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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2023 21:34:06 GMT -5
It's also referring to God's statement in Psalm 105: "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm." Well if that doesn't cover it nothing does. The workers are God's anointed so the friends should never complain about abuse based on what the bible says. Throw the book away. It's got so many contradictions and immoral advice. It's no wonder that my 12 year old self quit professing after reading the story about god ordering the killing of everything, women, children, animals. When I tried to reconcile that with what I thought God was I couldn't. I went to the workers hoping they could help me because I wanted to be a worker some day and I wanted to know how to explain it to people when I was a worker. Well it soon became evident that they couldn't explain it. I'm sure they thought they did and it was just me 'unwilling' to accept their trying to justify a horrific act by their god. I couldn't worship that god. I knew at 12 that meant I was going to hell, but I just couldn't. I lived in fear but was resigned for many years. Oh Snow, I'm so sorry to hear about that experience! I think you would have been a wonderful worker! Sorry that they couldn't give you an answer of comfort.
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Post by rebekah on Jun 3, 2023 21:45:10 GMT -5
I think it’s intentionally covered up based on personal experience when I reported an abuser to an overseer so we could change Wednesday night meetings from my wife’s abusers home. This was years after 4 mothers knew about what happened. The same abuser had an adult son who abused my wife and other girls when they were young. Nothing done. I told a female worker years later Nothing done I imagine I am not alone in witnessing this his behavior. I'm so sorry to hear of your wife's abuse and of your cries falling on deaf ears. We hope that today God is taking care of bother the abusers and the ones who didn't stop them. Indeed I can hardly fathom that. So sorry that you were not heard
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Post by Dan on Jun 3, 2023 22:40:12 GMT -5
Well if that doesn't cover it nothing does. The workers are God's anointed so the friends should never complain about abuse based on what the bible says. Throw the book away. It's got so many contradictions and immoral advice. It's no wonder that my 12 year old self quit professing after reading the story about god ordering the killing of everything, women, children, animals. When I tried to reconcile that with what I thought God was I couldn't. I went to the workers hoping they could help me because I wanted to be a worker some day and I wanted to know how to explain it to people when I was a worker. Well it soon became evident that they couldn't explain it. I'm sure they thought they did and it was just me 'unwilling' to accept their trying to justify a horrific act by their god. I couldn't worship that god. I knew at 12 that meant I was going to hell, but I just couldn't. I lived in fear but was resigned for many years. Oh Snow, I'm so sorry to hear about that experience! I think you would have been a wonderful worker! Sorry that they couldn't give you an answer of comfort.
Remember that King Saul was also one of God's anointed. When all God see's is wickedness as in Noah's day, He does tend to annihilate the problem. I believe Snow found the order for the total destruction of the Canaanite societies off-putting. But when there is no good, past, present, or future, there is also no purpose. Over hundreds of years those nations sacrificed more children to Baal (Molech) than God killed. Every living thing dies, but do to excessive evil deeds, sometimes God finds it necessary to expedite that process. The Canaanites had a choice to leave the promised land or perish, and their final decision was to defy God. It was that ongoing stubborn disobedience that brought about their ultimate demise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2023 22:42:16 GMT -5
Oh Snow, I'm so sorry to hear about that experience! I think you would have been a wonderful worker! Sorry that they couldn't give you an answer of comfort.
Remember that King Saul was also one of God's anointed. When all God see's is wickedness as in Noah's day, He does tend to annihilate the problem. I believe Snow found the order for the total destruction of the Canaanite societies off-putting. But when there is no good, past, present, or future, there is also no purpose. Over hundreds of years those nations sacrificed more children to Baal (Molech) than God killed. Every living thing dies, but do to excessive evil deeds, sometimes God finds it necessary to expedite that process. The Canaanites had a choice to leave the promised land or perish, and their final decision was to defy God. It was that ongoing stubborn disobedience that brought about their ultimate demise.
It's interesting to hear the screeching about why doesn't God do something NOW. But when reading the OT they say HOW DARE HE!!!
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Post by chuck on Jun 4, 2023 0:07:57 GMT -5
Oh Snow, I'm so sorry to hear about that experience! I think you would have been a wonderful worker! Sorry that they couldn't give you an answer of comfort.
Remember that King Saul was also one of God's anointed. When all God see's is wickedness as in Noah's day, He does tend to annihilate the problem. I believe Snow found the order for the total destruction of the Canaanite societies off-putting. But when there is no good, past, present, or future, there is also no purpose. Over hundreds of years those nations sacrificed more children to Baal (Molech) than God killed. Every living thing dies, but do to excessive evil deeds, sometimes God finds it necessary to expedite that process. The Canaanites had a choice to leave the promised land or perish, and their final decision was to defy God. It was that ongoing stubborn disobedience that brought about their ultimate demise.
