|
Post by intelchips on Jun 18, 2023 12:37:18 GMT -5
One can only wonder in amazement while reading the flood of posts concerning CSA and other problems with the 2x2 church. And what I have today here is not just limited to the 2x2 church but Christianity as a whole. The reason I throw my pearls before you are because my family had a long tradition of being a part of the 2x2 church.
If one didn’t allow their belief system to accept the various Christian teachings, they would be free to join realistically functioning humans and be received into a much larger support system to deal with CSA and other problems.
Humanity is a class of beings that continues to update their understanding of reality and how they deal with problems. We no longer burn witches, nor blame women for being assaulted because of how they dress. We no longer practice bloodletting nor using all the barbaric treatments of the past to cure schizophrenia.
If one is willing to open their mind to the possibility, they may be wrong and spend time digging deep into research they will find that most everything in the Christian Bible is plagiarized from elsewhere and the New Testament even plagiarized from the Old Testament.
We all owe a death, what's waits beyond if anything no one knows. If you can accept this then get on with enjoying your life.
I’m no angel but I spend all my spare time coaching youth soccer because I see that is the place I can have the most influence in teaching youth to be a team player, to look out after each other both on and off the pitch and that they also make friends for life playing the beautiful game.
I have remained quite so far on this CSA thing. However, over the years I had become aware of many problems within the church, but I was more focused on the big lie rather than the problems contained inside the big lie.
So, I see from the forum so many hurting, disappointed, lost, I suggest you come to a youth soccer game at RRSA and watch our youth pursue the beautiful game and for a few hours all your troubles will vanish.
Be of good cheer
|
|
|
Post by ForeverFree on Jun 18, 2023 13:25:28 GMT -5
Everything within the organization of this church is based on a lie. Everything is a coverup from the founding to the abuse. The workers have lied and lied and lied. Now it's all coming back to them, and it ain't pretty!
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jun 18, 2023 14:55:51 GMT -5
Everything within the organization of this church is based on a lie. Everything is a coverup from the founding to the abuse. The workers have lied and lied and lied. Now it's all coming back to them, and it ain't pretty! Reminds me of what we grew up with that it's OK to lie for the sake of the kingdom. They've lied and spread lies around about people who have spoken the truth. The workers have lied and hidden the truth of their beginnings leading people to believe a lie since the beginning. Would many of our ancestors have joined if they'd known it was started by a man. I'd guess not. People were led into a trap by being told this was started by Jesus. This generation is left with trying to clean up the mess. This 'church' was built on a lie.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jun 18, 2023 15:19:26 GMT -5
Everything within the organization of this church is based on a lie. Everything is a coverup from the founding to the abuse. The workers have lied and lied and lied. Now it's all coming back to them, and it ain't pretty! Reminds me of what we grew up with that it's OK to lie for the sake of the kingdom. They've lied and spread lies around about people who have spoken the truth. The workers have lied and hidden the truth of their beginnings leading people to believe a lie since the beginning. Would many of our ancestors have joined if they'd known it was started by a man. I'd guess not. People were led into a trap by being told this was started by Jesus. This generation is left with trying to clean up the mess. This 'church' was built on a lie. Whilst the emboldened statement is correct, I believe 'built on deception,' is a better way of putting it. Everything is hushed up or swept under the carpet and not spoken about. Great effort has gone into portraying the perfect and only true way image. Many friends and workers are deceived even to this day about the beginnings and all the trimmings afterwards. A lie is when someone makes a false statement knowing it to be untrue with the intent of deceiving others. In many cases friends and workers have made false statements about the way in total ignorance of what they have said was untrue. There was no intention to deceive or mislead anyone, but rather were trying to project what the believed to be true. They were deceived. We can argue the toss about lies or deception. Lies certainly feature, but to myself I see the deception much more clearly. Everyone can be guilty of deception, unwittingly or otherwise, but the telling of lies requires guilty knowledge.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jun 18, 2023 15:23:46 GMT -5
