irish
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by irish on Apr 22, 2023 10:26:13 GMT -5
Yeah, don’t identify yourself to him. Is he willing to share his true ID? I seriously doubt it. Test your hypothesis by pm ing me if you wish? See if I am as evil as I am portrayed by some? Perhaps I am even worse than that?🤷♂️ I have no reason to contact you. I spoke with the local workers yesterday when they contacted me about being absent from meeting. I told them my reasons for being absent and they want to meet in person to discuss this. I politely refused. There’s no reason to discuss this with local workers any longer, nor with an anonymous worker on a posting board.
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Dean Bruer
Apr 22, 2023 11:16:46 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by neighbour on Apr 22, 2023 11:16:46 GMT -5
Friends need to stop giving the workers money. Let them be truly itinerant and see how many of them stay in the work. As long as we keep forking over $ the workers assume that everything is hunky dory. The fact is, the fellowship can survive without the workers, but the workers can’t survive without the friends. I’m completely over the workers. Professing my entire adult life here, have never given them money. They drive a nicer vehicles than me, wear nicer clothes, have their own table at convention with better food choices, and fly all over the world on convention tours that I could never afford. I feed them and house them for a couple of days per year if they bother inviting themselves over (workers set their own schedule for visits), which they sometimes dont have time for because they are out of country. We have always had good fellowship when they do visit. During COVID we had more gospel meetings and longer visits, which was appreciated.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 22, 2023 14:12:24 GMT -5
Test your hypothesis by pm ing me if you wish? See if I am as evil as I am portrayed by some? Perhaps I am even worse than that?🤷♂️ I have no reason to contact you. I spoke with the local workers yesterday when they contacted me about being absent from meeting. I told them my reasons for being absent and they want to meet in person to discuss this. I politely refused. There’s no reason to discuss this with local workers any longer, nor with an anonymous worker on a posting board. You don't wish to meet your local workers. That's ok. You don't wish to test your hypothesis/your statement "Yeah, don’t identify yourself to him. Is he willing to share his true ID? I seriously doubt it."
That's ok too. Actually what would be the point of it? But I have called your bluff on that.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 22, 2023 14:24:38 GMT -5
Friends need to stop giving the workers money. Let them be truly itinerant and see how many of them stay in the work. As long as we keep forking over $ the workers assume that everything is hunky dory. The fact is, the fellowship can survive without the workers, but the workers can’t survive without the friends. I’m completely over the workers. Professing my entire adult life here, have never given them money. They drive a nicer vehicles than me, wear nicer clothes, have their own table at convention with better food choices, and fly all over the world on convention tours that I could never afford. I feed them and house them for a couple of days per year if they bother inviting themselves over (workers set their own schedule for visits), which they sometimes dont have time for because they are out of country. We have always had good fellowship when they do visit. During COVID we had more gospel meetings and longer visits, which was appreciated. unwatched and irish, you have stated your experiences. Thank you for expressing here. Do you understand and accept that that many friends have a different experience to yours? There are many friends and workers who enjoy a meaningful mutually appreciative relationship. Since this in not your experience I understand and accept your polite refusal to meet the local workers. p.s. It is difficult for some who post on this forum to accept the reality and truth of "There are many friends and workers who enjoy a meaningful mutually appreciative relationship." They will mock it etc etc. But that will not change the reality and truth of it. If someone doesn't enjoy their employment they are wise to seek another job. It is better for them personally and for those they work with. Probably the same about being part of our fellowship/'professing'? Your life, your choices. But accept that others have a very different experience to yours 🤷♂️ I also state that recent matters that have come to light have been deeply concerning for us friends and workers who enjoy this meaningful mutually appreciative relationship. We aren't 'sweeping them under the carpet'. In unity and agreement friends and workers standing united they will be addressed, cleansing and changes must take place. We will be the richer for that. Deride and mock and reject this if you wish.
