irish
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by irish on Apr 22, 2023 20:53:46 GMT -5
I quoted a question, as to whether you would identify yourself. You said that others should identify themselves to you. I was simply wondering if you’d identify yourself to others. You’ve PMed an acquaintance of mine on this board without identifying yourself by name, but said you were a worker. So, I’m just wondering if you will really identify yourself by name. Just know that Private Messages aren’t always private, especially when you don’t request them to be. If there is mutual desire and agreement between me and the other party to identify and share personal details in a PM exchange I do. Thank you I am quite aware that private messages aren't always private, especially when you don't request them to be. We agree on something then.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 22, 2023 21:15:51 GMT -5
If there is mutual desire and agreement between me and the other party to identify and share personal details in a PM exchange I do. Thank you I am quite aware that private messages aren't always private, especially when you don't request them to be. We agree on something then. I am satisfied and fulfilled in my relationship and experience with God and as part of this church. I'm not seeking anything else. This is God's place for me. I wish you well in whatever your experience in life is, that you are proving deep satisfaction and fulfilment also. 👍😀
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Dean Bruer
Apr 22, 2023 22:20:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by irishoaktree on Apr 22, 2023 22:20:30 GMT -5
😊
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Post by chuck on Apr 22, 2023 22:35:13 GMT -5
I haven't seen a frowning sister worker since before the 90's... They can' afford to frown at you. I think this highlights a fundemental problem.
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Post by fixit on Apr 22, 2023 23:06:58 GMT -5
Professing my entire adult life here, have never given them money. They drive a nicer vehicles than me, wear nicer clothes, have their own table at convention with better food choices, and fly all over the world on convention tours that I could never afford. I feed them and house them for a couple of days per year if they bother inviting themselves over (workers set their own schedule for visits), which they sometimes dont have time for because they are out of country. We have always had good fellowship when they do visit. During COVID we had more gospel meetings and longer visits, which was appreciated. unwatched and irish, you have stated your experiences. Thank you for expressing here. Do you understand and accept that that many friends have a different experience to yours? Do you understand and accept that many friends and ex-friends have a different experience to yours? A lot of people have been hurt over many years, and been kicked to the side of the road and ignored. We should acknowledge that and reach out where we can in sincerity and compassion and humility.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 23, 2023 0:07:12 GMT -5
They can' afford to frown at you. I think this highlights a fundemental problem. It's all about appearance -- and to whom. To be sure, they know perfectly well who to let their guard down with. It's a whole world of mistrust and they know who of the friends gossip and who don't.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 23, 2023 0:11:51 GMT -5
I think this highlights a fundemental problem. It's all about appearance -- and to whom. To be sure, they know perfectly well who to let their guard down with. It's a whole world of mistrust and they know who of the friends gossip and who don't. Once one realizes that many of these workers have feet of clay and it is quite okay and even proper to laugh at them, then they lose any power they have.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 23, 2023 1:23:27 GMT -5
unwatched and irish, you have stated your experiences. Thank you for expressing here. Do you understand and accept that that many friends have a different experience to yours? Do you understand and accept that many friends and ex-friends have a different experience to yours? A lot of people have been hurt over many years, and been kicked to the side of the road and ignored. We should acknowledge that and reach out where we can in sincerity and compassion and humility. Appreciate you using the pronoun 'we'. Appreciate also your reminder and mention of 'sincerity and compassion and humility'. Good qualities to have and live in as well as preach and post about aren't they?
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Post by Annan on Apr 23, 2023 6:49:51 GMT -5
They sleep wherever necessary, not all friends have separate bedrooms or single beds. My sister slept on a wood floor when she was in the Work in Mississippi, she didn't mind because the folks were just dirt poor.
When Workers came to our house, they got the kids beds and the kids slept on the floor.
I know they do. It doesn't matter what the circumstances -- two people sleeping in someone else's marital bed, while the couple is sleeping somewhere else in the same house -- has to be a weirdly bewitching experience. Never thought about this before. There were times when four workers (two men and two women) would visit. We rarely got visits as there were very few 2x2's in our area. My parents always gave up their bed to the workers. The other set of workers slept at my grandmother's house as she had an extra bedroom. Us kids slept in our own beds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 11:18:37 GMT -5
I haven't seen a frowning sister worker since before the 90's... That's even creepier. Normal humans outside a cult get to experience and express a range of emotions Not when it used to be the norm to frown all the time...RR I don't believe ever smiled even once...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 11:20:36 GMT -5
I haven't seen a frowning sister worker since before the 90's... They can' afford to frown at you. *can't
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Post by Dan on Apr 23, 2023 11:38:45 GMT -5
They can' afford to frown at you.