Reminds me of what we grew up with that it's OK to lie for the sake of the kingdom. They've lied and spread lies around about people who have spoken the truth. The workers have lied and hidden the truth of their beginnings leading people to believe a lie since the beginning. Would many of our ancestors have joined if they'd known it was started by a man. I'd guess not. People were led into a trap by being told this was started by Jesus. This generation is left with trying to clean up the mess. This 'church' was built on a lie. Whilst the emboldened statement is correct, I believe 'built on deception,' is a better way of putting it. Everything is hushed up or swept under the carpet and not spoken about. Great effort has gone into portraying the perfect and only true way image. Many friends and workers are deceived even to this day about the beginnings and all the trimmings afterwards. A lie is when someone makes a false statement knowing it to be untrue with the intent of deceiving others. In many cases friends and workers have made false statements about the way in total ignorance of what they have said was untrue. There was no intention to deceive or mislead anyone, but rather were trying to project what the believed to be true. They were deceived. We can argue the toss about lies or deception. Lies certainly feature, but to myself I see the deception much more clearly. Everyone can be guilty of deception, unwittingly or otherwise, but the telling of lies requires guilty knowledge. The people were decieved but the workers who began preaching that they were started by Jesus and had no earthly founder were lying. Being decieved was the result of being lied to. I am always very hesitant in accusing someone of lying and are not comfortable with the word but I can think of no other word to name it at this stage. The opposite to the truth which is what they call themselves os a lie.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jun 18, 2023 15:25:50 GMT -5
The elitism and power started by claiming to be God's true way going as far as calling it the Truth. The workers placed themselves in a position of power over the people, eating, sleeping and using their money to live off, all in the name of God. Using the Bible to manipulate and control people by claiming to be homeless. There's nothing godly about their method. There are still suckers who believe their sad, sob story of being poor and homeless. They accuse People who can see through it as not being willing. To sacrifice yourself for the workers is sacrifice yourself for God. They've turned the Truth (of Jesus) into a lie.
Maybe when more people wake up the workers might actually learn what it means to be homeless.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 18, 2023 15:29:42 GMT -5
One can only wonder in amazement while reading the flood of posts concerning CSA and other problems with the 2x2 church. And what I have today here is not just limited to the 2x2 church but Christianity as a whole. The reason I throw my pearls before you are because my family had a long tradition of being a part of the 2x2 church. If one didn’t allow their belief system to accept the various Christian teachings, they would be free to join realistically functioning humans and be received into a much larger support system to deal with CSA and other problems. Humanity is a class of beings that continues to update their understanding of reality and how they deal with problems. We no longer burn witches, nor blame women for being assaulted because of how they dress. We no longer practice bloodletting nor using all the barbaric treatments of the past to cure schizophrenia. If one is willing to open their mind to the possibility, they may be wrong and spend time digging deep into research they will find that most everything in the Christian Bible is plagiarized from elsewhere and the New Testament even plagiarized from the Old Testament. We all owe a death, what's waits beyond if anything no one knows. If you can accept this then get on with enjoying your life. I’m no angel but I spend all my spare time coaching youth soccer because I see that is the place I can have the most influence in teaching youth to be a team player, to look out after each other both on and off the pitch and that they also make friends for life playing the beautiful game. I have remained quite so far on this CSA thing. However, over the years I had become aware of many problems within the church, but I was more focused on the big lie rather than the problems contained inside the big lie. So, I see from the forum so many hurting, disappointed, lost, I suggest you come to a youth soccer game at RRSA and watch our youth pursue the beautiful game and for a few hours all your troubles will vanish. Be of good cheer
It is all overwhelming, I must confess that I had no idea how bad or common place the S.A. was, I didn't even know what CSA meant until I got on his forum.. It all comes down to oversight, as Elizabeth has mentioned several times, most churches have a committee, deacons, and proper bookkeeping to keep everything on the straight and narrow. With no independent branch of cross checking, or even in-house oversight, no trust can be restored.
Its not the belief system (Christianity) that's corrupt, its all the flim-flam that accompanies it. So much unscrupulous behavior and cover-ups erode confidence in leadership, or the lack thereof. Blowing-off real problems by saying "We are taking the matter under consideration", "We will let the spirit be our guide in finding a resolution", or "We will seek an answer in prayer to find a remedy to your complaint". When someone's child was molested, those type of responses just don't cut it.
