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Post by fixit on May 23, 2023 4:15:57 GMT -5
Its quite simple really, dont show up to any of their missions meetings or conventions. If you do you are publicly announcing you are willing to put up with their actions. If you know they have done something wrong and they wont listen or are giving you the cold shoulder, dont go. Go where you are comfortable with how people are acting and stop enabling people who are acting in a improper manner. I have twice turned around and gone home when I saw a certain car in front of the meeting house. I stopped taking pills to be able to face them in the meeting. That sounds like wolves, not shepherds.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 23, 2023 7:11:25 GMT -5
I have just submitted 5 old/new coverups by Overseers . Probably on wings site already !
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Post by ScholarGal on May 23, 2023 7:57:20 GMT -5
To me, you have to change the culture. I can’t speak for other countries, but in America, in our culture, it’s the same way. It doesn’t get talked about in school. It doesn’t get talked about at work. Heck, I didn’t even know about what all it does to victims until I’ve researched it the past couple months. How would I know? It’s never hit close to home for me. Nobody wants to deal with this or talk about it inside or out of the truth. I’m a little surprised, since progress has been made on the #metoo movement for sexual assault/inappropriate. there’s a big spotlight on sex trafficking. but there’s been no big public CSA push, and that’s very sad. But why is that? I think it’s because nobody wants the Spotlight to turn on. If you look at the stats, 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys have had CSA. 40% of those cases come from family members. That means everybody will have loved ones and close close family members going to prison. That does not mean it’s right, but I believe this is a big reason on why it’s not exposed. How many of us would be super anxious to investigate all of our friends and family, and put them on a lie detector, and have a confidential hotline on your family and friends sent out to everybody? Yeah, me neither if I’m honest. So I, like a lot of people, would have a tendency to only do some thing about it only if I see it or hear about it, when it comes to my own friends and family. There’s a lot of big talkers on here, but if push comes to shove, I wonder how many would follow through. I think I would, and hope I would. I’m a believer on turning crimes into the authorities and letting them investigate, but it be very very hard to send my father or mother to prison. The Catholic priest child abuse scandal has been in the news for 20 years. Do you see any parallels there when priests got moved to new places even though they were known abusers? amp.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/21/boston-globe-abuse-scandal-catholic
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Post by ScholarGal on May 23, 2023 8:12:30 GMT -5
My last tidbit will not be popular here but I think it’s good for everybody to keep in the back of their mind. At least chew on it and spit it out. I’ve read dozens and dozens and dozens of remarks on here how the overseers are covering it up because they’re evil and that’s all there is to it. I want you to at least look at it from the other side. Looking at it from the other side does not make you a bad person. It helps you see the full picture and keep things in proportion. Everybody has it all figured out until they’re in a place of leader ship, and have to make tough decisions. I do not believe all of the overseers have covered it up, because they are evil. I believe it’s more complex than that. I believe they are from a different generation, see above. I don’t think they know the magnitude of the damage that CSA causes. I don’t think they’re educated enough to know that this isn’t just something you do once, and feel remorseful and move on. That is the small percentage, most of them leave awake of victims. But you don’t know what you don’t know. You could be mad at them for not knowing, but some of this is ignorance. Also, they don’t have a manual on what to do. They feel true to their calling, and know how they would feel if they were asked to leave the work. Also, if you’re up there on the platform, and you preach that you’ve got to forgive a brother and move on, or forgive us sister, and move on, and have grace, and we are all sinners and deserve another chance. Is it so easy to turn right around and not show a brother worker mercy to give them another chance? Especially if that perpetrator seems remorseful and sorry he did it? obviously you know how I feel, I believe a crime should be punished by authorities. But not everybody shares that belief, and that’s what I hope is changing. Anyways, hope that’s a good little thought exercise that I haven’t heard on here this forum. It’s apparent that some of you haven’t really exercise that different part of your brain for a while. I am in no way justifying what they did, but a little empathy a little understanding can maybe go along ways. That also doesn’t mean we can’t ask them to step down, or let the authorities investigate. Somethings aren’t as easy as they seem, everything’s complex when you’re dealing with people and awkward situation’s. Not every case is as easy as the Dean Brewer case. Oofta! Heavy stuff! You propose an interesting thought exercise, but you should know that concerned friends and exes have been trying to educate the workers and overseers on the impact of CSA for over 15 years. Any overseer who doesn’t know the damage caused by CSA has literally covered their eyes and ears while obstinately refusing to read or listen. In the time since concerned friends have been urging the overseers to take appropriate action, science has discovered that CSA causes epigenetic changes. The damage is inheritable, which may explain part of the inter generational trauma. This is a public health concern, at least as serious as food safety and fire safety at conventions. If the workers decided to continue holding a convention in a location even though it had fire hazards and not enough exits, would you still give them grace for not knowing better?
