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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 8:49:39 GMT -5
I may regret this, but let’s give it a go…
In reading a lot of threads on here, it seems like there are some on here with genuine interests, questions about friends or meetings, the truth, or workers, etc. This isn’t about me, but I’m very happy going to meetings and secure in that and who I am. Please keep things respectful, even if you disagree. It’s okay if humans disagree. Let’s have good, profitable dialogue. I think there could be a better bridge between those inside and outside of the truth or those questioning or struggling, and I hope maybe I can help a small amount with that.
I’m happy to talk about almost anything: doctrine, thoughts/feelings towards things, CSA (although this is triggering for people and a lot of the discussions I see arnt very profitable and heated), why I go, etc. feel free to send a personal message, if you’d rather. I’ll keep it confidential, and I’ll be respectful.
Troublemakers: please do not comment. I’d like only profitable, good discussion/debates from those with good motives. Let’s be adults, please.
**IMPORTANT- one person, myself included, cannot represent any organization as a whole. I can only discuss my lifetime experience in it and my point of view. I do feel I have a pretty good pulse on a lot of the friends and workers, and many are my dear friends, and I think I can speak for most.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2023 9:15:36 GMT -5
Do be aware that others here are very difficult with those that are the friends...
Were you born and raised or came in later?
I vaguely knew of it but came in later 11/12 professed at 14.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 9:29:59 GMT -5
Do be aware that others here are very difficult with those that are the friends... Were you born and raised or came in later? I vaguely knew of it but came in later 11/12 professed at 14. Thank you! Yes, I’m aware, and this may be a mistake, in which case I’ll quit participating. However, I’d like to give it a chance. I believe it’s worth it to allow some that may be wanting to ask questions, but weren’t given the opportunity or didn’t feel comfortable. Maybe some lurkers on here too afraid to ask in fear of getting treated nastily.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 9:31:29 GMT -5
Do be aware that others here are very difficult with those that are the friends... Were you born and raised or came in later? I vaguely knew of it but came in later 11/12 professed at 14. Oops sorry, didn’t answer your question, yes born into this.
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jane
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by jane on May 19, 2023 10:19:28 GMT -5
I may regret this, but let’s give it a go… In reading a lot of threads on here, it seems like there are some on here with genuine interests, questions about friends or meetings, the truth, or workers, etc. This isn’t about me, but I’m very happy going to meetings and secure in that and who I am. Please keep things respectful, even if you disagree. It’s okay if humans disagree. Let’s have good, profitable dialogue. I think there could be a better bridge between those inside and outside of the truth or those questioning or struggling, and I hope maybe I can help a small amount with that. I’m happy to talk about almost anything: doctrine, thoughts/feelings towards things, CSA (although this is triggering for people and a lot of the discussions I see arnt very profitable and heated), why I go, etc. Troublemakers: please do not comment. I’d like only profitable, good discussion/debates from those with good motives. Let’s be adults, please. **IMPORTANT- one person, myself included, cannot represent any organization as a whole. I can only discuss my lifetime experience in it and my point of view. I do feel I have a pretty good pulse on a lot of the friends and workers, and many are my dear friends, and I think I can speak for most. Do you recognize that CSA is a symptom of foundational problems? and what changes do you feel need to be made in order to make this faith safe and healthy? Do you think those changes will actually happen? Are you comfortable following the guidance of God even when it goes against tradition or the workers wishes?
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Post by Umfolozi on May 19, 2023 11:28:06 GMT -5
Do you believe that you can only be saved hearing the Gospel through the worker's and staying in the fellowship untill death? Do you see the fellowship as the truth or the way, or do you see Jesus as the Truth, Way and Life? Can you shortly tell me what you believe a individual should do to be saved? Do you believe celibacy is a requirement to preach the Gospel? Do you see other Christian's outside your fellowship as unsaved? Do you believe only the worker's are God's ordained preachers?
Is your initials T.H? You can pm me with that one if you whish.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on May 19, 2023 11:37:08 GMT -5
I hope you don’t get attacked too badly. Be aware there are some posters here that are SUPER sensitive to any kind of disagreement or criticism or correction. They will be nice to you as long as you agree with them. If you disagree, watch out. And then they will gang up on you.