The bible is spiritually inspired, it is our commonsense guide, so Workers shouldn't need to consider, pray, or wait for the Spirit to answer questions that the bible clearly addresses. Just like in soccer/football, the rules apply to everyone, there's a penalty box for violators. The Coach is Christ, there's no team players without him. The Holy Spirit convicts us with the knowledge of right from wrong, ignoring that conviction leads to trouble, that's why the ball ain't going in the net. When worldly people need to straighten out a Christian church from engaging in criminal activities, its a sad state of affairs.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jun 18, 2023 15:31:27 GMT -5
Whilst the emboldened statement is correct, I believe 'built on deception,' is a better way of putting it. Everything is hushed up or swept under the carpet and not spoken about. Great effort has gone into portraying the perfect and only true way image. Many friends and workers are deceived even to this day about the beginnings and all the trimmings afterwards. A lie is when someone makes a false statement knowing it to be untrue with the intent of deceiving others. In many cases friends and workers have made false statements about the way in total ignorance of what they have said was untrue. There was no intention to deceive or mislead anyone, but rather were trying to project what the believed to be true. They were deceived. We can argue the toss about lies or deception. Lies certainly feature, but to myself I see the deception much more clearly. Everyone can be guilty of deception, unwittingly or otherwise, but the telling of lies requires guilty knowledge. The people were decieved but the workers who began preaching that they were started by Jesus and had no earthly founder were lying. Being decieved was the result of being lied to. I agree. Lies were told and a blanket of deception resulted. Many people today were deceived rather than lied to because the people who deceived them genuinely believed in what they were preaching/teaching. None of the people that influenced me or spoke to me over the years, told me any lies, because they truly believed what they were imparting. However they were deceived and were passing on untrue information, through which they deceived others. You're right, lies were told at various stages since the foundation of the way, but the deception has been far greater and sad to say, has in the main been innocently passed on in the belief that it is true.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jun 18, 2023 15:34:56 GMT -5
I am not comfortable with the word lying but I can think of no other word to name it at this stage. The opposite to the truth which is what they call themselves is a lie.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jun 18, 2023 15:44:56 GMT -5
I am not comfortable with the word lying but I can think of no other word to name it at this stage. The opposite to the truth which is what they call themselves is a lie. I understand your point and really it is not one worth having differences about, especially considering the bigger picture and the fact we are really on the same level, just with a slightly different way of understanding things. For me, a lie is when someone makes a statement knowing it to be untrue, with the intention of deceiving others. There is guilty knowledge present. They know they are not being truthful. They are lying. A person who believes or is deceived into thinking that something is true, which is actually false, and innocently passes it on to others believing it to be true, is merely wrong. They are not lying as there is no guilty knowledge. However, they are more than likely deceived. Yes the deception follows on from lies.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2023 16:00:37 GMT -5
Reminds me of what we grew up with that it's OK to lie for the sake of the kingdom. They've lied and spread lies around about people who have spoken the truth. The workers have lied and hidden the truth of their beginnings leading people to believe a lie since the beginning. Would many of our ancestors have joined if they'd known it was started by a man. I'd guess not. People were led into a trap by being told this was started by Jesus. This generation is left with trying to clean up the mess. This 'church' was built on a lie. Imagine my surprise when last weekend at convention Ray Hoffman spoke about "120 years ago when the first workers went out with the gospel" and "It's fruitless to try to find a connection all the way back to Jesus, it doesn't exist." (paraphrased). Others listening in the same meeting didn't even pick up on it. If you remove the foundation stones, how can the building stand?
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 18, 2023 16:02:39 GMT -5
Everything within the organization of this church is based on a lie. Everything is a coverup from the founding to the abuse. The workers have lied and lied and lied. Now it's all coming back to them, and it ain't pretty! Reminds me of what we grew up with that it's OK to lie for the sake of the kingdom. They've lied and spread lies around about people who have spoken the truth. The workers have lied and hidden the truth of their beginnings leading people to believe a lie since the beginning. Would many of our ancestors have joined if they'd known it was started by a man. I'd guess not. People were led into a trap by being told this was started by Jesus. This generation is left with trying to clean up the mess. This 'church' was built on a lie.
I remember my parents asking the Workers if this Way was an ongoing progression from when Jesus set-up his ministry. They had no definitive answer, but just claimed it was exactly as Jesus instructed in Matthew 10. So in that respect, the Truth was that they were practicing what the bible taught (itinerant Workers sent out in pairs, mtgs in the home, etc). In that sense, they were following what Jesus instructed, so the 'man' who started it was Christ.
They also said that they had no literal generation to generation records of Christ forward, but presumed Mat 10 was followed in close form, likely kept underground during the dark ages, with possible intermediate disruptions.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jun 18, 2023 16:03:27 GMT -5
Imagine my surprise when last weekend at convention Ray Hoffman spoke about "120 years ago when the first workers went out with the gospel" and "It's fruitless to try to find a connection all the way back to Jesus, it doesn't exist." (paraphrased). Others listening in the same meeting didn't even pick up on it. If you remove the foundation stones, how can the building stand? Like a building built on the sand.