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 23, 2023 10:06:52 GMT -5
To me, you have to change the culture. I can’t speak for other countries, but in America, in our culture, it’s the same way. It doesn’t get talked about in school. It doesn’t get talked about at work. Heck, I didn’t even know about what all it does to victims until I’ve researched it the past couple months. How would I know? It’s never hit close to home for me. Nobody wants to deal with this or talk about it inside or out of the truth. I’m a little surprised, since progress has been made on the #metoo movement for sexual assault/inappropriate. there’s a big spotlight on sex trafficking. but there’s been no big public CSA push, and that’s very sad. But why is that? I think it’s because nobody wants the Spotlight to turn on. If you look at the stats, 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys have had CSA. 40% of those cases come from family members. That means everybody will have loved ones and close close family members going to prison. That does not mean it’s right, but I believe this is a big reason on why it’s not exposed. How many of us would be super anxious to investigate all of our friends and family, and put them on a lie detector, and have a confidential hotline on your family and friends sent out to everybody? Yeah, me neither if I’m honest. So I, like a lot of people, would have a tendency to only do some thing about it only if I see it or hear about it, when it comes to my own friends and family. There’s a lot of big talkers on here, but if push comes to shove, I wonder how many would follow through. I think I would, and hope I would. I’m a believer on turning crimes into the authorities and letting them investigate, but it be very very hard to send my father or mother to prison. The Catholic priest child abuse scandal has been in the news for 20 years. Do you see any parallels there when priests got moved to new places even though they were known abusers? amp.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/21/boston-globe-abuse-scandal-catholicYes, I am aware and see parallels, but no public movement has been started from the Catholic scandals. No real change in our society came from that, unfortunately. I sure sure sure hope there has been change within.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 23, 2023 10:11:03 GMT -5
My last tidbit will not be popular here but I think it’s good for everybody to keep in the back of their mind. At least chew on it and spit it out. I’ve read dozens and dozens and dozens of remarks on here how the overseers are covering it up because they’re evil and that’s all there is to it. I want you to at least look at it from the other side. Looking at it from the other side does not make you a bad person. It helps you see the full picture and keep things in proportion. Everybody has it all figured out until they’re in a place of leader ship, and have to make tough decisions. I do not believe all of the overseers have covered it up, because they are evil. I believe it’s more complex than that. I believe they are from a different generation, see above. I don’t think they know the magnitude of the damage that CSA causes. I don’t think they’re educated enough to know that this isn’t just something you do once, and feel remorseful and move on. That is the small percentage, most of them leave awake of victims. But you don’t know what you don’t know. You could be mad at them for not knowing, but some of this is ignorance. Also, they don’t have a manual on what to do. They feel true to their calling, and know how they would feel if they were asked to leave the work. Also, if you’re up there on the platform, and you preach that you’ve got to forgive a brother and move on, or forgive us sister, and move on, and have grace, and we are all sinners and deserve another chance. Is it so easy to turn right around and not show a brother worker mercy to give them another chance? Especially if that perpetrator seems remorseful and sorry he did it? obviously you know how I feel, I believe a crime should be punished by authorities. But not everybody shares that belief, and that’s what I hope is changing. Anyways, hope that’s a good little thought exercise that I haven’t heard on here this forum. It’s apparent that some of you haven’t really exercise that different part of your brain for a while. I am in no way justifying what they did, but a little empathy a little understanding can maybe go along ways. That also doesn’t mean we can’t ask them to step down, or let the authorities investigate. Somethings aren’t as easy as they seem, everything’s complex when you’re dealing with people and awkward situation’s. Not every case is as easy as the Dean Brewer case. Oofta! Heavy stuff! You propose an interesting thought exercise, but you should know that concerned friends and exes have been trying to educate the workers and overseers on the impact of CSA for over 15 years. Any overseer who doesn’t know the damage caused by CSA has literally covered their eyes and ears while obstinately refusing to read or listen. In the time since concerned friends have been urging the overseers to take appropriate action, science has discovered that CSA causes epigenetic changes. The damage is inheritable, which may explain part of the inter generational trauma. This is a public health concern, at least as serious as food safety and fire safety at conventions. If the workers decided to continue holding a convention in a location even though it had fire hazards and not enough exits, would you still give them grace for not knowing better? I do believe it’s a public health concern, and I like your analogy as a hazard. I really do hope those workers get held accountable. And justice is served on them too. Things Under the rug are now being swept as we speak. The bride of Christ, and God’s ministry is getting refined, and purified, as we speak. This is a good thing, as CSA has no place in the bride of Christ.
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Post by Umfolozi on May 23, 2023 11:28:53 GMT -5
Report them to the police!!!!!!!
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 23, 2023 11:32:26 GMT -5
Very hard pressed , treading water 💦 in the deep end of the pool , arms are getting worn out . Looking for a life jacket . That is where the people who are working with official’s are going . We are not sleeping , we are working very hard on this . Don’t feel like eating , weary so effing weary .. Not exactly sure what awaits everyone . Sex offender success in rehabilitation is very low .
You could be sitting next to buddy (sex offender) In Sunday am meeting with your children and worker’s have hidden the offender for YEARS WE ARE JUST HEARING NOW . Enabled them to continue is ludicrous , beyond comprehension and you are just learning about it . Sorry unacceptable behavior from all who remain ignorant and uneducated about the WORLD . Remember birds of a feather flock TOGETHER !! I have seen , been a part of that evil . Each day , I don’t want a to check my emails . Because it’s ANOTHER SLAP IN THE EFFING FACE !!! Almost makes me want to make a call to my heavenly daughter’s father in law . Because I could ask for help and assure they are meted to have something bad to happen in custody . THAT IS A FACT ! However I wouldn’t , but as soon as other prisoners find out about these people , they will take justice into their own hands . They are the lowest of the low in jail , yes even a hierarchy in jail . Yes they are called skinners for a reason
I have no forgiveness left in me now zero . Don’t even suggest I go back to the fold to find peace . There seems to be a disconnect on here . 1 letter speaks of a 2 month old child being raped . If that doesn’t shake you to your core , you enable . If you place your child in that situation you should not have kids .
What part are you seeing and acknowledging ? It doesn’t look like everyone is opening their eyes ! I am currently seeing another stay in the hospital for my mental health . Each story takes all CSA/SA victims back to the immense trauma and pain . We relive every moment . But continue to supply all documents law enforcement officials need .
NO SEXUAL OFFENDER SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THE TRUTH AND MEETINGS , CONVENTION OR ANYTHING ELSE . Repeat and bugger off . I would not be taking my great grandchildren around any 2X2 event including funeral’s right now . Because I am aware of the most evil . You can smell these peeps . When you light a cigar around me , I loss it because my great uncle sexually abused me . He smoked cigars . Many triggers . Not just sexual abuse but abuse of many kinds and more victims .
The depravity is so evil . Again A TWO MONTH OLD . Who are going to tell . No one especially at that age . They can’t talk , cry but no talking . We have been diligently working on this for over 6 years in our realm and reality .
That’s imo , go ahead and bash all you want , I will still get up and follow this through .
Quote…… Numerous friends volunteered to be chaperones but they haven’t always followed the chaperone rules. A number of families with children were not comfortable meeting with the offenders and simply stopped coming to meetings. Bash away at your convenience , we will continue our work , even if we 🤢 . Anyhow gotta run meeting with three people today !