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Post by Umfolozi on May 19, 2023 12:13:51 GMT -5
Rest assured I won't be one of them, I will tell you if I agree or not and if you want my thoughts on it then I will give it to you, I have allready summed it up nicely many year's ago.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 12:36:50 GMT -5
I may regret this, but let’s give it a go… In reading a lot of threads on here, it seems like there are some on here with genuine interests, questions about friends or meetings, the truth, or workers, etc. This isn’t about me, but I’m very happy going to meetings and secure in that and who I am. Please keep things respectful, even if you disagree. It’s okay if humans disagree. Let’s have good, profitable dialogue. I think there could be a better bridge between those inside and outside of the truth or those questioning or struggling, and I hope maybe I can help a small amount with that. I’m happy to talk about almost anything: doctrine, thoughts/feelings towards things, CSA (although this is triggering for people and a lot of the discussions I see arnt very profitable and heated), why I go, etc. Troublemakers: please do not comment. I’d like only profitable, good discussion/debates from those with good motives. Let’s be adults, please. **IMPORTANT- one person, myself included, cannot represent any organization as a whole. I can only discuss my lifetime experience in it and my point of view. I do feel I have a pretty good pulse on a lot of the friends and workers, and many are my dear friends, and I think I can speak for most. Do you recognize that CSA is a symptom of foundational problems? and what changes do you feel need to be made in order to make this faith safe and healthy? Do you think those changes will actually happen? Are you comfortable following the guidance of God even when it goes against tradition or the workers wishes? Heavy, but great questions! I hardly feel adequate in replying, but I'll try. Could you give me specific reasons on what foundational problems you are referring to? CSA is a worldwide problem (including the truth). i don't know exactly what you are referring to. I, personally, feel that this faith is safe and healthy but I also believe we can make it safer. I spent a lot of alone time with friends and workers growing up, as did my siblings, and theres been no incidents in our family. I'm not blind in that there are a lot of victims in the truth, too. I believe the lowest hanging fruit for change is educating ourselves, and our children about CSA. Talk to our children, let them know what is and isn't appropriate and that its not their fault if something happens. Also, that they won't get into trouble if they tell the parents. then call a Victim hotline if your unsure, or straight to authorities if its obvious. This is the first line of defense, and effective or CSA with teachers, uncles, grandparents, workers, friends, etc. Next, as guardians, realizing that this CAN happen to your children and those you love and trust. Maybe don't let our kids (best we can) be put in a vulnerable spot. Another change is not sweeping it under the rug. Society and the Truth in general are finally getting around to this i.e. MeToo movement. Previous generations did not. Sweeping it under the rug does not detract perps, if they know they can get away with it. If they know they will be exposed and in jail, won't that deter a lot of them? This is good. From what I have heard, I believe all of these are happening as we speak. to what extent? nobody knows. I do know there are families having awkward, but valuable conversations with their children. Parents more aware. Friends and workers exposed and removed from meetings/children. Yes, At the end of the day, I am subject only to God and Jesus. If I ever feel like God's spirit wasn't in the meeting, I'd be gone. If a worker asked me to do something thats not right, i wouldnt do it. Jesus' blood ONLY is my hope of salvation. My faith is (or should be) in Jesus and God. I will be judged alone one day on my life, not the fact that I'm "in the truth" or not. I love the workers and friends. I love meetings. I love this way. it adds to my faith. But my faith is primarily in God, and I have to be true to that. I hope this answered some of your questions, even if you may not agree?
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Post by Umfolozi on May 19, 2023 12:41:51 GMT -5
Do you except some worker's excuses for not handling CSA,SA when they say thing's as they didn't realize the effects of these crimes on the victims or it's been a learning curve for them regarding how to appropriately handle these crimes? Do you believe that believers can never take each other to court? Do you think we truely get to know each other as worker's and friends even though we are allways or mostly in a guest/ host relationship? Do you believe the fellowship trickles down directly from the apostle day's, not spiritually but literally?