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 18, 2023 16:11:45 GMT -5
If you remove the foundation stones, how can the building stand? Like a building built on the sand. The tide is coming in fast.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jun 18, 2023 16:13:54 GMT -5
Reminds me of what we grew up with that it's OK to lie for the sake of the kingdom. They've lied and spread lies around about people who have spoken the truth. The workers have lied and hidden the truth of their beginnings leading people to believe a lie since the beginning. Would many of our ancestors have joined if they'd known it was started by a man. I'd guess not. People were led into a trap by being told this was started by Jesus. This generation is left with trying to clean up the mess. This 'church' was built on a lie. I remember my parents asking the Workers if this Way as an ongoing progression from when Jesus set-up his ministry. They had no definitive answer, but just claimed it was exactly as Jesus instructed in Matthew 10. So in that respect, the Truth was that they were practicing what the bible taught (itinerant Workers sent out in pairs, mtgs in the home, etc). In that sense, they were following what Jesus instructed, so the 'man' who started it was Christ.
They also said that they had no literal generation to generation records of Christ forward, but presumed Mat 10 was followed in close form, likely kept underground during the dark ages, with possible intermediate disruptions.
Well my experience was very different. Any time I asked about the beginnings, which admittedly was not very often, I was told this way went all the way back to the shores of Galilee. It had always been in the world. It was kept hidden from the wise and the prudent. I truly believe that those who attested to these things genuinely believed such things themselves. In latter times when I was standing aside from meetings, I raised these matters again with workers, mainly senior sister workers, and they all gave me the impression that they genuinely believed these things to be so and would not entertain any question that this was not the case.
|
|
|
Post by internationalstudies on Jun 18, 2023 16:28:17 GMT -5
One can only wonder in amazement while reading the flood of posts concerning CSA and other problems with the 2x2 church. And what I have today here is not just limited to the 2x2 church but Christianity as a whole. The reason I throw my pearls before you are because my family had a long tradition of being a part of the 2x2 church. If one didn’t allow their belief system to accept the various Christian teachings, they would be free to join realistically functioning humans and be received into a much larger support system to deal with CSA and other problems. Humanity is a class of beings that continues to update their understanding of reality and how they deal with problems. We no longer burn witches, nor blame women for being assaulted because of how they dress. We no longer practice bloodletting nor using all the barbaric treatments of the past to cure schizophrenia. If one is willing to open their mind to the possibility, they may be wrong and spend time digging deep into research they will find that most everything in the Christian Bible is plagiarized from elsewhere and the New Testament even plagiarized from the Old Testament. We all owe a death, what's waits beyond if anything no one knows. If you can accept this then get on with enjoying your life. I’m no angel but I spend all my spare time coaching youth soccer because I see that is the place I can have the most influence in teaching youth to be a team player, to look out after each other both on and off the pitch and that they also make friends for life playing the beautiful game. I have remained quite so far on this CSA thing. However, over the years I had become aware of many problems within the church, but I was more focused on the big lie rather than the problems contained inside the big lie. So, I see from the forum so many hurting, disappointed, lost, I suggest you come to a youth soccer game at RRSA and watch our youth pursue the beautiful game and for a few hours all your troubles will vanish. Be of good cheer I record this for posterity: There have been sad things happen, cleansing and change is happening. A spring can get polluted but it cleanses itself and continues to spring up from its pure source. Doomsayers and your predictions...... I state a reality that is an uncomfortable truth for you. -People are finding Christ and becoming part of our church these very days. -There is a strong base of young people, young families, young workers who have found and live in Christ and they are the future. There are such middle and old aged friends and workers also. Keep this if you wish, refer if you wish again after 10 years and see how fulfilled the doomsayers (and their cheerleaders hurrahs and 'likes') and predictions are. I will get mocked, scorned, derided and dismissed for this reality and truth that I have posted..... and I don't give a hoot about that! 😜
|
|
|
Post by intelchips on Jun 18, 2023 17:06:49 GMT -5
