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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 11, 2023 13:47:47 GMT -5
Of course, Snow. The best light is what comes from our spirit. And when people are around us for a time,that is when the Spirit can shine to others. I was just referring to when it is just a quick moment in time. I have been stopped in walmart by customers and by a cashier wondering about my beliefs. Nothing came of those interactions, but nonetheless, it is women that have the burden and the privilege of looking different, which brings possible interactions with someone who has no other connection. (Of course, I am speaking as someone who goes to meeting and who would like to invite people to meeting. I know some on here think we shouldn't exist, so you will have to just ignore some of my comments here.) The great misconception that has happened is that if you stick people into the professing mold and then put them in meeting that a child of God will come out. Of course, we now know that doesn't work. Instead you end up with a lot of bitter and disillusioned people that think we are all about rules and conforming. However, some of us aren't doing what we are doing to conform, it is coming from within. It is better to let people be as they will be and let the Spirit work on the inside and see what happens. So this is only my feeling that I have come to after a lot of years of praying about it. I WANT people to ask me questions now, and I probably won't get that in these quick interactions if I look like every other woman out there, and yes, I want the people I am around every day to see what is coming forth from my life as identifying me as a follower of Jesus. Hope that makes sense. I am not feeling like the outside is more important than the inside. Definitely not! It is the inside that matters, only the inside, as far as my relationship with God, but in being a light to the world, the outside has a little bit of importance, only a little. It is not the focus! Thank you for your answer. I do see that dressing different might attract someone to ask you questions about what religion you belong to. That makes sense. What I wonder is this. Do you think that people will be attracted to become part of your group if they have to dress that way? Many people that have 'the right spirit' still don't want to dress the way the sister workers dress, although I do know that it has changed somewhat then when I was still in the group. Also, why is it only the woman's job to look different? Why can't the men have some kind of identifying dress code like orthodox jews have for example. Or the Amish, Mennonite etc. Why do the 2x2 men get to dress like every man in the 'world' and not attract attention to themselves like the women are expected to? Surely it shouldn't be just the women? There are many things that could be done in the dress of men that would also make them stand out? The 2x2s are controlled by a group of misogynistic men. Ephesians 5:22-24 and 1 Peter 3:1 (women submit unto your husbands) are like the golden rule for the overseers and older brother workers. The sister workers are in the same boat as the wives. They have to submit to the brothers. They have no say or opinion in the goings on in the church. When has there ever been a sister overseer?
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Post by guest8 on Jun 11, 2023 15:41:38 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer. I do see that dressing different might attract someone to ask you questions about what religion you belong to. That makes sense. What I wonder is this. Do you think that people will be attracted to become part of your group if they have to dress that way? Many people that have 'the right spirit' still don't want to dress the way the sister workers dress, although I do know that it has changed somewhat then when I was still in the group. Also, why is it only the woman's job to look different? Why can't the men have some kind of identifying dress code like orthodox jews have for example. Or the Amish, Mennonite etc. Why do the 2x2 men get to dress like every man in the 'world' and not attract attention to themselves like the women are expected to? Surely it shouldn't be just the women? There are many things that could be done in the dress of men that would also make them stand out? The 2x2s are controlled by a group of misogynistic men. Ephesians 5:22-24 and 1 Peter 3:1 (women submit unto your husbands) are like the golden rule for the overseers and older brother workers. The sister workers are in the same boat as the wives. They have to submit to the brothers. They have no say or opinion in the goings on in the church. When has there ever been a sister overseer? Yes it certainly is not a balanced approach. But, out of interest re Canadian friends, recently I listened to a Canadian funeral. I noticed, a senior woman preacher took the service, with an obvious senior male preacher beside her ( probably an overseer). I was most impressed with this lovely woman. She (JS) speaks humbly & eloquently from the heart, very respectful of grieving family and friends; I would say her priority in speaking. So this was evidence to me, to be fair, some are endeavouring to make changes.
