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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 14, 2023 19:44:20 GMT -5
Appreciate your post mountain!  Let's see what Vinny comes up with!  The dude makes some 'interesting' statements! "* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "- There is absolutely zero proof that Doyle Smith was going to turn in the laptop before speaking to the Private Investigator.- The proof he wasn't going to turn it in were the months that passed with No letter except a glowing letter about Dean Bruer that has since been retracted. There was no mention of ANY wrong doing prior to the laptop being released by him or anyone during September, October, November, December, January, Febuary or March. ONLY glowing and praising words of the late Dean Bruer. (It seems Vinny hasn't read or understood what Doyle stated?) Have you openly acknowledged that past response to CSA in the church has generally been appalling? If you have, I missed it. Absolutely agree there have been instances in the past where the response to CSA in the church has been appalling. There have also been instances in the past where enlightened workers and Overseers have dealt with CSA in the correct manner. (of course those with loaded agendas struggle to acknowledge that). I am also confident that recent events will help ensure that, where necessary measures, policies, code of conduct have not already been implemented. Then that is happening now or will be happening within a very short time frame. Of course this will still be unsatisfactory to a certain type of TMB poster. I don't lose any sleep over them and their agendas |
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 14, 2023 20:59:30 GMT -5
....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. This is a possibility that my mind keeps turning to. But, mostly within the 2X2 organization itself, not outside of it. A quid pro quo situation. 1chinesewhispers has referred to a female predator a few times on here the last week or so. If she is referring to the same situation that I have heard of, this female was actually more of a procurer, than a predator. Shades of human trafficking. Totally repugnant, and extremely poorly handled by management. So it's not unheard of. And, yes, I am stirring the pot. You know exactly whom I am speaking of !!!!! Oh we will just move her to another province !!! I unfortunately found myself in a shed with her on Didsbury convention grounds . It didn’t end well for her . Nobody touches me WITHOUT PERMISSION ! It was mom’s last convention . She is well known for her deeds and 5 yes 5 of her companions are no longer workers because of her . Yes ship her out of Saskatchewan to Alberta . She is buying a stairway to heaven . She was put out , however her parents passed and she handed over everything , every penny to the overseer and was a WORKER AGAIN ! Funny but I have had this conversation about her this week as well . One of my dealings with the PI is aware of her NOW Keep stirring it please !!! I have turned in 4 already . 3 more to go . Not all workers either !!! |
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 14, 2023 21:04:44 GMT -5
1Chinesewhidpers, Happy birthday 🎈🎂🎊🎁🎉 Thx to all the big 62 . Whew I am surprised 😮 I made it this long !!! After all the bull-hit which I never asked for ! |
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Dean Bruer
Apr 14, 2023 21:25:48 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 14, 2023 21:25:48 GMT -5
Happy Birthday Chinesewhispers. Thank you for sharing the information in your post above. You posted helpful information from RAINN which I have responded to below. According to RAINN: * 94 percent of women who are raped experience symptoms of PTSD during the 2 weeks following rape * 30 percent of women who are raped still experience PTSD symptoms 9 months later * 33 percent of women who’ve been raped have contemplated suicide * 13 percent of women who’ve been raped have attempted suicide That level of trauma — especially when left untreated — can damage not just your health but also your career and relationships. >>>>>>>>>>>> My response. A diagnosis of PTSD is not made during the first 4 weeks of the traumatic event. It is called Acute Stress Disorder. If it persists more than 4 weeks it is called PTSD. I would also say that a large number of victim survivors continue to experience PTSD for many years. Although they can learn to manage symptoms, many survivors experience triggers and symptoms for many years. Some for life. I was diagnosed with PTSD myself . Having a five and half hours of testing done by a psychologist/neurologist and she showed me so much . I struggle still with the memories . I was born with ADHD , anxiety panic disorder , I don’t have just panic attacks , I am in fight or flight mode 24/7 , now suffer severe depression and dyslexia as well as early onset of dementia/Alzheimer’s . I will remain on medication for the rest of my life . Someone on here said I probably wasn’t a victim without recognizing that I was A CSA victim and SA victim . Beyond insulting and it took me out for about two days . Unkind & cruel and if that person is professes , I am sorry but their book of life may no be very good . Like really do you effing think about how many people suffered in CSA I was 2 , to imply I am not a victim at age 2 is disgusting 🤢 |