Thats just a plain awful thought process. But it does it explain though how people can rationalise their God killing his son and celebrate it regularly.... The purpose of those passages are guiding wisdom, that wisdom being kill all of those characteristics out of your life. Read it like a Hebrew not a blood thirsty religious nutter who champions their god killing your enemies.......
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Post by Dan on Jun 4, 2023 11:17:25 GMT -5
Remember that King Saul was also one of God's anointed. When all God see's is wickedness as in Noah's day, He does tend to annihilate the problem. I believe Snow found the order for the total destruction of the Canaanite societies off-putting. But when there is no good, past, present, or future, there is also no purpose. Over hundreds of years those nations sacrificed more children to Baal (Molech) than God killed. Every living thing dies, but do to excessive evil deeds, sometimes God finds it necessary to expedite that process. The Canaanites had a choice to leave the promised land or perish, and their final decision was to defy God. It was that ongoing stubborn disobedience that brought about their ultimate demise.
Thats just a plain awful thought process. But it does it explain though how people can rationalise their God killing his son and celebrate it regularly.... The purpose of those passages are guiding wisdom, that wisdom being kill all of those characteristics out of your life. Read it like a Hebrew not a blood thirsty religious nutter who champions their god killing your enemies.......
Sure, the wisdom is to resist evil and expel negative characteristics out of your life. The reality is that when we don't, God will inevitably do it for us. Judgement comes, God's patience ultimately has an end.
"And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). That's God's thought process, not mine. No need to rationalize why God ends life, the bible provides a point blank explanation and its not some poetic metaphor.
Jesus willingly sacrificed his life for our sake, to pay the debt for sin. No need to rationalize that fundamental truth, his purpose was self-explanatory. Christians appreciate it because we are no longer dead to sin, but alive in Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2023 14:40:56 GMT -5
Thats just a plain awful thought process. But it does it explain though how people can rationalise their God killing his son and celebrate it regularly.... The purpose of those passages are guiding wisdom, that wisdom being kill all of those characteristics out of your life. Read it like a Hebrew not a blood thirsty religious nutter who champions their god killing your enemies.......
Sure, the wisdom is to resist evil and expel negative characteristics out of your life. The reality is that when we don't, God will inevitably do it for us. Judgement comes, God's patience ultimately has an end.
"And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). That's God's thought process, not mine. No need to rationalize why God ends life, the bible provides a point blank explanation and its not some poetic metaphor.
Jesus willingly sacrificed his life for our sake, to pay the debt for sin. No need to rationalize that fundamental truth, his purpose was self-explanatory. Christians appreciate it because we are no longer dead to sin, but alive in Christ.
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Post by snow on Jun 4, 2023 15:45:05 GMT -5
Well if that doesn't cover it nothing does. The workers are God's anointed so the friends should never complain about abuse based on what the bible says. Throw the book away. It's got so many contradictions and immoral advice. It's no wonder that my 12 year old self quit professing after reading the story about god ordering the killing of everything, women, children, animals. When I tried to reconcile that with what I thought God was I couldn't. I went to the workers hoping they could help me because I wanted to be a worker some day and I wanted to know how to explain it to people when I was a worker. Well it soon became evident that they couldn't explain it. I'm sure they thought they did and it was just me 'unwilling' to accept their trying to justify a horrific act by their god. I couldn't worship that god. I knew at 12 that meant I was going to hell, but I just couldn't. I lived in fear but was resigned for many years. Oh Snow, I'm so sorry to hear about that experience! I think you would have been a wonderful worker! Sorry that they couldn't give you an answer of comfort. It was many years ago and I have let it go for the most part. Thank you for caring.
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Post by snow on Jun 4, 2023 15:48:46 GMT -5
Oh Snow, I'm so sorry to hear about that experience! I think you would have been a wonderful worker! Sorry that they couldn't give you an answer of comfort. Remember that King Saul was also one of God's anointed. When all God see's is wickedness as in Noah's day, He does tend to annihilate the problem. I believe Snow found the order for the total destruction of the Canaanite societies off-putting. But when there is no good, past, present, or future, there is also no purpose. Over hundreds of years those nations sacrificed more children to Baal (Molech) than God killed. Every living thing dies, but do to excessive evil deeds, sometimes God finds it necessary to expedite that process. The Canaanites had a choice to leave the promised land or perish, and their final decision was to defy God. It was that ongoing stubborn disobedience that brought about their ultimate demise.
