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Post by jennyfromtheblock on Apr 14, 2023 13:46:19 GMT -5
False accusations are rare and professionals are trained to pick up on it when they do occur. Which is one reason amateurs (including workers) should stay out of it. It is hard to make an argument for the problem of who to take accounts of abuse to that rests on the training or good outcomes of the group you take the accounts to. (apologies for the confusing sentence). Much has been made on this message board of the fact that appealing to the authorities is the best thing to do (very true), but it is the reality that even the "trained" professionals track record is not great. People who are not totally ignorant of how the world works will have definitely heard about abusers getting off on a "technicality" or escaping justice due to some jurisdictional shenanigans. And then there are the cases where people do actually make false claims of abuse...perhaps rare but they poison the well pretty badly. Not only that...but in cases of SA and CSA, ambiguity hangs over the vast majority of these situations where direct evidence is hard to come by. There is a tension between protecting victims and protecting due process that appropriately exists. In the past, that tension did not exist at all and perpetrators who were valuable to the social system (clergy, teachers, authority figures in general) merely had to make sure that their actions were physically undetectable and they were largely protected from consequence. Now there is a better understanding of the damage that was done so efforts to protect victims have been put into place...it's not perfect. The reason to take abuse cases to the legal authorities is because it is better than taking it to the religious/social/family/spritual authorities....but it still is no guarantee that real justice and healing happens. Once the legal system gets involved, hopefully it can quickly stop abuse from going further but the healing/thriving of people will come from somewhere else. (re-reading this...sounds preachy to me....srry) If workers were smart they wouldn't want to take on that sort of liability anyways. Taking direction from police is the best course of action. Wasn't there an overseer in Michigan that went to jail for not reporting abuse? You could be held responsible for mishandling a situation, even if you thought you were doing the right thing. And as congregants, its really not fair to even put workers in that sort of position (not an excuse for past problems, not victim blaming). |
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 14, 2023 14:40:55 GMT -5
It is hard to make an argument for the problem of who to take accounts of abuse to that rests on the training or good outcomes of the group you take the accounts to. (apologies for the confusing sentence). Much has been made on this message board of the fact that appealing to the authorities is the best thing to do (very true), but it is the reality that even the "trained" professionals track record is not great. People who are not totally ignorant of how the world works will have definitely heard about abusers getting off on a "technicality" or escaping justice due to some jurisdictional shenanigans. And then there are the cases where people do actually make false claims of abuse...perhaps rare but they poison the well pretty badly. Not only that...but in cases of SA and CSA, ambiguity hangs over the vast majority of these situations where direct evidence is hard to come by. There is a tension between protecting victims and protecting due process that appropriately exists. In the past, that tension did not exist at all and perpetrators who were valuable to the social system (clergy, teachers, authority figures in general) merely had to make sure that their actions were physically undetectable and they were largely protected from consequence. Now there is a better understanding of the damage that was done so efforts to protect victims have been put into place...it's not perfect. The reason to take abuse cases to the legal authorities is because it is better than taking it to the religious/social/family/spritual authorities....but it still is no guarantee that real justice and healing happens. Once the legal system gets involved, hopefully it can quickly stop abuse from going further but the healing/thriving of people will come from somewhere else. (re-reading this...sounds preachy to me....srry) If workers were smart they wouldn't want to take on that sort of liability anyways. Taking direction from police is the best course of action. Wasn't there an overseer in Michigan that went to jail for not reporting abuse? You could be held responsible for mishandling a situation, even if you thought you were doing the right thing. And as congregants, its really not fair to even put workers in that sort of position (not an excuse for past problems, not victim blaming). very true very true...Is anybody accusing workers of being smart though? (slightly tongue-in-cheek...but only slightly). Also..I'm sad I missed your passive-aggressive remarks....  It will become necessary to sperate the function of the police from the function of religious/moral leadership here. The police are specialized to identify criminals ... they are not very good, and in fact, can be counterproductive to helping non-criminals....that is why when dealing with law enforcement in the U.S., it is always best to do it through a lawyer no matter how innocent you are. Nowadays, there are people who work alongside law-enforcement that are specifically trying to help victims. Unfortunately there are not enough good social workers, teachers, coaches, counselors or whatever to fill the protective role that a single functioning parent could easily fill, much less two parents. |
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Post by snow on Apr 14, 2023 14:42:41 GMT -5
