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Post by Roselyn T on May 20, 2023 22:37:01 GMT -5
I believe this is part of the problem alwaysbekind, you have never been in the situation where your child has been abused by a Worker so you don't really know how you would react. People on here have been. Trauma makes people react in different ways. Just for some clarity, can I ask if you were born and raised in the "Truth" and how many generations of your family are/were part of the church ? I agree trauma can change people, as I have experienced trauma in life (not SA/CSA) and have seen how it’s changed me. Yes I was. third generation. The other thing I think is that people have tried for many years to bring about change within the church in regard to CSA, alwaysbekindIn Australia friends and exs have been trying to talk to Workers and Overseers for years about this. Have you seen the 60 Minutes report that was done over here in 2019 ? Also Headworkers have been covering up abuse from 1970s, they knew about it but instead of doing something the workers involved were just moved to another area. That is why people on here get angry and can come across as bitter.
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Post by getreal on May 20, 2023 23:06:47 GMT -5
Yep, the slimy suck up persona, and the username made me nauseous from the get go. It didn't take long for the true colours to show through the shine. you are precisely reason my name is “always be kind”. I knew what was on here and the mean trash people like you say. Calling me a slimy suck up, without knowing anything about me and going on a whole lot of assumptions. I knew your type was on here and I would be a target, as a minority poster. So… I picked something that every time I logged on would remind me of how to treat people like you who I would really like to rip a new one. My username is a reminder for ME to always be kind, a self-righteous name that I’m calling myself. It’s so that I don’t stoop to your level and start calling you names (I have a few on my mind). And hey, if some of you get reminder to be a little bit more kind, even better! I am so not perfect, so that’s why I picked a little reminder for myself as a username to be a little bit more like Jesus in my answers. I’m a little curious what you think “my true colors are”, but I’m also really really really not interested or respect anything you have to say, at the same time. [ I know everything I need to know about you now when you call people “mean trash.” What will you say tomorrow before god. I pity you.
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Post by getreal on May 20, 2023 23:14:24 GMT -5
I do pity you. I didn’t say it to hurt. I sense you are youngish. Young in experience. You need to beat people. Come out on top. Win. Some day you will maybe find more compassion for others. You will judge less harshly. If you are hard on yourself you are hard on others. Wait a while before you speak more.
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Post by getreal on May 20, 2023 23:17:09 GMT -5
Having fun with you now. Maybe some humor will help you. Have you seen the movie Chicolat? You remind me of the Count. That’s all I will say. Good by
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Post by mrdobalina on May 20, 2023 23:44:43 GMT -5
you are precisely reason my name is “always be kind”. I knew what was on here and the mean trash people like you say. Calling me a slimy suck up, without knowing anything about me and going on a whole lot of assumptions. I knew your type was on here and I would be a target, as a minority poster. So… I picked something that every time I logged on would remind me of how to treat people like you who I would really like to rip a new one. My username is a reminder for ME to always be kind, a self-righteous name that I’m calling myself. It’s so that I don’t stoop to your level and start calling you names (I have a few on my mind). And hey, if some of you get reminder to be a little bit more kind, even better! I am so not perfect, so that’s why I picked a little reminder for myself as a username to be a little bit more like Jesus in my answers. I’m a little curious what you think “my true colors are”, but I’m also really really really not interested or respect anything you have to say, at the same time. [ I know everything I need to know about you now when you call people “mean trash.” What will you say tomorrow before god. I pity you. Bekind claims to be "a friend" that should be "a fair weather friend" as I'm well aware of what happens when a friend no longer lives up to the expectations of "a friend"
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 20, 2023 23:55:50 GMT -5
Do you believe that you can only be saved hearing the Gospel through the worker's and staying in the fellowship untill death? I do not believe thats true. I believe there will be those that arn't in the fellowship that will be in heaven, and there are those in the fellowship that won't be. Nor does that matter, I just have to make it, and encourage as many as possible to as well along the way! Do you see the fellowship as the truth or the way, or do you see Jesus as the Truth, Way and Life? I believe both. Jesus:"I am the way the truth the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". At it's core, this fellowship follows the Bible. It provides fellowship that feeds my soul and faith, I feel God's spirit in it. Is it the only way? It's the only way for me, thats all i know or really care about, if i'm honest. Can you shortly tell me what you believe a individual should do to be saved? Yes, the bible is your guide…everything is in there. its a great How-To Do you believe celibacy is a requirement to preach the Gospel? I'll be honest, i have NEVER even thought about this. therefore, i better chew on it a bit before answering, if thats okay? Do you see other Christian's outside your fellowship as unsaved? I believe all TRUE Christians will be saved, inside and out of the fellowship. I do also believe that jesus said: "straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and Few there be that find it. Have I found "it"? i think so! can others find "it" outside of the fellowship? i hope so! I hope every human will be saved, but Jesus made it clear FEW will find the way that leads to Life. Do you believe only the worker's are God's ordained preachers? I don't have experience enough with other preachers to say. i only have been to one other Sunday sermon. i did NOT feel God's spirit there. i'm not going to base all other preachers on that one experience. but i DO believe that the workers are God's ordained preachers. maybe Easier questions next time, eh? haha alwaysbekind was asked: Can you shortly tell me what you believe a individual should do to be saved? alwaysbekind responded "Yes, the bible is your guide…everything is in there. its a great How-To " I would humbly submit that any person or preacher in any church/denomination/group could give this answer. It is a complete non-answer. What exactly do you - alwaysbekind - do, that saves you? If a complete non-believer asked you this question, would you really give this response?
