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Post by mountain on May 19, 2023 16:20:58 GMT -5
Give me the scenarios you have in mind and I will see what I can come up with? Basically, common sense and logic apply. The safety of vulnerable people should always come before personal wishes. We all have to make sacrifices in order to protect society as best as we can. Why do you fit a burglar alarm to your house? Why do you lock your door? Why do some people get a guard dog? The list goes on. These things act as a deterrent, reduce opportunity and temptation and thus offer protection. Why does Wally go to meeting with a loaded firearm? Again personal protection. extremely vague, ill ask again. what do you propose as your "few strict controls". im looking for your examples for change. I am not going to give a string of speculative situations. Come at me with an example and we'll address it.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 16:24:51 GMT -5
Thanks for your answers Wally & allwaysbekind, there is alot that I agree with and some that I don't.If you whish to know more about how I see things I can send you a link but no pressure if you don't. I will try to scale down on the difficulty grade of my questions allwaysbekind😉. I do enjoy your mature dialogue in general🌷 send a link my way…im on here to learn other peoples personal stories and get their perspective! my brain kinda hurts but you are welcome haha!
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Post by Umfolozi on May 19, 2023 16:41:20 GMT -5
ex2x2.info/2022/05/19/is-it-true-lets-see/It's very long so I suggest you take a break and read it later when you feel more refreshed. I myself enjoy hearing other people's perspectives.I still enjoy the social aspect of the meetings, my spouse still attends and in general I have had pleasant times with worker's and friend's. Unfortunately I grew up in a very dysfunctional family, alot of emotional abuse aswell as in a lighter degree physical( maybe that's just how the older people thought they had to discipline their kids😞) anycase I am pretty much healed from all of that by God's grace.
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Post by flower on May 19, 2023 17:01:03 GMT -5
Do you believe the fellowship trickles down directly from the apostle day's, not spiritually but literally? i assume you're asking me about the "origins of truth" traced back to william irvine vs this has trickled down from generation to generation from Jesus to now? bare with me on my answer…i'll put it this way…a lot of people on the outside (and inside) the fellowship, and a lot of exes that i have talked to personally look at this whole this from the wrong end of the telescope. completely wrong! they see the truth as a religion, as a set of rules, as skirts and long hair and workers and hierarchy and overseers and money and meetings and structure. and I am apart of the truth, so therefore i have to dress a certain way and obey the workers and and go to meetings. and you go to meetings, so you need something to say, so thats why you read and study to take part. looking at it from the outside to the inside. COMPLETELY opposite of how it should be and is for a lot of us in meeting. missing the whole point of it. it begins in the heart. it begins with my relationship with God. It begins with a work and something that God is putting inside me that i cant find anywhere or in anything in this world. something special that he has put in there, that you cannot use words to explain. and you pray and read and He gives and feeds and helps, and you fall and theres mercy. and you love God, and crave to be with others that has His same spirit in them. and thats true fellowship. and thats why you go to meetings, because God is there and it feeds something already there that you've been feeding outside of meetings. and you study the bible and the Holy Spirit teaches the same thing, its a universal language, and it teaches to be like Jesus, try to forgive that person, stay clean of this and that, live for others, be modest in our dress, learn to repent, etc. how else can you (and i have) go clear around the world and walk into a strangers home on sunday morning meeting and have sweet fellowship, feel God's presence there and feel like youve known them your whole life? how can a worker with no schooling or rules come from a different country, different culture and feed 1,000 souls at convention every single time? its the same teacher…God's spirit teaching the same thing. so, when my faith is in THAT, and not just being superficially affiliated with a group, who really cares if it was started in 1903 or in 303 a.d.? how does that lessen what God has does in my life? how does that effect Jesus' blood that can cleanse me? does that change my salvation? how does that effect God working in my life, and how i feel sitting in a meeting? it was a zero factor for me when i found out. i assumed it trickled down through the years, and i was wrong…so what? ill be wrong again. its like the workers…i would have never thought this bomb was coming and all of these people, some i know….but my faith isnt in them. and if our faith is in the truth or in the workers or friends or meetings…it will get shaken, and hurt and disappointment will come. guaranteed. because humans are really really disappointing. Glad especially lately that God cannot and has not disappointed…and He cannot sin.
oofta…i poured my little heart out on that one. lol
Thank you alwaysbekind (and Wally) for all the answers you’ve given, I 100% agree with them and have thought of doing something similar but haven’t been brave enough!! I especially like the way you’ve answered the question about the origins (above). This is exactly how I feel and I know a lot of the friends do too. You can’t put into words the feeling of knowing the spirit is there and guiding. E.g When you get to Sunday meeting and others have been looking at the exact same verse as you or there is a theme to the meeting, it just confirms again that the spirit is guiding and we are in unison. With all that’s happened in these last few months, it doesn’t shake my faith because that is in God. It has shaken my trust in the workers (some - there are still a lot of genuine good ones), and it’s obvious that ‘man’ and ‘human nature’ has been controlling their actions instead of God.