Do you actually think that God ordered that? Or would you accept that it was the Hebrews justifying their massacre by saying God told them to do it?
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Post by snow on Jun 4, 2023 15:50:11 GMT -5
Remember that King Saul was also one of God's anointed. When all God see's is wickedness as in Noah's day, He does tend to annihilate the problem. I believe Snow found the order for the total destruction of the Canaanite societies off-putting. But when there is no good, past, present, or future, there is also no purpose. Over hundreds of years those nations sacrificed more children to Baal (Molech) than God killed. Every living thing dies, but do to excessive evil deeds, sometimes God finds it necessary to expedite that process. The Canaanites had a choice to leave the promised land or perish, and their final decision was to defy God. It was that ongoing stubborn disobedience that brought about their ultimate demise.
It's interesting to hear the screeching about why doesn't God do something NOW. But when reading the OT they say HOW DARE HE!!! For me it's not that I want God to step in now. I don't believe god ever stepped in. Humanity has justified many horrific acts saying it was ordered by god.
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Post by chuck on Jun 4, 2023 17:42:02 GMT -5
Thats just a plain awful thought process. But it does it explain though how people can rationalise their God killing his son and celebrate it regularly.... The purpose of those passages are guiding wisdom, that wisdom being kill all of those characteristics out of your life. Read it like a Hebrew not a blood thirsty religious nutter who champions their god killing your enemies.......
Sure, the wisdom is to resist evil and expel negative characteristics out of your life. The reality is that when we don't, God will inevitably do it for us. Judgement comes, God's patience ultimately has an end.
"And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). That's God's thought process, not mine. No need to rationalize why God ends life, the bible provides a point blank explanation and its not some poetic metaphor.
Jesus willingly sacrificed his life for our sake, to pay the debt for sin. No need to rationalize that fundamental truth, his purpose was self-explanatory. Christians appreciate it because we are no longer dead to sin, but alive in Christ.
You can thank Anselm of Canterbury for your payment theory of atonement. The world wide flood never happened, the story is the vehicle to carry a message...but you literalise the form of the story....Hebrew people thought function therfore that's how they recorded and passed wisdom along, reading it thinking of the form of the translated words is missing the point entirely but is exactly what you are doing. Again it's a horrible thought process to be able to justify in ones own mind that it's ok that ones god kills anyone not like you.....
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Post by chuck on Jun 4, 2023 17:45:35 GMT -5
Remember that King Saul was also one of God's anointed. When all God see's is wickedness as in Noah's day, He does tend to annihilate the problem. I believe Snow found the order for the total destruction of the Canaanite societies off-putting. But when there is no good, past, present, or future, there is also no purpose. Over hundreds of years those nations sacrificed more children to Baal (Molech) than God killed. Every living thing dies, but do to excessive evil deeds, sometimes God finds it necessary to expedite that process. The Canaanites had a choice to leave the promised land or perish, and their final decision was to defy God. It was that ongoing stubborn disobedience that brought about their ultimate demise.
Do you actually think that God ordered that? Or would you accept that it was the Hebrews justifying their massacre by saying God told them to do it? There is as much evidence of massacres as there is of a world wide flood.
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Post by Dan on Jun 4, 2023 20:38:35 GMT -5
Remember that King Saul was also one of God's anointed. When all God see's is wickedness as in Noah's day, He does tend to annihilate the problem. I believe Snow found the order for the total destruction of the Canaanite societies off-putting. But when there is no good, past, present, or future, there is also no purpose. Over hundreds of years those nations sacrificed more children to Baal (Molech) than God killed. Every living thing dies, but do to excessive evil deeds, sometimes God finds it necessary to expedite that process. The Canaanites had a choice to leave the promised land or perish, and their final decision was to defy God. It was that ongoing stubborn disobedience that brought about their ultimate demise.
Do you actually think that God ordered that? Or would you accept that it was the Hebrews justifying their massacre by saying God told them to do it?
Absolutely... The Bible paints a pretty grim picture of Canaanite practices. Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain detailed and lurid lists including: the worship of demonic idols, taboo sexual acts, and even the sacrifice of children to the Canaanite gods. God makes it clear to the Israelites that it is “Not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations…” (Deuteronomy 9:5)
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Post by Dan on Jun 4, 2023 21:01:09 GMT -5
Sure, the wisdom is to resist evil and expel negative characteristics out of your life. The reality is that when we don't, God will inevitably do it for us. Judgement comes, God's patience ultimately has an end.