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Post by snow on Jun 11, 2023 15:42:07 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer. I do see that dressing different might attract someone to ask you questions about what religion you belong to. That makes sense. What I wonder is this. Do you think that people will be attracted to become part of your group if they have to dress that way? Many people that have 'the right spirit' still don't want to dress the way the sister workers dress, although I do know that it has changed somewhat then when I was still in the group. Also, why is it only the woman's job to look different? Why can't the men have some kind of identifying dress code like orthodox jews have for example. Or the Amish, Mennonite etc. Why do the 2x2 men get to dress like every man in the 'world' and not attract attention to themselves like the women are expected to? Surely it shouldn't be just the women? There are many things that could be done in the dress of men that would also make them stand out? The 2x2s are controlled by a group of misogynistic men. Ephesians 5:22-24 and 1 Peter 3:1 (women submit unto your husbands) are like the golden rule for the overseers and older brother workers. The sister workers are in the same boat as the wives. They have to submit to the brothers. They have no say or opinion in the goings on in the church. When has there ever been a sister overseer? Yes the bible is patriarchal of course so anyone that wants to be dominant over a woman has justification in their sacred book. The women in patriarchal societies have always been the workhorse that does not have final say.
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Post by snow on Jun 11, 2023 15:46:14 GMT -5
The 2x2s are controlled by a group of misogynistic men. Ephesians 5:22-24 and 1 Peter 3:1 (women submit unto your husbands) are like the golden rule for the overseers and older brother workers. The sister workers are in the same boat as the wives. They have to submit to the brothers. They have no say or opinion in the goings on in the church. When has there ever been a sister overseer? Yes it certainly is not a balanced approach. But, out of interest re Canadian friends, recently I listened to a couple of Canadian funerals. I noticed, a senior woman preacher took the service, with an obvious senior male preacher beside her ( probably an overseer). I was most impressed with this lovely woman. She (JS) speaks humbly & beautifully from the heart, very respectful of grieving family and friends; I would say her priority. So this was evidence to me, that some are endeavouring to make changes. A senior woman worker took my mother's funeral but the male worker was a younger brother worker. The day a female overseer is in place I will acknowledge that they have changed. From what our resident ex worker used to tell us sister workers are valued and asked for advice, but they don't have final say. Like a wife as foreverfree2 states, women must be submissive to their husbands and sister workers have to be submissive to the brother workers no matter their age unfortunately. Letting them take a funeral, how nice. Like a husband allowing the wife to do something on her own. Therein lies the difference. They allowed it.
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 11, 2023 16:03:33 GMT -5
I've been told that the friends who are women have to wear their hair in a bun, and wear certain clothes. Actually that is not really right- they certainly don't have to wear buns! In Aust & NZ I have seen many older women out and about with their hair down or in ponytails and wearing pants, excersise gear or clothes suitable for what ever they are doing and no one seems to worry. I was at a couple of 'friendly'weddings 2 years ago and the young girls particularly looked like they stepped out of fashion magazines. They made the 'wordly' wedding I also attended look like frump palace!! There is a new generation. Jesus said he would have to separate the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares, the worldly dressers from those who uphold the standard of the kingdom Finding a few rebels prove a nothing.
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 11, 2023 16:19:49 GMT -5
Speaking of funerals; you can often tell how valued a deceased friend was to the church by how high up the hierarchy the workers are that are holding the service. Family names and finances tell quite the tale.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2023 16:31:16 GMT -5
Speaking of funerals; you can often tell how valued a deceased friend was to the church by how high up the hierarchy the workers are that are holding the service. Family names and finances tell quite the tale. Or which workers are free at that time.
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Post by ForeverFree on Jun 11, 2023 18:56:53 GMT -5
Speaking of funerals; you can often tell how valued a deceased friend was to the church by how high up the hierarchy the workers are that are holding the service. Family names and finances tell quite the tale. Or which workers are free at that time. I've seen the overseers and/or those close to the top change plans and drive for hours to give the service at a funeral of one who had a well known 2x2 family name and/or a decent bank account.