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Post by matisse on May 19, 2023 17:07:13 GMT -5
I hope you don’t get attacked too badly. Be aware there are some posters here that are SUPER sensitive to any kind of disagreement or criticism or correction. They will be nice to you as long as you agree with them. If you disagree, watch out. And then they will gang up on you. From time to time, a new poster will appear on this board who can dish it out, but cannot take it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2023 17:20:53 GMT -5
Thank you alwaysbekind (and Wally) for all the answers you’ve given, I 100% agree with them and have thought of doing something similar but haven’t been brave enough!! I especially like the way you’ve answered the question about the origins (above). This is exactly how I feel and I know a lot of the friends do too. You can’t put into words the feeling of knowing the spirit is there and guiding. E.g When you get to Sunday meeting and others have been looking at the exact same verse as you or there is a theme to the meeting, it just confirms again that the spirit is guiding and we are in unison. With all that’s happened in these last few months, it doesn’t shake my faith because that is in God. It has shaken my trust in the workers (some - there are still a lot of genuine good ones), and it’s obvious that ‘man’ and ‘human nature’ has been controlling their actions instead of God. Yes, there are themes at times, one of the last ones for me in a Sunday morning was PAY ATTENTION.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 19, 2023 17:43:30 GMT -5
I hope you don’t get attacked too badly. Be aware there are some posters here that are SUPER sensitive to any kind of disagreement or criticism or correction. They will be nice to you as long as you agree with them. If you disagree, watch out. And then they will gang up on you. From time to time, a new poster will appear on this board who can dish it out, but cannot take it. Try not to let that bother you.
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Post by intelchips on May 19, 2023 17:52:16 GMT -5
I may regret this, but let’s give it a go… In reading a lot of threads on here, it seems like there are some on here with genuine interests, questions about friends or meetings, the truth, or workers, etc. This isn’t about me, but I’m very happy going to meetings and secure in that and who I am. Please keep things respectful, even if you disagree. It’s okay if humans disagree. Let’s have good, profitable dialogue. I think there could be a better bridge between those inside and outside of the truth or those questioning or struggling, and I hope maybe I can help a small amount with that. I’m happy to talk about almost anything: doctrine, thoughts/feelings towards things, CSA (although this is triggering for people and a lot of the discussions I see arnt very profitable and heated), why I go, etc. Troublemakers: please do not comment. I’d like only profitable, good discussion/debates from those with good motives. Let’s be adults, please. **IMPORTANT- one person, myself included, cannot represent any organization as a whole. I can only discuss my lifetime experience in it and my point of view. I do feel I have a pretty good pulse on a lot of the friends and workers, and many are my dear friends, and I think I can speak for most. I’ll start by setting a situation I found myself with a friend not too long ago. I had asks some of the friends if they would visit my mom (she passed away this past December) so while they were here and I was cooking on the grill one of them asked why I always waited in the car while my mom was inside in the Sunday morning meeting. I answered that long ago I knew that what they (the friends held scared) was plain old silliness but I had no problem driving my mom to the meeting. Then, I’m not sure exactly how it came up but the subject came around to William Irvine, to which the friend said yes I know all about him and what’s being said about him is not true and he had heard it from a worker. Being a lifelong student of history, one always tried to check sources and make sure they got the facts correct. So, when I asked what truths and which worker his response was he didn’t wish to argue and would speak no more on the subject. I don’t think I had given any indication of getting ready to argue so I let it go. But my experience when it comes to friends is always the same.