Lay off. Attacking chinesewhispers is not a good look ever. You have no idea what they have gone through and this question is just disgusting. update: I see reading further in this thread that you have apologized. Thank you. Thx for your input Snow. This reminds of something a rape victim said once. "They won't believe me because I am mentally ill." She was sobbing when she said it. I thought it was so sad. I believed her and told her that. But, sadly there are many people who discount the mentally ill or anyone with "issues" as making it up. While it's true there have been false allegations, most victims are NOT MAKING IT UP, no matter what their frame of mind might be. Also, sadly, perpetrators will sometimes pick their victims based on how vulnerable they are and that can include those who have mental issues. And they think no one will believe them. They want to keep it a secret, so they will choose victims based on that. In this manner vulnerable adults like DD people are taken advantage of. So true Peggysullivan. It certainly happens and it's just wrong. Especially since the likelihood is that the abuse was the cause in the first place for some. Thinking you won't be believed, or somehow questioned that you must have done something to deserve it is a huge obstacle for many who are afraid to report. It's especially true if you've been raised to believe that it's the woman's obligation to not tempt men. |
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Post by mountain on Apr 14, 2023 15:07:23 GMT -5
How is it being far fetched to have trained law enforcement? I have trained law enforcement officers in a specialised field and in more normal duties. I can freely give a description of this to you. It would not be a big deal nor secret. Also, not a lot of people do what I did. There is not alot of people that do what I did. If you think getting paid to teach law enforcement is far fetched then I cannot help you. This highlights just why a pinch of salt needs to be applied to your claims. I never made such claim, nor did you make such a statement beforehand.
Please understand that there are many many different people and associations that train law enforcement personnel. I do understand this very much from personal working experience.
I am not going to give details so people the likes of mr studies can try to sniff out my identity. I could have trained them on forensic accounting, I could have worked at a college, I could have worked in specialized combat, I could have worked in fitness, I could have worked in many types of fields that higher level law enforcement are required to take. Thats far fetched? Could haves may equal fantasy? On the other hand maybe not. There is not much to go by here.
If I find it far fetched that you're in the UK and have any remote knowledge of anything. Doesn't mean that you don't. No, but I am prepared to divulge details of my claims.
If you all don't want to believe what I say that's your prerogative. I have nothing to prove to a bunch of people that don't like what I have to say , why would I? It is not a case of 'want to believe,' it is more a case of assessing your claims without surrendering our good old fashioned common sense applied to the quality of claims made.
EVERYTHING I have said is the truth.
I have not called you a liar! I asked you the capacity in which you carried out your claims. Your failure to satisfactorily answer my reasonable question compels me to reach for the packet of sodium chloride!
I have given facts that came to pass long before anyone else did regardless if you believe it or not, what I said happened and then some. Whether there is any truth in this or not, it has no bearing on the claims you made and certainly doesn't answer the fair question that I asked. |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 14, 2023 15:41:39 GMT -5
How is it being far fetched to have trained law enforcement? I have trained law enforcement officers in a specialised field and in more normal duties. I can freely give a description of this to you. It would not be a big deal nor secret. Also, not a lot of people do what I did. There is not alot of people that do what I did. If you think getting paid to teach law enforcement is far fetched then I cannot help you. This highlights just why a pinch of salt needs to be applied to your claims. I never made such claim, nor did you make such a statement beforehand.
Please understand that there are many many different people and associations that train law enforcement personnel. I do understand this very much from personal working experience.
I am not going to give details so people the likes of mr studies can try to sniff out my identity. I could have trained them on forensic accounting, I could have worked at a college, I could have worked in specialized combat, I could have worked in fitness, I could have worked in many types of fields that higher level law enforcement are required to take. Thats far fetched? Could haves may equal fantasy? On the other hand maybe not. There is not much to go by here.
If I find it far fetched that you're in the UK and have any remote knowledge of anything. Doesn't mean that you don't. No, but I am prepared to divulge details of my claims.
If you all don't want to believe what I say that's your prerogative. I have nothing to prove to a bunch of people that don't like what I have to say , why would I? It is not a case of 'want to believe,' it is more a case of assessing your claims without surrendering our good old fashioned common sense applied to the quality of claims made.
EVERYTHING I have said is the truth.
I have not called you a liar! I asked you the capacity in which you carried out your claims. Your failure to satisfactorily answer my reasonable question compels me to reach for the packet of sodium chloride!
I have given facts that came to pass long before anyone else did regardless if you believe it or not, what I said happened and then some. Whether there is any truth in this or not, it has no bearing on the claims you made and certainly doesn't answer the fair question that I asked.