I was frowned at twice by Workers, so apparently they can smile or frown just like the rest of us
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 23, 2023 13:36:35 GMT -5
If they are frowning at me I might be doing something right or just looking too good!🤣
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Post by fixit on Apr 23, 2023 14:42:11 GMT -5
The carnage of the Alberta excommunications is still an open wound. I'm reminded of Dale Shultz's letter of April 12, 1999
Dear _______________.
I want to send letter to a number of people in Alberta who have been communicating with me by letter and/or phone. I have followed the developments in Alberta with interest and concern over these past months. Some of the more recent developments that I am aware of being the court case in Edmonton, the Wednesday study removed from the home of Sam & Barbara Tschetter in Lethbridge, the visit that Eldon Tenniswood, Ernest Nelson and Sydney Holt made to Bevan & Heather Olson at Didsbury, the sale of the Didsbury convention farm which followed that visit and the removal of the Wednesday meeting from the home of John & Shirli O’Dell in Calgary.
I do know that those of you to whom I am writing have felt, for various reasons, that your confidence in the oversight in Alberta has been eroded to a larger or lesser extent in different cases. You have hoped and, at times, expected that some change in the oversight would be implemented. A year ago now, my own expectation was that the overseers as a group would have seen fit to have implemented some changes affecting the province of Alberta. However, as you know, the decision coming out of the meeting of overseers last July was to support the status quo in Alberta. That was not the thinking of everyone there, but it was the decision of the meeting. With Eldon, Ernest and Sydney coming into the province in recent weeks; it remains very evident that the overseers generally are fully supporting Willis and Jim and their oversight in the province.
We could wonder why the support remains so solidly behind Willis and Jim, and it would be possible to advance a number of possible reasons. We know that this stand has been taken after hearing a number of concerns expressed from both workers and friends. I would just like to encourage you to accept this support that Willis and Jim have at the present time as a reality and to respect that decision because it comes from a group of men whom God has called and whom God is using in guiding his work in this part of the earth. If our attitude towards them becomes disrespectful, it is a reflection on our attitude towards God as well.
We realize that the fact that we are servants of God, or even very responsible servants of God, doesn't make us infallible. However, something that is very much a part of being a child of God is to respect those who are over us in the Lord, to pray for them, to obey them, to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. Their judgement may not always be right, but it is always right for us to respect that judgement and to work with it in the best way that we possibly can.
So, there are two possibilities regarding the decision of the overseers to maintain and support the status quo in Alberta. One possibility is that the decision is a right decision for the province. That would mean that they are seeing some things in the picture that some of us are missing when we look at it. Another possibility is that it was not the best decision for the province. But, whichever is the applicable possibility in this case, it does remain the right thing to respect that decision because of where it has come from and to work with it no matter what our own thoughts might be on the subject. This is a very practical area where we can exercise the teaching of 11 Corinthians 10:5, "- bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." We may think that we are "obeying men" and not "obeying Christ" when we submit to something that seems wrong to our own thinking. However, the scriptures teach so much about submission e.g. to the government of the land, wives to husbands, children to parents, the Lord's people to the ministry, etc. That teaching doesn't just apply when the governments, husbands, parents or workers are 100% on the right track, but it applies in a very comprehensive way. We also know that a point could be reached in these different relationships in which submission is generally expected where, because of some deep conviction before God, we would feel that we could not submit to something that is being asked of us. However, there is also great danger in "not submitting" and in taking a rebel attitude when the situation doesn't warrant that extreme position in God's mind.
So, I would like to encourage all of you to accept the present situation, knowing that quite a bit has been done to bring concerns to the attention of the overseers. The present situation remains in spite of these concerns having been very publicly expressed and drawn to the attention of the overseers. Whether the decision is right or wrong, the right thing for all of us is to respect it because of those who have made the judgement. If the decision is wrong, I am sure that the Lord will have ways of correcting that over time. He still is very much on the throne. In the final analysis, there are some things that we just have to leave in his hands. I believe that for anyone to try to force changes now, after all that has been done to bring issues into focus, that it could mean just being very much out of our place.
