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Post by sheri01 on Jun 9, 2023 0:07:29 GMT -5
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Post by jonathan on Jun 9, 2023 5:45:26 GMT -5
Do I remember Rob Newman stating unequivocally "that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated."? He acted acceptably when John Vandenberg was asked to step out of the work due to allegations of CSA / inappropriate touching. Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1045550He acted very strongly when Kingsey Stone was removed from the Mountain Ranch convention, based on allegations relating to grooming. In his message, Rob stated unequivocally that Kingsley "will NOT BE IN ANY MORE MEETINGS between now and plane time." He also wrote that they were "doing everything in our power to get him out of the country as soon as possible. That involves interception of his passport from the Canadian embassy. We will put him on a plane as fast as we can. He is awaiting his passport in the LA area and in a home of a single man who knows what we knew before 8:00 last night. I will update our man asap." Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1047191Two instances where we saw strong action. We saw this in the light of his statement that "that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated."? Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1045550We kind of got the idea that he was serious about zero tolerance. That these actions were taken, and also the reason they were taken was a big shock to all. Never have we seen this before. And here comes the real shock. Double standards apply. The Private Investigator Cynthia Liles bemoans the fact that a known pedophile is allowed to attend Casa Grande convention. Link to her email on www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/email-to-rob-newman-from-cynthia-lilesIs grooming more serious than pedophilia? Clearly, o/s's word means nothing. No confidence whatsoever in what he will ever again try to tell us about CSA/SA. After all that has come to light, do the o/s still wade into waters that rather should be left for law enforcement and the professionals to decide? We don't see a humble and sincere understanding of the problem of CSA/SA and the impact it has. We don't see the same sincere and compassionate care for victims as we see they show for perpetrators. Why do they prioritize perpetrators? We're not convinced that the o/s have the heart of a shepherd who lovingly care for the flock and look out for them and keep known dangerous people away. Two brothers have stepped down from the work for alleged messaging that caused women to feel uncomfortable. But another is allowed to continue in the work? Some are frowned upon, and another has a warm welcome back to his country? Is the difference that the former two had their communication in texted messages, while Kingsley's was only vocal? Is the nature of the offence not the same? Communicating in a way that leaves ladies uncomfortable? If it is, then why can the o/s not get their act together and act in a coherent way? Are they aware of the perception that it seems to matter a lot from what staff a worker is? Laws may differ to an extent from country to country, but the second commandment given to Moses applies all the same all over, or does it not? This matter of Kingsley Stone caught my attention straight away, right from the start. Immediately I had some questions, and after all that has been said and done until now, I actually have more questions!
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jane
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by jane on Jun 9, 2023 9:40:07 GMT -5
I sit here and shake my head. I can not understand how these decisions are being made. Why they have any desire to protect those who have done so much harm?
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Post by neighbour on Jun 9, 2023 9:58:20 GMT -5
I sit here and shake my head. I can not understand how these decisions are being made. Why they have any desire to protect those who have done so much harm? To be honest I think the overseers are incapable of making correct decisions on these matters. It's one big giant conflict of interest. Protecting perpetrators is a problem in all types of brotherhoods both religious and secular.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2023 10:01:58 GMT -5
An ancient saying may apply…
“a fish rots from its head down”
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 9, 2023 10:05:28 GMT -5
Do I remember Rob Newman stating unequivocally "that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated."? He acted acceptably when John Vandenberg was asked to step out of the work due to allegations of CSA / inappropriate touching. Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1045550He acted very strongly when Kingsey Stone was removed from the Mountain Ranch convention, based on allegations relating to grooming. In his message, Rob stated unequivocally that Kingsley "will NOT BE IN ANY MORE MEETINGS between now and plane time." He also wrote that they were "doing everything in our power to get him out of the country as soon as possible. That involves interception of his passport from the Canadian embassy. We will put him on a plane as fast as we can. He is awaiting his passport in the LA area and in a home of a single man who knows what we knew before 8:00 last night. I will update our man asap." Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1047191Two instances where we saw strong action. We saw this in the light of his statement that "that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated."? Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1045550We kind of got the idea that he was serious about zero tolerance. That these actions were taken, and also the reason they were taken was a big shock to all. Never have we seen this before. And here comes the real shock. Double standards apply. The Private Investigator Cynthia Liles bemoans the fact that a known pedophile is allowed to attend Casa Grande convention. Link to her email on www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/email-to-rob-newman-from-cynthia-lilesIs grooming more serious than pedophilia? Clearly, o/s's word means nothing. No confidence whatsoever in what he will ever again try to tell us about CSA/SA. After all that has come to light, do the o/s still wade into waters that rather should be left for law enforcement and the professionals to decide? We don't see a humble and sincere understanding of the problem of CSA/SA and the impact it has. We don't see the same sincere and compassionate care for victims as we see they show for perpetrators. Why do they prioritize perpetrators? We're not convinced that the o/s have the heart of a shepherd who lovingly care for the flock and look out for them and keep