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Post by getreal on May 19, 2023 19:42:14 GMT -5
Just be kind, good goal, what do mean by talking about what you have in your personal relationship with god and then superficially associated with a group being sort of separate things. So you see yourself as superficially associated? Just a curious turn of phrase I am, curious about. You sound like so many friends I have known. You have had an untroubled existence and have been by your admission rather oblivious to the realities of others until recently. I don’t sense a lot of deep sorrow about that, but more that you don’t want to be troubled by those you refer to as trouble makers. Who are you calling troublemakers? What trouble are you referring to? So you really aren’t here to have anything in your picture of life challenged. But I am glad you are going to take the course that could help you protect your children. So you are here because you want to clear up our misconceptions? Because the way you know has been perfect. Hmmmm. Many of us spent a lot of years inside and in the work. i think you just want to have the light turned off so you can enjoy your bubble without being troubled by reality. People who speak up are called names like trouble makers. You label someone a trouble maker and you can justify your anger towards what they are saying? Blame the person who says the things that make you uncomfortable? What about making food trouble. Good trouble that helps those who are suffering in this perfect way.
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Post by getreal on May 19, 2023 20:16:08 GMT -5
Not food trouble 🙄, good trouble 😀
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peggysullivan
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Post by peggysullivan on May 19, 2023 20:26:27 GMT -5
Not food trouble 🙄, good trouble 😀 I've been accused of being a trouble maker before. The last time, though, it was said good naturedly. When it comes to advocating for people who cannot advocate for themselves and are truly vulnerable, I can be not only a trouble maker but a big pain in the a$$. I get fired up. I get angry. It just makes me mad to think of weak vulnerable people being abused. Children, elderly, the sick and dying. Yes, I have even seen family members abuse their loved ones on their death bed. Truly sick. I will give alwaysbekind the benefit of the doubt here. I think she has good intentions.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 23:06:23 GMT -5
Not food trouble 🙄, good trouble 😀 I've been accused of being a trouble maker before. The last time, though, it was said good naturedly. When it comes to advocating for people who cannot advocate for themselves and are truly vulnerable, I can be not only a trouble maker but a big pain in the a$$. I get fired up. I get angry. It just makes me mad to think of weak vulnerable people being abused. Children, elderly, the sick and dying. Yes, I have even seen family members abuse their loved ones on their death bed. Truly sick. I will give alwaysbekind the benefit of the doubt here. I think she has good intentions. Thank you, but what makes you assume I’m a woman?
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 19, 2023 23:07:20 GMT -5
I've been accused of being a trouble maker before. The last time, though, it was said good naturedly. When it comes to advocating for people who cannot advocate for themselves and are truly vulnerable, I can be not only a trouble maker but a big pain in the a$$. I get fired up. I get angry. It just makes me mad to think of weak vulnerable people being abused. Children, elderly, the sick and dying. Yes, I have even seen family members abuse their loved ones on their death bed. Truly sick. I will give alwaysbekind the benefit of the doubt here. I think she has good intentions. Thank you, but what makes you assume I’m a woman? Good question. I have no clue…. Lol
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 23:16:25 GMT -5
Thank you alwaysbekind (and Wally) for all the answers you’ve given, I 100% agree with them and have thought of doing something similar but haven’t been brave enough!! I especially like the way you’ve answered the question about the origins (above). This is exactly how I feel and I know a lot of the friends do too. You can’t put into words the feeling of knowing the spirit is there and guiding. E.g When you get to Sunday meeting and others have been looking at the exact same verse as you or there is a theme to the meeting, it just confirms again that the spirit is guiding and we are in unison. With all that’s happened in these last few months, it doesn’t shake my faith because that is in God. It has shaken my trust in the workers (some - there are still a lot of genuine good ones), and it’s obvious that ‘man’ and ‘human nature’ has been controlling their actions instead of God. I Agree 100%. Hope you can find the courage to post more, if you feel moved. Worst case scenario: Mean spirited people behind a keyboard attack you personally even thought they don’t know anything about you. To me, if I keep the spirit of Christ, and they’re that miserable with themselves that they lash out towards me, and are mean, that’s a them problem, not me. And I feel sorry for someone like That, that they have to live with themselves with all that anger and bitterness in their heart. Also, just don’t reply to them…don’t even address them. Just my mindset, I guess.