"And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). That's God's thought process, not mine. No need to rationalize why God ends life, the bible provides a point blank explanation and its not some poetic metaphor.
Jesus willingly sacrificed his life for our sake, to pay the debt for sin. No need to rationalize that fundamental truth, his purpose was self-explanatory. Christians appreciate it because we are no longer dead to sin, but alive in Christ.
You can thank Anselm of Canterbury for your payment theory of atonement. The world wide flood never happened, the story is the vehicle to carry a message...but you literalise the form of the story....Hebrew people thought function therfore that's how they recorded and passed wisdom along, reading it thinking of the form of the translated words is missing the point entirely but is exactly what you are doing. Again it's a horrible thought process to be able to justify in ones own mind that it's ok that ones god kills anyone not like you.....
Anselm of Canterbury's theory came well over a thousand years after the new testament proclaimed; "The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).
So nothing in the bible actually happened? Nothing is literal, just metaphoric stories to relay wisdom? Kind of like a comic book that illustrates a fake narrative to amplify a lesson? Sorry, I'm not buying it..
I'm a sinner, so my God intends to kill everyone like me. I don't need to justify it, I just need to believe in a Savior who took my debts upon himself. One doesn't need to translate any words to grasp that!
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 4, 2023 21:23:57 GMT -5
This is my song , however there will be No violence Glorious Sons , HEAVY ON YOU TUBE !!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2023 0:29:31 GMT -5
You can thank Anselm of Canterbury for your payment theory of atonement. The world wide flood never happened, the story is the vehicle to carry a message...but you literalise the form of the story....Hebrew people thought function therfore that's how they recorded and passed wisdom along, reading it thinking of the form of the translated words is missing the point entirely but is exactly what you are doing. Again it's a horrible thought process to be able to justify in ones own mind that it's ok that ones god kills anyone not like you.....
Anselm of Canterbury's theory came well over a thousand years after the new testament proclaimed; "The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1 John 1:7).
So nothing in the bible actually happened? Nothing is literal, just metaphoric stories to relay wisdom? Kind of like a comic book that illustrates a fake narrative to amplify a lesson? Sorry, I'm not buying it..
I'm a sinner, so my God intends to kill everyone like me. I don't need to justify it, I just need to believe in a Savior who took my debts upon himself. One doesn't need to translate any words to grasp that!
Spot on brother...
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Post by snow on Jun 5, 2023 14:17:41 GMT -5
Do you actually think that God ordered that? Or would you accept that it was the Hebrews justifying their massacre by saying God told them to do it? Absolutely... The Bible paints a pretty grim picture of Canaanite practices. Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain detailed and lurid lists including: the worship of demonic idols, taboo sexual acts, and even the sacrifice of children to the Canaanite gods. God makes it clear to the Israelites that it is “Not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations…” (Deuteronomy 9:5) Many cultures worldwide could be said to be guilty of that even the Hebrews at one point in their history. The Incas, Aztecs are just a few of them. Also, historically it didn't happen. Their cities were not destroyed and they were not massacred by the Israelites. The bible is not accurate in this. www.science.org/content/article/ancient-dna-reveals-fate-mysterious-canaanites#:~:text=Archaeological%20data%20suggests%20that%20Canaanite,millions%20of%20people%20living%20today.
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Post by Dan on Jun 6, 2023 0:15:11 GMT -5
Absolutely... The Bible paints a pretty grim picture of Canaanite practices. Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain detailed and lurid lists including: the worship of demonic idols, taboo sexual acts, and even the sacrifice of children to the Canaanite gods. God makes it clear to the Israelites that it is “Not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations…” (Deuteronomy 9:5) Many cultures worldwide could be said to be guilty of that even the Hebrews at one point in their history. The Incas, Aztecs are just a few of them. Also, historically it didn't happen. Their cities were not destroyed and they were not massacred by the Israelites. The bible is not accurate in this. www.science.org/content/article/ancient-dna-reveals-fate-mysterious-canaanites#:~:text=Archaeological%20data%20suggests%20that%20Canaanite,millions%20of%20people%20living%20today.
God deplores child sacrifice, which may be why the Incas and Aztecs no longer exist either. I don't think that article was very convincing, archaeological excavation have proven that Jericho was destroyed, rebuilt, and then destroyed again. DNA evidence would show that all the people in that region (Sierra, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel) are closely related (90%), as the Canaanites descended from the grandson of Noah (Canaan), so that isn't necessarily relevant evidence.
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Post by Umfolozi on Jun 9, 2023 18:58:25 GMT -5
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