonging it is just creating agony. There will never be a 2 state solution, it hasn't worked for decades and its prophecy. Israel will never be defeated, but they will be brought to the brink of destruction, that's when Christ steps into the picture and clobbers all their enemies.
Waiting for Christ to step in is going to be their downfall. It's incredibly sad that anyone thinks that's what will happen. The US may protect them but they are not Christ. |
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Post by Dan on Jul 27, 2024 13:17:45 GMT -5
I said this at the beginning when the genocide was becoming a very unpopular issue worldwide. You've lost me... How does killing 2% of the population that attacks you constitute a genocide? Especially when the 2% figure is claimed by the government that initiated the attack. When Germany started a war, 10% of their population died. Was that genocide?
It's a liberal tactic to radically relabel something when it supports their radical ideology. Taking Israel's right to defend themselves and labeling them 'genocidal maniacs' is how they manipulate and garner support for their agenda, which is to kill all the Jews from the 'River to the Sea'. They protest for genocide while simultaneously accusing Israel of it.
Does a country allow aid into a population if their intent is genocide? Israel has the capability of completely annihilating Gaza, but they've painstakingly tried to spare civilians at a great cost to themselves. Imo, they've been far too patient and have needlessly prolonged the war.
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Post by snow on Jul 27, 2024 13:19:01 GMT -5
I said this at the beginning when the genocide was becoming a very unpopular issue worldwide. You've lost me... How does killing 2% of the population that attacks you constitute a genocide? Especially when the 2% figure is claimed by the government that initiated the attack. When Germany started a war, 10% of their population died. Was that genocide? They just haven't killed a large number of people that are civilians and many children, they have made Gaza a destroyed area where the people haven't got food or the means to grow more, they have destroyed so much infrastructure that was their homes, they have destroyed hospitals and people don't have access to clean water or medicines. Disease and famine are going to impact even more of them. Genocide is the attack on a people at any cost, not necessarily numbers. What Germany did does not make it okay for the Israelis to do it too. It was wrong what happened to them in Germany and it's wrong what they are now doing in Gaza. I would think they would know that since it happened to them once. I do believe they have the right to protect themselves, but it's not just defense they are doing it's a very aggressive offense and it's killing a lot of civilians of which many are children. The world is right when they say that's not an acceptable way of dealing with this. I really feel sorry for Israelis because imo their government is just making it worse for them, creating more aggressive enemies which is not a good thing. |
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Post by snow on Jul 27, 2024 13:22:01 GMT -5
You've lost me... How does killing 2% of the population that attacks you constitute a genocide? Especially when the 2% figure is claimed by the government that initiated the attack. When Germany started a war, 10% of their population died. Was that genocide? It's a liberal tactic to radically relabel something when it supports their radical ideology. Taking Israel's right to defend themselves and labeling them 'genocidal maniacs' is how they manipulate and garner support for their agenda, which is to kill all the Jews from the 'River to the Sea'. They protest for genocide while simultaneously accusing Israel of it.
Does a country allow aid into a population if their intent is genocide? Israel has the capability of completely annihilating Gaza, but they've painstakingly tried to spare civilians at a great cost to themselves. Imo, they've been far too patient and have needlessly prolonged the war.
The only reason why you think it's okay what Israel is doing is because you are a Christian that thinks the area needs to exist in order for your Christ to return. Would you be in favor of Iran or Iraq doing the same thing? Did you care one iota about the Kurds? |
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Post by Dan on Jul 27, 2024 15:40:32 GMT -5
It's a liberal tactic to radically relabel something when it supports their radical ideology. Taking Israel's right to defend themselves and labeling them 'genocidal maniacs' is how they manipulate and garner support for their agenda, which is to kill all the Jews from the 'River to the Sea'. They protest for genocide while simultaneously accusing Israel of it.
Does a country allow aid into a population if their intent is genocide? Israel has the capability of completely annihilating Gaza, but they've painstakingly tried to spare civilians at a great cost to themselves. Imo, they've been far too patient and have needlessly prolonged the war.
The only reason why you think it's okay what Israel is doing is because you are a Christian that thinks the area needs to exist in order for your Christ to return. Would you be in favor of Iran or Iraq doing the same thing? Did you care one iota about the Kurds?