One can only wonder in amazement while reading the flood of posts concerning CSA and other problems with the 2x2 church. And what I have today here is not just limited to the 2x2 church but Christianity as a whole. The reason I throw my pearls before you are because my family had a long tradition of being a part of the 2x2 church. If one didn’t allow their belief system to accept the various Christian teachings, they would be free to join realistically functioning humans and be received into a much larger support system to deal with CSA and other problems. Humanity is a class of beings that continues to update their understanding of reality and how they deal with problems. We no longer burn witches, nor blame women for being assaulted because of how they dress. We no longer practice bloodletting nor using all the barbaric treatments of the past to cure schizophrenia. If one is willing to open their mind to the possibility, they may be wrong and spend time digging deep into research they will find that most everything in the Christian Bible is plagiarized from elsewhere and the New Testament even plagiarized from the Old Testament. We all owe a death, what's waits beyond if anything no one knows. If you can accept this then get on with enjoying your life. I’m no angel but I spend all my spare time coaching youth soccer because I see that is the place I can have the most influence in teaching youth to be a team player, to look out after each other both on and off the pitch and that they also make friends for life playing the beautiful game. I have remained quite so far on this CSA thing. However, over the years I had become aware of many problems within the church, but I was more focused on the big lie rather than the problems contained inside the big lie. So, I see from the forum so many hurting, disappointed, lost, I suggest you come to a youth soccer game at RRSA and watch our youth pursue the beautiful game and for a few hours all your troubles will vanish. Be of good cheer I record this for posterity: There have been sad things happen, cleansing and change is happening. A spring can get polluted but it cleanses itself and continues to spring up from its pure source. Doomsayers and your predictions...... I state a reality that is an uncomfortable truth for you. -People are finding Christ and becoming part of our church these very days. -There is a strong base of young people, young families, young workers who have found and live in Christ and they are the future. There are such middle and old aged friends and workers also. Keep this if you wish, refer if you wish again after 10 years and see how fulfilled the doomsayers (and their cheerleaders hurrahs and 'likes') and predictions are. I will get mocked, scorned, derided and dismissed for this reality and truth that I have posted..... and I don't give a hoot about that! 😜 Well then, let's start at the beginning. The biblical creation story featuring Adam and Eve as the first humans to ever have existed and a few people believe this story to be literally historically true as if it actually happened but I want to take you into the mythological background and let you decide at the end whether you think that it makes more sense if this is literal history or mythological symbolism. The story of Adam and Eve from The Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible has several parallels and similarities with earlier Sumerian stories. Sumer was an ancient civilization in Mesopotamia modern-day Southern Iraq that thrived around 4 000 to 2000 BCE and here we find a couple of Sumerian stories that are often cited as influences on the Adam and Eve narrative. I know Most have heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh, it's an ancient Mesopotamian epic that predates the biblical account of Adam and Eve. It tells the story of Gilgamesh, a legendary King and his search for immortality. In the epic there's a character named Enkidu who's created by the gods to be a wild man living in harmony with animals (does this sound familiar)? Enkidu is seduced by a temple prostitute and gains knowledge and civilization similar to the way Adam and Eve acquire knowledge in the Garden of Eden. The other one is the Atrahasis Epic, it's an ancient Mesopotamian myth that predates the biblical count of Adam and Eve and describes the creation of humans by the gods and their subsequent disobedience leading to a flood intended to wipe out Humanity. In this myth the gods create humans to be their servants and provide them with all their needs; however, the humans multiply and become too noisy disturbing the Gods and thus prompts the gods to send a flood of water to destroy Humanity. But one man named Atrahasis is warned in a dream and builds an ark to save himself, his family and animals Seems a little too much like Noah. I could go on and on but I know you will ignore all evidence and never accept the position that Adam and Eve are considered mythological figures rather than historical individuals. This is a consensus among scholarship but there are several reasons it's a consensus and why scholars lean on interpreting Adam and Eve as mythological rather than literal historical figures . But I have no intention of writing a book just to sell you a few facts. So go on, continue to believe in your myth and meanwhile Curly and I are waiting on King Authuir to return and save britton. And if by some quirk of fate you are one of the 2x2 who thinks Genesis is a myth then why would you pay any attention to the rest of a book that starts with a myth?