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janj
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Post by janj on Jun 11, 2023 19:49:00 GMT -5
I've been told that the friends who are women have to wear their hair in a bun, and wear certain clothes. Actually that is not really right- they certainly don't have to wear buns! In Aust & NZ I have seen many older women out and about with their hair down or in ponytails and wearing pants, excersise gear or clothes suitable for what ever they are doing and no one seems to worry. I was at a couple of 'friendly'weddings 2 years ago and the young girls particularly looked like they stepped out of fashion magazines. They made the 'wordly' wedding I also attended look like frump palace!! There is a new generation. Jesus said he would have to separate the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares, the worldly dressers from those who uphold the standard of the kingdom Finding a few rebels prove a nothing. And what is 'the standard of the kingdom' according to scripture. It is certainly not putting your hair in a bun and wearing a long skirt. Modesty is all that is spoken about in the new testament. The standard of the kingdom is love, love that you show to God and to others. You may be dissapointed if you think separating the sheep from the goats is going to be done by God casting his eye over a women's clothing!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2023 19:55:03 GMT -5
Speaking of funerals; you can often tell how valued a deceased friend was to the church by how high up the hierarchy the workers are that are holding the service. Family names and finances tell quite the tale. Speculative...
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 11, 2023 19:59:55 GMT -5
Jesus said he would have to separate the sheep from the goats, the wheat from the tares, the worldly dressers from those who uphold the standard of the kingdom Finding a few rebels prove a nothing. And what is 'the standard of the kingdom' according to scripture. It is certainly not putting your hair in a bun and wearing a long skirt. Modesty is all that is spoken about in the new testament. The standard of the kingdom is love, love that you show to God and to others. You may be dissapointed if you think separating the sheep from the goats is going to be done by God casting his eye over a women's clothing!! The workers have spent 120 years praying about this rather than working jobs. I think they know better than you.
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janj
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Post by janj on Jun 11, 2023 20:02:16 GMT -5
And what is 'the standard of the kingdom' according to scripture. It is certainly not putting your hair in a bun and wearing a long skirt. Modesty is all that is spoken about in the new testament. The standard of the kingdom is love, love that you show to God and to others. You may be dissapointed if you think separating the sheep from the goats is going to be done by God casting his eye over a women's clothing!! The workers have spent 120 years praying about this rather than working jobs. I think they know better than you. 🤣🤣
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2023 21:56:05 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer. I do see that dressing different might attract someone to ask you questions about what religion you belong to. That makes sense. What I wonder is this. Do you think that people will be attracted to become part of your group if they have to dress that way? Many people that have 'the right spirit' still don't want to dress the way the sister workers dress, although I do know that it has changed somewhat then when I was still in the group. Also, why is it only the woman's job to look different? Why can't the men have some kind of identifying dress code like orthodox jews have for example. Or the Amish, Mennonite etc. Why do the 2x2 men get to dress like every man in the 'world' and not attract attention to themselves like the women are expected to? Surely it shouldn't be just the women? There are many things that could be done in the dress of men that would also make them stand out? Well, I guess that is up to them. Usually when people ask me questions when I am out and about, it is people who notice, and maybe appreciate the modest appearance. A coworker and I (she in her late 80s and those really old fashioned dresses from the 1980s) were in a fast food restaurant, and a man stopped by our table to tell us how nice we looked. That doesn't give me an ego because I know I am nothing special to look at, but it seems it was either our outward appearance or our spirit he saw, and he seemed to have an appreciation for what he saw... modesty? Not sure just