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Post by snow on Apr 22, 2023 14:52:59 GMT -5
I'm going to be real frank here. If these issues are not dealt with appropriately, the fellowship as we know it will likely implode. You will have people saying they can't be part of something that covers up SA or fails to address SA appropriately when they are aware of the problem. You will have elders that won't be elders of a church with these problems of cover ups. You will have workers who won't be part of a ministry that allows these things to go unheeded. They are so aggregiously wrong. Most of the flock didn't know about these things until now. But it's out now. Also, the idea of a celibate ministry needs to be revisited and who all has a 'say' in who gets accepted into the ministry. Do the sister workers, for example have any input for sisters being accepted? Sister workers have been raped at preps. It's happened more than once. Well, duh. You take a bunch of celibate, single men and women and put them on a farm together for 3 weeks with no oversight and what do you expect? It's needs to be revisited. I read an interesting perspective of a woman that had no contact with the 2x2's. She was talking with her husband who had once been a 2x2 about what is happening and her perspective was this. To paraphrase, so you're telling me that these celibate men and women are expected to go into the ministry, give up everything, never marry or have sex, all the while watching people in the homes they are staying in having all that? Husbands kissing their wives, cuddling their children, making money they can spend any way they want etc. Living with families seeing all things they will never have has got to be hard. It's not much wonder it happens when someone just is faced with those realities plus being placed in a situation where everyone else has what they will never have. I had never really viewed it quite this clearly before I read what she said. So true. It's got to be hard and not much wonder how they've been set up to fail sometimes.
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Post by snow on Apr 22, 2023 15:00:48 GMT -5
Yet another with a twist Site logo image Wings for Truth Jerome Frandle letter to Kentucky and Tennessee friends and workers – April 2023 wingsfortruth2 Apr 21 April 15, 2023 Dear Friends and Fellow workers in Kentucky & Tennessee, We have received word that Dean Bruer, a worker in Northwestern US, who died last fall had been living a double immoral life. There is substantial evidence that this Is true Also another man who was in this ministry and having a place of oversight, has been accused of abusing children, Needless to say. we are shocked by all this and have a heavy heart for the victims. Our prayer is that the victims will continue to seek the Lord in their distress and experience His healing and comfort that He alone can give. Wo are saddened that such horrible things have occurred among our people, that men who have been held in such high esteem and trust have turned out to be like those we hear of in the world, from time to time, without the fear of God, whose horrible deeds have been brought to light To add to this, on Friday this week, a father told us of his daughter, when a girl of being abused by the son of a man who was attending our meetings. This Information just surfaced recently. Since that time, these horrible incidences have plagued her and been so distressing, to say the least. When we received this word, Darin Jensen and I reported the Information to the police in the county of occurrence, We encourage all to report to the authorities (police in the county of occurrence! anyone whose behavior is inappropriate with children; family, neighbor, Worker, friend, etc. Or phone the CHILD ABUSE HOTLINE KY 877-597-2331 or TN 877-237-OCXM. The Workers in the ministry are responsible to notify the authorities as we are mandated reporters. The Workers in Kentucky, Tennessee, Michigan. Ohio, West Virginia, Florida and other states have taken the Child Sexual Abuse Training with Ministry Safe, based at Ft. Worth Texas 6001 River Oaks Ft. Worth Texas 76114 Some states have taken their training every two years for the last ten years. Other states have this source of instruction. We have found this organization to be most helpful. Though we are aware that we are limited, we will standby and support in any way we can, those who have suffered such humiliation and hurt through abuse, who seek help of the Lord and professional help if needed. We are glad we can look to the Lord Jesus for comfort, who is pure, holy and undefiled. Also to those among us who are true, upholding the life of Jesus by word, example love and all purity. Our Lord and chose who follow Him, suffer reproach, because of the corrupt actions of individuals. Sincerely Your brother [Signed by Jerome Frandle] Well if anyone understands the importance of reporting it should be Mr. Frandle. He spent time in jail for not reporting didn't he? When he says there is a limited amount they can do I would say, pay for the victims therapy. It's not like the ministry is broke. Why don't they seem to understand that this is something they should be doing?
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peggysullivan
Senior Member
What is living if I can't be free? What is freedom if I can't be me?