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 23:23:15 GMT -5
I may regret this, but let’s give it a go… In reading a lot of threads on here, it seems like there are some on here with genuine interests, questions about friends or meetings, the truth, or workers, etc. This isn’t about me, but I’m very happy going to meetings and secure in that and who I am. Please keep things respectful, even if you disagree. It’s okay if humans disagree. Let’s have good, profitable dialogue. I think there could be a better bridge between those inside and outside of the truth or those questioning or struggling, and I hope maybe I can help a small amount with that. I’m happy to talk about almost anything: doctrine, thoughts/feelings towards things, CSA (although this is triggering for people and a lot of the discussions I see arnt very profitable and heated), why I go, etc. Troublemakers: please do not comment. I’d like only profitable, good discussion/debates from those with good motives. Let’s be adults, please. **IMPORTANT- one person, myself included, cannot represent any organization as a whole. I can only discuss my lifetime experience in it and my point of view. I do feel I have a pretty good pulse on a lot of the friends and workers, and many are my dear friends, and I think I can speak for most. I’ll start by setting a situation I found myself with a friend not too long ago. I had asks some of the friends if they would visit my mom (she passed away this past December) so while they were here and I was cooking on the grill one of them asked why I always waited in the car while my mom was inside in the Sunday morning meeting. I answered that long ago I knew that what they (the friends held scared) was plain old silliness but I had no problem driving my mom to the meeting. Then, I’m not sure exactly how it came up but the subject came around to William Irvine, to which the friend said yes I know all about him and what’s being said about him is not true and he had heard it from a worker. Being a lifelong student of history, one always tried to check sources and make sure they got the facts correct. So, when I asked what truths and which worker his response was he didn’t wish to argue and would speak no more on the subject. I don’t think I had given any indication of getting ready to argue so I let it go. But my experience when it comes to friends is always the same. So sorry to hear about you losing your mother recently, I bet Mother’s Day was hard for you. As I age, I appreciate more that there’s nothing that compares to a mothers love in this world. Ah, yes, the ole Origins of truth topic. I’m a little confused on what you wanted me to talk about or answer?
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 19, 2023 23:36:50 GMT -5
Just be kind, good goal, what do mean by talking about what you have in your personal relationship with god and then superficially associated with a group being sort of separate things. So you see yourself as superficially associated? Just a curious turn of phrase I am, curious about. You sound like so many friends I have known. You have had an untroubled existence and have been by your admission rather oblivious to the realities of others until recently. I don’t sense a lot of deep sorrow about that, but more that you don’t want to be troubled by those you refer to as trouble makers. Who are you calling troublemakers? What trouble are you referring to? So you really aren’t here to have anything in your picture of life challenged. But I am glad you are going to take the course that could help you protect your children. So you are here because you want to clear up our misconceptions? Because the way you know has been perfect. Hmmmm. Many of us spent a lot of years inside and in the work. i think you just want to have the light turned off so you can enjoy your bubble without being troubled by reality. People who speak up are called names like trouble makers. You label someone a trouble maker and you can justify your anger towards what they are saying? Blame the person who says the things that make you uncomfortable? What about making food trouble. Good trouble that helps those who are suffering in this perfect way. I found 7 assumptions in this that you’ve made about me that are wrong. I don’t think I’ll address them, as I don’t see the point. you seem to already have me all figured out. I’m a little disappointed in you, getreal, I assumed more from you from who I had you pictured as from all of your other posts on this forum. I guess we are both wrong.
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Post by getreal on May 20, 2023 2:14:58 GMT -5
It was so easy to remove your friendly, kind and gracious professing persona. I asked reasonable questions. Why did you use the loaded for some of us term, trouble maker. I was so beaten down in the work, almost destroyed. You remind me of the faces that quickly turned from love to suspicion and scorn. The people who had one face and then would turn on you with a very different face if they felt you crossed some line you didn’t even know was there. The love is conditional. You challenge someone with reasonable questions and suddenly you are the enemy. When you are from the outside it’s easy to be tossed aside. You really never are a part. You don’t know who you are talking to here. You do not know how damaged. You don’t know and you need to tread more carefully. You know what the friends who think all is well and there are just a few bad apples and once all that is dealt with all will return to normal as I hear some of you say, just be less sure of that. And what is normal? Do more listening. There is much, much more to play out.
