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Post by verna on Nov 20, 2022 15:06:50 GMT -5
I have respect for you Maryhig because you have always conducted yourself in a respectful manner. But I disagree. I have always felt kind of curious about people who are so convinced of their ability to “control” their thinking and behaviour. I have, I’m sure, been influenced by my early experience with particularly ferocious intrusive thoughts (I should add I was fully confident in and subservient to God and Jesus at that time). Anyway on a slightly different note I was listening to a holistic medicine practitioner talking about how often people say that if they were to be diagnosed with cancer they would be able to heal themselves with positive thinking and life changes. His response was “you can’t even keep yourself from eating that bloody chocolate bar! So much for will power. I am much less convinced of the power of our will than you are - with or without God’s help. I don’t think we will be judged by that quality. I do however strongly advocate for being kind and will make every effort to do this no matter how many times a day I fall down in this respect. I hope others will do the same. I can't do it all myself, but God has helped me change my ways. I'm totally different to what I was. God had been showing me where I go wrong and i have a choice, listen to him or carry on with what I'm doing. And as i listen to him my life changes for the better, the things I used to think so important don't matter to me anymore. He gave people a choice when he gave them the commandments, he doesn't make us to it, we have free will to choose to listen or not. As Joshua said, choose you this day whom you serve. I can understand how adopting a paradigm can help us in living our best life. I cannot jump from this to calling it truth.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 20, 2022 15:20:03 GMT -5
Yes, a truth can be true before its ever proven to be so. A couple centuries ago, man walking on the moon was a lie because it was unproven and considered impossible. So I'm not sure we can trust your methodology of determining what's true.
I was defining 'truth', not 'proof'.. You should question everything, but there's no guarantee you'll be satisfied with the answers. The proof of the Truth was manifested in Christ and recorded by eye witnesses. If you were on a jury and had affidavits from 4 eyewitnesses all testifying to the same thing, you'd likely believe them? But you cannot prove a spiritual reality with physical evidence, belief is a necessity.
Jesus quit breathing and yet he lives, so he defied your absolute truth. Gravity holds you on the earth, but Jesus disproved that physical absolute when he walked on water. Proof can be a confirmation of a truth, but its not a requirement.
People lie, so we are often required to substantiate what we claim to be true. Not everyone had faith in Obama, so he was asked to authenticate where he was born. If one rose from the grave, I'd say that's ample authentification of who he was.
The truth was proven when it was manifested in Christ. When that truth is embraced, you don't need any defense of a lie.
If a truth does not have to have proof then anything can be defined as 'truth. And, you confirmed that when you said that Jesus continued to live after he quit breathing. That is one of the most deluded things I have heard yet from theists. If you quit breathing you die Dan. That is absolute truth. What you believe about Jesus is not truth it's belief. It takes faith to believe in something that is categorically impossible in the world we live in and we have absolutely no proof that there is any other realm after death. That is belief based on faith, not proof or truth. Believing truth doesn't need proof is a dangerous mindset and it results in the Q crowd and other cults. ** Jesus died on Calvary's Cross, his Spirit went to Hades for 3 days and nights to set Free the Old Testament believers souls held as Satan's prisoners bbecause of sins. Jesus paid the ransom priced for our sins so, God the Father raised him from the dead and gave Him a new resurrection body. Jesus stayed, ate with the apostles 40 days to expound the scriptures he is the Messiah that Moses, the laws, and the prophets had foretold to come. In I Cor. 15 the resurrected Jesus had a meeting or gathering of over 500 believers at one time. Tell me, can a dead person do that? Jesus was dead and God raised him back to life again and He and the TRUE believers will NEVER die again or the Second Death.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 20, 2022 15:29:50 GMT -5
Ironically, this whole statement is abstraction and philosophical jargon. It can be discussed and believed endlessly without ever being submitted to an iota of anything empirical. It's "worth" is entirely commensurate with one's need to enter into an investment in an emotional soundness. Sorry Bob, I don't understand what you mean. You sound like Lee and its over my head as his posts are also sometimes. I understand. No problem. Trust me, Lee understands you, not me.