My point was that the Afghanistan war lasted 13 years and Vietnam lasted nearly 20 years. Israel is failing, their reluctance to fight and their continued delays to finish the war will actually cost more lives. I think its okay because the terrorist who butchered 1200 innocent Israelis are still living next door and are still a threat, not to mention holding 120 hostages (8 Americans). I'm in favor of any nation that fights to protect themselves against terrorist. And No, your comparing apples to oranges, Iran sponsors terrorism, I'd never support a nation that uses terror to kill innocent people, Christian or non-Christian.
I don't need to believe the area needs to exist to confirm my faith, the fact that the nation of Israel was re-established and are surrounded by enemies is already prophetic confirmation of my faith. If part 1 and 2 came to fruition, the odds of part 3 materializing seems inevitable.
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Post by fixit on Jul 27, 2024 16:20:13 GMT -5
You've lost me... How does killing 2% of the population that attacks you constitute a genocide? Especially when the 2% figure is claimed by the government that initiated the attack. When Germany started a war, 10% of their population died. Was that genocide? They just haven't killed a large number of people that are civilians and many children, they have made Gaza a destroyed area where the people haven't got food or the means to grow more, they have destroyed so much infrastructure that was their homes, they have destroyed hospitals and people don't have access to clean water or medicines. Disease and famine are going to impact even more of them. Genocide is the attack on a people at any cost, not necessarily numbers. What Germany did does not make it okay for the Israelis to do it too. It was wrong what happened to them in Germany and it's wrong what they are now doing in Gaza. I would think they would know that since it happened to them once. I do believe they have the right to protect themselves, but it's not just defense they are doing it's a very aggressive offense and it's killing a lot of civilians of which many are children. The world is right when they say that's not an acceptable way of dealing with this. I really feel sorry for Israelis because imo their government is just making it worse for them, creating more aggressive enemies which is not a good thing. What other way was there to deal with this existential threat to Israel? How could 500 kms of terror tunnels be destroyed without damage to infrastucture and homes? I saw footage of a tunnel entrance through a child's bedroom. Tunnels were linked to hospitals, schools, mosques etc and Hamas knew that the world would pile on to Israel when it came to a war. The world has been funding the radicalisation of Palestinians from pre-school up, so the world should not be surprised that people are getting killed. Does anyone care about the hundreds of IDF soldiers being killed defending their homeland? |
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Post by snow on Jul 27, 2024 16:47:55 GMT -5
They just haven't killed a large number of people that are civilians and many children, they have made Gaza a destroyed area where the people haven't got food or the means to grow more, they have destroyed so much infrastructure that was their homes, they have destroyed hospitals and people don't have access to clean water or medicines. Disease and famine are going to impact even more of them. Genocide is the attack on a people at any cost, not necessarily numbers. What Germany did does not make it okay for the Israelis to do it too. It was wrong what happened to them in Germany and it's wrong what they are now doing in Gaza. I would think they would know that since it happened to them once. I do believe they have the right to protect themselves, but it's not just defense they are doing it's a very aggressive offense and it's killing a lot of civilians of which many are children. The world is right when they say that's not an acceptable way of dealing with this. I really feel sorry for Israelis because imo their government is just making it worse for them, creating more aggressive enemies which is not a good thing. What other way was there to deal with this existential threat to Israel? How could 500 kms of terror tunnels be destroyed without damage to infrastucture and homes? I saw footage of a tunnel entrance through a child's bedroom. Tunnels were linked to hospitals, schools, mosques etc and Hamas knew that the world would pile on to Israel when it came to a war. The world has been funding the radicalisation of Palestinians from pre-school up, so the world should not be surprised that people are getting killed. Does anyone care about the hundreds of IDF soldiers being killed defending their homeland? Just to be clear I care about all loss of life on both sides. I know there is collateral damage in any war. But there has been enough dead and more to come for the Palestinians because they have been damaged to the point that it will take years to build back and be