known dangerous people away. Two brothers have stepped down from the work for alleged messaging that caused women to feel uncomfortable. But another is allowed to continue in the work? Some are frowned upon, and another has a warm welcome back to his country? Is the difference that the former two had their communication in texted messages, while Kingsley's was only vocal? Is the nature of the offence not the same? Communicating in a way that leaves ladies uncomfortable? If it is, then why can the o/s not get their act together and act in a coherent way? Are they aware of the perception that it seems to matter a lot from what staff a worker is? Laws may differ to an extent from country to country, but the second commandment given to Moses applies all the same all over, or does it not? This matter of Kingsley Stone caught my attention straight away, right from the start. Immediately I had some questions, and after all that has been said and done until now, I actually have more questions! Jonathan A question for you with respect to this post you have made about your fellow worker and brother in Christ Rob Newman. Have you done and followed what Jesus taught? Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
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jwatt
Junior Member
Posts: 191
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Post by jwatt on Jun 9, 2023 13:59:48 GMT -5
The workers and overseers just aren't interested in doing anything to save all those victims but seem to be doing their best to continue as usual and sweep it all under the carpet. So it continues. So pleased I'm no longer in this cult but really feel sad and angry that this is happening to something I was brought up in.
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 9, 2023 15:58:54 GMT -5
I sit here and shake my head. I can not understand how these decisions are being made. Why they have any desire to protect those who have done so much harm? I would bet a lot of money that Rob is finally listening to a lawyer's advice. There are certainly lots of knowledgeable friends in California, and at least one ex-attorney in the work who have probably been begging and pleading for him to lawyer-up for the past 3 months. Now it will probably take another 3 months for the lawyer to convince him that he needs a professional PR manager. He might be interviewing that PR manager on the phone looking through a plexiglass window.
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Post by fixit on Jun 9, 2023 17:37:14 GMT -5
Do I remember Rob Newman stating unequivocally "that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated."? He acted acceptably when John Vandenberg was asked to step out of the work due to allegations of CSA / inappropriate touching. Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1045550He acted very strongly when Kingsey Stone was removed from the Mountain Ranch convention, based on allegations relating to grooming. In his message, Rob stated unequivocally that Kingsley "will NOT BE IN ANY MORE MEETINGS between now and plane time." He also wrote that they were "doing everything in our power to get him out of the country as soon as possible. That involves interception of his passport from the Canadian embassy. We will put him on a plane as fast as we can. He is awaiting his passport in the LA area and in a home of a single man who knows what we knew before 8:00 last night. I will update our man asap." Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1047191Two instances where we saw strong action. We saw this in the light of his statement that "that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated."? Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1045550We kind of got the idea that he was serious about zero tolerance. That these actions were taken, and also the reason they were taken was a big shock to all. Never have we seen this before. And here comes the real shock. Double standards apply. The Private Investigator Cynthia Liles bemoans the fact that a known pedophile is allowed to attend Casa Grande convention. Link to her email on www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/email-to-rob-newman-from-cynthia-lilesIs grooming more serious than pedophilia? Clearly, o/s's word means nothing. No confidence whatsoever in what he will ever again try to tell us about CSA/SA. After all that has come to light, do the o/s still wade into waters that rather should be left for law enforcement and the professionals to decide? We don't see a humble and sincere understanding of the problem of CSA/SA and the impact it has. We don't see the same sincere and compassionate care for victims as we see they show for perpetrators. Why do they prioritize perpetrators? We're not convinced that the o/s have the heart of a shepherd who lovingly care for the flock and look out for them and keep known dangerous people away. Two brothers have stepped down from the work for alleged messaging that caused women to feel uncomfortable. But another is allowed to continue in the work? Some are frowned upon, and another has a warm welcome back to his country? Is the difference that the former two had their communication in texted messages, while Kingsley's was only vocal? Is the nature of the offence not the same? Communicating in a way that leaves ladies uncomfortable? If it is, then why can the o/s not get their act together and act in a coherent way? Are they aware of the perception that it seems to matter a lot from what staff a worker is? Laws may differ to an extent from country to country, but the second commandment given to Moses applies all the same all over, or does it not? This matter of Kingsley Stone caught my attention straight away, right from the start. Immediately I had some questions, and after all that has been said and done until now, I actually have more questions! Jonathan A question for you with respect to this post you have made about your fellow worker and brother in Christ Rob Newman. Have you done and followed what Jesus taught? Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Does Matthew 18 apply to you as well? You have made a lot of derogatory comments about me over the years yet you turned down the offer of a coffee date with me.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 9, 2023 19:29:54 GMT -5
Jonathan A question for you with respect to this post you have made about your fellow worker and brother in Christ Rob Newman. Have you done and followed what Jesus taught? Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Does Matthew 18 apply to you as well? You have made a lot of derogatory comments about me over the years yet you turned down the offer of a coffee date with me. Have a coffee.... to hear more as you post on TMB? Look in the mirror / or notice in which direction your three other fingers point ,regarding 'derogatory comments'.