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irish
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Post by irish on Apr 14, 2023 21:30:21 GMT -5
1Chinesewhidpers, Happy birthday 🎈🎂🎊🎁🎉 Thx to all the big 62 . Whew I am surprised 😮 I made it this long !!! After all the bull-hit which I never asked for ! If I was with you, I’d take you out to a nice dinner and bake you a cake. You’re doing fine! 62 is young nowadays. You have many years ahead of you. My birthday wish for you you is that God will bring you healing, happiness, prosperity and peace. I’m Irish (not just in name but actually), so I make this Irish toast to you: “May you live to be 100 years, with one extra year to repent. We drink to your coffin. May it be built from the wood of a hundred year old oak tree that I shall plant tomorrow.” Happy birthday 1Chinesewhisper. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 14, 2023 21:51:35 GMT -5
I am Irish and my name is Trish ! Thank you for your kind words and support very appreciated . Again thanks to all who stood up for me , I am grateful to know you 🙃 I have Irish relations. Some are or have been in the work. If we both type slowly we will be able to understand each other. |
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Dean Bruer
Apr 14, 2023 22:20:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 14, 2023 22:20:34 GMT -5
Vinny. Seriously. You read that letter and what you got was “turning out victims and doing nothing to perpetrators”? And then you’re going to try and tell us you’re a litigator? Give me a break. Go comb the internet for more 2x2 info to keep feeding your little fantasy world. Let's assume that Vinny knows something we all don't .... even if it is shrouded in hyperbolic overstatements. The claim he makes that cuts through for me is the one about the Bruer/Huddle mess being the tip of the iceberg of the largest ever case of CSA in the United States. What would that mean? It can't be the largest in terms of money...evidently there is more money than people realize within the accounts of 2x2 overseers, but not enough to dethrone the settlements that were awarded in the big catholic church settlements. What about in number of perpetrators or victims? Maybe..maybe....I just would be surprised if there are enough 2x2 people in general to make this the case. Here is what may tip the scales....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. And in the case of Bruer...you have a seriously long period of time with lots of travel. I understand that human trafficking is a large multi-country effort for the people engaged in it and for the people investigating it. If Bruer was some sort of player in that world....even if it is not a thing for the 2x2 organization in general....it would be a massive revelation. The law enforcement groups that deal with trafficking have a lot of tools for investigation. Anyways...not trying to merely stir the pot...just trying to be informed and follow these developments. Hopefully we get the clarity we have been promised in the coming week or two. The letter was released in a post for)Wally posted it over 20 hours ago . |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 15, 2023 0:52:57 GMT -5
Vinny. Seriously. You read that letter and what you got was “turning out victims and doing nothing to perpetrators”? And then you’re going to try and tell us you’re a litigator? Give me a break. Go comb the internet for more 2x2 info to keep feeding your little fantasy world. Let's assume that Vinny knows something we all don't .... even if it is shrouded in hyperbolic overstatements. The claim he makes that cuts through for me is the one about the Bruer/Huddle mess being the tip of the iceberg of the largest ever case of CSA in the United States. What would that mean? It can't be the largest in terms of money...evidently there is more money than people realize within the accounts of 2x2 overseers, but not enough to dethrone the settlements that were awarded in the big catholic church settlements. What about in number of perpetrators or victims? Maybe..maybe....I just would be surprised if there are enough 2x2 people in general to make this the case. Here is what may tip the scales....