Not really sure what will satisfy your answer without saying specifically what i did. I honestly don't know why my old profession is of such importance. The info I gave was accurate and panned out. The longer things go on the more you will see how accurate I am. This case is huge involves hundreds of victims and hundreds of millions of dollars. And before you ask about that do your research it is ![]() out there. Of course this is speculation and we are not privy to the scope or depth of the investigation. What I "can" say is that the investigation is massive across multiple states and is growing. Also that it involves far more than the heinous crimes of rape and child sexual abuse. There are vast amounts of money floating around and most of it is illegal in its use because it comes from ill gotten gains. Money obtained from ill gotten gains cannot be used as legal tender and if it is thats money laundering. There will be many agencies involved in this in the U.S. for other countries it is not my concern. Do I know more? Yes a little but it s only small specifics that if made public could undermine the investigation. I will not divulge anything too specific, I will speak in general terms and give general info as to what has happened, will happen and so on.
I like you Mountain you are one of the few that are respectful. doubt me all you want thats your choice. However being patient will pay off as things are progressing quickly. There is still a long road ahead though.
Use all the salt you need, kinda sounds like you have a sodium deficiency. Might want to increase tour daily intake of sodium or use a supplement. Personally I use garlic salt on occasion and sometimes Johnny's which is good on most things.Attachments:
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Post by mrdobalina on Apr 14, 2023 15:48:36 GMT -5
So no fresh material then? Reminds me of your mate Walter Frank, he told a ripping yarn about the prodigal son at Ngaire convention, and no doubt every other convention he attended. Several years ago I was watching an old rerun of Billy Graham, and it turns out Walter had copied him word for word. Given that you pedal lies and pedophiles I wouldn't be too cocky though, I've been dropping names of kiddie fiddlers to one of your "work"mates today, good luck. Your venom and false accusations are 'water of a duck's back'; you poor thing. Acid harming the vessel it is stored in rather than that which is poured out on. 🤷♂️ Interestingly there is no venom or false accusations contained in my post. In this case wally would say "good try though" I would describe you as a weak opponent. |
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 14, 2023 15:52:22 GMT -5
If workers were smart they wouldn't want to take on that sort of liability anyways. Taking direction from police is the best course of action. Wasn't there an overseer in Michigan that went to jail for not reporting abuse? You could be held responsible for mishandling a situation, even if you thought you were doing the right thing. And as congregants, its really not fair to even put workers in that sort of position (not an excuse for past problems, not victim blaming). very true very true...Is anybody accusing workers of being smart though? (slightly tongue-in-cheek...but only slightly). Also..I'm sad I missed your passive-aggressive remarks.... It will become necessary to sperate the function of the police from the function of religious/moral leadership here. The police are specialized to identify criminals ... they are not very good, and in fact, can be counterproductive to helping non-criminals....that is why when dealing with law enforcement in the U.S., it is always best to do it through a lawyer no matter how innocent you are. Nowadays, there are people who work alongside law-enforcement that are specifically trying to help victims. Unfortunately there are not enough good social workers, teachers, coaches, counselors or whatever to fill the protective role that a single functioning parent could easily fill, much less two parents. Here is a letter where he admits to tuning out victims and doing nothing to the perpetrators. As is the standard policy. Essentially it is free reign for rapists and pedophiles for decades. With the involvement of lawyers can help no doubt. But often times it has been difficult because they are part of the BAR association and they are the ones who say what can and cannot be done, I am a litigator and have seen many times where doing the right thing becomes next to impossible, It is very easy to bury someone in motions or stall things by filing writs, Injunctions, motions and the like. Or a cease and desist is another way. Then you have to combat each and everything filed in order to continue. It can get messy very quickly once lawyers are involved. Myself I didn't have to deal with that as I was on the criminal investigation side of things for prosecution. I have seen good people with solid cases get mired up because they were buried in motions and ran out of money to fight them. It is a common tactic to use and larger corporations call it "starving out a case." By filing so many motions that the injured party cannot afford to fight them and the case eventually is dismissed. Attachments:
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Post by Vinny T. on Apr 14, 2023 16:17:35 GMT -5