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Post by fixit on Jun 9, 2023 19:34:59 GMT -5
Does Matthew 18 apply to you as well? You have made a lot of derogatory comments about me over the years yet you turned down the offer of a coffee date with me. Have a coffee.... to hear more as you post on TMB? Look in the mirror and where your three other fingers point regarding derogatory comments. No no...just to discuss your concerns about me Matthew 18-style.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 9, 2023 19:43:41 GMT -5
Have a coffee.... to hear more as you post on TMB? Look in the mirror and where your three other fingers point regarding derogatory comments. No no...just to discuss your concerns about me Matthew 18-style. I made the decision recently to ignore/not concern myself further about what you post on TMB. If you wish for further communication with me you are welcome to contact me by pm!
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Post by fixit on Jun 9, 2023 19:46:33 GMT -5
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 9, 2023 19:47:59 GMT -5
Jonathan so far has no response to:"
Jonathan A question for you with respect to this post you have made about your fellow worker and brother in Christ Rob Newman. Have you done and followed what Jesus taught? Matthew 18:15
“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
What could he (not fixit) say anyway?
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Post by fixit on Jun 9, 2023 20:05:32 GMT -5
No no...just to discuss your concerns about me Matthew 18-style. I made the decision recently to ignore/not concern myself further about what you post on TMB. If you wish for further communication with me you are welcome to contact me by pm! It seems that Matthew 18 applies to Jonathan, but not to you. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Post by dsmith on Jun 9, 2023 22:57:09 GMT -5
Yes there always seems to be one set of rules for some and another set of rules for others. Absolutely disgusted with this church and all that is being revealed of late. My mother would be turning in her grave and I hope my father never hears of this - he would be in tears 😪
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 10, 2023 1:09:30 GMT -5
I made the decision recently to ignore/not concern myself further about what you post on TMB. If you wish for further communication with me you are welcome to contact me by pm! It seems that Matthew 18 applies to Jonathan, but not to you. Thanks for clearing that up. Yes that is how it seems to you fixit. I've mentioned what to do if that is 'how it seems to you'. But you are not interested in that. This remains: Jonathan A question for you with respect to this post you have made about your fellow worker and brother in Christ Rob Newman. Have you done and followed what Jesus taught? Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
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Post by fixit on Jun 10, 2023 1:22:33 GMT -5
Yes there always seems to be one set of rules for some and another set of rules for others. Absolutely disgusted with this church and all that is being revealed of late. My mother would be turning in her grave and I hope my father never hears of this - he would be in tears 😪 There remains a lot of good people in the fellowship. Unfortunately we've been taught that the organisation is God's kingdom, but we should have been taught that God's kingdom is in the hearts of the followers of Jesus. The other main error is related to that....we've been taught that even deep conviction before God should be put aside in order to obey the men who have set themselves up as kings and princes.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 10, 2023 2:41:37 GMT -5
Yes there always seems to be one set of rules for some and another set of rules for others. Absolutely disgusted with this church and all that is being revealed of late. My mother would be turning in her grave and I hope my father never hears of this - he would be in tears 😪 There remains a lot of good people in the fellowship. Unfortunately we've been taught that the organisation is God's kingdom, but we should have been taught that God's kingdom is in the hearts of the followers of Jesus. The other main error is related to that....we've been taught that even deep conviction before God should be put aside in order to obey the men who have set themselves up as kings and princes. You have stated your experience and perception. It is not my experience or perception. As I have stated: "I made the decision recently to ignore/not concern myself further about what you post on TMB. If you wish for further communication with me you are welcome to contact me by pm."