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Post by getreal on May 20, 2023 3:20:27 GMT -5
And I don’t have you figured out at all but you do remind me of the friends I found most intimidating. The ones who seemed to live a charmed life. Happy, sure of what they have and the system and their place in it. Tell me if I am wrong. I bet the workers love to be in your home. You are loved and respected. You have little reason to question anything much. I never felt like I measured up. I came from the outside and questionable background because of the worker who brought me in. I didn’t know all that at the time. That worker was manipulative ( a psychopath I now see) and I was vulnerable and I was lured into the work and well, it was like a horror story compared to what your lived experience is, more like Mayberry. Our experience’s clash. How do you reconcile them. An angry part of my heart resents yours and and maybe you see me as an anomaly and maybe U brought it on myself. Surely yours must be the one most have in your mind, and in mine I see sadness everywhere. So many workers are suffering. They are not as happy as you want to believe. I am sorry. This must be very hard for you to take in and I don’t expect you to believe me but time will tell. Someone like you will probably survive whatever turmoil is still to come. You seem very sincere in your faith, in what you have in your heart.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 20, 2023 5:49:36 GMT -5
Your perspective would be better served by understanding the risk factors within your group. The world perspective doesn’t help you assess your risk. So given this perhaps new to you way of looking at your children’s safety, I am curious if it changes your behavior in any way going forward. i think i'm going to take the ministry safe training, just to have a few tools in my bag and what to look out for and learn more. i hear its a really really well setup training tool. awareness, thinking it CAN happen to those i love by people i love. more empathetic towards victims..etc. some things wont change. the workers will always have an open door to my home, and i still stand beside them and support them 100% as a whole. alwaysbekind, would you still have the same opinions if a Worker sexual abused one of your children? I assume you are in the US ?
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Post by alwaysbekind on May 20, 2023 6:35:08 GMT -5
i think i'm going to take the ministry safe training, just to have a few tools in my bag and what to look out for and learn more. i hear its a really really well setup training tool. awareness, thinking it CAN happen to those i love by people i love. more empathetic towards victims..etc. some things wont change. the workers will always have an open door to my home, and i still stand beside them and support them 100% as a whole. alwaysbekind , would you still have the same opinions if a Worker sexual abused one of your children? I assume you are in the US ? Great question. I understand that I don't know for sure, because its a hypothetical question. I do believe i still would have an open door to the workers. THAT particular worker would not be welcomed of course. That person would be sitting in jail. I don't dare lump together a whole group of people for a fews actions! thats not justice, thats not right. if your father was a child molester…i am very very sure you would not want to be thought of one too, and you would want to be judged on your own actions by people. same as me, and same of the other workers right now. can you imagine what the ones, who would never think of hurting a child, are dealing with right now? i know, because i have a few i communicate with frequently and its a witch hunt. the collateral damage causing trauma to the innocent is real. so yes, i believe i would compartmentalize the bad worker and fully stand beside the others, even if my own child was victimized.i would hope, as the years go by, i could forgive that worker, maybe even go see them in prison and have God work that mercy into my heart. To me, thats what i Believe Jesus would do. correct, i am in the USA
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Post by intelchips on May 20, 2023 7:36:28 GMT -5
I’ll start by setting a situation I found myself with a friend not too long ago. I had asks some of the friends if they would visit my mom (she passed away this past December) so while they were here and I was cooking on the grill one of them asked why I always waited in the car while my mom was inside in the Sunday morning meeting. I answered that long ago I knew that what they (the friends held scared) was plain old silliness but I had no problem driving my mom to the meeting. Then, I’m not sure exactly how it came up but the subject came around to William Irvine, to which the friend said yes I know all about him and what’s being said about him is not true and he had heard it from a worker. Being a lifelong student of history, one always tried to check sources and make sure they got the facts correct. So, when I asked what truths and which worker his response was he didn’t wish to argue and would speak no more on the subject. I don’t think I had given any indication of getting ready to argue so I let it go. But my experience when it comes to friends is always the same. So sorry to hear about you losing your mother recently, I bet Mother’s Day was hard for you. As I age, I appreciate more that there’s nothing that compares to a mothers love in this world. Ah, yes, the ole Origins of truth topic. I’m a little confused on what you wanted me to talk about or answer? I thought my point was pretty clear. Friends are never willing to face the truth. Or when they hear it for the first time their minds close because it couldn’t possibly be true. Christianity in general has been misled by pickers and choosers among many opposing ideas of mythology as if it had any importance in our modern lives. Any then I might be asked what religion should be replaced with? Will you have me there? Perhaps some humanist might answer that question. But I can't help but think if we just went fishing on a Sunday morning or played soccer on a Sunday afternoon the world would be a better place. I grew up in a world of hero workers who (such as) while in a Japanese prisoner camp traded their watch for a handful of rice to keep a fellow worker alive. Or the one who left his brother worker to visit someone and on return the brother had taken the tent and began preaching a different gospel. Some were married, they preached different creeds then they do today. (Never changing always, the same) if you don ‘t get my point by now I’m not capable of expressing it
