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Post by bfvernon on Jul 22, 2023 18:44:03 GMT -5
Dear International Studies
You provide this evidence for your premise that Ross Bowden has no integrity: “He came across as smooth and plausible “ in the 60 minutes show.
That statement is not “evidence”. It could be used for either side of the argument.
Would you like to give the matter further thought? Perhaps do some critical thinking?
Blessings Barbara
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on Jul 22, 2023 21:13:30 GMT -5
Sending ❤️ your way. I can't imagine the terrible heartache loosing a child would bring. Well I was in hospital . Got out till Monday and today I received a text from my youngest , she needed money & has Covid-19 like the daughter I lost 😡 I have not spoken to her since Feb 27th . I am chilled to the bone 🦴 Hope you're doing okay since getting out of the hospital, Patricia! Hang in there. I pray for justice! I have hope there will be. Don't give up. Here's a great song when you feel all hope is almost lost. "Love Will Find You Again." by Claire Lynch www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVsolDU86jA
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 22, 2023 22:39:37 GMT -5
You seem to have missed my post themaninthemirror. Can we confirm your views are based on hearsay? Hearsay that Ross is an ex that is very vocal in his dislike for the teachings of the group? It’s like appointing a ex Muslim to support devout Muslims in revealing abuse. Think a bit deeper than your position Rosyln. I’m sure you know that abuse is complicated. I know a case where 13 people were abused and only one person was brave enough to come forward - i don’t think you understand. themaninthemirror, you still haven't answered my question, why is it such an issue to you if someone is an "ex" ? The Workers and Friends have had years to get this sorted, why haven't they ? Why do you think the Sixty Minutes Doco was done ? Could it have been that people in Australia were over things being covered up ? Workers moved from one state to the next, people talking to Workers and being shut down ? You are basing your opinion of Ross on hearsay. You have no idea what has gone on behind the scenes by Ross and many other people ( a lot who are "exs) Ross stepped up and said what a lot of people were thinking. As for the abuse I am well aware of how devastating it is and the amount that has been covered up. Surely you have to understand a lot of the friends are going to to question, when a group of people promote themselves as "the only way" why has thing happened ?
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 22, 2023 22:44:17 GMT -5
Typical response I see internationalstudies ! Of course you would say that because he didn't take your BS! How bad does it look Ross as an "Ex" has stepped up and done what you as a Worker haven't ! and never would........like most of the reactions they are only sorry because they got caught......they didn't care beforehand otherwise Ross wouldn't be in that role..... Rotten to the core...feel sorry for any innocents caught up in it regardless of their convictions. Exactly chuck ! They have had years to sort this out ! But instead deny, deny, deny....! Then have to hide to criticize Ross for doing what they should have done !
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Post by godsgrace on Jul 23, 2023 1:50:31 GMT -5
chuck and godsgrace, I'm unmoved by your posts (expressions of your bias). Your cheerleading for your flawed candidate Ross Bowden. I see right through it. I'm not fooled or swayed by it. Vianne and Jillian?, likely of the same mind/'cut from the same cloth'? Everyone is a bit 'coy' about them!!!
Perhaps they will come to realise that Cynthia, Sheri and Lauren have it covered. Doing it without the flaws and 'baggage' that Ross brings with him?
🤷♂️ twt.
Look it's fine for Ross to keep active in his campaign against his ex church. But he should be at least honest enough to do it without putting this Brave Truth cloak for a 'fig leaf' covering eh? Why lure decent folk into his web with this? Expressions of bias you say? Funny little fellow you are Hello Pot, meet Kettle! I’m not being coy about them, I don’t need to know their status. The fact they’re stepping up to help with exposing Pedofiles in the world tells me all I need to know about any of them.
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Post by chuck on Jul 23, 2023 2:23:17 GMT -5
and never would........like most of the reactions they are only sorry because they got caught......they didn't care beforehand otherwise Ross wouldn't be in that role..... Rotten to the core...feel sorry for any innocents caught up in it regardless of their convictions. Exactly chuck ! They have had years to sort this out ! But instead deny, deny, deny....! Then have to hide to criticize Ross for doing what they should have done ! Any system or organisation has problems it cannot control, that's just a fact. But it is slowly coming to a head that this system willingly makes the Catholics look like angels. Good people are trying to make the leadership and staunch enablers aware of this issue but heaven help them regardless if they are innies or outies as it seems squashing any potential threat that could lead to them having to relinquish power is the only priority. Whining about Ross shows the fundamental driver is self preservation. He's more worrier about the influence Ross may have on his members than the culture that has screwed up his members lives.