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 23, 2023 11:47:46 GMT -5
Don't want to wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One more walk through problems Built-up and stands in our way, ah One step ahead, one step behind me Now you gotta run to get even Make future plans or dream about yesterday, hey C'mon turn, turn this thing around , hey It's your tomorrow (Right now), C'mon, it's everything (Right now), Catch a magic moment, do it Right here and now It means everything Miss the beat, you lose the rhythm And nothing falls into place, no Only missed by a fraction Slipped a little off your pace, oh The more things you get, the more you want Just trade in one for the other Workin' so hard, to make it easier, whoa Got to turn, c'mon turn this thing around
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 23, 2023 13:57:47 GMT -5
Very hard pressed , treading water 💦 in the deep end of the pool , arms are getting worn out . Looking for a life jacket . That is where the people who are working with official’s are going . We are not sleeping , we are working very hard on this . Don’t feel like eating , weary so effing weary .. Not exactly sure what awaits everyone . Sex offender success in rehabilitation is very low . You could be sitting next to buddy (sex offender) In Sunday am meeting with your children and worker’s have hidden the offender for YEARS WE ARE JUST HEARING NOW . Enabled them to continue is ludicrous , beyond comprehension and you are just learning about it . Sorry unacceptable behavior from all who remain ignorant and uneducated about the WORLD . Remember birds of a feather flock TOGETHER !! I have seen , been a part of that evil . Each day , I don’t want a to check my emails . Because it’s ANOTHER SLAP IN THE EFFING FACE !!! Almost makes me want to make a call to my heavenly daughter’s father in law . Because I could ask for help and assure they are meted to have something bad to happen in custody . THAT IS A FACT ! However I wouldn’t , but as soon as other prisoners find out about these people , they will take justice into their own hands . They are the lowest of the low in jail , yes even a hierarchy in jail . Yes they are called skinners for a reason I have no forgiveness left in me now zero . Don’t even suggest I go back to the fold to find peace . There seems to be a disconnect on here . 1 letter speaks of a 2 month old child being raped . If that doesn’t shake you to your core , you enable . If you place your child in that situation you should not have kids . What part are you seeing and acknowledging ? It doesn’t look like everyone is opening their eyes ! I am currently seeing another stay in the hospital for my mental health . Each story takes all CSA/SA victims back to the immense trauma and pain . We relive every moment . But continue to supply all documents law enforcement officials need . NO SEXUAL OFFENDER SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THE TRUTH AND MEETINGS , CONVENTION OR ANYTHING ELSE . Repeat and bugger off . I would not be taking my great grandchildren around any 2X2 event including funeral’s right now . Because I am aware of the most evil . You can smell these peeps . When you light a cigar around me , I loss it because my great uncle sexually abused me . He smoked cigars . Many triggers . Not just sexual abuse but abuse of many kinds and more victims . The depravity is so evil . Again A TWO MONTH OLD . Who are going to tell . No one especially at that age . They can’t talk , cry but no talking . We have been diligently working on this for over 6 years in our realm and reality . That’s imo , go ahead and bash all you want , I will still get up and follow this through . Quote…… Numerous friends volunteered to be chaperones but they haven’t always followed the chaperone rules. A number of families with children were not comfortable meeting with the offenders and simply stopped coming to meetings. Bash away at your convenience , we will continue our work , even if we 🤢 . Anyhow gotta run meeting with three people today ! Hang in there, 1chinesewhisperes. I think I can speak for everyone on this forum, friend or foe (such as me, who you really don’t seem to like very much)— we hope that you can find comfort, peace, and healing in whatever way you can.
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Post by snow on May 23, 2023 18:45:24 GMT -5
How many of the overseers and workers enabled or are involved in cover-ups? If they are not directly involved, but are aware, are they still responsible? If you enable someone in a crime, you are an accomplice. They enabled these abusers to continue their abuse by moving them around and not turning them over to the authorities. In most places CSA is something that people are by law supposed to report to authorities. We know that some of the overseers in the US and Canada did this. Now we are seeing that behavior in SA regarding Kingsley Stone.
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Post by snow on May 23, 2023 19:21:28 GMT -5
To me, you have to change the culture. I can’t speak for other countries, but in America, in our culture, it’s the same way. It doesn’t get talked about in school. It doesn’t get talked about at work. Heck, I didn’t even know about what all it does to victims until I’ve researched it the past couple months. How would I know? It’s never hit close to home for me. Nobody wants to deal with this or talk about it inside or out of the truth. I’m a little surprised, since progress has been made on the #metoo movement for sexual assault/inappropriate. there’s a big spotlight on sex trafficking. but there’s been no big public CSA push, and that’s very sad. But why is that? I think it’s because nobody wants the Spotlight to turn on. If you look at the stats, 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys have had CSA. 40% of those cases come from family members. That means everybody will have loved ones and close close family members going to prison. That does not mean it’s right, but I believe this is a big reason on why it’s not exposed. How many of us would be super anxious to investigate all of our friends and family, and put them on a lie detector, and have a confidential hotline on your family and friends sent out to everybody? Yeah, me neither if I’m honest. So I, like a lot of people, would have a tendency to only do some thing about it only if I see it or hear about it, when it comes to my own friends and family. There’s a lot of big talkers on here, but if push comes to shove, I wonder how many would follow through. I think I would, and hope I would. I’m a believer on turning crimes into the authorities and letting them investigate, but it be very very hard to send my father or mother to prison. Speaking of culture, a lot of this is a generational thing. the younger the generation, the more open and real the talks anything and everything. Depression, mental health disorders, sex, CSA, you name it. But the old timers, the ones in overseer positions and in leadership positions around the world, they come from that generation where you DO NOT TALK about anything like that, because that’s how the whole world was in that generation. And you know the phrase old dogs new tricks. To me, this is no excuse, but that’s the culture that they grew up in and that’s the reality. That’s why it’s so hard to change, some of that culture and generation Has to die out, or get forced out, or change. I guarantee there were a bunch of old sister workers