able to feed themselves again. The conditions are going to radically impact their ability to have housing, food etc. We don't see that same scenario for Israel. It's a no win situation I believe, because Israel will never get rid of the terrorist groups. Yemen terrorist group Houthis has joined Lebanon's Hezbollah and Gaza's Hamas in the fight. All are backed by Iran. How do they ever win this without totally annihilating all those countries? It's not possible imo. So some sort of negotiation needs to happen and I'm with you in that the likelihood of that happening is pretty much nil. So, the killing will continue on as it has for decades. No matter how hard Israel fights back it will never be enough and it will just alienate even more people/countries. It's so disheartening  |
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Post by fixit on Jul 27, 2024 19:22:46 GMT -5
What other way was there to deal with this existential threat to Israel? How could 500 kms of terror tunnels be destroyed without damage to infrastucture and homes? I saw footage of a tunnel entrance through a child's bedroom. Tunnels were linked to hospitals, schools, mosques etc and Hamas knew that the world would pile on to Israel when it came to a war. The world has been funding the radicalisation of Palestinians from pre-school up, so the world should not be surprised that people are getting killed. Does anyone care about the hundreds of IDF soldiers being killed defending their homeland? Just to be clear I care about all loss of life on both sides. I know there is collateral damage in any war. But there has been enough dead and more to come for the Palestinians because they have been damaged to the point that it will take years to build back and be able to feed themselves again. The conditions are going to radically impact their ability to have housing, food etc. We don't see that same scenario for Israel. It's a no win situation I believe, because Israel will never get rid of the terrorist groups. Yemen terrorist group Houthis has joined Lebanon's Hezbollah and Gaza's Hamas in the fight. All are backed by Iran. How do they ever win this without totally annihilating all those countries? It's not possible imo. So some sort of negotiation needs to happen and I'm with you in that the likelihood of that happening is pretty much nil. So, the killing will continue on as it has for decades. No matter how hard Israel fights back it will never be enough and it will just alienate even more people/countries. It's so disheartening I care about all loss of life as well but it's insanity to do what you've always done and expect a different result. A lot has been done to reduce the threat from ISIS and Al Quaeda. Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and the mullahs running Iran will also have to be dealt with. The UN has got to stop radicalising Palestinian kids in schools funded by taxpayers from the free world. Neither should we be funding Palestinian refugee camps for more that 70 years. They will never be accepted as Israeli citizens just as the Greeks expelled from Turkey will never go back and the Turks expelled from Greece will never go back. And the Jews expelled from Muslim countries will never go back. |
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Post by Dan on Jul 29, 2024 12:07:13 GMT -5
Hezbollah just killed 12 Israeli children in the Golan Heights last Saturday... All the ceasefire talks just emboldened their enemies... Netanyahu needs to stop trying to appease the U.S. liberals and get his butt home and fight.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 30, 2024 23:39:11 GMT -5
Hezbollah just killed 12 Israeli children in the Golan Heights last Saturday... All the ceasefire talks just emboldened their enemies... Netanyahu needs to stop trying to appease the U.S. liberals and get his butt home and fight. It was undoubtedly a mistake - they didn't kill any Jews. It was a Syrian Druze community that lived in the Golan Heights. And today the top ranking guy of Hezbollah Hamas was killed in Iran. |
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Post by xna on Aug 15, 2024 10:07:43 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Aug 15, 2024 18:58:19 GMT -5
It's a bad idea to start a war...especially against those who are more powerful. You forgot to mention those killed by Hamas terrorists... They killed Gaza citizens who they saw as disloyal to them. They killed Gaza citizens with misfired rockets. They killed young people at a music festival. They killed Israeli civilians with rockets. They raped and murdered Israeli civilians and burned alive a father tied to his child. |
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Post by xna on Aug 15, 2024 20:07:07 GMT -5
It's a bad idea to start a war...especially against those who are more powerful.
You forgot to mention those killed by Hamas terrorists...
They killed Gaza citizens who they saw as disloyal to them.
They killed Gaza citizens with misfired rockets.
They killed young people at a music festival.
They killed Israeli civilians with rockets.