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Post by mountain on Jul 23, 2023 2:34:37 GMT -5
Exactly chuck ! They have had years to sort this out ! But instead deny, deny, deny....! Then have to hide to criticize Ross for doing what they should have done ! Any system or organisation has problems it cannot control, that's just a fact. But it is slowly coming to a head that this system willingly makes the Catholics look like angels. Good people are trying to make the leadership and staunch enablers aware of this issue but heaven help them regardless if they are innies or outies as it seems squashing any potential threat that could lead to them having to relinquish power is the only priority. Whining about Ross shows the fundamental driver is self preservation. He's more worrier about the influence Ross may have on his members than the culture that has screwed up his members lives. The whole system is built on it being the only and perfect way, unlike the world or other ways of Christian faiths. It is different, very different. We do not have the problems that other faiths do because we are the perfect way. The workers Achilles Heel is their dependency upon a subservient fellowship which supports them, unquestionably. Any threat to this mentality has great potential to bring the whole system crashing down and leaving the workers cast adrift in society without means or support. The system has absolutely no room for manoeuvre. It is like a stool (the chair kind), supported by legs. Take away one leg and it falls to the ground. It is a very precarious thing and survives on the only, perfect way, otherwise most would not accept that which is imposed upon them in the name of salvationary conformity. For this reason no real changes will take place. They simply cannot afford to. They may tinker about the edges to make it look as though they are doing something positive and meaningful, but it will stop way short of that which is necessary. Doing the right thing is a threat to their survival.
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Post by chuck on Jul 23, 2023 2:38:47 GMT -5
and never would........like most of the reactions they are only sorry because they got caught......they didn't care beforehand otherwise Ross wouldn't be in that role..... Rotten to the core...feel sorry for any innocents caught up in it regardless of their convictions. Exactly chuck ! They have had years to sort this out ! But instead deny, deny, deny....! Then have to hide to criticize Ross for doing what they should have done ! There is all sorts of disgusting crap going on behinds the scenes here at the moment involving mistreatment of people within there own ministry whilst they still allow a worker with a CSA cloud over their head into young family homes. The moral compass of those who think they have authority is screwed. And its the same stench as this bloke whining about Ross, self preservation.
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Post by chuck on Jul 23, 2023 2:49:28 GMT -5
Any system or organisation has problems it cannot control, that's just a fact. But it is slowly coming to a head that this system willingly makes the Catholics look like angels. Good people are trying to make the leadership and staunch enablers aware of this issue but heaven help them regardless if they are innies or outies as it seems squashing any potential threat that could lead to them having to relinquish power is the only priority. Whining about Ross shows the fundamental driver is self preservation. He's more worrier about the influence Ross may have on his members than the culture that has screwed up his members lives. The whole system is built on it being the only and perfect way, unlike the world or other ways of Christian faiths. It is different, very different. We do not have the problems that other faiths do because we are the perfect way. The workers Achilles Heel is their dependency upon a subservient fellowship which supports them, unquestionably. Any threat to this mentality has great potential to bring the whole system crashing down and leaving the workers cast adrift in society without means or support. The system has absolutely no room for manoeuvre. It is like a stool (the chair kind), supported by legs. Take away one leg and it falls to the ground. It is a very precarious thing and survives on the only, perfect way, otherwise most would not accept that which is imposed upon them in the name of salvationary conformity. For this reason no real changes will take place. They simply cannot afford to. They may tinker about the edges to make it look as though they are doing something positive and meaningful, but it will stop way short of that which is necessary. Doing the right thing is a threat to their survival. That's a parasite.......and I'm pretty sure Jesus wasn't telling people to go out and be parasites......
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Post by chuck on Jul 23, 2023 3:05:47 GMT -5
I like what James has to say about the matter.....
James 1:27 [27]Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
I would suggest popping in with an hours notice and gracing people with your worker presence is not what James is suggesting.......
I think What Ross is doing closer resembles this than what mr studies has been doing today or for the last god knows how long.