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. And in the case of Bruer...you have a seriously long period of time with lots of travel. I understand that human trafficking is a large multi-country effort for the people engaged in it and for the people investigating it. If Bruer was some sort of player in that world....even if it is not a thing for the 2x2 organization in general....it would be a massive revelation. The law enforcement groups that deal with trafficking have a lot of tools for investigation. Anyways...not trying to merely stir the pot...just trying to be informed and follow these developments. Hopefully we get the clarity we have been promised in the coming week or two. Don’t some overseers appoint elders to hold the money? Ultimately wouldn’t these elders (usually relatively wealthy) be complicit in a case similar to how mafia organizations are taken down by the FBI, using RICO laws to freeze money and potential arrest people like the elders who hide the money for the overseers who protect the predators. |
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Post by chuck on Apr 15, 2023 1:28:34 GMT -5
I could be wrong but my bet is "a worker" Oh John? . . . He was talking down to you, so I assumed pillow or eiderdown sales. Alan won't be happy if he catches him posting on here. I don't have a clue who internationalstudies is, just reackon worker or bigwig 2x2. |
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Post by chuck on Apr 15, 2023 1:34:33 GMT -5
More chuck waffle /fudging and obfuscation about his allegation! It's overdue time that someone has called you out on your misinformation and disinformation. Ok your turn to come up with something else....which will be anything except substantiation of your wild allegation. As if chuck is going to tell you internationalstudies ! Go ask some Head Workers in Australia as chuck has said, especially in Victoria! I know what happens when you drop names, I guarantee a slander campaign would begin within a week. They wont bother asking because they already know the answer. They are just using the fact Im not willing to drag good people's names into the mud to divert attention. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2023 1:37:01 GMT -5
Let's assume that Vinny knows something we all don't .... even if it is shrouded in hyperbolic overstatements. The claim he makes that cuts through for me is the one about the Bruer/Huddle mess being the tip of the iceberg of the largest ever case of CSA in the United States. What would that mean? It can't be the largest in terms of money...evidently there is more money than people realize within the accounts of 2x2 overseers, but not enough to dethrone the settlements that were awarded in the big catholic church settlements. What about in number of perpetrators or victims? Maybe..maybe....I just would be surprised if there are enough 2x2 people in general to make this the case. Here is what may tip the scales....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. And in the case of Bruer...you have a seriously long period of time with lots of travel. I understand that human trafficking is a large multi-country effort for the people engaged in it and for the people investigating it. If Bruer was some sort of player in that world....even if it is not a thing for the 2x2 organization in general....it would be a massive revelation. The law enforcement groups that deal with trafficking have a lot of tools for investigation. Anyways...not trying to merely stir the pot...just trying to be informed and follow these developments. Hopefully we get the clarity we have been promised in the coming week or two. Don’t some overseers appoint elders to hold the money? Ultimately wouldn’t these elders (usually relatively wealthy) be complacent in a case similar to how mafia organizations are taken down by the FBI, using RICO laws to freeze money and potential arrest people like the elders who hide the money for the overseers who protect the predators. complicit? |
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Post by chuck on Apr 15, 2023 1:39:30 GMT -5
It would be foolish to give you my sources. I know it for a fact to be true. How about you go and ask some of head workers in Australia directly and see what they tell you. Ask them this specific question. Do you direct people that want to leave their estate to the workers to leave their estate to certain elders instead? Do you deny it happens? More chuck waffle /fudging and obfuscation about his allegation! It's overdue time that someone has called you out on your misinformation and disinformation. Ok your turn to come up with something else....which will be anything except substantiation of your wild allegation. It happens, I suspect you are in a position that you already know it happens. Do you deny it happens?. If you truly believe its a wild allegation you are kept in the dark or naive. |
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Post by chuck on Apr 15, 2023 1:42:18 GMT -5