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 18, 2023 17:22:57 GMT -5
I record this for posterity: There have been sad things happen, cleansing and change is happening. A spring can get polluted but it cleanses itself and continues to spring up from its pure source. Doomsayers and your predictions...... I state a reality that is an uncomfortable truth for you. -People are finding Christ and becoming part of our church these very days. -There is a strong base of young people, young families, young workers who have found and live in Christ and they are the future. There are such middle and old aged friends and workers also. Keep this if you wish, refer if you wish again after 10 years and see how fulfilled the doomsayers (and their cheerleaders hurrahs and 'likes') and predictions are. I will get mocked, scorned, derided and dismissed for this reality and truth that I have posted..... and I don't give a hoot about that! 😜 Well then, let's start at the beginning. The biblical creation story featuring Adam and Eve as the first humans to ever have existed and a few people believe this story to be literally historically true as if it actually happened but I want to take you into the mythological background and let you decide at the end whether you think that it makes more sense if this is literal history or mythological symbolism. The story of Adam and Eve from The Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible has several parallels and similarities with earlier Sumerian stories. Sumer was an ancient civilization in Mesopotamia modern-day Southern Iraq that thrived around 4 000 to 2000 BCE and here we find a couple of Sumerian stories that are often cited as influences on the Adam and Eve narrative. I know Most have heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh, it's an ancient Mesopotamian epic that predates the biblical account of Adam and Eve. It tells the story of Gilgamesh, a legendary King and his search for immortality. In the epic there's a character named Enkidu who's created by the gods to be a wild man living in harmony with animals (does this sound familiar)? Enkidu is seduced by a temple prostitute and gains knowledge and civilization similar to the way Adam and Eve acquire knowledge in the Garden of Eden. The other one is the Atrahasis Epic, it's an ancient Mesopotamian myth that predates the biblical count of Adam and Eve and describes the creation of humans by the gods and their subsequent disobedience leading to a flood intended to wipe out Humanity. In this myth the gods create humans to be their servants and provide them with all their needs; however, the humans multiply and become too noisy disturbing the Gods and thus prompts the gods to send a flood of water to destroy Humanity. But one man named Atrahasis is warned in a dream and builds an ark to save himself, his family and animals Seems a little too much like Noah. I could go on and on but I know you will ignore all evidence and never accept the position that Adam and Eve are considered mythological figures rather than historical individuals. This is a consensus among scholarship but there are several reasons it's a consensus and why scholars lean on interpreting Adam and Eve as mythological rather than literal historical figures . But I have no intention of writing a book just to sell you a few facts. So go on, continue to believe in your myth and meanwhile Curly and I are waiting on King Authuir to return and save britton. And if by some quirk of fate you are one of the 2x2 who thinks Genesis is a myth then why would you pay any attention to the rest of a book that starts with a myth? I have Excalibur in my garden shed.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jun 18, 2023 17:23:20 GMT -5
I record this for posterity: There have been sad things happen, cleansing and change is happening. A spring can get polluted but it cleanses itself and continues to spring up from its pure source. Doomsayers and your predictions...... I state a reality that is an uncomfortable truth for you. -People are finding Christ and becoming part of our church these very days. -There is a strong base of young people, young families, young workers who have found and live in Christ and they are the future. There are such middle and old aged friends and workers also. Keep this if you wish, refer if you wish again after 10 years and see how fulfilled the doomsayers (and their cheerleaders hurrahs and 'likes') and predictions are. I will get mocked, scorned, derided and dismissed for this reality and truth that I have posted..... and I don't give a hoot about that! 😜 Well then, let's start at the beginning. The biblical creation story featuring Adam and Eve as the first humans to ever have existed and a few people believe this story to be literally historically true as if it actually happened but I want to take you into the mythological background and let you decide at the end whether you think that it makes more sense if this is literal history or mythological symbolism. The story of Adam and Eve from The Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible has several parallels and similarities with earlier Sumerian stories. Sumer was an ancient civilization in Mesopotamia modern-day Southern Iraq that thrived around 4 000 to 2000 BCE and here we find a couple of Sumerian stories that are often cited as influences on the Adam and Eve narrative. I know Most have heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh, it's an ancient Mesopotamian epic that predates the biblical account of Adam and Eve. It tells the story of Gilgamesh, a legendary King and his search for immortality. In the epic there's a character named Enkidu who's created by the gods to be a wild man living in harmony with animals (does this sound familiar)? Enkidu is seduced by a temple prostitute and gains knowledge and civilization similar to the way Adam and Eve acquire knowledge in the Garden of Eden. The other one is the Atrahasis Epic, it's an ancient Mesopotamian myth that predates the biblical count of Adam and Eve and describes the creation of humans by the gods and their subsequent disobedience leading to a flood intended to wipe out Humanity. In this myth the gods create humans to be their servants and provide them with all their needs; however, the humans multiply and become too noisy disturbing the Gods and thus prompts the gods to send a flood of water to destroy Humanity. But one man named Atrahasis is warned in a dream and builds an ark to save himself, his family and animals Seems a little too much like Noah. I could go on and on but I know you will ignore all evidence and never accept the position that Adam and Eve are considered mythological figures rather than historical individuals. This is a consensus among scholarship but there are several reasons it's a consensus and why scholars lean on interpreting Adam and Eve as mythological rather than literal historical figures . But I have no intention of writing a book just to sell you a few facts. So go on, continue to believe in your myth and meanwhile Curly and I are waiting on King Authuir to return and save britton. And if by some quirk of fate you are one of the 2x2 who thinks Genesis is a myth then why would you pay any attention to the rest of a book that starts with a myth? Jesus spoke of Noah and the flood as a historically factual occurrence. End of debate for the believer in Christ.