Posts: 662
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Post by peggysullivan on Apr 22, 2023 15:17:21 GMT -5
I'm going to be real frank here. If these issues are not dealt with appropriately, the fellowship as we know it will likely implode. You will have people saying they can't be part of something that covers up SA or fails to address SA appropriately when they are aware of the problem. You will have elders that won't be elders of a church with these problems of cover ups. You will have workers who won't be part of a ministry that allows these things to go unheeded. They are so aggregiously wrong. Most of the flock didn't know about these things until now. But it's out now. Also, the idea of a celibate ministry needs to be revisited and who all has a 'say' in who gets accepted into the ministry. Do the sister workers, for example have any input for sisters being accepted? Sister workers have been raped at preps. It's happened more than once. Well, duh. You take a bunch of celibate, single men and women and put them on a farm together for 3 weeks with no oversight and what do you expect? It's needs to be revisited. I read an interesting perspective of a woman that had no contact with the 2x2's. She was talking with her husband who had once been a 2x2 about what is happening and her perspective was this. To paraphrase, so you're telling me that these celibate men and women are expected to go into the ministry, give up everything, never marry or have sex, all the while watching people in the homes they are staying in having all that? Husbands kissing their wives, cuddling their children, making money they can spend any way they want etc. Living with families seeing all things they will never have has got to be hard. It's not much wonder it happens when someone just is faced with those realities plus being placed in a situation where everyone else has what they will never have. I had never really viewed it quite this clearly before I read what she said. So true. It's got to be hard and not much wonder how they've been set up to fail sometimes. I have wondered the same things! I have also felt that many workers, especially the sister workers seem oppressed, rather than joyous. There are those that can be happily celibate and give up all the usual things married people have. In fact, many of the things married people have end up being a burden, such as debt and the list can be long there; accumulation of 'stuff'. Many people would be happy to simplify. But, the workers have to be around all that like you say. I would not want to spend all my time in someone else's home; I just wouldn't, depending on the type of home it is, of course. If it had a peaceful atmosphere, I might not want to leave! But anyhow, getting off track here. You take men and women and put them on a farm at preps for 3 weeks and some of them might be hornier than hell, and what do you expect? I think that needs to be looked at. It has always been an honor system with the friends just trusting the workers. It's always been an honor system with the friends trusting the workers with the money they are given, too. But now you have it out in the open that two overseers have been living less than honorable. This is a big blow. But I think it's going to cause a paradigm shift and a healthy change. Yes, there will be friends who just want things to get back to normal....they are the complacent ones. But there is likely going to be a new normal. A professing lady once said to me, "Some of these brother workers are like sitting ducks."
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Post by snow on Apr 22, 2023 15:48:33 GMT -5
Professing my entire adult life here, have never given them money. They drive a nicer vehicles than me, wear nicer clothes, have their own table at convention with better food choices, and fly all over the world on convention tours that I could never afford. I feed them and house them for a couple of days per year if they bother inviting themselves over (workers set their own schedule for visits), which they sometimes dont have time for because they are out of country. We have always had good fellowship when they do visit. During COVID we had more gospel meetings and longer visits, which was appreciated. unwatched and irish, you have stated your experiences. Thank you for expressing here. Do you understand and accept that that many friends have a different experience to yours? There are many friends and workers who enjoy a meaningful mutually appreciative relationship. Since this in not your experience I understand and accept your polite refusal to meet the local workers. p.s. It is difficult for some who post on this forum to accept the reality and truth of "There are many friends and workers who enjoy a meaningful mutually appreciative relationship." They will mock it etc etc. But that will not change the reality and truth of it. If someone doesn't enjoy their employment they are wise to seek another job. It is better for them personally and for those they work with. Probably the same about being part of our fellowship/'professing'? Your life, your choices. But accept that others have a very different experience to yours 🤷♂️ I also state that recent matters that have come to light have been deeply concerning for us friends and workers who enjoy this meaningful mutually appreciative relationship. We aren't 'sweeping them under the carpet'. In unity and agreement friends and workers standing united they will be addressed, cleansing and changes must take place. We will be the richer for that. Deride and mock and reject this if you wish. I sincerely do hope that all of this will be addressed and changes will take place. Working together with the friends is the only way for it to happen imo. They have good suggestions and do want things to work out so that they can continue enjoying the type of fellowship they prefer. But if some workers downplay and don't listen, that will make it hard for those workers that do care and want to listen and make changes. I worry that those who want change like yourself will be ignored or even edged out as we have seen by some of the letters and personal stories lately. Maybe this time it will finally be too well known to ignore by some who don't really want change.