They raped and murdered Israeli civilians and burned alive a father tied to his child. I didn't find information about your categories in that CNN article. It would be informative to know the numbers in your categories too. If you have that data please post the numbers and your source. Here some more of what I found --------------------------------------------- apnews.com/article/gaza-death-toll-hamas-war-israel-40000-32a79e03c8eb62669412dab23d03219e1,200 Hamas-led militants attacked southern Israel 329 Israeli soldiers killed in Gaza ------------------------------------------------- How do you value a human life? Is an Israeli life more valuable than a Palestinians life? The death ratio is now 40,000 / 1,500 Not so long ago in the USA a white slave owners life was more valuable than any slave. The bible values human life this way. Leviticus 27:1-7: This passage discusses the value of people who are dedicated to the Lord, which can include slaves. The valuation is based on age and gender:
For a male between the ages of 20 and 60, the value is set at 50 shekels of silver.
For a female in the same age range, the value is set at 30 shekels of silver.
For a male between the ages of 5 and 20, the value is set at 20 shekels.
For a female in that age range, the value is set at 10 shekels.
For a male over 60, the value is set at 15 shekels, and for a female, it is set at 10 shekels. |
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Post by Dan on Aug 15, 2024 21:31:38 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Aug 16, 2024 3:55:23 GMT -5
How do you value a human life? Is an Israeli life more valuable than a Palestinians life? The death ratio is now 40,000 / 1,500 The problem is mostly that the government of Gaza puts an extremely low value on human life. Their military command centres are in hospitals and schools. They use ambulances as military vehicles. They murder anyone who they suspect of collaborating with the enemy or questioning their atrocities. |
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Post by xna on Aug 16, 2024 14:40:22 GMT -5
How do you value a human life? Is an Israeli life more valuable than a Palestinians life? The death ratio is now 40,000 / 1,500
Their military command centres are in hospitals and schools. They use ambulances as military vehicles. They murder anyone who they suspect of collaborating with the enemy or questioning their atrocities.- I find poor countries place less value on human life vs. rich countries. Gaza is much poorer than Israel. Desperate people do desperate things. In Gaza they don't have much too loose. If Gaza was as rich as Israel I doubt they would be so quick to go to war. Poor people fight - rich people talk and compromise. - The Abrahamic religions are based on tribalism. The "others" are the enemy. As long as they hold to their religion there will be wars. The Abrahamic religions see the world as black and white, good and evil. This way of thinking leaves little room for compromise or acceptance of differences. You don't read about wars in some other religions like Jainism, which teaches that the path to enlightenment is through nonviolence and reducing harm to living things (including plants and animals) as much as possible. - Pain an suffering are expected and part of the norm in the Abrahamic religions. Suffering & martyrdom - the suffering of death on account of adherence to a cause and especially to one's religious faith is viewed as a virtue ie. (martyrdom. the suffering of death on account of adherence to a cause and especially to one's religious faith.) - The Abrahamic religions traditionally view human life as a commodity, which can be bought and sold, assessing more or less value based on the person. |
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Post by fixit on Aug 16, 2024 15:50:17 GMT -5
- I find poor countries place less value on human life vs. rich countries. Gaza is much poorer than Israel. Desperate people do desperate things. In Gaza they don't have much too loose. If Gaza was as rich as Israel I doubt they would be so quick to go to war. Poor people fight - rich people talk and compromise. Gaza's poverty is of their own making. Gaza has been among the world's top recipients of aid per capita and their government chose to invest in futile rockets and tunnels. After 1967 there were open borders between Israel proper and the conquered territories, but after a couple of decades Israel was forced to put up walls to prevent terrorism - bombings of restaurants, buses etc. The way to prosperity for the Arabs is to recognise the state of Israel and stop trying to destroy it. |
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Post by xna on Aug 16, 2024 16:56:50 GMT -5
- I find poor countries place less value on human life vs. rich countries. Gaza is much poorer than Israel. Desperate people do desperate things. In Gaza they don't have much too loose. If Gaza was as rich as Israel I doubt they would be so quick to go to war. Poor people fight - rich people talk and compromise.
Gaza has been among the world's top recipients of aid per capital and their government chose to invest in futile rockets and tunnels.
After 1967 there were open borders between Israel proper and the conquered territories, but after a couple of decades Israel was forced to put up walls to prevent terrorism - bombings of restaurants, buses etc.