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jun 18, 2023 17:24:57 GMT -5
Well then, let's start at the beginning. The biblical creation story featuring Adam and Eve as the first humans to ever have existed and a few people believe this story to be literally historically true as if it actually happened but I want to take you into the mythological background and let you decide at the end whether you think that it makes more sense if this is literal history or mythological symbolism. The story of Adam and Eve from The Book of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible has several parallels and similarities with earlier Sumerian stories. Sumer was an ancient civilization in Mesopotamia modern-day Southern Iraq that thrived around 4 000 to 2000 BCE and here we find a couple of Sumerian stories that are often cited as influences on the Adam and Eve narrative. I know Most have heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh, it's an ancient Mesopotamian epic that predates the biblical account of Adam and Eve. It tells the story of Gilgamesh, a legendary King and his search for immortality. In the epic there's a character named Enkidu who's created by the gods to be a wild man living in harmony with animals (does this sound familiar)? Enkidu is seduced by a temple prostitute and gains knowledge and civilization similar to the way Adam and Eve acquire knowledge in the Garden of Eden. The other one is the Atrahasis Epic, it's an ancient Mesopotamian myth that predates the biblical count of Adam and Eve and describes the creation of humans by the gods and their subsequent disobedience leading to a flood intended to wipe out Humanity. In this myth the gods create humans to be their servants and provide them with all their needs; however, the humans multiply and become too noisy disturbing the Gods and thus prompts the gods to send a flood of water to destroy Humanity. But one man named Atrahasis is warned in a dream and builds an ark to save himself, his family and animals Seems a little too much like Noah. I could go on and on but I know you will ignore all evidence and never accept the position that Adam and Eve are considered mythological figures rather than historical individuals. This is a consensus among scholarship but there are several reasons it's a consensus and why scholars lean on interpreting Adam and Eve as mythological rather than literal historical figures . But I have no intention of writing a book just to sell you a few facts. So go on, continue to believe in your myth and meanwhile Curly and I are waiting on King Authuir to return and save britton. And if by some quirk of fate you are one of the 2x2 who thinks Genesis is a myth then why would you pay any attention to the rest of a book that starts with a myth? I have Excalibur in my garden shed. Is that so it is easier to pull out than from a stone?
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 18, 2023 17:26:27 GMT -5
I have Excalibur in my garden shed. Is that so it is easier to pull out than from a stone? No, I am in the process of giving it a sharpen.
|
|
|
Post by ForeverFree on Jun 18, 2023 17:44:39 GMT -5
Reminds me of what we grew up with that it's OK to lie for the sake of the kingdom. They've lied and spread lies around about people who have spoken the truth. The workers have lied and hidden the truth of their beginnings leading people to believe a lie since the beginning. Would many of our ancestors have joined if they'd known it was started by a man. I'd guess not. People were led into a trap by being told this was started by Jesus. This generation is left with trying to clean up the mess. This 'church' was built on a lie. I remember my parents asking the Workers if this Way as an ongoing progression from when Jesus set-up his ministry. They had no definitive answer, but just claimed it was exactly as Jesus instructed in Matthew 10. So in that respect, the Truth was that they were practicing what the bible taught (itinerant Workers sent out in pairs, mtgs in the home, etc). In that sense, they were following what Jesus instructed, so the 'man' who started it was Christ.
They also said that they had no literal generation to generation records of Christ forward, but presumed Mat 10 was followed in close form, likely kept underground during the dark ages, with possible intermediate disruptions.
I've heard this as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2023 17:46:50 GMT -5
A sects power only comes from their followers. Denominations do not need true claims. They do not need to be fare, kind or just.
Corrupt denominations can go on and on for a very long time. Consider how long the Catholic Church has wallowed in corruption, yet it remains.
Thousands of denominations have been born then fade into obscurity.