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Post by dsmith on Jun 10, 2023 2:59:18 GMT -5
Jesus said he is the Way and the Truth. It is not up for discussion. It can never be anything to do with man as even the best of us fall short. I cringe when people call us the Way and the Truth. It is Christ not a church. God must look down on this group of people who call themselves his people and weep.
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Post by fixit on Jun 10, 2023 3:21:44 GMT -5
There remains a lot of good people in the fellowship. Unfortunately we've been taught that the organisation is God's kingdom, but we should have been taught that God's kingdom is in the hearts of the followers of Jesus. The other main error is related to that....we've been taught that even deep conviction before God should be put aside in order to obey the men who have set themselves up as kings and princes. You have stated your experience and perception. It is not my experience or perception. As I have stated: "I made the decision recently to ignore/not concern myself further about what you post on TMB. If you wish for further communication with me you are welcome to contact me by pm."
I wasn't replying to any post of yours. You butted in, Your Excellency. As a mere mortal I won't presume to approach you by pm.
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Post by fixit on Jun 10, 2023 15:20:27 GMT -5
From: psychcentral.com/pro/recovery-expert/2020/06/creating-scapegoats-in-the-workplace#1The leader usually picks on someone very independent; usually the type of person who beats to their own drum beat, and is very much oblivious to being a rule-follower, and tends to be guileless in nature. Dysfunctional leaders with a need to have power are inclined to absolutely hate these people. The reason is because controllers often hate those they cannot control. A scapegoat tends to think of him or herself as an equal to the leader, and usually just assumes the leader feels or believes the same. Wrong. A supervisor in need of power and control will take great strides to ensure this unworthy subject is put in his/her place. Dysfunctional leaders often have huge egos to massage. Victims of workplace scapegoating are frequently unwilling to massage anyones ego; and, honestly, are usually oblivious to the need for catering to someone in that manner.
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Post by snow on Jun 10, 2023 19:01:01 GMT -5
It seems that Matthew 18 applies to Jonathan, but not to you. Thanks for clearing that up. Yes that is how it seems to you fixit. I've mentioned what to do if that is 'how it seems to you'. But you are not interested in that. This remains: Jonathan A question for you with respect to this post you have made about your fellow worker and brother in Christ Rob Newman. Have you done and followed what Jesus taught? Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. So according to Matt 18 you really have to have coffee with fixit because you just never know how it might go and the bible states that you must. Most of the time when people get together face to face they have good talks. You should give it a chance?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jun 10, 2023 19:46:16 GMT -5
It seems that Matthew 18 applies to Jonathan, but not to you. Thanks for clearing that up. Yes that is how it seems to you fixit. I've mentioned what to do if that is 'how it seems to you'. But you are not interested in that. This remains: Jonathan A question for you with respect to this post you have made about your fellow worker and brother in Christ Rob Newman. Have you done and followed what Jesus taught? Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins trespass against thee, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Matthew 18:15 King James Version 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee. If it doesn't involve you, it's not your business.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 11, 2023 4:30:00 GMT -5
Do I remember Rob Newman stating unequivocally "that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated."? He acted acceptably when John Vandenberg was asked to step out of the work due to allegations of CSA / inappropriate touching. Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1045550He acted very strongly when Kingsey Stone was removed from the Mountain Ranch convention, based on allegations relating to grooming. In his message, Rob stated unequivocally that Kingsley "will NOT BE IN ANY MORE MEETINGS between now and plane time." He also wrote that they were "doing everything in our power to get him out of the country as soon as possible. That involves interception of his passport from the Canadian embassy. We will put him on a plane as fast as we can. He is awaiting his passport in the LA area and in a home of a single man who knows what we knew before 8:00 last night. I will update our man asap." Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1047191Two instances where we saw strong action. We saw this in the light of his statement that "that sexual abuse in the ministry and the betrayal of trust it represents, will not be tolerated."