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 8:35:24 GMT -5
And I don’t have you figured out at all but you do remind me of the friends I found most intimidating. The ones who seemed to live a charmed life. Happy, sure of what they have and the system and their place in it. Tell me if I am wrong. I bet the workers love to be in your home. You are loved and respected. You have little reason to question anything much. I never felt like I measured up. I came from the outside and questionable background because of the worker who brought me in. I didn’t know all that at the time. That worker was manipulative ( a psychopath I now see) and I was vulnerable and I was lured into the work and well, it was like a horror story compared to what your lived experience is, more like Mayberry. Our experience’s clash. How do you reconcile them. An angry part of my heart resents yours and and maybe you see me as an anomaly and maybe U brought it on myself. Surely yours must be the one most have in your mind, and in mine I see sadness everywhere. So many workers are suffering. They are not as happy as you want to believe. I am sorry. This must be very hard for you to take in and I don’t expect you to believe me but time will tell. Someone like you will probably survive whatever turmoil is still to come. You seem very sincere in your faith, in what you have in your heart. I think he is very sincere. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you blaming him for your terrible experience? I don’t doubt what you say at all, don’t get me wrong. I understand. I was from the outside too and never quite fit in. I believe what you said about workers suffering. Maybe they should drop the pretense?
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 8:37:32 GMT -5
It was so easy to remove your friendly, kind and gracious professing persona. I asked reasonable questions. Why did you use the loaded for some of us term, trouble maker. I was so beaten down in the work, almost destroyed. You remind me of the faces that quickly turned from love to suspicion and scorn. The people who had one face and then would turn on you with a very different face if they felt you crossed some line you didn’t even know was there. The love is conditional. You challenge someone with reasonable questions and suddenly you are the enemy. When you are from the outside it’s easy to be tossed aside. You really never are a part. You don’t know who you are talking to here. You do not know how damaged. You don’t know and you need to tread more carefully. You know what the friends who think all is well and there are just a few bad apples and once all that is dealt with all will return to normal as I hear some of you say, just be less sure of that. And what is normal? Do more listening. There is much, much more to play out. I am interested in how you were lured into the work.
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peggysullivan
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What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 10:25:54 GMT -5
alwaysbekind , would you still have the same opinions if a Worker sexual abused one of your children? I assume you are in the US ? i know, because i have a few i communicate with frequently and its a witch hunt. the collateral damage causing trauma to the innocent is real. so yes, i believe i would compartmentalize the bad worker and fully stand beside the others, even if my own child was victimized.i would hope, as the years go by, i could forgive that worker, maybe even go see them in prison and have God work that mercy into my heart. To me, thats what i Believe Jesus would do. correct, i am in the USA This is unfortunate and it's sad to hear about. I have said from the beginning I hope it doesn't turn into a witch hunt. *sigh* Humans have a tendency to take things too far. I can be just as guilty of that as anyone. I hate to think the reputation of innocent people is being smeared. That's not good.
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Post by getreal on May 20, 2023 12:42:51 GMT -5
You are the first friend who could remind of everything so I admit you represent all the people that hurt me. Not fair. It brought back an absolute flood of memories. I wish everything was just as you described. I was lead to believe all was a wonderful as you describe and I was deceived and worse controlled and manipulated by a sick person and it lead to be being trampled like what do they call it when innocents are sacrificed in warfare. An acceptable loss anyway. Because of what they hid from me. I have written to the overseer and reminded him of that. Many will report the incidences around that time. I am not central to the story. Just wounded. I am sorry you became my surrogate to take some blame of course you are not. If you just take away from this a realization that there is much more bad then you realize and listen and with hold judgement. Sorry to run on.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 13:12:16 GMT -5
You are the first friend who could remind of everything so I admit you represent all the people that hurt me. Not fair. It brought back an absolute flood of memories. I wish everything was just as you described. I was lead to believe all was a wonderful as you describe and I was deceived and worse controlled and manipulated by a sick person and it lead to be being trampled like what do they call it when innocents are sacrificed in warfare. An acceptable loss anyway. Because of what they hid from me. I have written to the overseer and reminded him of that. Many will report the incidences around that time. I am not central to the story. Just wounded. I am sorry you became my surrogate to take some blame of course you are not. If you just take away from this a realization that there is much more bad then you realize and listen and with hold judgement. Sorry to run on. The first word that comes to my mind is pretense. Then, veneer. I don’t do well with either of those. So I never quite fit in…. But I found there were several other friends and a few workers who had the same problem. The secrecy of the friends not really knowing what is really going on is a problem with the abuse issues. And this concept it’s not okay to be angry or upset… one must always have a right spirit…. Well Jesus wasn’t always’nice’… sometimes He got upset and He wept too. But we humans are have a tendency to avoid uncomfortable feelings.