Ok enough attacking Mr studies for me today.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jul 23, 2023 8:37:10 GMT -5
Dear International Studies You provide this evidence for your premise that Ross Bowden has no integrity: “He came across as smooth and plausible “ in the 60 minutes show. That statement is not “evidence”. It could be used for either side of the argument. Would you like to give the matter further thought? Perhaps do some critical thinking? Blessings Barbara barbara, (and godsgrace, etc etc,)firstly: appreciation for your kind blessings!
secondly: Unsurprised you are impressed with ross' smooth plausible 60min performance! thirdly: read a few thousand of rossy's run of obsessed TMB posts where he expresses his views about his ex church; the cultish, sub standard, inferior '2x2s'. (he presents his new church, some anglican evangelical outfit, as 'just the cat's whiskers', superior in all points and ways to the corrupt inferior old '2x2ers')
then, as barb suggests in her 'pleasant school mistress' manner: "Would you like to give the matter further thought? Perhaps do some critical thinking?" 🤭😳 Lastly: I'm realistic though... nothing will change your support of him sporting his new "brave truth Australia" fig leaf covering! Run with it!
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 23, 2023 17:58:50 GMT -5
Dearest International Studies
Ross is a personal friend of mine. The perpetrator who was exposed on 60 minutes is the uncle of my children, my ex husband’s brother. I therefore have much evidence to support my premise that he is a person of integrity. Ross’ posts here, and on other sites, only outline sound Biblical theology.
Like Ross, I feel very sorry for those of you trapped in the bondage of 2x2ism, I pray every day that you will be released and come to enjoy the glorious freedom that we have in Christ, because Christ died for us to have that.
Yes, I am a teacher. But not your ordinary run of the mill school teacher. I’ve been around the world and worked/lived in places that none of you have ever been to. I had a university education because God gave me a very good brain. I’m very grateful for all the experiences I’ve had in education because I have met people from all over the world, heard their stories and walked with them a few miles of our journeys. That opened my eyes to the cruel exclusivity of the 2x2s. It was in a tiny school with an enrolment of 100% aboriginal students that I started to attend a Presbyterian Church and met Jesus. What a glorious experience and the beginning of a life of freedom, secure in the knowledge that I am saved!
I’m very sorry for you. Please don’t insult me further with denigrating posts. It would be wise to admit that there are other perspectives to consider. You have nothing to be afraid of in expanding your views.
Blessings Barbara
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Post by snow on Jul 23, 2023 20:19:16 GMT -5
Hearsay that Ross is an ex that is very vocal in his dislike for the teachings of the group? It’s like appointing a ex Muslim to support devout Muslims in revealing abuse. Think a bit deeper than your position Rosyln. I’m sure you know that abuse is complicated. I know a case where 13 people were abused and only one person was brave enough to come forward - i don’t think you understand. themaninthemirror, you still haven't answered my question, why is it such an issue to you if someone is an "ex" ? The Workers and Friends have had years to get this sorted, why haven't they ? Why do you think the Sixty Minutes Doco was done ? Could it have been that people in Australia were over things being covered up ? Workers moved from one state to the next, people talking to Workers and being shut down ? You are basing your opinion of Ross on hearsay. You have no idea what has gone on behind the scenes by Ross and many other people ( a lot who are "exs) Ross stepped up and said what a lot of people were thinking. As for the abuse I am well aware of how devastating it is and the amount that has been covered up. Surely you have to understand a lot of the friends are going to to question, when a group of people promote themselves as "the only way" why has thing happened ? I find it interesting that the friends don't ever ask why there are so many exes and why so many of them are passionate about telling their story and trying to advocate for change even after leaving? Instead of just calling all exes that speak out about their experiences in the group as 'bitter', maybe they should be asking WHY so many are feeling angry, betrayed, sick about the abuses etc. Instead of just thinking that they are trying to destroy by speaking out and advocating for change maybe they should examine the reasons for how they got there in the first place. The thousands of exes out there left for a reason and the majority of them are not nasty mean people that are trying to bring the group down. But they are worried about the depression, the abuse within because they still have loved ones inside that they see that are struggling.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jul 23, 2023 20:23:52 GMT -5
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 23, 2023 22:42:41 GMT -5
Why is the Brave Truth Australia a “fig leaf” covering for anybody?