what it was. But these interactions are very few. The majority of people who come in touch with us are through our friends who are in the community either coworkers, neighbors, friends, family, even some kids at school. In those relationships it is definitely the Spirit that attracts them. So the inward is the focus, and the outward will be a by product of the inward work. Regarding women having more of a burden than men regarding the appearance, it is because we represent the bride. Men are also to be modest, but that just looks different for men than women. It is a woman's particular struggle to be vain and to want to make herself beautiful. But the beauty that we should focus on is the inward beauty, not the outward. Yes, women do have this burden. But men are to represent Christ, so that is quite a burden in society, also, right? Jesus said "I am meek and lowly of heart." Pride and stubbornness is a man's particular struggle. He shouldn't be trying to be a big man and make a name for himself but to be meek and lowly. And Christ gave Himself for the church, so that is how men shloud treat women. We each have our own burden and struggle.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2023 22:23:10 GMT -5
I just wanted to say one more thing. I know you and others are non believers. I respect your choice. I am not trying to convince you or to make it seem like I think you are wrong. But just to peel back my skull and let you peer inside my brain for a little bit. I am glad to do the same for you, listen to your thoughts. I appreciate your kind, gentle way, and I highly respect you for your curiosity and kindness. I aspire to be as kind as you.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 11, 2023 23:44:56 GMT -5
Speaking of funerals; you can often tell how valued a deceased friend was to the church by how high up the hierarchy the workers are that are holding the service. Family names and finances tell quite the tale. I have seen that too, not lately, but it has happened
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 11:00:39 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer. I do see that dressing different might attract someone to ask you questions about what religion you belong to. That makes sense. What I wonder is this. Do you think that people will be attracted to become part of your group if they have to dress that way? Many people that have 'the right spirit' still don't want to dress the way the sister workers dress, although I do know that it has changed somewhat then when I was still in the group. Also, why is it only the woman's job to look different? Why can't the men have some kind of identifying dress code like orthodox jews have for example. Or the Amish, Mennonite etc. Why do the 2x2 men get to dress like every man in the 'world' and not attract attention to themselves like the women are expected to? Surely it shouldn't be just the women? There are many things that could be done in the dress of men that would also make them stand out? Well, I guess that is up to them. Usually when people ask me questions when I am out and about, it is people who notice, and maybe appreciate the modest appearance. A coworker and I (she in her late 80s and those really old fashioned dresses from the 1980s) were in a fast food restaurant, and a man stopped by our table to tell us how nice we looked. That doesn't give me an ego because I know I am nothing special to look at, but it seems it was either our outward appearance or our spirit he saw, and he seemed to have an appreciation for what he saw... modesty? Not sure just what it was. But these interactions are very few. The majority of people who come in touch with us are through our friends who are in the community either coworkers, neighbors, friends, family, even some kids at school. In those relationships it is definitely the Spirit that attracts them. So the inward is the focus, and the outward will be a by product of the inward work. Regarding women having more of a burden than men regarding the appearance, it is because we represent the bride. Men are also to be modest, but that just looks different for men than women. It is a woman's particular struggle to be vain and to want to make herself beautiful. But the beauty that we should focus on is the inward beauty, not the outward. Yes, women do have this burden. But men are to represent Christ, so that is quite a burden in society, also, right? Jesus said "I am meek and lowly of heart." Pride and stubbornness is a man's particular struggle. He shouldn't be trying to be a big man and make a name for himself but to be meek and lowly. And Christ gave Himself for the church, so that is how men shloud treat women. We each have our own burden and struggle. Spot on sister...