and old brother workers in that three day workshop meeting in Texas who heard more about CSA and that weekend and they have their WHOLE life. That generation just didn’t talk about it. And good for them for sitting through that, and not walking out. The new generations has its own set of issues issues, but that’s one good thing about this generation. One thing that should be encouraging to everybody, whether you believe it or not, is that there has never been such an outcry from With in the friends, for change. It’s like Perry Pearson said in his letter, “the church is demanding…”We’ve never seen a public hotline, seen this outrage. There needs to be a tipping point for the culture to change, and I believe that has happened in the Truth. It hasn’t happened in America society, but I believe there is real change coming, and will stay in the Way. Out with the old culture, in with a new. To answer the original question, what to do with workers involved in coverups, to me that’s a little more complex. I don’t know the answer, but I know someone who had knowledge of the crimes, names of the perpetrators and names of the victims and several accusations, they should be treated way way more harshly than someone who heard through the grapevine or maybe you saw some smoke, but never investigated themselves for fire. My last tidbit will not be popular here but I think it’s good for everybody to keep in the back of their mind. At least chew on it and spit it out. I’ve read dozens and dozens and dozens of remarks on here how the overseers are covering it up because they’re evil and that’s all there is to it. I want you to at least look at it from the other side. Looking at it from the other side does not make you a bad person. It helps you see the full picture and keep things in proportion. Everybody has it all figured out until they’re in a place of leader ship, and have to make tough decisions. I do not believe all of the overseers have covered it up, because they are evil. I believe it’s more complex than that. I believe they are from a different generation, see above. I don’t think they know the magnitude of the damage that CSA causes. I don’t think they’re educated enough to know that this isn’t just something you do once, and feel remorseful and move on. That is the small percentage, most of them leave awake of victims. But you don’t know what you don’t know. You could be mad at them for not knowing, but some of this is ignorance. Also, they don’t have a manual on what to do. They feel true to their calling, and know how they would feel if they were asked to leave the work. Also, if you’re up there on the platform, and you preach that you’ve got to forgive a brother and move on, or forgive us sister, and move on, and have grace, and we are all sinners and deserve another chance. Is it so easy to turn right around and not show a brother worker mercy to give them another chance? Especially if that perpetrator seems remorseful and sorry he did it? obviously you know how I feel, I believe a crime should be punished by authorities. But not everybody shares that belief, and that’s what I hope is changing. Anyways, hope that’s a good little thought exercise that I haven’t heard on here this forum. It’s apparent that some of you haven’t really exercise that different part of your brain for a while. I am in no way justifying what they did, but a little empathy a little understanding can maybe go along ways. That also doesn’t mean we can’t ask them to step down, or let the authorities investigate. Somethings aren’t as easy as they seem, everything’s complex when you’re dealing with people and awkward situation’s. Not every case is as easy as the Dean Brewer case. Oofta! Heavy stuff! I highlighted your paragraph about the overseers not knowing. But I have say this. They must have known it needed to be hidden or they would not have moved abusers around and didn't warn the friends where they moved them too. So that in and of itself tells me they fully knew it was wrong and tried to hide it.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 23, 2023 20:47:59 GMT -5
To me, you have to change the culture. I can’t speak for other countries, but in America, in our culture, it’s the same way. It doesn’t get talked about in school. It doesn’t get talked about at work. Heck, I didn’t even know about what all it does to victims until I’ve researched it the past couple months. How would I know? It’s never hit close to home for me. Nobody wants to deal with this or talk about it inside or out of the truth. I’m a little surprised, since progress has been made on the #metoo movement for sexual assault/inappropriate. there’s a big spotlight on sex trafficking. but there’s been no big public CSA push, and that’s very sad. But why is that? I think it’s because nobody wants the Spotlight to turn on. If you look at the stats, 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys have had CSA. 40% of those cases come from family members. That means everybody will have loved ones and close close family members going to prison. That does not mean it’s right, but I believe this is a big reason on why it’s not exposed. How many of us would be super anxious to investigate all of our friends and family, and put them on a lie detector, and have a confidential hotline on your family and friends sent out to everybody? Yeah, me neither if I’m honest. So I, like a lot of people, would have a tendency to only do some thing about it only if I see it or hear about it, when it comes to my own friends and family. There’s a lot of big talkers on here, but if push comes to shove, I wonder how many would follow through. I think I would, and hope I would. I’m a believer on turning crimes into the authorities and letting them investigate, but it be very very hard to send my father or mother to prison. Speaking of culture, a lot of this is a generational thing. the younger the generation, the more open and real the talks anything and everything. Depression, mental health disorders, sex, CSA, you name it. But the old timers, the ones in overseer positions and in leadership positions around the world, they come from that generation where you DO NOT TALK about anything like that, because that’s how the whole world was in that generation. And you know the phrase old dogs new tricks. To me, this is no excuse, but that’s the culture that they grew up in and that’s the reality. That’s why it’s so hard to change, some of that culture and generation Has to die out, or get forced out, or change. I guarantee there were a bunch of old sister workers and old brother workers in that three day workshop meeting in Texas who heard more about CSA and that weekend and they have their WHOLE life. That generation just didn’t talk about it. And good for them for sitting through that, and not walking out. The new generations has its own set of issues issues, but that’s one good thing about this generation. One thing that should be encouraging to everybody, whether you believe it or not, is that there has never been such an outcry from With in the friends, for change. It’s like Perry Pearson said in his letter, “the church is demanding…”We’ve never seen a public hotline, seen this outrage. There needs to be a tipping point for the culture to change, and I believe that has happened in the Truth. It hasn’t happened in America society, but I believe there is real change coming, and will stay in the Way. Out with the old culture, in with a new. To answer the original question, what