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Post by getreal on May 20, 2023 13:32:34 GMT -5
And I don’t have you figured out at all but you do remind me of the friends I found most intimidating. The ones who seemed to live a charmed life. Happy, sure of what they have and the system and their place in it. Tell me if I am wrong. I bet the workers love to be in your home. You are loved and respected. You have little reason to question anything much. I never felt like I measured up. I came from the outside and questionable background because of the worker who brought me in. I didn’t know all that at the time. That worker was manipulative ( a psychopath I now see) and I was vulnerable and I was lured into the work and well, it was like a horror story compared to what your lived experience is, more like Mayberry. Our experience’s clash. How do you reconcile them. An angry part of my heart resents yours and and maybe you see me as an anomaly and maybe U brought it on myself. Surely yours must be the one most have in your mind, and in mine I see sadness everywhere. So many workers are suffering. They are not as happy as you want to believe. I am sorry. This must be very hard for you to take in and I don’t expect you to believe me but time will tell. Someone like you will probably survive whatever turmoil is still to come. You seem very sincere in your faith, in what you have in your heart. I think he is very sincere. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you blaming him for your terrible experience? I don’t doubt what you say at all, don’t get me wrong. I understand. I was from the outside too and never quite fit in. I believe what you said about workers suffering. Maybe they should drop the pretense? Its so weird because in a way why should I care about this group anymore. I guess it is because my experience in it is still unresolved. I want that overseer or I should say overseers to apologize. To admit to everyone their actions and how they were wrong in detail. They aren’t admitting the true and complete story as yet. Sure, they write sanctimonious letters and empty generalized in nature apologies. They are hoping to skate through this largely unscathed. For this group to really heal, and for those of us who are left with wounds that keep opening up to begin to truly heal, everything needs to be owned up to. Everything. From the beginning until now. We need a Nurembourg of sorts. Dale Schulz likes everything on the surface to look good. That is his goal. Jack price is famous for saying the b and r have something the come from outside people just don’t have. He was proud, dangerous, cruel. I find even those who professed and left for less dramatic reasons are terribly naive. It’s coming out though. They need to be exposed. They damaged many, many people.
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 651
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Post by peggysullivan on May 20, 2023 13:43:26 GMT -5
Its so weird because in a way why should I care about this group anymore. I guess it is because my experience in it is still unresolved. I want that overseer or I should say overseers to apologize. To admit to everyone their actions and how they were wrong in detail. They aren’t admitting the true and complete story as yet. Sure, they write sanctimonious letters and empty generalized in nature apologies. They are hoping to skate through this largely unscathed. For this group to really heal, and for those of us who are left with wounds that keep opening up to begin to truly heal, everything needs to be owned up to. Everything. From the beginning until now. We need a Nurembourg of sorts. Dale Schulz likes everything on the surface to look good. That is his goal. Jack price is famous for saying the b and r have something the come from outside people just don’t have. He was proud, dangerous, cruel. I find even those who professed and left for less dramatic reasons are terribly naive. It’s coming out though. They need to be exposed. They damaged many, many people. I don't recall Jack Price. Maybe I am fortunate? But what he said about B and R having something those from the outside don't have? That's false. When I professed, I actually heard somewhat of the opposite, believe it or not. I was told by a few of the friends that the B and R are sometimes "missing it" and take things for granted as opposed to those that weren't raised in it. But, I also detected an air of superiority from some of the long time generational friends who have a lot of family professing and are 'connected'. That is very unfortunate. I agree with you, there are things that are not resolved. I am not sure how one goes about resolving all those things, like you say if the ones who hurt you never fess up! I don't inow...I've gotten to place in my life where I really don't care what people think about me. It's between me and God. So, I have let a lot of things go....but it's been a hell of a journey.
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