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Post by snow on Jun 12, 2023 13:19:36 GMT -5
Thank you for your answer. I do see that dressing different might attract someone to ask you questions about what religion you belong to. That makes sense. What I wonder is this. Do you think that people will be attracted to become part of your group if they have to dress that way? Many people that have 'the right spirit' still don't want to dress the way the sister workers dress, although I do know that it has changed somewhat then when I was still in the group. Also, why is it only the woman's job to look different? Why can't the men have some kind of identifying dress code like orthodox jews have for example. Or the Amish, Mennonite etc. Why do the 2x2 men get to dress like every man in the 'world' and not attract attention to themselves like the women are expected to? Surely it shouldn't be just the women? There are many things that could be done in the dress of men that would also make them stand out? Well, I guess that is up to them. Usually when people ask me questions when I am out and about, it is people who notice, and maybe appreciate the modest appearance. A coworker and I (she in her late 80s and those really old fashioned dresses from the 1980s) were in a fast food restaurant, and a man stopped by our table to tell us how nice we looked. That doesn't give me an ego because I know I am nothing special to look at, but it seems it was either our outward appearance or our spirit he saw, and he seemed to have an appreciation for what he saw... modesty? Not sure just what it was. But these interactions are very few. The majority of people who come in touch with us are through our friends who are in the community either coworkers, neighbors, friends, family, even some kids at school. In those relationships it is definitely the Spirit that attracts them. So the inward is the focus, and the outward will be a by product of the inward work. Regarding women having more of a burden than men regarding the appearance, it is because we represent the bride. Men are also to be modest, but that just looks different for men than women. It is a woman's particular struggle to be vain and to want to make herself beautiful. But the beauty that we should focus on is the inward beauty, not the outward. Yes, women do have this burden. But men are to represent Christ, so that is quite a burden in society, also, right? Jesus said "I am meek and lowly of heart." Pride and stubbornness is a man's particular struggle. He shouldn't be trying to be a big man and make a name for himself but to be meek and lowly. And Christ gave Himself for the church, so that is how men shloud treat women. We each have our own burden and struggle. I understand that you think that the way you dress is important. I don't think women should have to dress any way in particular. But that's just me. I see a double standard in the way the women in your group have to dress and the way the men dress. Especially if you believe that how you dress can draw people to ask about your beliefs. It then should be imperative that men also do something outwardly to draw these questions. So that's how I see it anyway.
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Post by snow on Jun 12, 2023 13:23:36 GMT -5
I just wanted to say one more thing. I know you and others are non believers. I respect your choice. I am not trying to convince you or to make it seem like I think you are wrong. But just to peel back my skull and let you peer inside my brain for a little bit. I am glad to do the same for you, listen to your thoughts. I appreciate your kind, gentle way, and I highly respect you for your curiosity and kindness. I aspire to be as kind as you. I like having conversations with those who believe differently than I do. I am glad that you don't mind my questions. It's good to have respectful conversations. It's how we learn and grow. It also helps me immensely to know different mindsets so that I can be more knowledgeable and therefore more tolerant of mindsets that are different from my own. I draw the line at criminal mindsets for obvious reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 13:37:41 GMT -5
I understand that you think that the way you dress is important. I don't think women should have to dress any way in particular. But that's just me. I see a double standard in the way the women in your group have to dress and the way the men dress. Especially if you believe that how you dress can draw people to ask about your beliefs. It then should be imperative that men also do something outwardly to draw these questions. So that's how I see it anyway. Well, in our society, the way that men dress doesn't draw a lot of attention because men don't have that many differences in the way they can dress. They don't wear t-shirts with death metal bands with their trousers hanging down, they keep their hair trimmed and don't have piercings, so there are some differences. In Victorian days, would the women have looked that different? When in society everyone looks very similar, there won't be so many differences. It is just that as society has changed, modest dress for women has become so noticeable. So looking different is not actually the point. Modesty is. And it just so happens that looking different can have a benefit. But this is not the purpose of why we dress the way we do. It is because modesty is our guideline. Hope I didn't make it confusing by my earlier post about looking different. It is not just to look different but because modesty is so different to today's dress for women. I actually have nothing specific against pants. There is nothing that says we can't wear pants. But I will not be wearing pants that curve around my backside. So then you can only wear very loose pants. I don't think one person should dictate it for another. They should do what they feel right doing, as a godly woman, while also thinking about others looking on. This would be best if each person made their own choices and weren't judged or ostracized. However I think those old workers and friends thought they were helping, but it doesn't help. Sorry that I confused the issue.