When the last followers breaks away, the denomination comes to and end.
|
|
|
Post by ForeverFree on Jun 18, 2023 17:49:22 GMT -5
If you remove the foundation stones, how can the building stand? Like a building built on the sand. " And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” The storm is coming, folks!
|
|
|
Post by ForeverFree on Jun 18, 2023 18:11:17 GMT -5
One can only wonder in amazement while reading the flood of posts concerning CSA and other problems with the 2x2 church. And what I have today here is not just limited to the 2x2 church but Christianity as a whole. The reason I throw my pearls before you are because my family had a long tradition of being a part of the 2x2 church. If one didn’t allow their belief system to accept the various Christian teachings, they would be free to join realistically functioning humans and be received into a much larger support system to deal with CSA and other problems. Humanity is a class of beings that continues to update their understanding of reality and how they deal with problems. We no longer burn witches, nor blame women for being assaulted because of how they dress. We no longer practice bloodletting nor using all the barbaric treatments of the past to cure schizophrenia. If one is willing to open their mind to the possibility, they may be wrong and spend time digging deep into research they will find that most everything in the Christian Bible is plagiarized from elsewhere and the New Testament even plagiarized from the Old Testament. We all owe a death, what's waits beyond if anything no one knows. If you can accept this then get on with enjoying your life. I’m no angel but I spend all my spare time coaching youth soccer because I see that is the place I can have the most influence in teaching youth to be a team player, to look out after each other both on and off the pitch and that they also make friends for life playing the beautiful game. I have remained quite so far on this CSA thing. However, over the years I had become aware of many problems within the church, but I was more focused on the big lie rather than the problems contained inside the big lie. So, I see from the forum so many hurting, disappointed, lost, I suggest you come to a youth soccer game at RRSA and watch our youth pursue the beautiful game and for a few hours all your troubles will vanish. Be of good cheer I record this for posterity: There have been sad things happen, cleansing and change is happening. A spring can get polluted but it cleanses itself and continues to spring up from its pure source. Doomsayers and your predictions...... I state a reality that is an uncomfortable truth for you. -People are finding Christ and becoming part of our church these very days. -There is a strong base of young people, young families, young workers who have found and live in Christ and they are the future. There are such middle and old aged friends and workers also. Keep this if you wish, refer if you wish again after 10 years and see how fulfilled the doomsayers (and their cheerleaders hurrahs and 'likes') and predictions are. I will get mocked, scorned, derided and dismissed for this reality and truth that I have posted..... and I don't give a hoot about that! 😜 Here's an uncomfortable truth for you. There are less and less "worldly" people professing all the time. More and more young people raised in the fellowship are leaving it. There are less and less people going "into the work". The strong base of which you speak is weakening fast. That is the reality. There is none so blind as he that can not see.
|
|
|
Post by Pragmatic on Jun 18, 2023 18:39:26 GMT -5
I record this for posterity: There have been sad things happen, cleansing and change is happening. A spring can get polluted but it cleanses itself and continues to spring up from its pure source. Doomsayers and your predictions...... I state a reality that is an uncomfortable truth for you. -People are finding Christ and becoming part of our church these very days. -There is a strong base of young people, young families, young workers who have found and live in Christ and they are the future. There are such middle and old aged friends and workers also. Keep this if you wish, refer if you wish again after 10 years and see how fulfilled the doomsayers (and their cheerleaders hurrahs and 'likes') and predictions are. I will get mocked, scorned, derided and dismissed for this reality and truth that I have posted..... and I don't give a hoot about that! 😜 Here's an uncomfortable truth for you. There are less and less "worldly" people professing all the time. More and more young people raised in the fellowship are leaving it. There are less and less people going "into the work". The strong base of which you speak is weakening fast. That is the reality. There is none so blind as he that can not see. And that is the reality. In our area there used to be two sets of workers, and X number of meetings. Now there is only one set of workers, and a significantly fewer number of Sunday Morning meetings.
A large number of families have kids that have not professed, or in some cases only a small percentage of kids that have professed. Old age and death means the attrition rate has been high in our district, and the regeneration rate is been low, and not made up for the attrition. The number of seats occupied at Special Meetings tells the story compared to a couple of decades ago.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jun 18, 2023 18:49:54 GMT -5
And if by some quirk of fate you are one of the 2x2 who thinks Genesis is a myth then why would you pay any attention to the rest of a book that starts with a myth? You should learn more about how ancient wisdom was recorded in myth form.
|
|
|
Post by fixit on Jun 18, 2023 21:04:44 GMT -5
People are finding Christ and becoming part of our church these very days. Even the most dysfunctional religious organisations say that.
|
|