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Post by haggard on May 21, 2023 8:20:34 GMT -5
I do pity you. I didn’t say it to hurt. I sense you are youngish. Young in experience. You need to beat people. Come out on top. Win. Some day you will maybe find more compassion for others. You will judge less harshly. If you are hard on yourself you are hard on others. Wait a while before you speak more. when some one comes on with a name ..always be kind...and accuses people of being bitter,,,and dont recognize that they are betrayed and broken,,,does the story about the pharase ...come to mind? when our selfrightiousness and arrogance surpasses our kindness and concern,,,name hardly seems fitting
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Post by verna on May 21, 2023 11:10:12 GMT -5
I think he is very sincere. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you blaming him for your terrible experience? I don’t doubt what you say at all, don’t get me wrong. I understand. I was from the outside too and never quite fit in. I believe what you said about workers suffering. Maybe they should drop the pretense? Its so weird because in a way why should I care about this group anymore. I guess it is because my experience in it is still unresolved. I want that overseer or I should say overseers to apologize. To admit to everyone their actions and how they were wrong in detail. They aren’t admitting the true and complete story as yet. Sure, they write sanctimonious letters and empty generalized in nature apologies. They are hoping to skate through this largely unscathed. For this group to really heal, and for those of us who are left with wounds that keep opening up to begin to truly heal, everything needs to be owned up to. Everything. From the beginning until now. We need a Nurembourg of sorts. Dale Schulz likes everything on the surface to look good. That is his goal. Jack price is famous for saying the b and r have something the come from outside people just don’t have. He was proud, dangerous, cruel. I find even those who professed and left for less dramatic reasons are terribly naive. It’s coming out though. They need to be exposed. They damaged many, many people. I am not feeling strong so I am keeping quiet just now but I just need to thank you for speaking. Sending a virtual hug! 🤗
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Post by intelchips on May 21, 2023 12:06:37 GMT -5
Its so weird because in a way why should I care about this group anymore. I guess it is because my experience in it is still unresolved. I want that overseer or I should say overseers to apologize. To admit to everyone their actions and how they were wrong in detail. They aren’t admitting the true and complete story as yet. Sure, they write sanctimonious letters and empty generalized in nature apologies. They are hoping to skate through this largely unscathed. For this group to really heal, and for those of us who are left with wounds that keep opening up to begin to truly heal, everything needs to be owned up to. Everything. From the beginning until now. We need a Nurembourg of sorts. Dale Schulz likes everything on the surface to look good. That is his goal. Jack price is famous for saying the b and r have something the come from outside people just don’t have. He was proud, dangerous, cruel. I find even those who professed and left for less dramatic reasons are terribly naive. It’s coming out though. They need to be exposed. They damaged many, many people. I am not feeling strong so I am keeping quiet just now but I just need to thank you for speaking. Sending a virtual hug! 🤗 You should treat yourself to a pair of these:
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Post by Dan on May 21, 2023 12:52:03 GMT -5
alwaysbekind was asked: Can you shortly tell me what you believe a individual should do to be saved? alwaysbekind responded "Yes, the bible is your guide…everything is in there. its a great How-To " I would humbly submit that any person or preacher in any church/denomination/group could give this answer. It is a complete non-answer. What exactly do you - alwaysbekind - do, that saves you? If a complete non-believer asked you this question, would you really give this response? John 3:16.... But that seems too simple, lets complicate it and invent a ton of rules and restrictions.
Of course, making it to heaven is one thing, but I believe rewards will be dished out in accordance with individual faith/works. (Matthew 6:20).
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Post by intelchips on May 21, 2023 13:34:06 GMT -5
alwaysbekind was asked: Can you shortly tell me what you believe a individual should do to be saved? alwaysbekind responded "Yes, the bible is your guide…everything is in there. its a great How-To " I would humbly submit that any person or preacher in any church/denomination/group could give this answer. It is a complete non-answer. What exactly do you - alwaysbekind - do, that saves you? If a complete non-believer asked you this question, would you really give this response? John 3:16.... But that seems too simple, lets complicate it and invent a ton of rules and restrictions.