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Post by snow on Apr 22, 2023 15:53:45 GMT -5
I read an interesting perspective of a woman that had no contact with the 2x2's. She was talking with her husband who had once been a 2x2 about what is happening and her perspective was this. To paraphrase, so you're telling me that these celibate men and women are expected to go into the ministry, give up everything, never marry or have sex, all the while watching people in the homes they are staying in having all that? Husbands kissing their wives, cuddling their children, making money they can spend any way they want etc. Living with families seeing all things they will never have has got to be hard. It's not much wonder it happens when someone just is faced with those realities plus being placed in a situation where everyone else has what they will never have. I had never really viewed it quite this clearly before I read what she said. So true. It's got to be hard and not much wonder how they've been set up to fail sometimes. I have wondered the same things! I have also felt that many workers, especially the sister workers seem oppressed, rather than joyous. There are those that can be happily celibate and give up all the usual things married people have. In fact, many of the things married people have end up being a burden, such as debt and the list can be long there; accumulation of 'stuff'. Many people would be happy to simplify. But, the workers have to be around all that like you say. I would not want to spend all my time in someone else's home; I just wouldn't, depending on the type of home it is, of course. If it had a peaceful atmosphere, I might not want to leave! But anyhow, getting off track here. You take men and women and put them on a farm at preps for 3 weeks and some of them might be hornier than hell, and what do you expect? I think that needs to be looked at. It has always been an honor system with the friends just trusting the workers. It's always been an honor system with the friends trusting the workers with the money they are given, too. But now you have it out in the open that two overseers have been living less than honorable. This is a big blow. But I think it's going to cause a paradigm shift and a healthy change. Yes, there will be friends who just want things to get back to normal....they are the complacent ones. But there is likely going to be a new normal. A professing lady once said to me, "Some of these brother workers are like sitting ducks." It's definitely not for everyone as you say. I can also see how it's just as difficult, only in different ways. Like you, I would not like to be living in people's homes all the time. I need my own space and the workers never get that. Sure they can go to their rooms, but the second they step out of that room again they are obligated to talk to whoever they come across. No going to the fridge to get a snack and just being able to do that. It's not an easy lifestyle I wouldn't think. And, for an introvert I really can't imagine how they do it.
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irish
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by irish on Apr 22, 2023 16:35:31 GMT -5
I have wondered the same things! I have also felt that many workers, especially the sister workers seem oppressed, rather than joyous. There are those that can be happily celibate and give up all the usual things married people have. In fact, many of the things married people have end up being a burden, such as debt and the list can be long there; accumulation of 'stuff'. Many people would be happy to simplify. But, the workers have to be around all that like you say. I would not want to spend all my time in someone else's home; I just wouldn't, depending on the type of home it is, of course. If it had a peaceful atmosphere, I might not want to leave! But anyhow, getting off track here. You take men and women and put them on a farm at preps for 3 weeks and some of them might be hornier than hell, and what do you expect? I think that needs to be looked at. It has always been an honor system with the friends just trusting the workers. It's always been an honor system with the friends trusting the workers with the money they are given, too. But now you have it out in the open that two overseers have been living less than honorable. This is a big blow. But I think it's going to cause a paradigm shift and a healthy change. Yes, there will be friends who just want things to get back to normal....they are the complacent ones. But there is likely going to be a new normal. A professing lady once said to me, "Some of these brother workers are like sitting ducks." It's definitely not for everyone as you say. I can also see how it's just as difficult, only in different ways. Like you, I would not like to be living in people's homes all the time. I need my own space and the workers never get that. Sure they can go to their rooms, but the second they step out of that room again they are obligated to talk to whoever they come across. No going to the fridge to get a snack and just being able to do that. It's not an easy lifestyle I wouldn't think. And, for an introvert I really can't imagine how they do it. I always understood the doctrine of workers staying in the friends’ home, but for some reason it’s always creeped me out a little. Too close for comfort.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 22, 2023 16:39:31 GMT -5
It's definitely not for everyone as you say. I can also see how it's just as difficult, only in different ways. Like you, I would not like to be living in people's homes all the time. I need my own space and the workers never get that. Sure they can go to their rooms, but the second they step out of that room again they are obligated to talk to whoever they come across. No going to the fridge to get a snack and just being able to do that. It's not an easy lifestyle I wouldn't think. And, for an introvert I really can't imagine how they do it. I always understood the doctrine of workers staying in the friends’ home, but for some reason it’s always creeped me out a little. Too close for comfort.
There are many friends who love the workers coming to stay and workers who love the privilege and richness that comes through staying with our friends and sharing in their lives, "If someone doesn't enjoy their employment they are wise to seek another job. It is better for them personally and for those they work with.Probably the same about being part of our fellowship/'professing'? Your life, your choices. But accept that others have a very different experience to yours 🤷♂️"If living a Christian life/having fellowship with others while you do that is how you wish to live. Then perhaps you could find your needs met in another church or group? They haven't been met in our church for you.