The way to prosperity for the Arabs is to recognise the state of Israel and stop trying to destroy it.Israel gets more government foreign aid per capita than the Palestinians. In addition Israel also gets a lot more private foreign assistance from the religious Christians and Jews outside of Israel. Israel has done a good job of improving the GDP per capita in the last few decades. Today household income in Israel is about 70% of the USA average. However many costs are lower in Israel than the USA especially food & healthcare. Much of the prosperity of Israel has come from the secular sector. If Israel was all utra orthodox then it would be a much more backward country. Take away the influence of religion and things improve for both sides. www.foreignassistance.gov/ |
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Post by fixit on Aug 16, 2024 17:20:26 GMT -5
Gaza's poverty is of their own making.
Gaza has been among the world's top recipients of aid per capital and their government chose to invest in futile rockets and tunnels.
After 1967 there were open borders between Israel proper and the conquered territories, but after a couple of decades Israel was forced to put up walls to prevent terrorism - bombings of restaurants, buses etc.
The way to prosperity for the Arabs is to recognise the state of Israel and stop trying to destroy it. Israel gets more government foreign aid per capita than the Palestinians. In addition Israel also gets a lot more private foreign assistance from the religious Christians and Jews outside of Israel. Israel has done a good job of improving the GDP per capita in the last few decades. Today household income in Israel is about 70% of the USA average. However many costs are lower in Israel than the USA especially food & healthcare. Much of the prosperity of Israel has come from the secular sector. If Israel was all utra orthodox then it would be a much more backward country. Take away the influence of religion and things improve for both sides. www.foreignassistance.gov/Yes, Israel needs to deal with the ultra orthodox freeloaders. I hate how our hard-earned taxpayer contributions end up funding terrorism: www.newsweek.com/congress-needs-review-un-agencys-terror-finance-problem-opinion-1587099 |
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Post by xna on Aug 16, 2024 17:39:14 GMT -5
Today I was in a waiting room getting a vehicle fixed. There was one other person waiting, a 79 year old male. I noticed he was watching Youtube but the language was in Hebrew. We spent about two hours talking about Israel while we waited for our vehicles to get fixed. He left Israel in 1970 for Canada then moved to the USA. He still has family in Tel Aviv. He is a secular Jew and does not believe in god. The interesting part was that it was clear he hated all Arabs and all Germans. It wasn't what they did to him but the culture he inherited from the religious Jews. I doubt that he knows many Arabs personally. Yet his prejudices are strong, and were probably passed on to his kids. Religion people tend to not makes friends or get to know others outside of their religion. I also know some Arabs in the USA, who while they don't know hardly any Jews, they have similar prejudices toward all Jews. Their xenophobia is also carried forward from generation to generation. Since I'm not religious I get along with both Arabs and Jews. If they could only set aside the religious cultural indoctrination they could be friends, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 23, 2024 18:01:55 GMT -5
First case of polio in 25 years discovered now in Gaza.
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Post by ipsedixit3 on Aug 26, 2024 23:36:18 GMT -5
First case of polio in 25 years discovered now in Gaza. That is significant. Polio is an enterovirus which is associated with poor sanitation. It was traditionally very common, and was more or less harmless since mothers passed partial humoral immunity to their children. When we went through the "sanitation revolution" we unintentionally started to create cases where mothers never we exposed, and therefore couldn't pass acquired protection to their children. Without maternal contribution, a certain percentage of poliovirus infection becomes neurological. The result was a common stomach virus presenting like an novel neurological virus. The Salk and later Sabin vaccines worked well. The emergence in Gaza of clinically significant polio indicates eroding health infrastructure and prolonged unsanitary conditions. It's a canary in a coal mine of sorts. The war has to stop. |
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Post by ipsedixit3 on Aug 29, 2024 21:49:57 GMT -5
Israel has agreed to "humanitarian pauses" to vaccinate Gazans against polio.
Can't have IDF soldiers getting sick with it as they slaughter Palestinians.
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Post by xna on Aug 30, 2024 5:02:21 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Aug 30, 2024 15:50:50 GMT -5
In the history of the world, has a government ever declared war on it's more powerful neighbour and lost less than 2% of its population as a result?
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