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Post by passingby on Sept 12, 2023 15:20:09 GMT -5
Lol I don't know, but many (including me) in spite of it all, found an inspiring message. They (the workers) often say, 'I'm a poor inadequate messenger, God has to do the speaking to your heart.' He who hath an ear let him hear, etc. Some hear inspiration some don't. God separating the sheep from the goats I guess is what they'd say. I think it was in this thread that I read Dan write that the OT is pretty depressing, (very true) but never-the-less you find preachers everywhere (and 2x2's too) finding or creating inspiring messages out of it anyway. Although I don't believe in the biblical (or any actual) God, inspired people are in general, my kind of people. Maybe because in spite of what can be depressing reality, I'm (luckily I think) a positive person. I enjoy, look for, and naturally gravitate to such people, and happily so.
People are different and inspired by different things. There aren't many Fire & Brimstone sermons anymore because they don't draw an audience. The crowds prefer Prosperity type sermons, they want to hear about the blessings Christians get, etc.
I personally want the Truth in all of its caveats, not a whitewashed unrealistic version of how wonderful a Christian life is. Because there's nothing easy about it, its a battle from start to finish, and its that down to earth realization that inspires me.
Reply I remember our elder's wife's testimony, from many years ago now, who professed in one of those dimly lit, crowded, stuffy, convention Saturday nights, when she'd been scared out her bejeebees by the gospel message of those horses of the apocalypses. This was back in the day when some of those big work horses were still around on the farm. 'But, she said, (and I probably can't describe it how it hit me....) 'you know that slowly turned into an understanding of love' Wow! Somehow through it all, she got it. Her husband latter said, 'yeah, he remembered that particular worker. he was big on that kind of thing, he didn't need to.'
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Post by snow on Sept 13, 2023 12:13:08 GMT -5
I'm glad you were inspired at meetings. I haven't been to one since 1973 so when I finally listened to a convention again, it really stood out how many were almost sobbing giving their testimonies or prayers. Even some of the young sister workers looked like they were going to break down and cry at any moment. The number of times I heard people say they were nothing, that they just wanted to do better with a quiver in their voices, really upset me. I now understand why I was so sure I was worth nothing when I was a teen. Until I left home and quit going to meetings I never thought I was worth anything much. I realized that I had worth and was a pretty decent person after about a decade of not going. It's been a journey and I now understand why. Thanks snow, I haven't been away for that long , but it's been a while. Maybe because I grew up with the people who's testimonies I was imersed in, I understood them as the people and the lives from whence they came. There were a few disconnects, person/testimony, but not many. Who knows what they thought of mine. I think as I got older, with more life and experience I understood better, understanding more "between the lines" so to speak. None of us were perfect, we all had our troubles, all of us were on a journey. Anyway, things might sound different today? I don't know. I'd actually like to go to convention, but I don't want to make anyone suspicious or uncomfortable that I might be one of those ex's who's attitudes you can read about for days here. Actually snow, feeling like you weren't worth much is not that uncommon. I am continually surprised by how many high achieving public people say they grew up feeling the same way, including me (well not public or high achieving, but eventually okay). Takes us all a long time to sort things out I think. No sense blaming others because we're human. I like your views on things. I think blaming a system is pointless. You can't go back and change it and dwelling on it doesn't make anything better. My attitude was to take the good things and expand on them. I ended up in a career that required me to do a lot of public speaking and I found it relatively easy. I think that was because from the age of 8 I gave my testimony at conventions in front of a lot of people and mostly adults. We are all human and my parents were the product of the church every bit as much as I was. They did what they thought was best for my salvation based on what they were taught by their parents. So I pretty much ignored their comments that were meant to guilt me back into the 'fold'. I would just say 'if it works for you, good. But it doesn't work for me' and leave it at that. I loved them but I had to be me.
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Post by margaret on Sept 18, 2023 21:54:57 GMT -5
You just shot yourself in the foot Einstein, you've made so if it's not the original language it can never be understood in another, you are as clueless as they come. Like I've said before the Hebrew mindset cult will rot your brain... Wally, If you know the concepts underlying words in a given culture, once translated you can still apply the concepts, what you are not understanding is the concepts you are applying to words in scripture are not original Hebrew concepts but rather greek ones regardless of the language. It helps to get your head around the how the concepts were conveyed in the Hebrew, culture, the hieroglyphics were like small comic strips, each symbol had its own concept. Unless you can grasp these you missapply what words mean. What you and Dan are doing is applying western concepts to the words with no thought to the original. Couple this together with the art of storytelling to pass on wisdom and the Hebrews way of thinking about the function of language not the form you will begin to see the widsom within the words of scripture regardless of the language it is written in. Chuck, you have the patience of Job.
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