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Post by mountain on May 19, 2023 13:03:58 GMT -5
Do you recognize that CSA is a symptom of foundational problems? and what changes do you feel need to be made in order to make this faith safe and healthy? Do you think those changes will actually happen? Are you comfortable following the guidance of God even when it goes against tradition or the workers wishes? Heavy, but great questions! I hardly feel adequate in replying, but I'll try. Could you give me specific reasons on what foundational problems you are referring to? CSA is a worldwide problem (including the truth). i don't know exactly what you are referring to. I, personally, feel that this faith is safe and healthy but I also believe we can make it safer. I spent a lot of alone time with friends and workers growing up, as did my siblings, and theres been no incidents in our family. I'm not blind in that there are a lot of victims in the truth, too. I believe the lowest hanging fruit for change is educating ourselves, and our children about CSA. Talk to our children, let them know what is and isn't appropriate and that its not their fault if something happens. Also, that they won't get into trouble if they tell the parents. then call a Victim hotline if your unsure, or straight to authorities if its obvious. This is the first line of defense, and effective or CSA with teachers, uncles, grandparents, workers, friends, etc. Next, as guardians, realizing that this CAN happen to your children and those you love and trust. Maybe don't let our kids (best we can) be put in a vulnerable spot. Another change is not sweeping it under the rug. Society and the Truth in general are finally getting around to this i.e. MeToo movement. Previous generations did not. Sweeping it under the rug does not detract perps, if they know they can get away with it. If they know they will be exposed and in jail, won't that deter a lot of them? This is good. From what I have heard, I believe all of these are happening as we speak. to what extent? nobody knows. I do know there are families having awkward, but valuable conversations with their children. Parents more aware. Friends and workers exposed and removed from meetings/children. Yes, At the end of the day, I am subject only to God and Jesus. If I ever feel like God's spirit wasn't in the meeting, I'd be gone. If a worker asked me to do something thats not right, i wouldnt do it. Jesus' blood ONLY is my hope of salvation. My faith is (or should be) in Jesus and God. I will be judged alone one day on my life, not the fact that I'm "in the truth" or not. I love the workers and friends. I love meetings. I love this way. it adds to my faith. But my faith is primarily in God, and I have to be true to that. I hope this answered some of your questions, even if you may not agree? The emboldened relies on responding after something has happened. The first line of defence against criminal behaviour is to REDUCE OPPORTUNITIES for the criminal and this also reduces temptation. There is absolutely no need for workers to stay in the homes where there are unrelated children or other vulnerable people. There are other such sensible measures appropriate to circumstances to reduce opportunities. Stop protecting the ministry system. Protect children and other vulnerable persons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2023 13:16:53 GMT -5
Do you believe that you can only be saved hearing the Gospel through the worker's and staying in the fellowship untill death? Do you see the fellowship as the truth or the way, or do you see Jesus as the Truth, Way and Life? Can you shortly tell me what you believe a individual should do to be saved? Do you believe celibacy is a requirement to preach the Gospel? Do you see other Christian's outside your fellowship as unsaved? Do you believe only the worker's are God's ordained preachers? Is your initials T.H? You can pm me with that one if you whish. Not always but I'll answer these... No. Jesus is the way, and the 1st century church is how he wanted it setup, "The Truth" is another attempt to do that... Believe, repent, obey, bare fruit/proof of progress. I'd say 99% Yes, that it would be best if someone were celibate/single to be a full time "preacher". Christ is the #1 example for that. Not all "Christians" will be saved same for The Truth. No.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2023 13:19:48 GMT -5
Do you except some worker's excuses for not handling CSA,SA when they say thing's as they didn't realize the effects of these crimes on the victims or it's been a learning curve for them regarding how to appropriately handle these crimes? Do you believe that believers can never take each other to court? Do you think we truely get to know each other as worker's and friends even though we are allways or mostly in a guest/ host relationship? Do you believe the fellowship trickles down directly from the apostle day's, not spiritually but literally? Some Yes, I wasn't aware until I got here on TMB, that there was a law from about 1974 that requires reporting. I ASSume others in The Truth could be the same. No. Yes. Generally, it never stays guest/host. No.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 13:29:48 GMT -5