Hi Vinz, You stated the following in a recent post: 'However on the basis of being transparent I am not law enforcement but have trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T.' You are obviously a major contributor of the information on this thread. It would be interesting to know in what capacity you trained many law enforcement professionals including detectives and S.W.A.T. members?' Many thanks. Appreciate your post mountain!  Let's see what Vinny comes up with!  The dude makes some 'interesting' statements! "* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "- There is absolutely zero proof that Doyle Smith was going to turn in the laptop before speaking to the Private Investigator.- The proof he wasn't going to turn it in were the months that passed with No letter except a glowing letter about Dean Bruer that has since been retracted. There was no mention of ANY wrong doing prior to the laptop being released by him or anyone during September, October, November, December, January, Febuary or March. ONLY glowing and praising words of the late Dean Bruer. (It seems Vinny hasn't read or understood what Doyle stated?) So your proof that Doyle Smith is your belief in his words? So you have faith he is telling the truth? Odd Actions speak louder than words and his actions were.........nothing. There were no actions except a glowing account of Bruers life and work. Which was retracted. Doyle Smith CHOSE to do nothing UNTIL the private investigator came to him. His action was to do nothing, say nothing and hope nothing happened. Well it did and because of it alot more is happening. He COULD have gave the laptop over last year, he COULD have said something to the police even anonymously, he COULD have wrote a letter prior to the meeting with the private investigator. Look dude I get that you like him, I respect that you're loyal, thats great. But the bottom line is he did NOTHING he said NOTHING but he DID LIE by giving a glowing account of Bruers life and work. Thats WHY he retracted it. His action of doing nothing is exactly whats been done over and over for decades hundreds of times . What he did was follow standard policy. Say nothing and Do nothing. Thats is not honorable, that is not Christlike that is no good to anyone. His silence is an action. Legally he's an accomplice at least because he knowingly did not report crimes. I appreciate how loyal you are and by all accounts you are the typical 2x2er. Loyal to the end regardless of facts or truth. The truth is the truth has covered up crimes for decades and now its coming out. The truth about the truth is more about control and money than about Christ. Hence the shaming, shunning and excommunicating victims and doing NOTHING but move the perpetrators to a new area. That has nothing to do with God my friend, that is about control and lack of accountability. What would Jesus do? He would NOT do what Doyle did or anyone that didn't report the crimes. Jesus would help the victims, not silence, shame, shun and ex communicate the victims. Doyle is not a good leader or a good Christian. He did not do the right thing UNTIL his hand was forced. That you cant argue with. He did NOTHING absolutely nothing but LIE until the private investigator. Your faith is not proof that he "was going to" do something. Fact is for almost a year he did "nothing". His inaction is proof he did nothing because he didn't do anything. He could have but didn't. Thats what you believe in and that has nothing to do with Jesus or God and that is sad. |
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 14, 2023 16:34:21 GMT -5
It was bob it was directed at... Still going over your head. I want to thank everyone who came out to show your support over these last few days !! You all know who you are . Nothing but love and respect for all of you ! |
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 14, 2023 16:36:39 GMT -5
Appreciate your post mountain! Let's see what Vinny comes up with! The dude makes some 'interesting' statements! "* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "- There is absolutely zero proof that Doyle Smith was going to turn in the laptop before speaking to the Private Investigator.- The proof he wasn't going to turn it in were the months that passed with No letter except a glowing letter about Dean Bruer that has since been retracted. There was no mention of ANY wrong doing prior to the laptop being released by him or anyone during September, October, November, December, January, Febuary or March. ONLY glowing and praising words of the late Dean Bruer. (It seems Vinny hasn't read or understood what Doyle stated?)
Actions speak louder than words and his actions were.........nothing. There were no actions except a glowing account of Bruers life and work. Which was retracted. Doyle Smith CHOSE to do nothing UNTIL the private investigator came to him. His action was to do nothing, say nothing and hope nothing happened. Well it did and because of it alot more is happening. He COULD have gave the laptop over last year, he COULD have said something to the police even anonymously, he COULD have wrote a letter prior to the meeting with the private investigator.
Look dude I get that you like him, I respect that you're loyal, thats great.
But the bottom line is he did NOTHING he said NOTHING but he DID LIE by giving a glowing account of Bruers life and work. Thats WHY he retracted it. His action of doing nothing is exactly whats been done over and over for decades hundreds of times . What he did was follow standard policy. Say nothing and Do nothing. Thats is not honorable, that is not Christlike that is no good to anyone. His silence is an action. Legally he's an accomplice at least because he knowingly did not report crimes.
You have expressed your OPINION, that's fine! That is what this forum is for!
I have nothing to add to my statement:
I take and accept what Doyle has stated at face value, as true until and unless facts emerge that contradict that.
I understand Doyle to be a decent honest man who is dealing with the aftermath of Dean Bruer's double life with advice of professional in the field and with transparency and integrity.