Let's assume that Vinny knows something we all don't .... even if it is shrouded in hyperbolic overstatements. The claim he makes that cuts through for me is the one about the Bruer/Huddle mess being the tip of the iceberg of the largest ever case of CSA in the United States. What would that mean? It can't be the largest in terms of money...evidently there is more money than people realize within the accounts of 2x2 overseers, but not enough to dethrone the settlements that were awarded in the big catholic church settlements. What about in number of perpetrators or victims? Maybe..maybe....I just would be surprised if there are enough 2x2 people in general to make this the case. Here is what may tip the scales....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. And in the case of Bruer...you have a seriously long period of time with lots of travel. I understand that human trafficking is a large multi-country effort for the people engaged in it and for the people investigating it. If Bruer was some sort of player in that world....even if it is not a thing for the 2x2 organization in general....it would be a massive revelation. The law enforcement groups that deal with trafficking have a lot of tools for investigation. Anyways...not trying to merely stir the pot...just trying to be informed and follow these developments. Hopefully we get the clarity we have been promised in the coming week or two. Don’t some overseers appoint elders to hold the money? Ultimately wouldn’t these elders (usually relatively wealthy) be complacent in a case similar to how mafia organizations are taken down by the FBI, using RICO laws to freeze money and potential arrest people like the elders who hide the money for the overseers who protect the predators. Yes overseers divert money to elders. |
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Post by luke2236 on Apr 15, 2023 1:53:56 GMT -5
Don’t some overseers appoint elders to hold the money? Ultimately wouldn’t these elders (usually relatively wealthy) be complacent in a case similar to how mafia organizations are taken down by the FBI, using RICO laws to freeze money and potential arrest people like the elders who hide the money for the overseers who protect the predators. complicit? You got me… terrible grammar should have re-read. I’ll make it simple. Since workers hide their salary with elders so they can avoid giving to Cesar what is a Cesar’s, elders basically are the protectors of the workers similar to mafia organizations who hide money to avoid taxes. Elders who protect overseers who protect predators should be held accountable since the 2x2 structure is setup to make money disappear. |
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 15, 2023 3:14:46 GMT -5
More chuck waffle /fudging and obfuscation about his allegation! It's overdue time that someone has called you out on your misinformation and disinformation. Ok your turn to come up with something else....which will be anything except substantiation of your wild allegation. It happens, I suspect you are in a position that you already know it happens. Do you deny it happens?. If you truly believe its a wild allegation you are kept in the dark or naive.  As you wish Chuck! I won't lose too much sleep/sweat it over being labelled 'in the dark' or 'in the know' or naive by chuck the allegator! |
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 15, 2023 3:25:50 GMT -5
Chuck what are you waiting for?
It's your big moment to present the scandal of Overseers giving/diverting/siphoning church funds to 'trusted' elders to spend for their own personal enrichment/use.
That's your allegation isn't it?
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 15, 2023 11:21:00 GMT -5
So your proof that Doyle Smith is your belief in his words? So you have faith he is telling the truth? Odd
Actions speak louder than words and his actions were.........nothing. There were no actions except a glowing account of Bruers life and work. Which was retracted. Doyle Smith CHOSE to do nothing UNTIL the private investigator came to him. His action was to do nothing, say nothing and hope nothing happened. Well it did and because of it alot more is happening. He COULD have gave the laptop over last year, he COULD have said something to the police even anonymously, he COULD have wrote a letter prior to the meeting with the private investigator.
Look dude I get that you like him, I respect that you're loyal, thats great.
But the bottom line is he did NOTHING he said NOTHING but he DID LIE by giving a glowing account of Bruers life and work. Thats WHY he retracted it. His action of doing nothing is exactly whats been done over and over for decades hundreds of times . What he did was follow standard policy. Say nothing and Do nothing. Thats is not honorable, that is not Christlike that is no good to anyone. His silence is an action. Legally he's an accomplice at least because he knowingly did not report crimes.
You have expressed your OPINION, that's fine! That is what this forum is for!