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irish
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by irish on Apr 22, 2023 16:41:43 GMT -5
I always understood the doctrine of workers staying in the friends’ home, but for some reason it’s always creeped me out a little. Too close for comfort.
There are many friends who love the workers coming to stay and workers who love the privilege and richness that comes through staying with our friends and sharing in their lives, "If someone doesn't enjoy their employment they are wise to seek another job. It is better for them personally and for those they work with. Probably the same about being part of our fellowship/'professing'? Your life, your choices. But accept that others have a very different experience to yours 🤷♂️"
I was speaking for myself, and not others. I made that quite clear.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 22, 2023 16:44:41 GMT -5
There are many friends who love the workers coming to stay and workers who love the privilege and richness that comes through staying with our friends and sharing in their lives, "If someone doesn't enjoy their employment they are wise to seek another job. It is better for them personally and for those they work with.Probably the same about being part of our fellowship/'professing'? Your life, your choices. But accept that others have a very different experience to yours 🤷♂️"If living a Christian life/having fellowship with others while you do that is how you wish to live. Then perhaps you could find your needs met in another church or group? They haven't been met in our church for you. I was speaking for myself, and not others. I made that quite clear. Appreciate you making that clear/clarifying that! 👍😀
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2023 17:07:18 GMT -5
I read an interesting perspective of a woman that had no contact with the 2x2's. She was talking with her husband who had once been a 2x2 about what is happening and her perspective was this. To paraphrase, so you're telling me that these celibate men and women are expected to go into the ministry, give up everything, never marry or have sex, all the while watching people in the homes they are staying in having all that? Husbands kissing their wives, cuddling their children, making money they can spend any way they want etc. Living with families seeing all things they will never have has got to be hard. It's not much wonder it happens when someone just is faced with those realities plus being placed in a situation where everyone else has what they will never have. I had never really viewed it quite this clearly before I read what she said. So true. It's got to be hard and not much wonder how they've been set up to fail sometimes. I have wondered the same things! I have also felt that many workers, especially the sister workers seem oppressed, rather than joyous. There are those that can be happily celibate and give up all the usual things married people have. In fact, many of the things married people have end up being a burden, such as debt and the list can be long there; accumulation of 'stuff'. Many people would be happy to simplify. But, the workers have to be around all that like you say. I would not want to spend all my time in someone else's home; I just wouldn't, depending on the type of home it is, of course. If it had a peaceful atmosphere, I might not want to leave! But anyhow, getting off track here. You take men and women and put them on a farm at preps for 3 weeks and some of them might be hornier than hell, and what do you expect? I think that needs to be looked at. It has always been an honor system with the friends just trusting the workers. It's always been an honor system with the friends trusting the workers with the money they are given, too. But now you have it out in the open that two overseers have been living less than honorable. This is a big blow. But I think it's going to cause a paradigm shift and a healthy change. Yes, there will be friends who just want things to get back to normal....they are the complacent ones. But there is likely going to be a new normal. A professing lady once said to me, "Some of these brother workers are like sitting ducks." I haven't seen a frowning sister worker since before the 90's...