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Post by fixit on Jul 23, 2023 23:41:01 GMT -5
Dearest International Studies Ross is a personal friend of mine. The perpetrator who was exposed on 60 minutes is the uncle of my children, my ex husband’s brother. I therefore have much evidence to support my premise that he is a person of integrity. Ross’ posts here, and on other sites, only outline sound Biblical theology. Like Ross, I feel very sorry for those of you trapped in the bondage of 2x2ism, I pray every day that you will be released and come to enjoy the glorious freedom that we have in Christ, because Christ died for us to have that. Yes, I am a teacher. But not your ordinary run of the mill school teacher. I’ve been around the world and worked/lived in places that none of you have ever been to. I had a university education because God gave me a very good brain. I’m very grateful for all the experiences I’ve had in education because I have met people from all over the world, heard their stories and walked with them a few miles of our journeys. That opened my eyes to the cruel exclusivity of the 2x2s. It was in a tiny school with an enrolment of 100% aboriginal students that I started to attend a Presbyterian Church and met Jesus. What a glorious experience and the beginning of a life of freedom, secure in the knowledge that I am saved! I’m very sorry for you. Please don’t insult me further with denigrating posts. It would be wise to admit that there are other perspectives to consider. You have nothing to be afraid of in expanding your views. Blessings Barbara You refer to "sound biblical theology". You have obviously jumped from one form of exclusivity into another. There are many theologians who would say that yours and Ross's "sound biblical theology" is not at all sound.
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 24, 2023 1:05:15 GMT -5
Please give me the names of those theologians.
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help
Senior Member
Life Member "Australian Order of Old Bastards" AOOB.
Posts: 841
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Post by help on Jul 24, 2023 1:11:31 GMT -5
Many students undertake theological study to enquire further into their own faith. They find that the study of Theology can enrich their understanding of the Gospel and open new horizons, even as it follows ancient paths. You do not need to have a faith of your own to find the issues raised by Theology compelling.
Theology is accurate and sound and a uniform teaching for all Christians, independent of their particular denomination. Anything taught at University has been properly researched. So different to a doctrine developed by every Tom, Dick and Harry without proper research. You can rest assured that both Barbara and Ross have made the effort to access "sound biblical theology".
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Post by chuck on Jul 24, 2023 1:30:36 GMT -5
Why is the Brave Truth Australia a “fig leaf” covering for anybody? One thing it is cover for is a inadequacy elsewhere..... It's a bit rich that the bloke who's been selling needles to people is talking about coverings......
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 24, 2023 1:50:48 GMT -5
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Adam and Eve use fig leaves to attempt to cover their nakedness? Why would Ross want to be involved in an organisation to cover his nakedness (metaphorical or otherwise)? Perhaps you don’t understand the metaphor/ analogy?
But then, I’m not qualified to say such things. Apparently, I should be a little grey mouse wearing a long skirt, hair in a bun, speaking in a hypo phonic voice, too afraid to have an opinion, meekly making food for the important Workers…. afraid of being excommunicated or shunned, told to stop speaking in meetings, denied the bread and wine, or whatever is the latest punishment …
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2023 2:26:36 GMT -5
Dearest International Studies Ross is a personal friend of mine. The perpetrator who was exposed on 60 minutes is the uncle of my children, my ex husband’s brother. I therefore have much evidence to support my premise that he is a person of integrity. Ross’ posts here, and on other sites, only outline sound Biblical theology. Like Ross, I feel very sorry for those of you trapped in the bondage of 2x2ism, I pray every day that you will be released and come to enjoy the glorious freedom that we have in Christ, because Christ died for us to have that. Yes, I am a teacher. But not your ordinary run of the mill school teacher. I’ve been around the world and worked/lived in places that none of you have ever been to. I had a university education because God gave me a very good brain. I’m very grateful for all the experiences I’ve had in education because I have met people from all over the world, heard their stories and walked with them a few miles of our journeys. That opened my eyes to the cruel exclusivity of the 2x2s. It was in a tiny school with an enrolment of 100% aboriginal students that I started to attend a Presbyterian Church and met Jesus. What a glorious experience and the beginning of a life of freedom, secure in the knowledge that I am saved! I’m very sorry for you. Please don’t insult me further with denigrating posts. It would be wise to admit that there are other perspectives to consider. You have nothing to be afraid of in expanding your views. Blessings Barbara Not a fan of review005 by any measure maybe you were not aware, but you wouldn't be the only world traveler here on TMB XNA has been to more countries than anyone I've ever heard of and at the street level...you might want to expand your views to include processing folks that have travelled a bit too and don't have the exact same anti-2x2 takeaway as you.
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Post by mountain on Jul 24, 2023 3:39:09 GMT -5
Many students undertake theological study to enquire further into their own faith. They find that the study of Theology can enrich their understanding of the Gospel and open new horizons, even as it follows ancient paths. You do not need to have a faith of your own to find the issues raised by Theology compelling. Theology is accurate and sound and a uniform teaching for all Christians, independent of their particular denomination. Anything taught at University has been properly researched. So different to a doctrine developed by every Tom, Dick and Harry without proper research. You can rest assured that both Barbara and Ross have made the effort to access "sound biblical theology". Who is the real teacher of New Testament theology? Ignoring the primary teacher and guide has led to the theological mess we have in the world today, and yesterday and in times before that. Man has used his version of theology to control the masses since before Christ's ministry.