I have nothing to add to my statement:
I take and accept what Doyle has stated at face value, as true until and unless facts emerge that contradict that.
I understand Doyle to be a decent honest man who is dealing with the aftermath of Dean Bruer's double life with advice of professional in the field and with transparency and integrity.
To be blunt and to the point. I consider this latest post of yours to contain more of your emotion based opinion rather than fact.
As I stated you appear to be a case of 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You state a few correct details and a lot of emotion and opinion.
I appreciate how loyal you are and by all accounts you are the typical 2x2er. Loyal to the end regardless of facts or truth. The truth is the truth has covered up crimes for decades and now its coming out. The truth about the truth is more about control and money than about Christ. Hence the shaming, shunning and excommunicating victims and doing NOTHING but move the perpetrators to a new area. That has nothing to do with God my friend, that is about control and lack of accountability.
What would Jesus do? He would NOT do what Doyle did or anyone that didn't report the crimes. Jesus would help the victims, not silence, shame, shun and ex communicate the victims. Doyle is not a good leader or a good Christian. He did not do the right thing UNTIL his hand was forced. That you cant argue with. He did NOTHING absolutely nothing but LIE until the private investigator. Your faith is not proof that he "was going to" do something. Fact is for almost a year he did "nothing". His inaction is proof he did nothing because he didn't do anything. He could have but didn't.
Thats what you believe in and that has nothing to do with Jesus or God and that is sad.
Your opinion, that fine!
Now your other statement:
"* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "
Oh yeah? are going to come up with something to give credibility this 'interesting' statement of yours?
The thing you realize but refuse to admit are two clear facts that present to make the Truth of what happened. I know you have challenges so I will write this slow for you. 1- The fact is that Doyle Smith did N O T H I N G. You can say whatever you want but the fact of the matter is Doyle did absolutely nothing U N T I L he met with the private investigator and was compelled to turn in the laptop. 2- Anything you say on the matter is emotional based "OPINION". Because history says Doyle did nothing, period. Not sure how this is hard to understand. 3- It is not hard except maybe for you to look up how big this case is and it is growing there bud, sorry. There has been few investigations of this size that have ever happened in the United States. Easy to verify bud sorry. 4- I appreciate how strong "your" opinion is however what actually happened proves otherwise. When you make everything bold it only shows that it is you and not I that is emotional. Oops again. You are not going to Heaven following this extremely corrupt religious sect. Bottom line is the entire organization is based on lies, intimidation, coercing and has a "standard policy" of silencing, shaming, shunning and ex-communicating the "victims" and doing NOTHING to the perpetrators except move them to a new area to continue their vile behavior using money that just appears out of nowhere. Let me ask you there Mr studies: Do you deny that the policy is to silence the victim and move the perpetrator? Do you deny that there is no proof other than words after Doyle turned in the laptop? Why didn't he do it sooner? Show me ONE incident where a church leader turned in a pedophile or rapist instead of moving him, just ONE. You words are illogical and I am done talking to you about Doyle Smith, you are not capable of being honest even with yourself. |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 15, 2023 11:24:12 GMT -5
I am not in the slightest troubled by your description of me as a 'weak opponent' nor that you don't acknowledge/understand that your posts contain false baseless accusations ...and crudeness! Carry right on and continue to display your true colours and character.🤷♂️ Bruer's true colours have been revealed. He had feet of clay. It will be interesting to see how many more self rightous pricks who have engaged in immoral or criminal beaviour are exposed. There will be hundreds as there already are. Best post of the day, kudos! |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 15, 2023 11:27:36 GMT -5
1Chinesewhidpers, Happy birthday 🎈🎂🎊🎁🎉 Thx to all the big 62 . Whew I am surprised 😮 I made it this long !!! After all the bull-hit which I never asked for ! Happy Birthday chinesewhispers. Have a fantastic weekend. |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 15, 2023 12:09:31 GMT -5