to do with workers involved in coverups, to me that’s a little more complex. I don’t know the answer, but I know someone who had knowledge of the crimes, names of the perpetrators and names of the victims and several accusations, they should be treated way way more harshly than someone who heard through the grapevine or maybe you saw some smoke, but never investigated themselves for fire. My last tidbit will not be popular here but I think it’s good for everybody to keep in the back of their mind. At least chew on it and spit it out. I’ve read dozens and dozens and dozens of remarks on here how the overseers are covering it up because they’re evil and that’s all there is to it. I want you to at least look at it from the other side. Looking at it from the other side does not make you a bad person. It helps you see the full picture and keep things in proportion. Everybody has it all figured out until they’re in a place of leader ship, and have to make tough decisions. I do not believe all of the overseers have covered it up, because they are evil. I believe it’s more complex than that. I believe they are from a different generation, see above. I don’t think they know the magnitude of the damage that CSA causes. I don’t think they’re educated enough to know that this isn’t just something you do once, and feel remorseful and move on. That is the small percentage, most of them leave awake of victims. But you don’t know what you don’t know. You could be mad at them for not knowing, but some of this is ignorance. Also, they don’t have a manual on what to do. They feel true to their calling, and know how they would feel if they were asked to leave the work. Also, if you’re up there on the platform, and you preach that you’ve got to forgive a brother and move on, or forgive us sister, and move on, and have grace, and we are all sinners and deserve another chance. Is it so easy to turn right around and not show a brother worker mercy to give them another chance? Especially if that perpetrator seems remorseful and sorry he did it? obviously you know how I feel, I believe a crime should be punished by authorities. But not everybody shares that belief, and that’s what I hope is changing. Anyways, hope that’s a good little thought exercise that I haven’t heard on here this forum. It’s apparent that some of you haven’t really exercise that different part of your brain for a while. I am in no way justifying what they did, but a little empathy a little understanding can maybe go along ways. That also doesn’t mean we can’t ask them to step down, or let the authorities investigate. Somethings aren’t as easy as they seem, everything’s complex when you’re dealing with people and awkward situation’s. Not every case is as easy as the Dean Brewer case. Oofta! Heavy stuff! I highlighted your paragraph about the overseers not knowing. But I have say this. They must have known it needed to be hidden or they would not have moved abusers around and didn't warn the friends where they moved them too. So that in and of itself tells me they fully knew it was wrong and tried to hide it. I partially agree. I’ll answer this way. Is this not a likely scenario… an overseer is made aware of abuse. No other victims comes forward. Old generation worker comes from an era where everyone in society (inside the truth and out) do not talk about things like this… you do not confront things like this. But, he confronts criminal worker anyways. Criminal worker (real or fake) feels overwhelmingly wrong and ashamed and realizes his wrong. Overseer is conflicted on what to do. In his mind it’s a one off weird and wrong thing. He Believes criminal worker has repented and won’t do it again, but criminal worker cannot be around victims at special meetings and conventions, out of respect for the victim. So criminal worker is moved to a different state so victim can heal and criminal worker can have fresh start. In my life, I didn’t know that predators have multiple, even up to hundreds of victims. I just assumed, until I dug into this the last couple months, it was a one off thing with one victim (which is horrendous by itself) so it’s very believable for me to think an overseer would assume the same thing. I believe if you pull people off the street and quiz them, many would be shocked to know the average victims per predator are way more than what it is. School doesn’t teach us. Jobs don’t teach us. It’s awkward, so nobody talks about it. And unless it’s hit close to home, that’s not enjoyable thing to research. For instance, how many readers know that 1 in 5 predator has between 10 and 40 victims? (Source:darkness to light) that blew my mind. We aren’t even taught to not sexually molest children, it’s just inherently in all of us, right? Wrong. (And there lies a problem… ignorance and lack of education) **Everybody, please read my full explanation above before commenting. context is everything. You will see that I am in no way in favor of this kind of thinking, and it is inexcusable, in my opinion. but I cannot believe that every single overseer who has dealt with this wrongly is evil. I’m simply making a connection that we, ourselves, had made 50 years ago if we were in the same position. We, in every aspect of our life, do our best with what we know. We (on this forum) only see things from a very limited point of view. Even with that limited point of view, I still think if everybody (including those not on this forum) can collectively make decisions on how to bring Justice, if there’s unity. At the end of the day, this is all about justice for the victims, and striving for zero more victims in the future. How that looks I think is where some disagreements lie. For what it’s worth, I think there have been coverups and evil and self interest present in some overseers decisions, and that’s what I hope is getting sorted out right now.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 23, 2023 20:54:52 GMT -5
To quote Tony Montana ….. Are you talking to me ? Are you f-cking talking to me ? Bury my head in a mound of cocaine , take a big snort , pull ok my automatic assault rifle and start firing !!!!!! Are you f-cking talking to me ? Scarface . Al Pacino , fav actor . I’m sure you haven’t seen it as you should not have a tv !!!!!! You are shunned , don’t speak my name again !!!!!! Shunned forever ♾️ go hang out in Venus with Ffaaawwwkkk Stange ! You don’t exist anymore . Do you suppose your friend from Portland is in Venus yet?
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Post by neighbour on May 23, 2023 20:57:31 GMT -5
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on May 23, 2023 20:57:35 GMT -5
lol he is somewhere , yes maybe Venus . It’s probably a good thing he is not on here for this …..
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Post by BobWilliston on May 23, 2023 21:31:21 GMT -5
I highlighted your paragraph about the overseers not knowing. But I have say this. They must have known it needed to be hidden or they would not have moved abusers around and didn't warn the friends where they moved them too. So that in and of itself tells me they fully knew it was wrong and tried to hide it. My half century experience is that the workers frequently know ear more than they let on. Funny incident when 2 sister workers came to visit. One said something about what the other would do in her new field next year. The other replies, "Are we supposed to talk about that yet?" The one says, "I don't know. Maybe you're right."