Of course, making it to heaven is one thing, but I believe rewards will be dished out in accordance with individual faith/works. (Matthew 6:20). Dan, here's a word or two on the unbelievers:
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Post by stargazer on May 21, 2023 13:49:14 GMT -5
you are precisely reason my name is “always be kind”. I knew what was on here and the mean trash people like you say. Calling me a slimy suck up, without knowing anything about me and going on a whole lot of assumptions. I knew your type was on here and I would be a target, as a minority poster. So… I picked something that every time I logged on would remind me of how to treat people like you who I would really like to rip a new one. My username is a reminder for ME to always be kind, a self-righteous name that I’m calling myself. It’s so that I don’t stoop to your level and start calling you names (I have a few on my mind). And hey, if some of you get reminder to be a little bit more kind, even better! I am so not perfect, so that’s why I picked a little reminder for myself as a username to be a little bit more like Jesus in my answers. I’m a little curious what you think “my true colors are”, but I’m also really really really not interested or respect anything you have to say, at the same time. [ I know everything I need to know about you now when you call people “mean trash.” What will you say tomorrow before god. I pity you. Wonder if you’re reading this wrong. Perhaps hear it like “people like you say mean trash”. Slightly different meaning than labeling you as “mean trash”. Lets face it, mean things are said here. And this is not mean? - which is what she was referring to from doblina “ Yep, the slimy suck up persona, and the username made me nauseous from the get go. It didn't take long for the true colours to show through the shine.”
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Post by getreal on May 21, 2023 14:06:12 GMT -5
[ I know everything I need to know about you now when you call people “mean trash.” What will you say tomorrow before god. I pity you. Wonder if you’re reading this wrong. Perhaps hear it like “people like you say mean trash”. Slightly different meaning than labeling you as “mean trash”. Lets face it, mean things are said here. And this is not mean, which is what she was referring to from doblina “ Yep, the slimy suck up persona, and the username made me nauseous from the get go. It didn't take long for the true colours to show through the shine.” Oh that could be. Sometimes phraseology gets interesting. Anyway, I don’t think anyone was particularly mean to him. If disagreeing or questioning your thinking is mean conversation, healthy give and take is nearly impossible. Even if someone says something you hear as mean spirited what should your response be as someone who is proclaiming to be, trying to be a child of god and says he is representing most of the friends. Sometimes what I see here and in politics and in religion and many hot topics is a polarized zero sum debate where if I win, you lose and it gets hostile pretty fast because the stakes are so high. Unfortunate. Are you one one of the friends?
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jane
Junior Member
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Post by jane on May 21, 2023 15:26:46 GMT -5
alwaysbekind , would you still have the same opinions if a Worker sexual abused one of your children? I assume you are in the US ? Great question. I understand that I don't know for sure, because its a hypothetical question. I do believe i still would have an open door to the workers. THAT particular worker would not be welcomed of course. That person would be sitting in jail. I don't dare lump together a whole group of people for a fews actions! thats not justice, thats not right. if your father was a child molester…i am very very sure you would not want to be thought of one too, and you would want to be judged on your own actions by people. same as me, and same of the other workers right now. can you imagine what the ones, who would never think of hurting a child, are dealing with right now? i know, because i have a few i communicate with frequently and its a witch hunt. the collateral damage causing trauma to the innocent is real. so yes, i believe i would compartmentalize the bad worker and fully stand beside the others, even if my own child was victimized.i would hope, as the years go by, i could forgive that worker, maybe even go see them in prison and have God work that mercy into my heart. To me, thats what i Believe Jesus would do. correct, i am in the USA Please dont say this is turning into a witch hunt. This is a time where survivors finally feel like someone will listen to them. We need to support people coming forward. By calling this a witch hunt, it hinders the process. it hinders survivors from coming forward and speaking their truth. If you are innocent, as a worker, you should feel happy this is taking place. Workers will no longer be fearful they will be companions with an abuser. Workers will no longer feel they have to keep secrets or hide abusers. Workers will be rebuilding trust in one another. Workers don't have to worry about being judged for asking for help and counseling. If we are reviewing incidents with workers and having awkward conversations, that does not mean it is a witch hunt. It means we are discussing, examining our behaviors and making healthy changes. There are many situations to think of...if a worker abused one of your children is only one. What if that worker abused your child and then your overseer (knowing what happened) moved that worker to South America? What if no one believed you and said you and your child were mentally ill? What if you found out that worker had been moved around and the overseer had knowledge they abused 12 kids before yours? What if the workers, friends and elders all defended that worker in the court of law? What if the abuser was offered 10 counseling sessions and then allowed back in the work? These are all real world experiences that have happened. and this is why some of us are so upset at the response to CSA. It is not as simple as one or two bad apples.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 21, 2023 20:49:48 GMT -5