To be blunt and to the point. I consider this latest post of yours to contain more of your emotion based opinion rather than fact.
As I stated you appear to be a case of 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You state a few correct details and a lot of emotion and opinion.
I appreciate how loyal you are and by all accounts you are the typical 2x2er. Loyal to the end regardless of facts or truth. The truth is the truth has covered up crimes for decades and now its coming out. The truth about the truth is more about control and money than about Christ. Hence the shaming, shunning and excommunicating victims and doing NOTHING but move the perpetrators to a new area. That has nothing to do with God my friend, that is about control and lack of accountability.
What would Jesus do? He would NOT do what Doyle did or anyone that didn't report the crimes. Jesus would help the victims, not silence, shame, shun and ex communicate the victims. Doyle is not a good leader or a good Christian. He did not do the right thing UNTIL his hand was forced. That you cant argue with. He did NOTHING absolutely nothing but LIE until the private investigator. Your faith is not proof that he "was going to" do something. Fact is for almost a year he did "nothing". His inaction is proof he did nothing because he didn't do anything. He could have but didn't.
Thats what you believe in and that has nothing to do with Jesus or God and that is sad.
Your opinion, that fine!
Now your other statement:
"* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "
Oh yeah? are going to come up with something to give credibility this 'interesting' statement of yours?
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 14, 2023 16:40:43 GMT -5
Your venom and false accusations are 'water of a duck's back'; you poor thing. Acid harming the vessel it is stored in rather than that which is poured out on. 🤷♂️ Interestingly there is no venom or false accusations contained in my post. In this case wally would say "good try though" I would describe you as a weak opponent. I am not in the slightest troubled by your description of me as a 'weak opponent' nor that you don't acknowledge/understand that your posts contain false baseless accusations ...and crudeness! Carry right on and continue to display your true colours and character.🤷♂️ |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 14, 2023 16:45:21 GMT -5
Interestingly there is no venom or false accusations contained in my post. In this case wally would say "good try though" I would describe you as a weak opponent. I am not in the slightest troubled by your description of me as a 'weak opponent' nor that you don't acknowledge/understand that your posts contain false baseless accusations ...and crudeness! Carry right on and continue to display your true colours and character.🤷♂️ The crudeness is called for when dealing with criminals hiding behind their self rightousness. Marshmellows like you are in for a wake up. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 14, 2023 16:47:36 GMT -5
Interestingly there is no venom or false accusations contained in my post. In this case wally would say "good try though" I would describe you as a weak opponent. I am not in the slightest troubled by your description of me as a 'weak opponent' nor that you don't acknowledge/understand that your posts contain false baseless accusations ...and crudeness! Carry right on and continue to display your true colours and character.🤷♂️ Bruer's true colours have been revealed. He had feet of clay. It will be interesting to see how many more self rightous pricks who have engaged in immoral or criminal beaviour are exposed. |
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Post by fixit on Apr 14, 2023 17:03:55 GMT -5
Your venom and false accusations are 'water of a duck's back'; you poor thing. Acid harming the vessel it is stored in rather than that which is poured out on.🤷♂️ A 'water off a duck's back' attitude is why the organisation is in such a mess. |
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irish
New Member
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Post by irish on Apr 14, 2023 17:04:16 GMT -5
1Chinesewhidpers, Happy birthday 🎈🎂🎊🎁🎉
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Dean Bruer
Apr 14, 2023 17:11:17 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 1chinesewhispers on Apr 14, 2023 17:11:17 GMT -5
Lastly the term you can’t fix stupid is not what mama says it belongs to this man
You can’t fix stupid” is a popular American expression. “But I can’t fix stupid” was in the comic strip Shoe by Jeff MacNelly (1947-2000) on August 4, 1991. Jim White (1937-2009), an American radio talk-show host on KMOX, in St. Louis, Missouri, frequently used the expression and was credited for it in a newspaper on February 2, 1995, but there is no evidence that he used the expression as early as 1991.