Do you believe that you can only be saved hearing the Gospel through the worker's and staying in the fellowship untill death? I do not believe thats true. I believe there will be those that arn't in the fellowship that will be in heaven, and there are those in the fellowship that won't be. Nor does that matter, I just have to make it, and encourage as many as possible to as well along the way! Do you see the fellowship as the truth or the way, or do you see Jesus as the Truth, Way and Life? I believe both. Jesus:"I am the way the truth the life. No one comes to the Father except through me". At it's core, this fellowship follows the Bible. It provides fellowship that feeds my soul and faith, I feel God's spirit in it. Is it the only way? It's the only way for me, thats all i know or really care about, if i'm honest. Can you shortly tell me what you believe a individual should do to be saved? Yes, the bible is your guide…everything is in there. its a great How-To Do you believe celibacy is a requirement to preach the Gospel? I'll be honest, i have NEVER even thought about this. therefore, i better chew on it a bit before answering, if thats okay? Do you see other Christian's outside your fellowship as unsaved? I believe all TRUE Christians will be saved, inside and out of the fellowship. I do also believe that jesus said: "straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and Few there be that find it. Have I found "it"? i think so! can others find "it" outside of the fellowship? i hope so! I hope every human will be saved, but Jesus made it clear FEW will find the way that leads to Life. Do you believe only the worker's are God's ordained preachers? I don't have experience enough with other preachers to say. i only have been to one other Sunday sermon. i did NOT feel God's spirit there. i'm not going to base all other preachers on that one experience. but i DO believe that the workers are God's ordained preachers. maybe Easier questions next time, eh? haha
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 13:47:51 GMT -5
Heavy, but great questions! I hardly feel adequate in replying, but I'll try. Could you give me specific reasons on what foundational problems you are referring to? CSA is a worldwide problem (including the truth). i don't know exactly what you are referring to. I, personally, feel that this faith is safe and healthy but I also believe we can make it safer. I spent a lot of alone time with friends and workers growing up, as did my siblings, and theres been no incidents in our family. I'm not blind in that there are a lot of victims in the truth, too. I believe the lowest hanging fruit for change is educating ourselves, and our children about CSA. Talk to our children, let them know what is and isn't appropriate and that its not their fault if something happens. Also, that they won't get into trouble if they tell the parents. then call a Victim hotline if your unsure, or straight to authorities if its obvious. This is the first line of defense, and effective or CSA with teachers, uncles, grandparents, workers, friends, etc. Next, as guardians, realizing that this CAN happen to your children and those you love and trust. Maybe don't let our kids (best we can) be put in a vulnerable spot. Another change is not sweeping it under the rug. Society and the Truth in general are finally getting around to this i.e. MeToo movement. Previous generations did not. Sweeping it under the rug does not detract perps, if they know they can get away with it. If they know they will be exposed and in jail, won't that deter a lot of them? This is good. From what I have heard, I believe all of these are happening as we speak. to what extent? nobody knows. I do know there are families having awkward, but valuable conversations with their children. Parents more aware. Friends and workers exposed and removed from meetings/children. Yes, At the end of the day, I am subject only to God and Jesus. If I ever feel like God's spirit wasn't in the meeting, I'd be gone. If a worker asked me to do something thats not right, i wouldnt do it. Jesus' blood ONLY is my hope of salvation. My faith is (or should be) in Jesus and God. I will be judged alone one day on my life, not the fact that I'm "in the truth" or not. I love the workers and friends. I love meetings. I love this way. it adds to my faith. But my faith is primarily in God, and I have to be true to that. I hope this answered some of your questions, even if you may not agree? The emboldened relies on responding after something has happened. The first line of defence against criminal behaviour is to REDUCE OPPORTUNITIES for the criminal and this also reduces temptation. There is absolutely no need for workers to stay in the homes where there are unrelated children or other vulnerable people. There are other such sensible measures appropriate to circumstances to reduce opportunities. Stop protecting the ministry system. Protect children and other vulnerable persons. You are right, I got that wrong. That's for after something happens. It is something we can do first, but definitely not the first line of defense. I disagree with never having workers staying in my home, but I respect how you feel. If that's your train of thought…I'd also suggest that you do not allow family in your home, as 40% of CSA victims are from family members. and also no friends over or no kids leaving your site as over 90% of victims are from perps they and/or the family trust. I guess it all comes down to a)how much risk is there and b)how much risk are we willing to tolerate, and thats for each of us make for themselves. 1 in 4 girls are victims of CSA, so this is not just a truth issue, but a society issue as well. something to keep in mind.