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Post by themaninthemirror on Jul 24, 2023 4:07:47 GMT -5
Hearsay that Ross is an ex that is very vocal in his dislike for the teachings of the group? It’s like appointing a ex Muslim to support devout Muslims in revealing abuse. Think a bit deeper than your position Rosyln. I’m sure you know that abuse is complicated. I know a case where 13 people were abused and only one person was brave enough to come forward - i don’t think you understand. themaninthemirror, you still haven't answered my question, why is it such an issue to you if someone is an "ex" ? The Workers and Friends have had years to get this sorted, why haven't they ? Why do you think the Sixty Minutes Doco was done ? Could it have been that people in Australia were over things being covered up ? Workers moved from one state to the next, people talking to Workers and being shut down ? You are basing your opinion of Ross on hearsay. You have no idea what has gone on behind the scenes by Ross and many other people ( a lot who are "exs) Ross stepped up and said what a lot of people were thinking. As for the abuse I am well aware of how devastating it is and the amount that has been covered up. Surely you have to understand a lot of the friends are going to to question, when a group of people promote themselves as "the only way" why has thing happened ? Question: why is it such an issue to you if someone is an "ex" ? Answer: Because an ex will have motives beyond "helping the abused", if this wasn't the case, Ross would have made it his life's mission to support all the abused. Even if his bias won't be intentional. His perspectives will be tainted against the "2x2s". Question:The Workers and Friends have had years to get this sorted, why haven't they ? Answer: I think it hasn't been dealt with consistently and people haven't joined the dots. This has happened all over society. Check out your fellow Aussie Rolf Harris or Jimmy Saville - both huge media personalities who managed to abuse hundreds of children in plain sight. When people started to talk... the scale was realised. Keep in mind the society in which this happened - abuse wasn't spoken about or even taken seriously. This was due to lack of education from all - friends, workers, non friends. At this stage I would suggest it is reputational damage that they were trying to avoid. Question: Why do you think the Sixty Minutes Doco was done ? Answer: I have no idea. Question: Could it have been that people in Australia were over things being covered up ? Answer: Probably a mix of anger, wanting resolve, a bit of revenge. I don't really think it was aimed at resolving anything, it was aimed at exposing it - but that is not what all victims want. The front man of that documentary was Ross. Questions: Workers moved from one state to the next, people talking to Workers and being shut down? Answer: Not sure what the question is.. ?
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Post by internationalstudies on Jul 24, 2023 4:44:44 GMT -5
Why is the Brave Truth Australia a “fig leaf” covering for anybody? For your consideration 2 Thes 2:9-12 and/or Eph 2:2 as a start perhaps?
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Post by bfvernon on Jul 24, 2023 4:59:24 GMT -5
That’s spiritual abuse. It is not an explanation of the “fig leaf” mangled metaphor.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jul 24, 2023 5:12:24 GMT -5
Look I apologise but after all this. If a 'not an ordinary run of the mill school teacher' with 'a very good brain' hasn't yet caught on about the connection between her personal friend Ross Bowden and the ' fig leaf' mangled metaphor. I'm really quite scratching my head what to try next?
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Post by matisse on Jul 24, 2023 5:17:20 GMT -5
Imo, it is important to have teams of people in place who do not answer to any overseers, and who will not feel threatened if bullied by a two-bit brother or sister worker. Some may be put off by Ross, but others will recognize him as someone who will not "tattle" on them or pressure them to stay silent or engage in a smear campaign against them.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jul 24, 2023 5:28:03 GMT -5
Imo, it is important to have teams of people in place who do not answer to any overseers, and who will not feel threatened if bullied by a two-bit brother or sister worker. Some may be put off by Ross, but others will recognize him as someone who will not "tattle" on them or pressure them to stay silent or engage in a smear campaign against them. Thanks matisse! Unlike barbara bfvernon you recognise that given Ross Bowden's track record some will be put off 'true heart Australia'. Not so sure about your 'tattle' comment going by some of his TMB posts? Smear campaigns? Could he be tempted to encourage some to join in his smear campaign against his ex church?.... the awful 2x2s? twt on this I guess?
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