It is evident that when any stand is taken to restrict the welcome of any workers to your homes that your home will then be considered unsuitable for a meeting. I would certainly encourage you to make the workers welcome in your home. It has been pointed out that this would give you opportunity to show the spirit of Christ to them. We don't want to add to the building of walls in the kingdom; but, rather, be amongst those who are building bridges. The polarization and division that has become so evident in Alberta is extremely dangerous and gives Satan a lot of territory in which to work. Many people tend to be caught up in it and to form camps. It would be wonderful, and very much in keeping with the spirit of Christ, if we could all desire to reach out and begin to build bridges that would span the gulf of division that has evolved. Most of the people on the other side of this gulf are people with whom you would have never had any problem had it not been for this issue which resulted in you taking different sides. When we can get into the presence of the Lord in prayer, find bread for our souls, be influenced and motivated by his spirit, then our influence can be as Ephesians 4:1-3, "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace."
I have appreciated a few visits by phone with Bevan & Heather Olson before and since the day that Eldon, Ernest and Sydney had the visit there. I marvel at their spirit of acceptance and the gracious wa y that they are handling this matter that could have left them feeling very bitter. They are real examples. It will be people like them that will be contributing to a solution rather than promoting a further problem. The spirit of the lamb, the spirit of a little child, the spirit that can take loss graciously without resentment or fighting back - this is the spirit that will not only preserve the kingdom (and preserve our salvation individually) but will also, in time, unite the kingdom.
I can understand your concerns and your feeling of perplexity. I do want you all to come through this experience with your faith deepened and your spirits enriched. In light of the present situation and the understanding of it that I have (which is limited, of course), I have felt that I would like to exhort you in the way that I have expressed in this letter. I think that you know that I am writing to you in this way because of concern and love and a deep interest in your future and the welfare of your souls. I hope that these few lines may be of some help. I have appreciated your communication in the past. I would welcome your response to this if you care to respond.
Yours in Him
Dale Shultz
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 23, 2023 15:16:50 GMT -5
What a wordy way of saying, "Be subservient to the workers".
I recall a discussion with MG at Masterton once along similar lines, about a trivial matter (putting hot water into the cold water tank so the boys could have warm showers) He said even if the workers are wrong, your are right to do as they say. And then the kicker, "Your salvation is on their shoulders".
It subservience that has part-enabled the current situation unfolding before our eyes.
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 23, 2023 15:23:27 GMT -5
The carnage of the Alberta excommunications is still an open wound. I'm reminded of Dale Shultz's letter of April 12, 1999 Another round of excommunications like that might be exactly what is needed to quell the rebellion and bring the the saints back into subjection. The Canadians are lucky to have the battle hardened overseers who know how to do this.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 23, 2023 15:39:13 GMT -5
What a wordy way of saying, "Be subservient to the workers". I recall a discussion with MG at Masterton once along similar lines, about a trivial matter (putting hot water into the cold water tank so the boys could have warm showers) He said even if the workers are wrong, your are right to do as they say. And then the kicker, "Your salvation is on their shoulders". It subservience that has part-enabled the current situation unfolding before our eyes. It is becoming more evident as this unfolds that no worker is annointed by a god.
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Post by fixit on Apr 23, 2023 16:05:45 GMT -5
What a wordy way of saying, "Be subservient to the workers". I recall a discussion with MG at Masterton once along similar lines, about a trivial matter (putting hot water into the cold water tank so the boys could have warm showers) He said even if the workers are wrong, your are right to do as they say. And then the kicker, "Your salvation is on their shoulders". It subservience that has part-enabled the current situation unfolding before our eyes. Wow! That explains the mess they are in.
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Dean Bruer
Apr 23, 2023 16:11:03 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by chuck on Apr 23, 2023 16:11:03 GMT -5
What a wordy way of saying, "Be subservient to the workers". I recall a discussion with MG at Masterton once along similar lines, about a trivial matter (putting hot water into the cold water tank so the boys could have warm showers) He said even if the workers are wrong, your are right to do as they say. And then the kicker, "Your salvation is on their shoulders". It subservience that has part-enabled the current situation unfolding before our eyes. It is becoming more evident as this unfolds that no worker is annointed by a god. Actually they all are, most just sqaunder it.