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Post by mountain on May 19, 2023 13:57:24 GMT -5
The emboldened relies on responding after something has happened. The first line of defence against criminal behaviour is to REDUCE OPPORTUNITIES for the criminal and this also reduces temptation. There is absolutely no need for workers to stay in the homes where there are unrelated children or other vulnerable people. There are other such sensible measures appropriate to circumstances to reduce opportunities. Stop protecting the ministry system. Protect children and other vulnerable persons. You are right, I got that wrong. That's for after something happens. It is something we can do first, but definitely not the first line of defense. I disagree with never having workers staying in my home, but I respect how you feel. If that's your train of thought…I'd also suggest that you do not allow family in your home, as 40% of CSA victims are from family members. and also no friends over or no kids leaving your site as over 90% of victims are from perps they and/or the family trust. I guess it all comes down to a)how much risk is there and b)how much risk are we willing to tolerate, and thats for each of us make for themselves. 1 in 4 girls are victims of CSA, so this is not just a truth issue, but a society issue as well. something to keep in mind. You cannot prescribe for every situation. What I have suggested would be the first consideration in advice given by law enforcement departments. Workers staying in homes of unrelated children or other vulnerable people is an obvious, unnecessary risk which can easily be controlled. Having relatives staying in your home, particularly Fathers, Mothers, Brothers, Sisters, etc., would fall into the category of a necessary risk due to being part of the family. Other measures need to be followed. I appreciate CSA applies across society as a whole, but this should not be used on this board where the main topic of the issue is the CSA etc amongst workers. A few. simple, strict controls will go a long way towards reducing opportunities and temptation for a vulnerable ministry.
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Post by getreal on May 19, 2023 14:06:13 GMT -5
You are brave! Just one thought. If you look at statistics regarding sexual abuse yes, mostly family. But that is not relevant to a specific group where other factors may be at play. For example most cases of sexual abuse out in the world broadly aren’t committed by ministers staying with people because that is a very unusual system. The likelihood of the abuse being perpetrated by a minister is therefore very low compared to a family member. But in this group that is much more likely to happen if you follow me. I do not know the stats for how much abuse happens by other friends or family members, but it appears that most peeps so far reported are ministers in your church. Ergo, your children are much more likely to be abused by a minister you trust vs a family member. Does this logic make sense?
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Post by getreal on May 19, 2023 14:07:23 GMT -5
I meant perps not peeps!
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 14:55:18 GMT -5
You are right, I got that wrong. That's for after something happens. It is something we can do first, but definitely not the first line of defense. I disagree with never having workers staying in my home, but I respect how you feel. If that's your train of thought…I'd also suggest that you do not allow family in your home, as 40% of CSA victims are from family members. and also no friends over or no kids leaving your site as over 90% of victims are from perps they and/or the family trust. I guess it all comes down to a)how much risk is there and b)how much risk are we willing to tolerate, and thats for each of us make for themselves. 1 in 4 girls are victims of CSA, so this is not just a truth issue, but a society issue as well. something to keep in mind. You cannot prescribe for every situation. What I have suggested would be the first consideration in advice given by law enforcement departments. Workers staying in homes of unrelated children or other vulnerable people is an obvious, unnecessary risk which can easily be controlled. Having relatives staying in your home, particularly Fathers, Mothers, Brothers, Sisters, etc., would fall into the category of a necessary risk due to being part of the family. Other measures need to be followed. I appreciate CSA applies across society as a whole, but this should not be used on this board where the main topic of the issue is the CSA etc amongst workers. A few. simple, strict controls will go a long way towards reducing opportunities and temptation for a vulnerable ministry. You are more educated than i on this. so, thank you for your input, as i am clearly not a professional, nor talked to LE Dpts. I believe using real world data is always good for perspective, but i am no way trying to justify the wrongs in the Truth/workers by using it, but just to paint the whole picture. But, ill agree to disagree on that. what would you propose as your few, strict controls?
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 14:59:18 GMT -5
You are brave! Just one thought. If you look at statistics regarding sexual abuse yes, mostly family. But that is not relevant to a specific group where other factors may be at play. For example most cases of sexual abuse out in the world broadly aren’t committed by ministers staying with people because that is a very unusual system. The likelihood of the abuse being perpetrated by a minister is therefore very low compared to a family member. But in this group that is much more likely to happen if you follow me. I do not know the stats for how much abuse happens by other friends or family members, but it appears that most peeps so far reported are ministers in your church. Ergo, your children are much more likely to be abused by a minister you trust vs a family member. Does this logic make sense? You are right, stats don't always tell the whole story and there's so many variables. Yes, your logic makes a lot of sense.