Great question. I understand that I don't know for sure, because its a hypothetical question. I do believe i still would have an open door to the workers. THAT particular worker would not be welcomed of course. That person would be sitting in jail. I don't dare lump together a whole group of people for a fews actions! thats not justice, thats not right. if your father was a child molester…i am very very sure you would not want to be thought of one too, and you would want to be judged on your own actions by people. same as me, and same of the other workers right now. can you imagine what the ones, who would never think of hurting a child, are dealing with right now? i know, because i have a few i communicate with frequently and its a witch hunt. the collateral damage causing trauma to the innocent is real. so yes, i believe i would compartmentalize the bad worker and fully stand beside the others, even if my own child was victimized.i would hope, as the years go by, i could forgive that worker, maybe even go see them in prison and have God work that mercy into my heart. To me, thats what i Believe Jesus would do. correct, i am in the USA Please dont say this is turning into a witch hunt. This is a time where survivors finally feel like someone will listen to them. We need to support people coming forward. By calling this a witch hunt, it hinders the process. it hinders survivors from coming forward and speaking their truth. If you are innocent, as a worker, you should feel happy this is taking place. Workers will no longer be fearful they will be companions with an abuser. Workers will no longer feel they have to keep secrets or hide abusers. Workers will be rebuilding trust in one another. Workers don't have to worry about being judged for asking for help and counseling. If we are reviewing incidents with workers and having awkward conversations, that does not mean it is a witch hunt. It means we are discussing, examining our behaviors and making healthy changes. There are many situations to think of...if a worker abused one of your children is only one. What if that worker abused your child and then your overseer (knowing what happened) moved that worker to South America? What if no one believed you and said you and your child were mentally ill? What if you found out that worker had been moved around and the overseer had knowledge they abused 12 kids before yours? What if the workers, friends and elders all defended that worker in the court of law? What if the abuser was offered 10 counseling sessions and then allowed back in the work? These are all real world experiences that have happened. and this is why some of us are so upset at the response to CSA. It is not as simple as one or two bad apples. I am with you 100% on supporting victims coming forward and I am for that. I believe We are all working towards the same goal, which is no or minimal victims from here on out. I think we just have different strategies. But You are extremely naïve if you think that “reviewing situations with workers and having awkward conversations” is all that’s going on right now. A lot of People have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and are irate and irrational. I understand them being irate, as I am too. The amount of children, know and the Never known, breaks my heart. Trust that was taken advantage of, we feel betrayed. I never understand, and won’t tolerate, is taking it out on the innocent because of it. You and I both know there’s been a cover-up problem that is literally being uncovered as we speak, investigations by workers and overseers are being done, not just Cynthias investigation. So yes, to me, This is a witch hunt. the vernacular in my part of the country… this is what we call a witchhunt. You can’t sit there and tell me there isn’t unnecessary damaging shrapnel hitting brother and sister workers that are innocent. I disagree that by calling it a witch-hunt, This will deter victims from coming forward. I think people need to take a deep breath and and let things play out as for a while. I am tired of this being swept under the rug, and this feels 1 million times different, in a good way and houses are getting swept. There’s always room to be angry down the road, without causing real trauma to humans. Let’s not make a bigger mess out of this, and ruin more humans lives than what it already has. A common theme (which I agree with ) on this forum is “we shouldn’t idolize the workers, they are just humans too”. So Yes, let’s remember that… They are just humans too, we should treat them like it, not monsters. Even the perps are fragile souls that God cares about very much. And there’s still hope that they will be saved. Yes, throw them in jail, but I believe Jesus would treat them with the right spirit, which is different than my human nature would want to do to them. Fragile souls, as is you and I. That’s just my 2 cents. I just wrote and just erased two despicable personal instances of I was told directly from different workers a few days ago that would blow you away, but I do not feel like that is mine to share, out of respect for them.
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Post by Dan on May 21, 2023 21:35:26 GMT -5
John 3:16.... But that seems too simple, lets complicate it and invent a ton of rules and restrictions.
Of course, making it to heaven is one thing, but I believe rewards will be dished out in accordance with individual faith/works. (Matthew 6:20). Dan, here's a word or two on the unbelievers:
Imo, not being able to believe in God is not worse than murder, adultery, etc.. An atheist can have a change of heart, but a murderer can't undo a murder.
Many Christians struggle with belief from time to time themselves, so to classify that type of struggle as being worse than horrible sins or crimes is ridiculous.
I think what he's expressing is that unbelief is the root of awful lawless acts, such as over 63 million abortions occurring in America? An atheist will detest a God for killing the Canaanites, while simultaneously supporting the same evil deeds that made God angry enough to order their deaths. In that respect, disbelief could be construed as the root of all evil.