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 23, 2023 16:15:24 GMT -5
The carnage of the Alberta excommunications is still an open wound. I'm reminded of Dale Shultz's letter of April 12, 1999 Another round of excommunications like that might be exactly what is needed to quell the rebellion and bring the the saints back into subjection. The Canadians are lucky to have the battle hardened overseers who know how to do this. Not just that. Remember Vietnam. www.2x2vietnam.info/
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 23, 2023 16:26:22 GMT -5
Another round of excommunications like that might be exactly what is needed to quell the rebellion and bring the the saints back into subjection. The Canadians are lucky to have the battle hardened overseers who know how to do this. Not just that. Remember Vietnam. www.2x2vietnam.info/Good point. Two very successful examples makes it very attractive to try a third time
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 23, 2023 16:35:34 GMT -5
It is becoming more evident as this unfolds that no worker is annointed by a god. Actually they all are, most just sqaunder it. Actually it's just the vain imaginations of men.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 23, 2023 16:36:13 GMT -5
Another round of excommunications like that might be exactly what is needed to quell the rebellion and bring the the saints back into subjection. The Canadians are lucky to have the battle hardened overseers who know how to do this. Not just that. Remember Vietnam. www.2x2vietnam.info/Don't forget Sri Lanka.
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Dean Bruer
Apr 23, 2023 16:38:08 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 23, 2023 16:38:08 GMT -5
Alberta has never fully healed . Some relatives still don’t speak to others in their families . Which is SO wrong and sad . Vietnam 🇻🇳 was horribly and horrendous . Should not have happened . They seem to be missing the clues (workers) . You keep firing out letters and those bullets are being shot into your feet . If you can’t be truthful get a —cking job ! Stop stealing from those that are struggling during these economic times . Resume required and what are you going to say about your work history , oh no 🙈 🙉🙊
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Dean Bruer
Apr 23, 2023 16:38:49 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 23, 2023 16:38:49 GMT -5
Actually they all are, most just sqaunder it. Actually it's just the vain imaginations of men. Not all Men , but hierarchy of the truth is men , but not all men .
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 23, 2023 16:45:13 GMT -5
What a wordy way of saying, "Be subservient to the workers". I recall a discussion with MG at Masterton once along similar lines, about a trivial matter (putting hot water into the cold water tank so the boys could have warm showers) He said even if the workers are wrong, your are right to do as they say. And then the kicker, "Your salvation is on their shoulders". It subservience that has part-enabled the current situation unfolding before our eyes. Yeah, probably a good overall summary. If you read the letter and read it again, there is quite a bit of nuance in it, and it helps one understand the enormity of the problem. One would think - small fellowship, everyone knows everyone else, overseers have a great deal of authority, CSA is wrong, SA is wrong - solutions should be easy. A clear and unequivocal stance against these activities, and zero tolerance. One would think. Right? Right? !!!! But that hasn't happened, despite so many opportunities given over so many decades. Why not? I read this letter this morning: wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/letters-from-friends-and-workers/usa-friends-to-workers-and-elders/An amazing letter. So much coherence. So much wisdom. And yet it seems that this communication (and so many others) have pretty much been ignored. Why? So much of the exhortations of subservience to the rulers makes every cell in my body stand up and scream "No!" It goes against everything I have come to understand as true in life. I know that I have a good measure of the spirit of "defiance" that Walter Burchinshaw (!) identifies in his letter to Marg M. I thank God for it every day. But I might label it more as discernment.
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Post by fixit on Apr 23, 2023 16:54:21 GMT -5
Another round of excommunications like that might be exactly what is needed to quell the rebellion and bring the the saints back into subjection. The Canadians are lucky to have the battle hardened overseers who know how to do this. Not just that. Remember Vietnam. www.2x2vietnam.info/Yes, another open wound created by the Western Alliance overseers. Underlying the Alberta excommunications was sexual immorality as well. From: tellingthetruth.info/history_divisions/alberta_acct.phpIt became known that some Alberta workers had been involved in improper sexual conduct, and that the ministry’s method of dealing with it was to do everything possible to keep it under wraps “for the sake of the Kingdom” – and at most, move the offending worker to some other part of the province or country, but certainly NOT advise anyone why they had been moved or that they needed to watch out for this worker. We have now come to realize that this has been going on all through the years and in all parts of the world. But at that time, it came as a stunning realization that “Hey, the workers are not the perfect beings they make themselves out to be, and certainly aren’t being directed by God in all they say and do”.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 23, 2023 17:03:44 GMT -5
I know they do. It doesn't matter what the circumstances -- two people sleeping in someone else's marital bed, while the couple is sleeping somewhere else in the same house -- has to be a weirdly bewitching experience. Never thought about this before. There were times when four workers (two men and two women) would visit. We rarely got visits as there were very few 2x2's in our area. My parents always gave up their bed to the workers. The other set of workers slept at my grandmother's house as she had an extra bedroom. Us kids slept in our own beds. I don't think I ever found out where my parents slept when the workers were in their bed. Probably on the couch and floor in the living room. I did enjoy having the older sister worker helping me set traps for mice discovered in the house.
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