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Post by getreal on May 19, 2023 15:02:39 GMT -5
Your perspective would be better served by understanding the risk factors within your group. The world perspective doesn’t help you assess your risk. So given this perhaps new to you way of looking at your children’s safety, I am curious if it changes your behavior in any way going forward.
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Post by mountain on May 19, 2023 15:06:40 GMT -5
You cannot prescribe for every situation. What I have suggested would be the first consideration in advice given by law enforcement departments. Workers staying in homes of unrelated children or other vulnerable people is an obvious, unnecessary risk which can easily be controlled. Having relatives staying in your home, particularly Fathers, Mothers, Brothers, Sisters, etc., would fall into the category of a necessary risk due to being part of the family. Other measures need to be followed. I appreciate CSA applies across society as a whole, but this should not be used on this board where the main topic of the issue is the CSA etc amongst workers. A few. simple, strict controls will go a long way towards reducing opportunities and temptation for a vulnerable ministry. You are more educated than i on this. so, thank you for your input, as i am clearly not a professional, nor talked to LE Dpts. I believe using real world data is always good for perspective, but i am no way trying to justify the wrongs in the Truth/workers by using it, but just to paint the whole picture. But, ill agree to disagree on that. what would you propose as your few, strict controls? Give me the scenarios you have in mind and I will see what I can come up with? Basically, common sense and logic apply. The safety of vulnerable people should always come before personal wishes. We all have to make sacrifices in order to protect society as best as we can. Why do you fit a burglar alarm to your house? Why do you lock your door? Why do some people get a guard dog? The list goes on. These things act as a deterrent, reduce opportunity and temptation and thus offer protection. Why does Wally go to meeting with a loaded firearm? Again personal protection.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on May 19, 2023 15:10:08 GMT -5
You are brave! Just one thought. If you look at statistics regarding sexual abuse yes, mostly family. But that is not relevant to a specific group where other factors may be at play. For example most cases of sexual abuse out in the world broadly aren’t committed by ministers staying with people because that is a very unusual system. The likelihood of the abuse being perpetrated by a minister is therefore very low compared to a family member. But in this group that is much more likely to happen if you follow me. I do not know the stats for how much abuse happens by other friends or family members, but it appears that most peeps so far reported are ministers in your church. Ergo, your children are much more likely to be abused by a minister you trust vs a family member. Does this logic make sense? A lot of the grooming type behaviors can occur when workers stay with the friends; and closer access to possible victims. I wish all Dads were like my dad... But overall, there is a problem with clergy of all denominations and abuse. Here is an interesting site: www.notinourchurch.com/statistics.html
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 16:00:00 GMT -5
Do you except some worker's excuses for not handling CSA,SA when they say thing's as they didn't realize the effects of these crimes on the victims or it's been a learning curve for them regarding how to appropriately handle these crimes? I do, and here's why: I personally have had NO personal encounters or know someone who has with CSA in my life. i have been blow away the last few months on how it can destroy or hinder, at the least, a life. everyone knows it's wrong, but this is not taught in school. its not taught in society. i cant think of anything more awkward to discuss, and i think the average joe anywhere is very naive to its TRUE effects on a person, unless its hit close to home. and, also, that each perp has more than 1 victim. like, some have hundreds. this blew my mind. so, do i believe them, sure. do i think its an excuse for them in a leadership position? that can be debated. but they know now. we are all hyper aware, which is mostly good! as far as a learning curve, this thing has come at 100 mph and is unprecedented. i've been impressed, personally, with the transparency and communication. its very tough when our fellowship believes strongly in forgiveness and mercy towards one another, and finding the balance with when it runs out. some cases (DB) are extremely easy to handle. some…a little bit more complex. im sure they will mess a few things up, as would any of us in crisis mode, but hopefully they can make proper corrections. Do you believe that believers can never take each other to court? I rarely like to use the term never and always. i personally havn't had anyone i know take each other so it's not been something i've thought of. because of that, i better not really speak on that. what are your thoughts? Do you think we truely get to know each other as worker's and friends even though we are allways or mostly in a guest/ host relationship? i dont believe any human truly knows another human. noone truly knows me…my thoughts, my struggles, my past, my trauma. with workers/friends, you have different relationships with some and not others, just like anyone else. some you connect with, some you're not as open with. this is extremely unpopular to say right now, but having workers in our home is a privilege to me and i value them a lot! Do you believe