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Post by verna on May 23, 2023 21:54:44 GMT -5
I highlighted your paragraph about the overseers not knowing. But I have say this. They must have known it needed to be hidden or they would not have moved abusers around and didn't warn the friends where they moved them too. So that in and of itself tells me they fully knew it was wrong and tried to hide it. I partially agree. I’ll answer this way. Is this not a likely scenario… an overseer is made aware of abuse. No other victims comes forward. Old generation worker comes from an era where everyone in society (inside the truth and out) do not talk about things like this… you do not confront things like this. But, he confronts criminal worker anyways. Criminal worker (real or fake) feels overwhelmingly wrong and ashamed and realizes his wrong. Overseer is conflicted on what to do. In his mind it’s a one off weird and wrong thing. He Believes criminal worker has repented and won’t do it again, but criminal worker cannot be around victims at special meetings and conventions, out of respect for the victim. So criminal worker is moved to a different state so victim can heal and criminal worker can have fresh start. In my life, I didn’t know that predators have multiple, even up to hundreds of victims. I just assumed, until I dug into this the last couple months, it was a one off thing with one victim (which is horrendous by itself) so it’s very believable for me to think an overseer would assume the same thing. I believe if you pull people off the street and quiz them, many would be shocked to know the average victims per predator are way more than what it is. School doesn’t teach us. Jobs don’t teach us. It’s awkward, so nobody talks about it. And unless it’s hit close to home, that’s not enjoyable thing to research. For instance, how many readers know that 1 in 5 predator has between 10 and 40 victims? (Source:darkness to light) that blew my mind. We aren’t even taught to not sexually molest children, it’s just inherently in all of us, right? Wrong. (And there lies a problem… ignorance and lack of education) **Everybody, please read my full explanation above before commenting. context is everything. You will see that I am in no way in favor of this kind of thinking, and it is inexcusable, in my opinion. but I cannot believe that every single overseer who has dealt with this wrongly is evil. I’m simply making a connection that we, ourselves, had made 50 years ago if we were in the same position. We, in every aspect of our life, do our best with what we know. We (on this forum) only see things from a very limited point of view. Even with that limited point of view, I still think if everybody (including those not on this forum) can collectively make decisions on how to bring Justice, if there’s unity. At the end of the day, this is all about justice for the victims, and striving for zero more victims in the future. How that looks I think is where some disagreements lie. For what it’s worth, I think there have been coverups and evil and self interest present in some overseers decisions, and that’s what I hope is getting sorted out right now. Alwaysbekind can you please explain this to me. I am perplexed. Apparently the workers are spirit led. The Holy Spirit guides the faithful right? So if this is the case, how can you excuse the overseers for such an oversight. Either the Holy Spirit guides or it does not. Unless the overseers are not right with God but then that’s another issue. Thx for any explanation you can provide.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 23, 2023 22:21:53 GMT -5
I partially agree. I’ll answer this way. Is this not a likely scenario… an overseer is made aware of abuse. No other victims comes forward. Old generation worker comes from an era where everyone in society (inside the truth and out) do not talk about things like this… you do not confront things like this. But, he confronts criminal worker anyways. Criminal worker (real or fake) feels overwhelmingly wrong and ashamed and realizes his wrong. Overseer is conflicted on what to do. In his mind it’s a one off weird and wrong thing. He Believes criminal worker has repented and won’t do it again, but criminal worker cannot be around victims at special meetings and conventions, out of respect for the victim. So criminal worker is moved to a different state so victim can heal and criminal worker can have fresh start. In my life, I didn’t know that predators have multiple, even up to hundreds of victims. I just assumed, until I dug into this the last couple months, it was a one off thing with one victim (which is horrendous by itself) so it’s very believable for me to think an overseer would assume the same thing. I believe if you pull people off the street and quiz them, many would be shocked to know the average victims per predator are way more than what it is. School doesn’t teach us. Jobs don’t teach us. It’s awkward, so nobody talks about it. And unless it’s hit close to home, that’s not enjoyable thing to research. For instance, how many readers know that 1 in 5 predator has between 10 and 40 victims? (Source:darkness to light) that blew my mind. We aren’t even taught to not sexually molest children, it’s just inherently in all of us, right? Wrong. (And there lies a problem… ignorance and lack of education) **Everybody, please read my full explanation above before commenting. context is everything. You will see that I am in no way in favor of this kind of thinking, and it is inexcusable, in my opinion. but I cannot believe that every single overseer who has dealt with this wrongly is evil. I’m simply making a connection that we, ourselves, had made 50 years ago if we were in the same position. We, in every aspect of our life, do our best with what we know. We (on this forum) only see things from a very limited point of view. Even with that limited point of view, I still think if everybody (including those not on this forum) can collectively make decisions on how to bring Justice, if there’s unity. At the end of the day, this is all about justice for the victims, and striving for zero more victims in the future. How that looks I think is where some disagreements lie. For what it’s worth, I think there have been coverups and evil and self interest present in some overseers decisions, and that’s what I hope is getting sorted out right now. Alwaysbekind can you please explain this to me. I am perplexed. Apparently the workers are spirit led. The Holy Spirit guides the faithful right? So if this is the case, how can you excuse the overseers for such an oversight. Either the Holy Spirit guides or it does not. Unless the overseers are not right with God but then that’s another issue. Thx for any explanation you can provide. I do want to say I do not excuse most of the mishandling. (I don’t say all, only because I don’t know enough about all of the different overseers and the situation) it seems like you believe the Holy Spirit should have guided the overseers to do what, exactly? I’m a little confused on the oversight you mentioned. Are you asking why the Holy Spirit didn’t tell the worker about CSA and its effects? Or what oversight, exactly, are you talking about that you think the Holy Spirit should have guided him to? If you could clear that up a little bit, that would help with my answer.