But I've known atheist and agnostics who are more trustworthy and upright than some believers, and I've known Christians who commit adultery and have gotten abortions.
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jane
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by jane on May 21, 2023 21:55:42 GMT -5
Please dont say this is turning into a witch hunt. This is a time where survivors finally feel like someone will listen to them. We need to support people coming forward. By calling this a witch hunt, it hinders the process. it hinders survivors from coming forward and speaking their truth. If you are innocent, as a worker, you should feel happy this is taking place. Workers will no longer be fearful they will be companions with an abuser. Workers will no longer feel they have to keep secrets or hide abusers. Workers will be rebuilding trust in one another. Workers don't have to worry about being judged for asking for help and counseling. If we are reviewing incidents with workers and having awkward conversations, that does not mean it is a witch hunt. It means we are discussing, examining our behaviors and making healthy changes. There are many situations to think of...if a worker abused one of your children is only one. What if that worker abused your child and then your overseer (knowing what happened) moved that worker to South America? What if no one believed you and said you and your child were mentally ill? What if you found out that worker had been moved around and the overseer had knowledge they abused 12 kids before yours? What if the workers, friends and elders all defended that worker in the court of law? What if the abuser was offered 10 counseling sessions and then allowed back in the work? These are all real world experiences that have happened. and this is why some of us are so upset at the response to CSA. It is not as simple as one or two bad apples. I am with you 100% on supporting victims coming forward and I am for that. I believe We are all working towards the same goal, which is no or minimal victims from here on out. I think we just have different strategies. But You are extremely naïve if you think that “reviewing situations with workers and having awkward conversations” is all that’s going on right now. A lot of People have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and are irate and irrational. I understand them being irate, as I am too. The amount of children, know and the Never known, breaks my heart. Trust that was taken advantage of, we feel betrayed. I never understand, and won’t tolerate, is taking it out on the innocent because of it. You and I both know there’s been a cover-up problem that is literally being uncovered as we speak, investigations by workers and overseers are being done, not just Cynthias investigation. So yes, to me, This is a witch hunt. the vernacular in my part of the country… this is what we call a witchhunt. You can’t sit there and tell me there isn’t unnecessary damaging shrapnel hitting brother and sister workers that are innocent. I disagree that by calling it a witch-hunt, This will deter victims from coming forward. I think people need to take a deep breath and and let things play out as for a while. I am tired of this being swept under the rug, and this feels 1 million times different, in a good way and houses are getting swept. There’s always room to be angry down the road, without causing real trauma to humans. Let’s not make a bigger mess out of this, and ruin more humans lives than what it already has. A common theme (which I agree with ) on this forum is “we shouldn’t idolize the workers, they are just humans too”. So Yes, let’s remember that… They are just humans too, we should treat them like it, not monsters. Even the perps are fragile souls that God cares about very much. And there’s still hope that they will be saved. Yes, throw them in jail, but I believe Jesus would treat them with the right spirit, which is different than my human nature would want to do to them. Fragile souls, as is you and I. That’s just my 2 cents. I just wrote and just erased two despicable personal instances of I was told directly from different workers a few days ago that would blow you away, but I do not feel like that is mine to share, out of respect for them. My experience with the phrase 'this is turning into a witch hunt' was with MH from WA. When the first allegation came forward, many did not believe it and said it was a witch hunt. It turns out-it was just the beginning of credible allegations that came forward. Since then, i have found where there is one allegation, there are many more that come forward. But, i hear you say many workers are being disrespected, i am not in support of that. Not at all. Especially if they have had no hand in any of this mess.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 21, 2023 22:37:23 GMT -5
I am with you 100% on supporting victims coming forward and I am for that. I believe We are all working towards the same goal, which is no or minimal victims from here on out. I think we just have different strategies. But You are extremely naïve if you think that “reviewing situations with workers and having awkward conversations” is all that’s going on right now. A lot of People have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and are irate and irrational. I understand them being irate, as I am too. The amount of children, know and the Never known, breaks my heart. Trust that was taken advantage of, we feel betrayed. I never understand, and won’t tolerate, is taking it out on the innocent because of it. You and I both know there’s been a cover-up problem that is literally being uncovered as we speak, investigations by workers and overseers are being done, not just Cynthias investigation. So yes, to me, This is a witch hunt. the vernacular in my part of the country… this is what we call a witchhunt. You can’t sit there and tell me there isn’t unnecessary damaging shrapnel hitting brother and sister workers that are innocent. I disagree that by calling it a witch-hunt, This will deter victims from coming forward. I think people need to take a deep breath and and let things play out as for a while. I am tired of this being swept under the rug, and this feels 1 million times different, in a good way and houses are getting swept. There’s always room to be angry down the road, without causing real trauma to humans. Let’s not make a bigger mess out of this, and ruin more humans lives than what it already has. A