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Post by snow on Jun 12, 2023 14:11:03 GMT -5
I understand that you think that the way you dress is important. I don't think women should have to dress any way in particular. But that's just me. I see a double standard in the way the women in your group have to dress and the way the men dress. Especially if you believe that how you dress can draw people to ask about your beliefs. It then should be imperative that men also do something outwardly to draw these questions. So that's how I see it anyway. Well, in our society, the way that men dress doesn't draw a lot of attention because men don't have that many differences in the way they can dress. They don't wear t-shirts with death metal bands with their trousers hanging down, they keep their hair trimmed and don't have piercings, so there are some differences. In Victorian days, would the women have looked that different? When in society everyone looks very similar, there won't be so many differences. It is just that as society has changed, modest dress for women has become so noticeable. So looking different is not actually the point. Modesty is. And it just so happens that looking different can have a benefit. But this is not the purpose of why we dress the way we do. It is because modesty is our guideline. Hope I didn't make it confusing by my earlier post about looking different. It is not just to look different but because modesty is so different to today's dress for women. I actually have nothing specific against pants. There is nothing that says we can't wear pants. But I will not be wearing pants that curve around my backside. So then you can only wear very loose pants. I don't think one person should dictate it for another. They should do what they feel right doing, as a godly woman, while also thinking about others looking on. This would be best if each person made their own choices and weren't judged or ostracized. However I think those old workers and friends thought they were helping, but it doesn't help. Sorry that I confused the issue. That's my thought also. It shouldn't be dictated and the workers shouldn't be kicking people out that don't conform. That has happened. I have never liked wearing a dress. When I was young we had to wear them to school no matter how cold it was and I hate cold lol... I grew up in a beach community so I was in shorts and a top and bathing suit most of the summer. Sun dresses were also what I wore over my bathing suit. It all depends on the culture and climate imo. For the most part I choose to dress modestly, but pants are my choice always.
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Post by Annan on Jun 13, 2023 7:10:57 GMT -5
Speaking of modesty... My daughter's friend borrowed an outfit from her. My daughter looked good in the outfit. Her friend looked dollty. My husband looked at the friend like what the heck! dollty is all about attitude. A woman can dress to feel good about herself and her body. She can also dress to call attention to herself and with a "purpose". Intention is everything.
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Post by maryhig on Jun 14, 2023 4:21:31 GMT -5
Jesus wasn't ludicrous, if everyone lived by the way he taught the world would be in peace Jesus was very much like the Buddhist philosophy. And I agree if people were more like his good characteristics then we probably would be better off. But he wasn't perfect. He had a temper, he felt that the old law wasn't strict enough etc. Those aspects of his character wouldn't lead to peace. When I refer to the ludicrous, I mostly am referring to all the different religious doctrines in the world of religion. The mental gymnastics that take place trying to make their sacred book seem like it's all spiritual and not acknowledge the violence and dysfunction that also exists in these books. The bible isn't the only religious book that I find to be violent and I find it ludicrous how Christians don't follow the rules of the Christian OT God. They cherry pick what they want to do over and over. They justify this cherry picking by saying Jesus changed the rules. But he really didn't. In fact, he is said to have thought they were not strict enough. But even that passage when I quote it gets me told that that really wasn't what it means. Hi sorry I don't see Jesus like that, it says in the Bible to be angry and sin not. And this means to l even though you can be annoyed at people for doing wrong you don't harm them you just tell them the truth which Jesus did and still care for them and help them if they need it. Which passage are you referring to where Jesus says the law isn't strict enough? Thanks
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Post by snow on Jun 14, 2023 13:54:30 GMT -5
Jesus was very much like the Buddhist philosophy. And I agree if people were more like his good characteristics then we probably would be better off. But he wasn't perfect. He had a temper, he felt that the old law wasn't strict enough etc. Those aspects of his character wouldn't lead to peace. When I refer to the ludicrous, I mostly am referring to all the different religious doctrines in the world of religion. The mental gymnastics that take place trying to make their sacred book seem like it's all spiritual and not acknowledge the violence and dysfunction that also exists in these books. The bible isn't the only religious book that I find to be violent and I find it ludicrous how Christians don't follow the rules of the Christian OT God. They cherry pick what they want to do over and over. They justify this cherry picking by saying Jesus changed the rules. But he really didn't. In fact, he is said to have thought they were not strict enough. But even that passage when I quote it gets me told that that really wasn't what it means. Hi sorry I don't see Jesus like that, it says in the Bible to be angry and sin not. And this means to l even though you can be annoyed at people for doing wrong you don't harm them you just tell them the truth which Jesus did and still care for them and help them if they need it. Which passage are you referring to where Jesus says the law isn't strict enough? Thanks Matt 5:17-22 and in Matt 5:22 he goes further than the 'ancients' in his interpretation of the laws by saying Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.So the law said you must not kill or you are in danger of hell, but Jesus said even if you're angry at your brother without cause you are in danger of hellfire.