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Post by verna on May 23, 2023 22:31:51 GMT -5
Alwaysbekind can you please explain this to me. I am perplexed. Apparently the workers are spirit led. The Holy Spirit guides the faithful right? So if this is the case, how can you excuse the overseers for such an oversight. Either the Holy Spirit guides or it does not. Unless the overseers are not right with God but then that’s another issue. Thx for any explanation you can provide. I do want to say I do not excuse most of the mishandling. (I don’t say all, only because I don’t know enough about all of the different overseers and the situation) it seems like you believe the Holy Spirit should have guided the overseers to do what, exactly? I’m a little confused on the oversight you mentioned. Are you asking why the Holy Spirit didn’t tell the worker about CSA and its effects? Or what oversight, exactly, are you talking about that you think the Holy Spirit should have guided him to? If you could clear that up a little bit, that would help with my answer. Hmmm. You talked, I believe about god speaking to your heart. This seems, from what I know of the faith (and yes I was a faithful adherent), to be an important aspect. You pray for guidance. Apparently god/the Holy Spirit “guides” - helps you (when I say you I mean the believer) to makes right moves. No? I know it’s not necessarily completely specific- but it seems this is why you ask god for help through prayer. No? So in something as important as CSA, wouldn’t you think the spirit/god would guide the fervent overseer? Wouldn’t he be guided to take this seriously? But this has not happened. Apparently they needed to be taught by “man” and since that didn’t happen, you ask “how could they know?” This whole scenario just completely shatters my faith (ok it was lacking before) in the Holy Spirit and I cannot understand why it would not do so for others.
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Post by haggard on May 23, 2023 23:12:57 GMT -5
well they hold the franchise to salvation... you trust them with your soul..but u cant trust them with your children?? as far as morality..l always thote the older the generation the more strict they were...why would a god directed person have any confusion between right and wrong...whats all this mumble jumple about needing courses how to behave with children..? lol glad u didnt wait for running shoes to come on sale at Walmart,,before you made a run for it
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Post by BobWilliston on May 23, 2023 23:32:17 GMT -5
well they hold the franchise to salvation... you trust them with your soul..but u cant trust them with your children?? as far as morality..l always thote the older the generation the more strict they were...why would a god directed person have any confusion between right and wrong...whats all this mumble jumple about needing courses how to behave with children..? lol glad u didnt wait for running shoes to come on sale at Walmart,,before you made a run for it Actually the reason they're taking courses is, for them, really not about how to treat children. It's about how to keep from getting arrested. If it weren't for that threat, they'd be back abiding by the direction of their spirit...
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 23, 2023 23:39:41 GMT -5
I do want to say I do not excuse most of the mishandling. (I don’t say all, only because I don’t know enough about all of the different overseers and the situation) it seems like you believe the Holy Spirit should have guided the overseers to do what, exactly? I’m a little confused on the oversight you mentioned. Are you asking why the Holy Spirit didn’t tell the worker about CSA and its effects? Or what oversight, exactly, are you talking about that you think the Holy Spirit should have guided him to? If you could clear that up a little bit, that would help with my answer. Hmmm. You talked, I believe about god speaking to your heart. This seems, from what I know of the faith (and yes I was a faithful adherent), to be an important aspect. You pray for guidance. Apparently god/the Holy Spirit “guides” - helps you (when I say you I mean the believer) to makes right moves. No? I know it’s not necessarily completely specific- but it seems this is why you ask god for help through prayer. No? So in something as important as CSA, wouldn’t you think the spirit/god would guide the fervent overseer? Wouldn’t he be guided to take this seriously? But this has not happened. Apparently they needed to be taught by “man” and since that didn’t happen, you ask “how could they know?” This whole scenario just completely shatters my faith (ok it was lacking before) in the Holy Spirit and I cannot understand why it would not do so for others. Great questions, and hard to explain. Really hard. I believe God’s spirit is something He blesses us with, something He puts inside of us. I think of it as that which is inside of us that tries to influence us to think, say, act, it brings true peace, and puts off almost like an aroma. It’s very subtle though, it’s not an overwhelming thing, in my experience. It’s a gentle working, that settles in, is maybe the best way I can describe it. There are other natural spirits, maybe it’s easier to think about the spirit of hate, let’s say. If we have hate in our heart and a hateful spirit, it will control what we think, say act, and someone hateful kinda has the aroma or stinks of it. I’ve heard it said that the spirit of God is like a dove. A doves character is two things. It is very very easily spooked. when something in our heart, or life is not a good environment, I believe God removes his spirit from our life. I think this is why we are encouraged over and over again to follow our peace. And I think that’s like the spirits leading. One way it works. Is it remove the peace, so that you know something is off, and we can self examine. The other aspect of a doves personality is not easily offended. We could call this it’s homing Instinct… it wants to come back and well. Same thing with Gods spirit. He will try and try to put it back in our lives, when the environment is right and worthy it again. It seems to me like a little bit is almost exaggerated in the religious world. Like you’re full of some holy spirit, and it transforms, and is huge and loud and overrides your thoughts and feelings. But I don’t believe that’s so. I felt like I needed to explain a little bit about the spirit, since you asked a lot about it, to answer your question. I do feel like his spirit leads us at times on different matters, but I don’t know how much. I’m pretty practical, and I think a lot of things and decisions are made based on how we think about things, and what we know and experience. I do believe if we have God spirit, that enters and changes our heart and our mind and influences it. The spirit subtle, and I think its nudging gets recognized wrongly sometimes. So maybe that’s how the overseers could overlook it, if it was there, nudging. Maybe the spirit brought it to their mind, and they were so programmed by their upbringing and generation to Nip it in the bud, and not even allow that Spirit turn their thoughts towards CSA. even if they have the right spirit, they didn’t hear it, or recognize that nudging, if it was there. I think of so many in the Bible, who we read about, who were very spiritual people, who did the wrong things. Made wrong decisions. How many months would have David been committing adultery with Bathsheba before realizing she was pregnant? It says David was a man after Gods own heart, so how could he do that? And then he sent her husband to go die on the front lines of war. How can that be? How can a spiritual person do that? I think that’s what we’re facing with the overseers. Great, godly people are very very human. And I 100% believe the workers are ordained by God and called them into the ministry. But they are just as human as you and me. They just have a different place in the kingdom. It’s us that put them on pedestals and expect perfection and complete purity. That’s only found in Jesus. We expect way more out of them than we do ourselves. And yes, there has to be a certain level of behavior to have the authority to speak with, and be a good influence as a leader, in my opinion. People like to think they’re hypocrites, but they’re just struggling souls like you and me, trying to make it to heaven. And they get it wrong sometimes. Way wrong. Damaging wrong. But A hypocrite and a struggling soul looks very very similar sitting next to each other. Both fallen short, The only difference is the intent in their heart. Sorry it’s so long and I don’t feel like I was able to articulate that as well as I had hoped.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 23, 2023 23:50:29 GMT -5