? Link to this post professing.proboards.com/post/1045550We kind of got the idea that he was serious about zero tolerance. That these actions were taken, and also the reason they were taken was a big shock to all. Never have we seen this before. And here comes the real shock. Double standards apply. The Private Investigator Cynthia Liles bemoans the fact that a known pedophile is allowed to attend Casa Grande convention. Link to her email on www.advocatesforthetruth.com/updates/email-to-rob-newman-from-cynthia-lilesIs grooming more serious than pedophilia? Clearly, o/s's word means nothing. No confidence whatsoever in what he will ever again try to tell us about CSA/SA. After all that has come to light, do the o/s still wade into waters that rather should be left for law enforcement and the professionals to decide? We don't see a humble and sincere understanding of the problem of CSA/SA and the impact it has. We don't see the same sincere and compassionate care for victims as we see they show for perpetrators. Why do they prioritize perpetrators? We're not convinced that the o/s have the heart of a shepherd who lovingly care for the flock and look out for them and keep known dangerous people away. Two brothers have stepped down from the work for alleged messaging that caused women to feel uncomfortable. But another is allowed to continue in the work? Some are frowned upon, and another has a warm welcome back to his country? Is the difference that the former two had their communication in texted messages, while Kingsley's was only vocal? Is the nature of the offence not the same? Communicating in a way that leaves ladies uncomfortable? If it is, then why can the o/s not get their act together and act in a coherent way? Are they aware of the perception that it seems to matter a lot from what staff a worker is? Laws may differ to an extent from country to country, but the second commandment given to Moses applies all the same all over, or does it not? This matter of Kingsley Stone caught my attention straight away, right from the start. Immediately I had some questions, and after all that has been said and done until now, I actually have more questions! Jonathan A question for you with respect to this post you have made about your fellow worker and brother in Christ Rob Newman. Have you done and followed what Jesus taught? Matthew 18:15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. What a dumb question. This is not about "a fault" but an issue that others are handling, and he is commenting on it, in a public forum. I don't think Jesus knew much about this type of platform when he uttered these words.
We also do not know the hierarchical situation that may or may not prevent him from doing so, any power imbalance, or the logistics of doing so.
I think you are out of line in posting this, and are in fact trying once again, to deflect from the real issue, by trying to get Jonathan to start arguing up side-roads. If Jonathan is as smart as I think he is, he will ignore you.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 11, 2023 14:21:57 GMT -5
pragmatic, you write about how 'smart' you think Jonathan is. I think of integrity and the right way of doing things:
That Jonathan would have had the courage of his convictions and integrity would have lead him to first raise his concerns with his fellow worker Rob Newman. If Rob ignored him/didn't answer/ 'shunned' him or if Jonathan was not satisfied with the response he got from his fellow worker Rob Newman and he then posted about that here I would then be supportive of Jonathan.
I know already of the excuses you and others will come up with for negating and dismissing what I state. Bring them on if you wish, you'll feel justified and 'better' in doing so.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 11, 2023 14:42:39 GMT -5
pragmatic, you write about how 'smart' you think Jonathan is. I think of integrity and the right way of doing things: That Jonathan would have had the courage of his convictions and integrity would have lead him to first raise his concerns with his fellow worker Rob Newman. If Rob ignored him/didn't answer/ 'shunned' him or if Jonathan was not satisfied with the response he got from his fellow worker Rob Newman and he then posted about that here I would then be supportive of Jonathan. I know already of the excuses you and others will come up with for negating and dismissing what I state. Bring them on if you wish, you'll feel justified and 'better' in doing so. You don't know that he may or may not have done that. It's not up to you to dictate what he should or should not do in his own country.
If someone was guilty of murder, and an overseer knew about it, I assume you'd also be dumb enough to think that Matthew 18 would apply, rather than the overseer going to the authorities. If so, you need help.
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Post by internationalstudies on Jun 11, 2023 14:59:03 GMT -5
pragmatic, you write about how 'smart' you think Jonathan is. I think of integrity and the right way of doing things: That Jonathan would have had the courage of his convictions and integrity would have lead him to first raise his concerns with his fellow worker Rob Newman. If Rob ignored him/didn't answer/ 'shunned' him or if Jonathan was not satisfied with the response he got from his fellow worker Rob Newman and he then posted about that here I would then be supportive of Jonathan. I know already of the excuses you and others will come up with for negating and dismissing what I state. Bring them on if you wish, you'll feel justified and 'better' in doing so. You don't know that he may or may not have done that. It's not up to you to dictate what he should or should not do in his own country.
If someone was guilty of murder, and an overseer knew about it, I assume you'd also be dumb enough to think that Matthew 18 would apply, rather than the overseer going to the authorities. If so, you need help.
pragmatic Your response to what I state: To call me dumb, suggest I might need help and wrongly insinuate that I consider CSA any less criminal that murder. 🤷♂️
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