Let's assume that Vinny knows something we all don't .... even if it is shrouded in hyperbolic overstatements. The claim he makes that cuts through for me is the one about the Bruer/Huddle mess being the tip of the iceberg of the largest ever case of CSA in the United States. What would that mean? It can't be the largest in terms of money...evidently there is more money than people realize within the accounts of 2x2 overseers, but not enough to dethrone the settlements that were awarded in the big catholic church settlements. What about in number of perpetrators or victims? Maybe..maybe....I just would be surprised if there are enough 2x2 people in general to make this the case. Here is what may tip the scales....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. And in the case of Bruer...you have a seriously long period of time with lots of travel. I understand that human trafficking is a large multi-country effort for the people engaged in it and for the people investigating it. If Bruer was some sort of player in that world....even if it is not a thing for the 2x2 organization in general....it would be a massive revelation. The law enforcement groups that deal with trafficking have a lot of tools for investigation. Anyways...not trying to merely stir the pot...just trying to be informed and follow these developments. Hopefully we get the clarity we have been promised in the coming week or two. Don’t some overseers appoint elders to hold the money? Ultimately wouldn’t these elders (usually relatively wealthy) be complacent in a case similar to how mafia organizations are taken down by the FBI, using RICO laws to freeze money and potential arrest people like the elders who hide the money for the overseers who protect the predators. ONLY 8 women and its the biggest in the UK. I have no knowledge of any trafficking of people by the 2x2's however it would not surprise me. There are thousands and thousands each state and across the world of 2x2 members. Being there is no actual membership it is hard t say how many members there are. I was told that this will be one of the biggest sex crimes cases in U.S. history. I do not doubt my source. Time will tell how big it will actually be, it is growing daily. There were a few at the beginning a Bruer then I was told 51, now its well over 200. So yes it is big in the scope of people being investigated and the scope of the investigation. With the money aspect there is rumored to be millions in each Overseer account. If that is true then it will be big as well. How big again time will tell. The longer this goes on the more people will understand that all those people who knowingly did nothing in the leadership are criminals as well. Does anyone bother to wonder about where they get the money for the cars, clothes, food and Hotels? The money comes from the church. Does anyone bother to think of where the money goes to move the perpetrators of these vile crimes? The money comes from the church and every time they moved someone they aided and abetted a criminal, knowingly harbored sexual deviants and contributed to their recidivism and future crimes against more innocent victims. How can ANYONE be a part of an organization who thinks they know more than God, shuns and silences victims and rewards perpetrators? Makes no sense to me |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 15, 2023 12:18:10 GMT -5
More chuck waffle /fudging and obfuscation about his allegation! It's overdue time that someone has called you out on your misinformation and disinformation. Ok your turn to come up with something else....which will be anything except substantiation of your wild allegation. It happens, I suspect you are in a position that you already know it happens. Do you deny it happens?. If you truly believe its a wild allegation you are kept in the dark or naive. Chuck you are correct sir. You know you're speaking truth if Mr Studies scolds you. He is deathly allergic to the truth and logic. Keep up the good work! Don't worry about Mr Studies. He just says alot of things without saying much. Just throws words at things he wants to hide in hopes of obfuscating the situation. Maybe we should call him Mr Idon'tstudy or Mr Ineverstudy ? There seems to be a trend of changing peoples names lol |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 15, 2023 12:48:00 GMT -5
Don’t some overseers appoint elders to hold the money? Ultimately wouldn’t these elders (usually relatively wealthy) be complacent in a case similar to how mafia organizations are taken down by the FBI, using RICO laws to freeze money and potential arrest people like the elders who hide the money for the overseers who protect the predators. complicit? I'm glad you are armed my friend. A well regulated society deters violence and rape. If someone is armed they probably won't get assaulted or raped. Good job bud! |
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 15, 2023 12:53:02 GMT -5