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Post by jennyfromtheblock on Jun 14, 2023 20:23:28 GMT -5
I agree that there should be a bit more latitude when dictating how people dress. The Workers set an example of what modest dress is, but I don't think people should be required to emulate them to a tee.
But there are minimum standards that should exist... How short can a skirt be? In fact, why not just wear short shorts and a tube top. Out of respect, people generally dress more modestly for church, it shouldn't look like a bunch of hicks just walked in from a beach party.
But I do sympathize with women because its not always practical to wear skirts.. And I never understood, "If a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering" (1 Corinthians 11:15). How is it a glory or a covering when it’s tied-up in a knot behind their heads?
They have relaxed the rules, I noticed guys wearing shorts at a bible study, and both my sisters wore sandals. No make-up or nail polish yet, but I suspect its coming. Neckties and suits may go out the window too?
Yes, after what’s been coming out the past 2-3 months, we definitely don’t want to emulate them to a T. Even if the sister workers look less dowdy than they used to, they could still easily be confused with any other fundamentalist group. I don’t care how they dress, just stating facts.
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Post by maryhig on Jun 15, 2023 6:54:39 GMT -5
Hi sorry I don't see Jesus like that, it says in the Bible to be angry and sin not. And this means to l even though you can be annoyed at people for doing wrong you don't harm them you just tell them the truth which Jesus did and still care for them and help them if they need it. Which passage are you referring to where Jesus says the law isn't strict enough? Thanks Matt 5:17-22 and in Matt 5:22 he goes further than the 'ancients' in his interpretation of the laws by saying Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.So the law said you must not kill or you are in danger of hell, but Jesus said even if you're angry at your brother without cause you are in danger of hellfire. That doesn't mean hell as in the way some people say, i.e. your going to hell then you die. For a start Jesus says their righteousness has to exceed that of the pharasees so he's speaking about them doing good, and he also says that they are in danger of hell fire not that they're going to hell. And hell fire is in the here and now not when we die. It means being pulled deeper into doing wrong having a hard heart, and we can get worse and worse, we start with anger, and if not sorted it gets worse and worse and can lead to hatred those dragging us deeper into the pit. Living by the works of the flesh and not bringing forth the fruits of the Spirit. Look here, Jude speaks about pulling people out of the fire, and we do that with compassion and the love of God helping and caring for those caught up by the wrong ways of the world Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Look at the following verses too, the fires of hell can be on your tongue. That's when we speak evil about others and tell lies all works of the flesh as we listen to the wrong spirit within us and then do it, or speak it out causing trouble. We are to listen to our conscience guided by the spirit of God and do what's right and nip it in the bud, try to stop thinking wrong thoughts when they come in to our minds, and live right before God and our hearts will burn with the fire of God's love and not with iniquity. James said resist the devil and he will flee from you, if we deny ourselves and listen to the word of God and do what's right then the devil can't control us and God will help us overcome the wrong within us. Jesus isn't saying anything bad, in fact he's strengthening the good in the law. He's saying it says in the law you shall not kill, but I say you shouldn't even be angry without a cause. We are at risk of going deeper into this hell in the here and now if we hold anger. And even if we do have a cause to be angry, we are to try and sort it out between one another and show the fruits of the Spirit as we fight the lusts of the flesh daily with the help of God, and Jesus has showed us how to do it, he is our example to follow.