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Post by jennyfromtheblock on Apr 14, 2023 17:16:21 GMT -5
very true very true...Is anybody accusing workers of being smart though? (slightly tongue-in-cheek...but only slightly). Also..I'm sad I missed your passive-aggressive remarks.... It will become necessary to sperate the function of the police from the function of religious/moral leadership here. The police are specialized to identify criminals ... they are not very good, and in fact, can be counterproductive to helping non-criminals....that is why when dealing with law enforcement in the U.S., it is always best to do it through a lawyer no matter how innocent you are. Nowadays, there are people who work alongside law-enforcement that are specifically trying to help victims. Unfortunately there are not enough good social workers, teachers, coaches, counselors or whatever to fill the protective role that a single functioning parent could easily fill, much less two parents. Here is a letter where he admits to tuning out victims and doing nothing to the perpetrators. As is the standard policy. Essentially it is free reign for rapists and pedophiles for decades. With the involvement of lawyers can help no doubt. But often times it has been difficult because they are part of the BAR association and they are the ones who say what can and cannot be done, I am a litigator and have seen many times where doing the right thing becomes next to impossible, It is very easy to bury someone in motions or stall things by filing writs, Injunctions, motions and the like. Or a cease and desist is another way. Then you have to combat each and everything filed in order to continue. It can get messy very quickly once lawyers are involved. Myself I didn't have to deal with that as I was on the criminal investigation side of things for prosecution. I have seen good people with solid cases get mired up because they were buried in motions and ran out of money to fight them. It is a common tactic to use and larger corporations call it "starving out a case." By filing so many motions that the injured party cannot afford to fight them and the case eventually is dismissed. Vinny. Seriously. You read that letter and what you got was “turning out victims and doing nothing to perpetrators”? And then you’re going to try and tell us you’re a litigator? Give me a break. Go comb the internet for more 2x2 info to keep feeding your little fantasy world. Edit - if you’re referring to his apology for such actions, then yes. I’ll give you that. However, you did reinterpret his words - he apologized for lack of action and accountability. You made a statement that comes off that he was “turning out victims” and then you proceeded to say that you’re a litigator. This is pathological. I’m an idiot for even engaging in this nonsense. |
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Post by internationalstudies on Apr 14, 2023 17:24:07 GMT -5
Your venom and false accusations are 'water of a duck's back'; you poor thing. Acid harming the vessel it is stored in rather than that which is poured out on.🤷♂️ A 'water off a duck's back' attitude is why the organisation is in such a mess. What is your approach when false accusations are made about you?When they are made about me, I smile and dismiss them from mind, they are 'water off a duck's back' for me. Don't sweat or lose any sleep about them!🤷♂️ When allegations have basis. I sit up and listen! I find is helpful that the small clique who post their false baseless allegations get asked to provide something back up their (empty) words.🤷♂️ |
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Post by deepdeep on Apr 14, 2023 17:41:54 GMT -5
Here is a letter where he admits to tuning out victims and doing nothing to the perpetrators. As is the standard policy. Essentially it is free reign for rapists and pedophiles for decades. With the involvement of lawyers can help no doubt. But often times it has been difficult because they are part of the BAR association and they are the ones who say what can and cannot be done, I am a litigator and have seen many times where doing the right thing becomes next to impossible, It is very easy to bury someone in motions or stall things by filing writs, Injunctions, motions and the like. Or a cease and desist is another way. Then you have to combat each and everything filed in order to continue. It can get messy very quickly once lawyers are involved. Myself I didn't have to deal with that as I was on the criminal investigation side of things for prosecution. I have seen good people with solid cases get mired up because they were buried in motions and ran out of money to fight them. It is a common tactic to use and larger corporations call it "starving out a case." By filing so many motions that the injured party cannot afford to fight them and the case eventually is dismissed. Vinny. Seriously. You read that letter and what you got was “turning out victims and doing nothing to perpetrators”? And then you’re going to try and tell us you’re a litigator? Give me a break. Go comb the internet for more 2x2 info to keep feeding your little fantasy world. Let's assume that Vinny knows something we all don't .... even if it is shrouded in hyperbolic overstatements. The claim he makes that cuts through for me is the one about the Bruer/Huddle mess being the tip of the iceberg of the largest ever case of CSA in the United States. What would that mean? It can't be the largest in terms of money...evidently there is more money than people realize within the accounts of 2x2 overseers, but not enough to dethrone the settlements that were awarded in the big catholic church settlements. What about in number of perpetrators or victims? Maybe..maybe....I just would be surprised if there are enough 2x2 people in general to make this the case. Here is what may tip the scales....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. And in the case of Bruer...you have a seriously long period of time with lots of travel. I understand that human trafficking is a large multi-country effort for the people engaged in it and for the people investigating it. If Bruer was some sort of player in that world....even if it is not a thing for the 2x2 organization in general....it would be a massive revelation. The law enforcement groups that deal with trafficking have a lot of tools for investigation. Anyways...not trying to merely stir the pot...just trying to be informed and follow these developments. Hopefully we get the clarity we have been promised in the coming week or two. |
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Dean Bruer
Apr 14, 2023 17:53:59 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jennyfromtheblock on Apr 14, 2023 17:53:59 GMT -5