common theme (which I agree with ) on this forum is “we shouldn’t idolize the workers, they are just humans too”. So Yes, let’s remember that… They are just humans too, we should treat them like it, not monsters. Even the perps are fragile souls that God cares about very much. And there’s still hope that they will be saved. Yes, throw them in jail, but I believe Jesus would treat them with the right spirit, which is different than my human nature would want to do to them. Fragile souls, as is you and I. That’s just my 2 cents. I just wrote and just erased two despicable personal instances of I was told directly from different workers a few days ago that would blow you away, but I do not feel like that is mine to share, out of respect for them. Do you hear the people sing? Singing the song of angry men? It is the music of the people Who will not be slaves again! When the beating of your heart Echoes the beating of the drums There is a life about to start When tomorrow comes! Will you join in our crusade? Who will be strong and stand with me? Beyond the barricade Is there a world you long to see? Then join in the fight That will give you the right to be free! Those "irate and irrational people" are singing the songs of angry men (and women and children). After decades of being picked up for dress codes, hairstyles, stocking colours, banned from celebrating Christmas, not owning a tv or radio, being forced to divorce from happy marriages, being forced to stay with domestic violence partners, etc. etc. ... Only to discover the "Lord's anointed" are corrupt, committing crimes and adultery, fornication, covering up all of the same. You bet the people are "irate and irrational". For years the story was spun that the workers are God's only true agents, his true disciples/apostles, the only gateway to salvation. This is what gave them authority and the right to control. Now we're being told "they just normal people". Right. So let's scrap the myths and let the truth about the truth free. Let's hear no more from the platfrom about workers being "the Lord's anointed". These "normal people" - even the most innocent ones - might just need to come to terms with what it is they're a part of. And listen to the songs of angry men for a while.
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Post by getreal on May 21, 2023 23:26:33 GMT -5
Please dont say this is turning into a witch hunt. This is a time where survivors finally feel like someone will listen to them. We need to support people coming forward. By calling this a witch hunt, it hinders the process. it hinders survivors from coming forward and speaking their truth. If you are innocent, as a worker, you should feel happy this is taking place. Workers will no longer be fearful they will be companions with an abuser. Workers will no longer feel they have to keep secrets or hide abusers. Workers will be rebuilding trust in one another. Workers don't have to worry about being judged for asking for help and counseling. If we are reviewing incidents with workers and having awkward conversations, that does not mean it is a witch hunt. It means we are discussing, examining our behaviors and making healthy changes. There are many situations to think of...if a worker abused one of your children is only one. What if that worker abused your child and then your overseer (knowing what happened) moved that worker to South America? What if no one believed you and said you and your child were mentally ill? What if you found out that worker had been moved around and the overseer had knowledge they abused 12 kids before yours? What if the workers, friends and elders all defended that worker in the court of law? What if the abuser was offered 10 counseling sessions and then allowed back in the work? These are all real world experiences that have happened. and this is why some of us are so upset at the response to CSA. It is not as simple as one or two bad apples. I am with you 100% on supporting victims coming forward and I am for that. I believe We are all working towards the same goal, which is no or minimal victims from here on out. I think we just have different strategies. But You are extremely naïve if you think that “reviewing situations with workers and having awkward conversations” is all that’s going on right now. A lot of People have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and are irate and irrational. I understand them being irate, as I am too. The amount of children, know and the Never known, breaks my heart. Trust that was taken advantage of, we feel betrayed. I never understand, and won’t tolerate, is taking it out on the innocent because of it. You and I both know there’s been a cover-up problem that is literally being uncovered as we speak, investigations by workers and overseers are being done, not just Cynthias investigation. So yes, to me, This is a witch hunt. the vernacular in my part of the country… this is what we call a witchhunt. You can’t sit there and tell me there isn’t unnecessary damaging shrapnel hitting brother and sister workers that are innocent. I disagree that by calling it a witch-hunt, This will deter victims from coming forward. I think people need to take a deep breath and and let things play out as for a while. I am tired of this being swept under the rug, and this feels 1 million times different, in a good way and houses are getting swept. There’s always room to be angry down the road, without causing real trauma to humans. Let’s not make a bigger mess out of this, and ruin more humans lives than what it already has. A common theme (which I agree with ) on this forum is “we shouldn’t idolize the workers, they are just humans too”. So Yes, let’s remember that… They are just humans too, we should treat them like it, not monsters. Even the perps are fragile souls that God cares about very much. And there’s still hope that they will be saved. Yes, throw them in jail, but I believe Jesus would treat them with the right spirit, which is different than my human nature would want to do to them. Fragile souls, as is you and I. That’s just my 2 cents. I just wrote and just erased two despicable personal instances of I was told directly from different workers a few days ago that would blow you away, but I do not feel like that is mine to share, out of respect for them. [ Let us take a step back and reconsider the use of the word “witch hunt.” Persecution of women, salem witch trials, bad history. How about we just leave that out of the conversation.