Don’t some overseers appoint elders to hold the money? Ultimately wouldn’t these elders (usually relatively wealthy) be complacent in a case similar to how mafia organizations are taken down by the FBI, using RICO laws to freeze money and potential arrest people like the elders who hide the money for the overseers who protect the predators. ONLY 8 women and its the biggest in the UK. I have no knowledge of any trafficking of people by the 2x2's however it would not surprise me. There are thousands and thousands each state and across the world of 2x2 members. Being there is no actual membership it is hard t say how many members there are. I was told that this will be one of the biggest sex crimes cases in U.S. history. I do not doubt my source. Time will tell how big it will actually be, it is growing daily. There were a few at the beginning a Bruer then I was told 51, now its well over 200. So yes it is big in the scope of people being investigated and the scope of the investigation. With the money aspect there is rumored to be millions in each Overseer account. If that is true then it will be big as well. How big again time will tell. The longer this goes on the more people will understand that all those people who knowingly did nothing in the leadership are criminals as well. Does anyone bother to wonder about where they get the money for the cars, clothes, food and Hotels? The money comes from the church. Does anyone bother to think of where the money goes to move the perpetrators of these vile crimes? The money comes from the church and every time they moved someone they aided and abetted a criminal, knowingly harbored sexual deviants and contributed to their recidivism and future crimes against more innocent victims. How can ANYONE be a part of an organization who thinks they know more than God, shuns and silences victims and rewards perpetrators? Makes no sense to me Wouldn't even the most naive 2x2er know that the money the workers use comes from the church? The question about why do people participate in corrupt organizations has a problem with definition. If even 20% (wild overestimate) of 2x2ers experienced CSA victimization by a worker, that means 80% have a lived experience that is without that sort of trauma and will subscribe to the "bad apple" theory. That majority will be rightly horrified, but will most likely not seek to "burn down" something they see as socially valuable. If CSA promotion and hiding is the only thing the 2x2 tradition is at it's core then it will not last very long (relative to social movements). To the extent it is a functioning social system, it can react appropriately and move towards something that can heal and guide more people in more and more functional ways. This is a viewpoint that would be hard for somebody who has actually been abused to understand. I have immense sympathy for that person.... There is a human need for institutions and when they fail the individual so dramatically, that individual perhaps can never relate functionally to institutions again. The non-traumatized person can float through life trusting and being trusted and feel completely safe even if perhaps they shouldn't while the traumatized person has had thier security ripped from them and will struggle to form even basic bonds. All this to say... I don't see anything yet that is uniquely malignant or uniquely functional in the 2x2 system. Seems to have markers of both. Obviously people with personal connections would probably disagree on other end of that statement. |
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Dean Bruer
Apr 15, 2023 13:01:46 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 15, 2023 13:01:46 GMT -5
Thx to all the big 62 . Whew I am surprised 😮 I made it this long !!! After all the bull-hit which I never asked for ! Happy Birthday chinesewhispers. Have a fantastic weekend. Thx Vinnyt appreciated your birthday days wishes |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 15, 2023 13:12:26 GMT -5
www.firstpost.com/world/uks-biggest-ever-child-sex-abuse-gang-8-women-among-13-convicted-for-145-years-12416962.html ONLY 8 women and its the biggest in the UK. I have no knowledge of any trafficking of people by the 2x2's however it would not surprise me. There are thousands and thousands each state and across the world of 2x2 members. Being there is no actual membership it is hard t say how many members there are. I was told that this will be one of the biggest sex crimes cases in U.S. history. I do not doubt my source. Time will tell how big it will actually be, it is growing daily. There were a few at the beginning a Bruer then I was told 51, now its well over 200. So yes it is big in the scope of people being investigated and the scope of the investigation. With the money aspect there is rumored to be millions in each Overseer account. If that is true then it will be big as well. How big again time will tell. The longer this goes on the more people will understand that all those people who knowingly did nothing in the leadership are criminals as well. Does anyone bother to wonder about where they get the money for the cars, clothes, food