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 22, 2023 17:14:33 GMT -5
I have wondered the same things! I have also felt that many workers, especially the sister workers seem oppressed, rather than joyous. There are those that can be happily celibate and give up all the usual things married people have. In fact, many of the things married people have end up being a burden, such as debt and the list can be long there; accumulation of 'stuff'. Many people would be happy to simplify. But, the workers have to be around all that like you say. I would not want to spend all my time in someone else's home; I just wouldn't, depending on the type of home it is, of course. If it had a peaceful atmosphere, I might not want to leave! But anyhow, getting off track here. You take men and women and put them on a farm at preps for 3 weeks and some of them might be hornier than hell, and what do you expect? I think that needs to be looked at. It has always been an honor system with the friends just trusting the workers. It's always been an honor system with the friends trusting the workers with the money they are given, too. But now you have it out in the open that two overseers have been living less than honorable. This is a big blow. But I think it's going to cause a paradigm shift and a healthy change. Yes, there will be friends who just want things to get back to normal....they are the complacent ones. But there is likely going to be a new normal. A professing lady once said to me, "Some of these brother workers are like sitting ducks." I haven't seen a frowning sister worker since before the 90's... That's even creepier. Normal humans outside a cult get to experience and express a range of emotions
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 22, 2023 17:19:11 GMT -5
I have wondered the same things! I have also felt that many workers, especially the sister workers seem oppressed, rather than joyous. There are those that can be happily celibate and give up all the usual things married people have. In fact, many of the things married people have end up being a burden, such as debt and the list can be long there; accumulation of 'stuff'. Many people would be happy to simplify. But, the workers have to be around all that like you say. I would not want to spend all my time in someone else's home; I just wouldn't, depending on the type of home it is, of course. If it had a peaceful atmosphere, I might not want to leave! But anyhow, getting off track here. You take men and women and put them on a farm at preps for 3 weeks and some of them might be hornier than hell, and what do you expect? I think that needs to be looked at. It has always been an honor system with the friends just trusting the workers. It's always been an honor system with the friends trusting the workers with the money they are given, too. But now you have it out in the open that two overseers have been living less than honorable. This is a big blow. But I think it's going to cause a paradigm shift and a healthy change. Yes, there will be friends who just want things to get back to normal....they are the complacent ones. But there is likely going to be a new normal. A professing lady once said to me, "Some of these brother workers are like sitting ducks." It's definitely not for everyone as you say. I can also see how it's just as difficult, only in different ways. Like you, I would not like to be living in people's homes all the time. I need my own space and the workers never get that. Sure they can go to their rooms, but the second they step out of that room again they are obligated to talk to whoever they come across. No going to the fridge to get a snack and just being able to do that. It's not an easy lifestyle I wouldn't think. And, for an introvert I really can't imagine how they do it. I can remember once, when I was 7-8 yo, and a worker hurt my little girl feelings over something. My mother sat me down and explained to me that living out of suitcases in other peoples homes was difficult, and sometimes we had to make special allowances for them. I sometimes (a little flippantly) say that I was never asked (i.e, by God) to go in the work. But it's true. I never considered it, even for half a second. I believe it was a life that neither of my parents (both introverts) ever wished for me. I could never imagine not having my own space, and lots of it. I have a friend from a large Irish Catholic family from Eastern Canada (far more traditional than Catholics in Western Canada). He mentioned once that his mother really wanted him to be a priest and that it was kind of expected of a certain percentage of kids in a larger family. I asked him why he did not become a priest, and he said that he simply liked women way too much. I think it is good to have that kind of self awareness.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 22, 2023 18:56:11 GMT -5
It's definitely not for everyone as you say. I can also see how it's just as difficult, only in different ways. Like you, I would not like to be living in people's homes all the time. I need my own space and the workers never get that. Sure they can go to their rooms, but the second they step out of that room again they are obligated to talk to whoever they come across. No going to the fridge to get a snack and just being able to do that. It's not an easy lifestyle I wouldn't think. And, for an introvert I really can't imagine how they do it. I always understood the doctrine of workers staying in the friends’ home, but for some reason it’s always creeped me out a little. Too close for comfort. It's been common enough for workers to sleep in a couple's marital bed when they visit their house.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 22, 2023 18:58:28 GMT -5
I have wondered the same things! I have also felt that many workers, especially the sister workers seem oppressed, rather than joyous. There are those that can be happily celibate and give up all the usual things married people have. In fact, many of the things married people have end up being a burden, such as debt and the list can be long there; accumulation of 'stuff'. Many people would be happy to simplify. But, the workers have to be around all that like you say. I would not want to spend all my time in someone else's home; I just wouldn't, depending on the type of home it is, of course. If it had a peaceful atmosphere, I might not want to leave! But anyhow, getting off track here. You take men and women and put them on a farm at preps for 3 weeks and some of them might be hornier than hell, and what do you expect? I think that needs to be looked at. It has always been an honor system with the friends just trusting the workers. It's always been an honor system with the friends trusting the workers with the money they are given, too. But now you have it out in the open that two overseers have been living less than honorable. This is a big blow. But I think it's going to cause a paradigm shift and a healthy change. Yes, there will be friends who just want things to get back to normal....they are the complacent ones. But there is likely going to be a new normal. A professing lady once said to me, "Some of these brother workers are like sitting ducks." I haven't seen a frowning sister worker since before the 90's... They can' afford to frown at you.