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Post by getreal on May 22, 2023 0:28:54 GMT -5
Ok I made a small and probably unimportant point about witches. This is all getting so complicated. It really isn’t. There are victims, of all kinds of abuse and just mistreatment by men, by older workers. Its systemic. Yes. Its a system that needs examining and correcting or why would all this happen. Its not ok to say when making one argument that workers are called of god and we must respect and yay follow and obey them, , and then when they make mistakes, well don’t be so hard on them because they are just human and cut them a break. Yes, they are humans just doing a job. People doing jobs need to be held accountable. Even Darryl Doland said recently, in a letter that sounded like he was running for the overseer position in wa state, he proclaimed “hold me accountable.” Maybe the conversation should just move on to what that accountability structure should look like. That is what is needed.
And can I say, having been in the work a good while, people go into the work for all kinds of reasons. Sure some may feel truly called. But let’s be honest, I myself would need more than 2 hands to count all the workers that are gay who chose the only way forward to remain in the church and have a shot at a somewhat full life. Some go because marriage just doesn’t work out for them and they are just, available. Some are just confused and feel like they don’t fit anywhere and think they are being called. I looked up how long it takes to become a catholic priest and it is 6 to 8 years of education and preparation to be sure you are ready for a celibate life and even then they have a boatload of problems. Although, they are working on it and to their credit, making strides. I was accepted into the work way too soon and I saw so many who didn’t work out. Pun intended. These are all more systemic issues. The church needs to grow up and admit they are a church organization presently ruled by a male worker autocracy and it hasn’t worked well enough. How many victims do they need to admit it. Not just csa and sa although that would be plenty but other many’many signs and symptoms of dysfunction described by so many here and frankly if the friends don’t admit it, the workers know! The workers need some oversight. They can’t be given a blank check of trust. What should that look like. This is the question.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 22, 2023 0:31:14 GMT -5
Ok I made a small and probably unimportant point about witches. This is all getting so complicated. It really isn’t. There are victims, of all kinds of abuse and just mistreatment by men, by older workers. Its systemic. Yes. Its a system that needs examining and correcting or why would all this happen. Its not ok to say when making one argument that workers are called of god and we must respect and yay follow and obey them, , and then when they make mistakes, well don’t be so hard on them because they are just human and cut them a break. Yes, they are humans just doing a job. People doing jobs need to be held accountable. Even Darryl Doland said recently, in a letter that sounded like he was running for the overseer position in wa state, he proclaimed “hold me accountable.” Maybe the conversation should just move on to what that accountability structure should look like. That is what is needed. And can I say, having been in the work a good while, people go into the work for all kinds of reasons. Sure some may feel truly called. But let’s be honest, I myself would need more than 2 hands to count all the workers that are gay who chose the only way forward to remain in the church and have a shot at a somewhat full life. Some go because marriage just doesn’t work out for them and they are just, available. Some are just confused and feel like they don’t fit anywhere and think they are being called. I looked up how long it takes to become a catholic priest and it is 6 to 8 years of education and preparation to be sure you are ready for a celibate life and even then they have a boatload of problems. Although, they are working on it and to their credit, making strides. I was accepted into the work way too soon and I saw so many who didn’t work out. Pun intended. These are all more systemic issues. The church needs to grow up and admit they are a church organization presently ruled by a male worker autocracy and it hasn’t worked well enough. How many victims do they need to admit it. Not just csa and sa although that would be plenty but other many’many signs and symptoms of dysfunction described by so many here and frankly if the friends don’t admit it, the workers know! The workers need some oversight. They can’t be given a blank check of trust. What should that look like. This is the question. You make a lot of good points getreal.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 22, 2023 0:55:36 GMT -5
Please dont say this is turning into a witch hunt. This is a time where survivors finally feel like someone will listen to them. We need to support people coming forward. By calling this a witch hunt, it hinders the process. it hinders survivors from coming forward and speaking their truth. If you are innocent, as a worker, you should feel happy this is taking place. Workers will no longer be fearful they will be companions with an abuser. Workers will no longer feel they have to keep secrets or hide abusers. Workers will be rebuilding trust in one another. Workers don't have to worry about being judged for asking for help and counseling. If we are reviewing incidents with workers and having awkward conversations, that does not mean it is a witch hunt. It means we are discussing, examining our behaviors and making healthy changes. There are many situations to think of...if a worker abused one of your children is only one. What if that worker abused your child and then your overseer (knowing what happened) moved that worker to South America? What if no one believed you and said you and your child were mentally ill? What if you found out that worker had been moved around and the