and Hotels? The money comes from the church. Does anyone bother to think of where the money goes to move the perpetrators of these vile crimes? The money comes from the church and every time they moved someone they aided and abetted a criminal, knowingly harbored sexual deviants and contributed to their recidivism and future crimes against more innocent victims. How can ANYONE be a part of an organization who thinks they know more than God, shuns and silences victims and rewards perpetrators? Makes no sense to me Wouldn't even the most naive 2x2er know that the money the workers use comes from the church? The question about why do people participate in corrupt organizations has a problem with definition. If even 20% (wild overestimate) of 2x2ers experienced CSA victimization by a worker, that means 80% have a lived experience that is without that sort of trauma and will subscribe to the "bad apple" theory. That majority will be rightly horrified, but will most likely not seek to "burn down" something they see as socially valuable. If CSA promotion and hiding is the only thing the 2x2 tradition is at it's core then it will not last very long (relative to social movements). To the extent it is a functioning social system, it can react appropriately and move towards something that can heal and guide more people in more and more functional ways. This is a viewpoint that would be hard for somebody who has actually been abused to understand. I have immense sympathy for that person.... There is a human need for institutions and when they fail the individual so dramatically, that individual perhaps can never relate functionally to institutions again. The non-traumatized person can float through life trusting and being trusted and feel completely safe even if perhaps they shouldn't while the traumatized person has had thier security ripped from them and will struggle to form even basic bonds. All this to say... I don't see anything yet that is uniquely malignant or uniquely functional in the 2x2 system. Seems to have markers of both. Obviously people with personal connections would probably disagree on other end of that statement. Thank you for your reply. Wow, an educated person who's not attacking me. You are a breath of fresh air. Productive discourse is what this is and it it much appreciated. |
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 15, 2023 13:14:51 GMT -5
Vinny, Don't mind, but after reading your latest series of posts I come to the conclusion that if you are the big guy you claim to be that teaches the cops and military or whatever it is, then pity help the military and the cops! Sorry about that, but this is how you come across! 🤷♂️ You seem incapable of understanding that Doyle has stated that what he has done has been with the advice of professionals in the field of CSA and with the consideration of now adult victims being the primary concern. While it still remains for you to substantiate your statement: "* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "
fondly your "Mr Idon'tstudy" or "Mr Ineverstudy" (as you refer to me )
p.s did you call the cops and military names too when they didn't see it your way? p.p.s oh yes I smile at your benediction for me too; to quote: You are not going to Heaven following this extremely corrupt religious sect. Bottom line is the entire organization is based on lies, intimidation, coercing and has a "standard policy" of silencing, shaming, shunning and ex-communicating the "victims" and doing NOTHING to the perpetrators except move them to a new area to continue their vile behavior using money that just appears out of nowhere.
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 15, 2023 13:15:50 GMT -5
it remains for my dear friend chuck the allegator
Chuck what are you waiting for?
It's your big moment to present the scandal of Overseers giving/diverting/siphoning church funds to 'trusted' elders to spend for their own personal enrichment/use.
That's your allegation isn't it?
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 15, 2023 14:17:10 GMT -5
Here are some things that show the depth of sexual deviance in the 2x2s. Convicted leaders: wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/convicted-csa-offenders/Letters from leaders talking about Sexual abuse and crimes: wingsfortruth.info/breaking-the-silence-2/letters-to-friends-and-workers/I apologize if these have already been posted but contrary to what Mr needstostudy says there aren't a few isolated incidents there is a LONG and ongoing history of the sexual abuse in the 2x2s. It has been going on for decades with little being done to stop it and A LOT of effort going into silencing/shaming/shunning the victims and doing absolutely NOTHING but paying to have the perpetrators moved, homed and put into a fresh new area free to continue their vile ways. This has happened over and over for the entire time the church has existed. |
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