Vinny. Seriously. You read that letter and what you got was “turning out victims and doing nothing to perpetrators”? And then you’re going to try and tell us you’re a litigator? Give me a break. Go comb the internet for more 2x2 info to keep feeding your little fantasy world. Let's assume that Vinny knows something we all don't .... even if it is shrouded in hyperbolic overstatements. The claim he makes that cuts through for me is the one about the Bruer/Huddle mess being the tip of the iceberg of the largest ever case of CSA in the United States. What would that mean? It can't be the largest in terms of money...evidently there is more money than people realize within the accounts of 2x2 overseers, but not enough to dethrone the settlements that were awarded in the big catholic church settlements. What about in number of perpetrators or victims? Maybe..maybe....I just would be surprised if there are enough 2x2 people in general to make this the case. Here is what may tip the scales....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. And in the case of Bruer...you have a seriously long period of time with lots of travel. I understand that human trafficking is a large multi-country effort for the people engaged in it and for the people investigating it. If Bruer was some sort of player in that world....even if it is not a thing for the 2x2 organization in general....it would be a massive revelation. The law enforcement groups that deal with trafficking have a lot of tools for investigation. Anyways...not trying to merely stir the pot...just trying to be informed and follow these developments. Hopefully we get the clarity we have been promised in the coming week or two. That is very kind of you. Nothing will surprise me at this point. I’m interested to see how things will develop, and I think it’ll probably be pretty ugly when the lights come on. In respect to ol Vinz, for someone that claims to train police, military and is now also a litigator… he isn’t just hyperbolic, he’s irresponsible and unprofessional. Grain of salt. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 14, 2023 17:59:05 GMT -5
Let's assume that Vinny knows something we all don't .... even if it is shrouded in hyperbolic overstatements. The claim he makes that cuts through for me is the one about the Bruer/Huddle mess being the tip of the iceberg of the largest ever case of CSA in the United States. What would that mean? It can't be the largest in terms of money...evidently there is more money than people realize within the accounts of 2x2 overseers, but not enough to dethrone the settlements that were awarded in the big catholic church settlements. What about in number of perpetrators or victims? Maybe..maybe....I just would be surprised if there are enough 2x2 people in general to make this the case. Here is what may tip the scales....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. And in the case of Bruer...you have a seriously long period of time with lots of travel. I understand that human trafficking is a large multi-country effort for the people engaged in it and for the people investigating it. If Bruer was some sort of player in that world....even if it is not a thing for the 2x2 organization in general....it would be a massive revelation. The law enforcement groups that deal with trafficking have a lot of tools for investigation. Anyways...not trying to merely stir the pot...just trying to be informed and follow these developments. Hopefully we get the clarity we have been promised in the coming week or two. That is very kind of you. Nothing will surprise me at this point. I’m interested to see how things will develop, and I think it’ll probably be pretty ugly when the lights come on. In respect to ol Vinz, for someone that claims to train police, military and is now also a litigator… he isn’t just hyperbolic, he’s irresponsible and unprofessional. Grain of salt. His claims on here are as interesting as the guy who used to be on here that sniffed gas or sold it. He sniffed more than he sold. |
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Dean Bruer
Apr 14, 2023 18:01:43 GMT -5
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Post by jennyfromtheblock on Apr 14, 2023 18:01:43 GMT -5
That is very kind of you. Nothing will surprise me at this point. I’m interested to see how things will develop, and I think it’ll probably be pretty ugly when the lights come on. In respect to ol Vinz, for someone that claims to train police, military and is now also a litigator… he isn’t just hyperbolic, he’s irresponsible and unprofessional. Grain of salt. His claims on here are as interesting as the guy who used to be on here that sniffed gas or sold it. He sniffed more than he sold. Ya I don’t know who that is. But I agree. |
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 14, 2023 18:27:16 GMT -5
....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. This is a possibility that my mind keeps turning to. But, mostly within the 2X2 organization itself, not outside of it. A quid pro quo situation. 1chinesewhispers has referred to a female predator a few times on here the last week or so. If she is referring to the same situation that I have heard of, this female was actually more of a procurer, than a predator. Shades of human trafficking. Totally repugnant, and extremely poorly handled by management. So it's not unheard of. And, yes, I am stirring the pot. |
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Post by chuck on Apr 14, 2023 19:00:00 GMT -5
Appreciate your post mountain! Let's see what Vinny comes up with! The dude makes some 'interesting' statements! "* I can also say that to "to my knowledge" this is going to be the biggest or one of the biggest sex crime cases involving a religious order in the United States. "- There is absolutely zero proof that Doyle Smith was going to turn in the laptop before speaking to the Private Investigator.- The proof he wasn't going to turn it in were the months that passed with No letter except a glowing letter about Dean Bruer that has since been retracted. There was no mention of ANY wrong doing prior to the laptop being released by him or anyone during September, October, November, December, January, Febuary or March. ONLY glowing and praising words of the late Dean Bruer. (It seems Vinny hasn't read or understood what Doyle stated?) Have you openly acknowledged that past response to CSA in the church has generally been appalling? If you have, I missed it. For some the church comes before the individual, for others the individual comes before the church. Generally what happens is people get hurt when the Church is placed before the individuals. The irony in all of this is the Christ character is all about the individual and individual responsibility towards others and unfortunately too many religious folk who say they are "believers" or words to that effect place their religious system before their individual responsibilities towards others be it people like them or not like them. You haven't missed anything fixit. |
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Post by Mary on Apr 14, 2023 19:12:10 GMT -5
Happy Birthday Chinesewhispers.