overseer had knowledge they abused 12 kids before yours? What if the workers, friends and elders all defended that worker in the court of law? What if the abuser was offered 10 counseling sessions and then allowed back in the work? These are all real world experiences that have happened. and this is why some of us are so upset at the response to CSA. It is not as simple as one or two bad apples. I am with you 100% on supporting victims coming forward and I am for that. I believe We are all working towards the same goal, which is no or minimal victims from here on out. I think we just have different strategies. But You are extremely naïve if you think that “reviewing situations with workers and having awkward conversations” is all that’s going on right now. A lot of People have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and are irate and irrational. I understand them being irate, as I am too. The amount of children, know and the Never known, breaks my heart. Trust that was taken advantage of, we feel betrayed. I never understand, and won’t tolerate, is taking it out on the innocent because of it. You and I both know there’s been a cover-up problem that is literally being uncovered as we speak, investigations by workers and overseers are being done, not just Cynthias investigation. So yes, to me, This is a witch hunt. the vernacular in my part of the country… this is what we call a witchhunt. You can’t sit there and tell me there isn’t unnecessary damaging shrapnel hitting brother and sister workers that are innocent. I disagree that by calling it a witch-hunt, This will deter victims from coming forward. I think people need to take a deep breath and and let things play out as for a while. I am tired of this being swept under the rug, and this feels 1 million times different, in a good way and houses are getting swept. There’s always room to be angry down the road, without causing real trauma to humans. Let’s not make a bigger mess out of this, and ruin more humans lives than what it already has. A common theme (which I agree with ) on this forum is “we shouldn’t idolize the workers, they are just humans too”. So Yes, let’s remember that… They are just humans too, we should treat them like it, not monsters. Even the perps are fragile souls that God cares about very much. And there’s still hope that they will be saved. Yes, throw them in jail, but I believe Jesus would treat them with the right spirit, which is different than my human nature would want to do to them. Fragile souls, as is you and I. That’s just my 2 cents. I just wrote and just erased two despicable personal instances of I was told directly from different workers a few days ago that would blow you away, but I do not feel like that is mine to share, out of respect for them. It reminds me of the Salem witch hunt that was instigated by christians. Innocent people were murdered on the say so of a religion drunk on power. How's it feel to have the fires licking around your own feet now?
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Post by getreal on May 22, 2023 1:40:53 GMT -5
They are scared. As in the brother workers. The friends have lots of power but they act like they don’t. The workers are totally dependent. All the money they have? Its not theirs. You friends, the money is yours. It is yours. Literally. All the power? Given to them by the friends. The workers do not own this church. Stand up and take it back. The workers will quickly fall into line. Many of them no longer know how to make a living for themselves. In the process some will leave. That is ok.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 22, 2023 1:51:57 GMT -5
They are scared. As in the brother workers. The friends have lots of power but they act like they don’t. The workers are totally dependent. All the money they have? Its not theirs. You friends, the money is yours. It is yours. Literally. All the power? Given to them by the friends. The workers do not own this church. Stand up and take it back. The workers will quickly fall into line. Many of them no longer know how to make a living for themselves. In the process some will leave. That is ok. Well said and I have advocated for something similar. The trouble is the workewrs will say that if the friends do this they are off to hell on a hand cart. And the friends will believe them. I would say that the workers have the friends by the short and curleys but that would be wrong as they don't appear to have any.
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Post by getreal on May 22, 2023 2:11:32 GMT -5
You are funny. We need a laugh in this disgusting mess now and again to cope and as a rspote. I love how you aussies talk. Really want to visit your country. We are moving to victoria bc and were up there on business recently and ran into a tour group from Australia in a hotel and had a great visit.
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Post by getreal on May 22, 2023 2:12:59 GMT -5
Respite not rspote as my thumbs typed.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 22, 2023 2:38:54 GMT -5
You are funny. We need a laugh in this disgusting mess now and again to cope and as a rspote. I love how you aussies talk. Really want to visit your country. We are moving to victoria bc and were up there on business recently and ran into a tour group from Australia in a hotel and had a great visit. How dare you say I am from Aussy. I am a kiwi. Both Australia and NZ have a lot to see. I would love to see some of BC, also parts of Washington state such as Rainier. I think these old legs could still get me up there. You are right about having a laugh. There has been so much revealed of how sordid and immoral many of the meeting people are that it has made me quite sad. It is depressing. I can no longer read all the posts about it.
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Post by getreal on May 22, 2023 2:44:11 GMT -5
Oh so sorry. The ultimate insult. Can I ask…do you know Denise braugh…spelling wrong I am sure. I knew her well and wonder she is. Worry actually.
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