Hmmm. You talked, I believe about god speaking to your heart. This seems, from what I know of the faith (and yes I was a faithful adherent), to be an important aspect. You pray for guidance. Apparently god/the Holy Spirit “guides” - helps you (when I say you I mean the believer) to makes right moves. No? I know it’s not necessarily completely specific- but it seems this is why you ask god for help through prayer. No? So in something as important as CSA, wouldn’t you think the spirit/god would guide the fervent overseer? Wouldn’t he be guided to take this seriously? But this has not happened. Apparently they needed to be taught by “man” and since that didn’t happen, you ask “how could they know?” This whole scenario just completely shatters my faith (ok it was lacking before) in the Holy Spirit and I cannot understand why it would not do so for others. Great questions, and hard to explain. Really hard. I believe God’s spirit is something He blesses us with, something He puts inside of us. I think of it as that which is inside of us that tries to influence us to think, say, act, it brings true peace, and puts off almost like an aroma. It’s very subtle though, it’s not an overwhelming thing, in my experience. It’s a gentle working, that settles in, is maybe the best way I can describe it. There are other natural spirits, maybe it’s easier to think about the spirit of hate, let’s say. If we have hate in our heart and a hateful spirit, it will control what we think, say act, and someone hateful kinda has the aroma or stinks of it. I’ve heard it said that the spirit of God is like a dove. A doves character is two things. It is very very easily spooked. when something in our heart, or life is not a good environment, I believe God removes his spirit from our life. I think this is why we are encouraged over and over again to follow our peace. And I think that’s like the spirits leading. One way it works is you lose your peace. that is an indicator that something is off, and we can self examine. The other aspect of a doves personality is not easily offended. We could call this it’s homing Instinct… it wants to come back and dwell. Same thing with Gods spirit. He will try and try to put it back in our lives, when the environment is right and worthy it again. It seems to me like a little bit is almost exaggerated in the religious world. Like you’re full of some holy spirit, and it transforms, and is huge and loud and overrides your thoughts and feelings. But I don’t believe that’s so. I felt like I needed to explain a little bit about the spirit, since you asked a lot about it, to answer your question. I do feel like his spirit leads us at times on different matters, but I don’t know how much. I’m pretty practical, and I think a lot of things and decisions are made based on how we think about things, and what we know and experience. I do believe if we have God spirit, that enters and changes our heart and our mind and influences it. Gods spirit is subtle, and I think its nudging gets recognized wrongly sometimes. So maybe that’s how the overseers could overlook it, if it was there, nudging. Maybe the spirit brought it to their mind, and they were so programmed by their upbringing and generation to Nip it in the bud, and not even allow that Spirit turn their thoughts towards CSA. even if they have the right spirit, they didn’t hear it, or recognize that nudging, if it was there. I think of so many in the Bible, who we read about, who were very spiritual people, who did the wrong things. Made wrong decisions. How many months would have David been committing adultery with Bathsheba before realizing she was pregnant? It says David was a man after Gods own heart, so how could he do that? And then he sent her husband to go die on the front lines of war. How can that be? How can a spiritual person do that? I think that’s what we’re facing with the overseers. Great, godly people are very very human. And I 100% believe the workers are ordained by God and called them into the ministry. But they are just as human as you and me. They just have a different place in the kingdom. It’s us that put them on pedestals and expect perfection and complete purity. That’s only found in Jesus. We expect way more out of them than we do ourselves. And yes, there has to be a certain level of behavior to have the authority to speak with, and be a good influence as a leader, in my opinion. People like to think they’re hypocrites, but they’re just struggling souls like you and me, trying to make it to heaven. And they get it wrong sometimes. Way wrong. Damaging wrong. But A hypocrite and a struggling soul looks very very similar sitting next to each other. Both fallen short, The only difference is the intent in their heart. Sorry it’s so long and I don’t feel like I was able to articulate that as well as I had hoped.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 24, 2023 1:47:14 GMT -5
well they hold the franchise to salvation... you trust them with your soul..but u cant trust them with your children?? as far as morality..l always thote the older the generation the more strict they were...why would a god directed person have any confusion between right and wrong...whats all this mumble jumple about needing courses how to behave with children..? lol glad u didnt wait for running shoes to come on sale at Walmart,,before you made a run for it Actually the reason they're taking courses is, for them, really not about how to treat children. It's about how to keep from getting arrested. If it weren't for that threat, they'd be back abiding by the direction of their spirit... And there is also the hope that when the perpetrator volunteers for therapy prior to charges being laid, that a judge and/or jury might show some leniency and a sentence is commuted. Very self-serving, although better than not, I guess.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 24, 2023 4:58:20 GMT -5
Actually the reason they're taking courses is, for them, really not about how to treat children. It's about how to keep from getting arrested. If it weren't for that threat, they'd be back abiding by the direction of their spirit... And there is also the hope that when the perpetrator volunteers for therapy prior to charges being laid, that a judge and/or jury might show some leniency and a sentence is commuted. Very self-serving, although better than not, I guess. I am always amazed how so many criminals held in custody awaiting trial get religious. Soon after they serve their sentence its all forgotten again.
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Post by jonathan on May 24, 2023 6:31:17 GMT -5
And there is also the hope that when the perpetrator volunteers for therapy prior to charges being laid, that a judge and/or jury might show some leniency and a sentence is commuted. Very self-serving, although better than not, I guess. I am always amazed how so many criminals held in custody awaiting trial get religious. Soon after they serve their sentence its all forgotten again. I've seen this 8ver and 8ver again. Disappointing, but it's a fact. Part of reality.
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Post by Annan on May 24, 2023 6:39:20 GMT -5
lol he is somewhere , yes maybe Venus . It’s probably a good thing he is not on here for this ….. I think about him from time to time. I'm sure he's blowing blood vessels right and left not being able to post here.
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