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irish
New Member
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Post by irish on Apr 22, 2023 19:05:33 GMT -5
I always understood the doctrine of workers staying in the friends’ home, but for some reason it’s always creeped me out a little. Too close for comfort. It's been common enough for workers to sleep in a couple's marital bed when they visit their house. Ooooooo! That’s just wrong 😑
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 22, 2023 19:13:02 GMT -5
It's been common enough for workers to sleep in a couple's marital bed when they visit their house. Ooooooo! That’s just wrong 😑 In the early days in NZ, at least until about 1950, workers would share a bed if necessary.
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irish
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by irish on Apr 22, 2023 19:13:18 GMT -5
I have no reason to contact you. I spoke with the local workers yesterday when they contacted me about being absent from meeting. I told them my reasons for being absent and they want to meet in person to discuss this. I politely refused. There’s no reason to discuss this with local workers any longer, nor with an anonymous worker on a posting board. You don't wish to meet your local workers. That's ok. You don't wish to test your hypothesis/your statement "Yeah, don’t identify yourself to him. Is he willing to share his true ID? I seriously doubt it."
That's ok too. Actually what would be the point of it? But I have called your bluff on that. I quoted a question, as to whether you would identify yourself. You said that others should identify themselves to you. I was simply wondering if you’d identify yourself to others. You’ve PMed an acquaintance of mine on this board without identifying yourself by name, but said you were a worker. So, I’m just wondering if you will really identify yourself by name. Just know that Private Messages aren’t always private, especially when you don’t request them to be.
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irish
New Member
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Dean Bruer
Apr 22, 2023 19:15:11 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by irish on Apr 22, 2023 19:15:11 GMT -5
Ooooooo! That’s just wrong 😑 In the early days in NZ, at least until about 1950, workers would share a bed if necessary. I can see that. Not ideal, but practical if necessary!
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 22, 2023 19:29:50 GMT -5
Ooooooo! That’s just wrong 😑 In the early days in NZ, at least until about 1950, workers would share a bed if necessary. Where I grew up -- they always did.
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Post by Dan on Apr 22, 2023 19:38:06 GMT -5
Yes that is right, but he has no doubt learned from that experience, and his letter was well written. Counseling, apologies, restitution, love, compassion and impartiality also help with healing and comfort.
Hopefully this is the beginning or a turnaround
You see something about restitution in this letter? I’m not seeing it.
I seriously doubt that there will be any voluntary restitution's paid out, unless a victim sues and monetary damages are ordered by a court. But it would still be very difficult to collect. I hope it doesn't come to that.
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Post by Dan on Apr 22, 2023 19:44:00 GMT -5
In the early days in NZ, at least until about 1950, workers would share a bed if necessary. Where I grew up -- they always did.
They sleep wherever necessary, not all friends have separate bedrooms or single beds. My sister slept on a wood floor when she was in the Work in Mississippi, she didn't mind because the folks were just dirt poor.
When Workers came to our house, they got the kids beds and the kids slept on the floor.
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Post by fixit on Apr 22, 2023 19:49:48 GMT -5
I also state that recent matters that have come to light have been deeply concerning for us friends and workers who enjoy this meaningful mutually appreciative relationship. We aren't 'sweeping them under the carpet'. In unity and agreement friends and workers standing united they will be addressed, cleansing and changes must take place. We will be the richer for that. Watch this space.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 22, 2023 19:55:04 GMT -5
Where I grew up -- they always did. They sleep wherever necessary, not all friends have separate bedrooms or single beds. My sister slept on a wood floor when she was in the Work in Mississippi, she didn't mind because the folks were just dirt poor.
When Workers came to our house, they got the kids beds and the kids slept on the floor.
I know they do. It doesn't matter what the circumstances -- two people sleeping in someone else's marital bed, while the couple is sleeping somewhere else in the same house -- has to be a weirdly bewitching experience.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 22, 2023 20:52:32 GMT -5
You don't wish to meet your local workers. That's ok. You don't wish to test your hypothesis/your statement "Yeah, don’t identify yourself to him. Is he willing to share his true ID? I seriously doubt it."
That's ok too. Actually what would be the point of it? But I have called your bluff on that. I quoted a question, as to whether you would identify yourself. You said that others should identify themselves to you. I was simply wondering if you’d identify yourself to others. You’ve PMed an acquaintance of mine on this board without identifying yourself by name, but said you were a worker. So, I’m just wondering if you will really identify yourself by name. Just know that Private Messages aren’t always private, especially when you don’t request them to be. If there is mutual desire and agreement between me and the other party to identify and share personal details in a PM exchange I do. Thank you I am quite aware that private messages aren't always private, especially when you don't request them to be.
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