the fellowship trickles down directly from the apostle day's, not spiritually but literally? i assume you're asking me about the "origins of truth" traced back to william irvine vs this has trickled down from generation to generation from Jesus to now? bare with me on my answer…i'll put it this way…a lot of people on the outside (and inside) the fellowship, and a lot of exes that i have talked to personally look at this whole this from the wrong end of the telescope. completely wrong! they see the truth as a religion, as a set of rules, as skirts and long hair and workers and hierarchy and overseers and money and meetings and structure. and I am apart of the truth, so therefore i have to dress a certain way and obey the workers and and go to meetings. and you go to meetings, so you need something to say, so thats why you read and study to take part. looking at it from the outside to the inside. COMPLETELY opposite of how it should be and is for a lot of us in meeting. missing the whole point of it. it begins in the heart. it begins with my relationship with God. It begins with a work and something that God is putting inside me that i cant find anywhere or in anything in this world. something special that he has put in there, that you cannot use words to explain. and you pray and read and He gives and feeds and helps, and you fall and theres mercy. and you love God, and crave to be with others that has His same spirit in them. and thats true fellowship. and thats why you go to meetings, because God is there and it feeds something already there that you've been feeding outside of meetings. and you study the bible and the Holy Spirit teaches the same thing, its a universal language, and it teaches to be like Jesus, try to forgive that person, stay clean of this and that, live for others, be modest in our dress, learn to repent, etc. how else can you (and i have) go clear around the world and walk into a strangers home on sunday morning meeting and have sweet fellowship, feel God's presence there and feel like youve known them your whole life? how can a worker with no schooling or rules come from a different country, different culture and feed 1,000 souls at convention every single time? its the same teacher…God's spirit teaching the same thing. so, when my faith is in THAT, and not just being superficially affiliated with a group, who really cares if it was started in 1903 or in 303 a.d.? how does that lessen what God has does in my life? how does that effect Jesus' blood that can cleanse me? does that change my salvation? how does that effect God working in my life, and how i feel sitting in a meeting? it was a zero factor for me when i found out. i assumed it trickled down through the years, and i was wrong…so what? ill be wrong again. its like the workers…i would have never thought this bomb was coming and all of these people, some i know….but my faith isnt in them. and if our faith is in the truth or in the workers or friends or meetings…it will get shaken, and hurt and disappointment will come. guaranteed. because humans are really really disappointing. Glad especially lately that God cannot and has not disappointed…and He cannot sin.
oofta…i poured my little heart out on that one. lol
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Post by getreal on May 19, 2023 16:03:53 GMT -5
Wow. That link is worth a look.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 16:12:25 GMT -5
Your perspective would be better served by understanding the risk factors within your group. The world perspective doesn’t help you assess your risk. So given this perhaps new to you way of looking at your children’s safety, I am curious if it changes your behavior in any way going forward. i think i'm going to take the ministry safe training, just to have a few tools in my bag and what to look out for and learn more. i hear its a really really well setup training tool. awareness, thinking it CAN happen to those i love by people i love. more empathetic towards victims..etc. some things wont change. the workers will always have an open door to my home, and i still stand beside them and support them 100% as a whole.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 16:16:44 GMT -5
You are more educated than i on this. so, thank you for your input, as i am clearly not a professional, nor talked to LE Dpts. I believe using real world data is always good for perspective, but i am no way trying to justify the wrongs in the Truth/workers by using it, but just to paint the whole picture. But, ill agree to disagree on that. what would you propose as your few, strict controls? Give me the scenarios you have in mind and I will see what I can come up with? Basically, common sense and logic apply. The safety of vulnerable people should always come before personal wishes. We all have to make sacrifices in order to protect society as best as we can. Why do you fit a burglar alarm to your house? Why do you lock your door? Why do some people get a guard dog? The list goes on. These things act as a deterrent, reduce opportunity and temptation and thus offer protection. Why does Wally go to meeting with a loaded firearm? Again personal protection. extremely vague, ill ask again. what do you propose as your "few strict controls". im looking for your examples for change.
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Post by Umfolozi on May 19, 2023 16:19:40 GMT -5
Thanks for your answers Wally & allwaysbekind, there is alot that I agree with and some that I don't.If you whish to know more about how I see things I can send you a link but no pressure if you don't.
I will try to scale down on the difficulty grade of my questions allwaysbekind😉. I do enjoy your mature dialogue in general🌷
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