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Post by mountain on Jun 15, 2023 9:06:28 GMT -5
The verses being quoted are from what is referred to as the Sermon on the Mount, made by Jesus at the beginning of his ministry. What is going on there is the beginning of the transitional period (it didn't happen overnight) from the OT covenant with the law to the New Testament covenant with God's grace. The more perfect standards of living by the grace of God requires God's help to achieve these new standards. The standards of grace seem impossible to a non-believer and indeed they are. They require the grace of God to make them possible and only a believer can receive that through the humility that is in Christ.
The age of Grace was unleashed at Pentecost where the Holy Spirit was sent to dwell within believers, in order to make the life of grace possible.
This is what happens when Virgs deserts us. Confusion and every manner of thought takes over.
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Post by snow on Jun 15, 2023 12:59:11 GMT -5
Matt 5:17-22 and in Matt 5:22 he goes further than the 'ancients' in his interpretation of the laws by saying Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.So the law said you must not kill or you are in danger of hell, but Jesus said even if you're angry at your brother without cause you are in danger of hellfire. That doesn't mean hell as in the way some people say, i.e. your going to hell then you die. For a start Jesus says their righteousness has to exceed that of the pharasees so he's speaking about them doing good, and he also says that they are in danger of hell fire not that they're going to hell. And hell fire is in the here and now not when we die. It means being pulled deeper into doing wrong having a hard heart, and we can get worse and worse, we start with anger, and if not sorted it gets worse and worse and can lead to hatred those dragging us deeper into the pit. Living by the works of the flesh and not bringing forth the fruits of the Spirit. Look here, Jude speaks about pulling people out of the fire, and we do that with compassion and the love of God helping and caring for those caught up by the wrong ways of the world Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Look at the following verses too, the fires of hell can be on your tongue. That's when we speak evil about others and tell lies all works of the flesh as we listen to the wrong spirit within us and then do it, or speak it out causing trouble. We are to listen to our conscience guided by the spirit of God and do what's right and nip it in the bud, try to stop thinking wrong thoughts when they come in to our minds, and live right before God and our hearts will burn with the fire of God's love and not with iniquity. James said resist the devil and he will flee from you, if we deny ourselves and listen to the word of God and do what's right then the devil can't control us and God will help us overcome the wrong within us. Jesus isn't saying anything bad, in fact he's strengthening the good in the law. He's saying it says in the law you shall not kill, but I say you shouldn't even be angry without a cause. We are at risk of going deeper into this hell in the here and now if we hold anger. And even if we do have a cause to be angry, we are to try and sort it out between one another and show the fruits of the Spirit as we fight the lusts of the flesh daily with the help of God, and Jesus has showed us how to do it, he is our example to follow. The Pharisees were the keepers of the law so when Jesus doesn't think the Pharisees are strict enough in keeping the law, that says to me that he believes it needs to be more rigid. I always find it interesting the different interpretations Christians have of what hell and hell fire mean. I think that the common consensus is that hell is somewhere atheists go when they die. Not what they live while alive. So I am interested to see where you think we go when we die if not heaven or hell?
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Post by Dan on Jun 15, 2023 16:58:49 GMT -5
Jesus never said that the Pharisees weren't strict enough, he said they were hypocrites, "Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men" (Matthew 23: 1-5). Jesus came to "write the law in our hearts" (Jeremiah 31:33), whereby simply wanting to kill or desiring to commit adultery was sinful.
Your correct, hell is the other side of Paradise, its where atheist and non-Christians go to await judgement. Everyone goes to the grave (Sheol or pit), but the destination of their spirit immediately goes to hell/Hades or paradise. Hell is not the Lake of Fire, nor is it purgatory (Catholicism), hell is the waiting room for judgement & the Lake of Fire (Luke 16). Gehenna is also a reference to hell/hades. Hell fire comes after judgement, its the second death in the Lake of Fire.
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