Thank you for sharing the information in your post above.
You posted helpful information from RAINN which I have responded to below.
According to RAINN:
* 94 percent of women who are raped experience symptoms of PTSD during the 2 weeks following rape
* 30 percent of women who are raped still experience PTSD symptoms 9 months later
* 33 percent of women who’ve been raped have contemplated suicide
* 13 percent of women who’ve been raped have attempted suicide
That level of trauma — especially when left untreated — can damage not just your health but also your career and relationships.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
My response.
A diagnosis of PTSD is not made during the first 4 weeks of the traumatic event. It is called Acute Stress Disorder. If it persists more than 4 weeks it is called PTSD.
I would also say that a large number of victim survivors continue to experience PTSD for many years. Although they can learn to manage symptoms, many survivors experience triggers and symptoms for many years. Some for life.
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Post by jennyfromtheblock on Apr 14, 2023 19:15:47 GMT -5
....what if there is a trafficking aspect here? That would be pretty huge. This is a possibility that my mind keeps turning to. But, mostly within the 2X2 organization itself, not outside of it. A quid pro quo situation. 1chinesewhispers has referred to a female predator a few times on here the last week or so. If she is referring to the same situation that I have heard of, this female was actually more of a procurer, than a predator. Shades of human trafficking. Totally repugnant, and extremely poorly handled by management. So it's not unheard of. And, yes, I am stirring the pot. I’ve heard through the grapevine about female predator(s), but not in a procurer type capacity. Not dismissing the idea, it’s entirely possible and potentially fits with some of the other bombs that were dropped this week (outside of these boards). But what’s the payoff? Money? Status? Gratification? Power? |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Apr 14, 2023 19:20:38 GMT -5
This is a possibility that my mind keeps turning to. But, mostly within the 2X2 organization itself, not outside of it. A quid pro quo situation. 1chinesewhispers has referred to a female predator a few times on here the last week or so. If she is referring to the same situation that I have heard of, this female was actually more of a procurer, than a predator. Shades of human trafficking. Totally repugnant, and extremely poorly handled by management. So it's not unheard of. And, yes, I am stirring the pot. I’ve heard through the grapevine about female predator(s), but not in a procurer type capacity. Not dismissing the idea, it’s entirely possible and potentially fits with some of the other bombs that were dropped this week (outside of these boards). But what’s the payoff? Money? Status? Gratification? Power? It could be all of those. The work has attracted or produced some very twisted minds. |
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 14, 2023 19:41:31 GMT -5
This is a possibility that my mind keeps turning to. But, mostly within the 2X2 organization itself, not outside of it. A quid pro quo situation. 1chinesewhispers has referred to a female predator a few times on here the last week or so. If she is referring to the same situation that I have heard of, this female was actually more of a procurer, than a predator. Shades of human trafficking. Totally repugnant, and extremely poorly handled by management. So it's not unheard of. And, yes, I am stirring the pot. I’ve heard through the grapevine about female predator(s), but not in a procurer type capacity. Not dismissing the idea, it’s entirely possible and potentially fits with some of the other bombs that were dropped this week (outside of these boards). But what’s the payoff? Money? Status? Gratification? Power? Expensive clothing? (We are not talking of a deeply principled individual here.) And, yes, to some degree, all of the things you mention. |
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