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Post by Annan on Nov 20, 2022 16:43:42 GMT -5
If a truth does not have to have proof then anything can be defined as 'truth. And, you confirmed that when you said that Jesus continued to live after he quit breathing. That is one of the most deluded things I have heard yet from theists. If you quit breathing you die Dan. That is absolute truth. What you believe about Jesus is not truth it's belief. It takes faith to believe in something that is categorically impossible in the world we live in and we have absolutely no proof that there is any other realm after death. That is belief based on faith, not proof or truth. Believing truth doesn't need proof is a dangerous mindset and it results in the Q crowd and other cults. ** Jesus died on Calvary's Cross, his Spirit went to Hades for 3 days and nights to set Free the Old Testament believers souls held as Satan's prisoners bbecause of sins. Jesus paid the ransom priced for our sins so, God the Father raised him from the dead and gave Him a new resurrection body. Jesus stayed, ate with the apostles 40 days to expound the scriptures he is the Messiah that Moses, the laws, and the prophets had foretold to come. In I Cor. 15 the resurrected Jesus had a meeting or gathering of over 500 believers at one time. Tell me, can a dead person do that? Jesus was dead and God raised him back to life again and He and the TRUE believers will NEVER die again or the Second Death. Can’t use the bible to prove the bible, Natie. You’ve been told that before. WONDERLAND IS REAL! Psst…. Dead is dead.
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Post by snow on Nov 20, 2022 17:22:23 GMT -5
If a truth does not have to have proof then anything can be defined as 'truth. And, you confirmed that when you said that Jesus continued to live after he quit breathing. That is one of the most deluded things I have heard yet from theists. If you quit breathing you die Dan. That is absolute truth. What you believe about Jesus is not truth it's belief. It takes faith to believe in something that is categorically impossible in the world we live in and we have absolutely no proof that there is any other realm after death. That is belief based on faith, not proof or truth. Believing truth doesn't need proof is a dangerous mindset and it results in the Q crowd and other cults. ** Jesus died on Calvary's Cross, his Spirit went to Hades for 3 days and nights to set Free the Old Testament believers souls held as Satan's prisoners bbecause of sins. Jesus paid the ransom priced for our sins so, God the Father raised him from the dead and gave Him a new resurrection body. Jesus stayed, ate with the apostles 40 days to expound the scriptures he is the Messiah that Moses, the laws, and the prophets had foretold to come. In I Cor. 15 the resurrected Jesus had a meeting or gathering of over 500 believers at one time. Tell me, can a dead person do that? Jesus was dead and God raised him back to life again and He and the TRUE believers will NEVER die again or the Second Death. Nathan, it's all a belief. The original point is that there are absolute truths. Like if you, Nathan, stop breathing you will die. The bible cannot be proved and quoting the bible to prove the bible is called circular. Test it out. Quit breathing, see how long you live. Then tell me it's not an absolute truth. Truth is something that has been proved. That's what it is by definition. It's true that when you quit breathing, you die physically for all you people who think you have a soul and 'live' after death.
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nathan2
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 20, 2022 17:49:57 GMT -5
** Jesus died on Calvary's Cross, his Spirit went to Hades for 3 days and nights to set Free the Old Testament believers souls held as Satan's prisoners bbecause of sins. Jesus paid the ransom priced for our sins so, God the Father raised him from the dead and gave Him a new resurrection body. Jesus stayed, ate with the apostles 40 days to expound the scriptures he is the Messiah that Moses, the laws, and the prophets had foretold to come. In I Cor. 15 the resurrected Jesus had a meeting or gathering of over 500 believers at one time. Tell me, can a dead person do that? Jesus was dead and God raised him back to life again and He and the TRUE believers will NEVER die again or the Second Death. Nathan, it's all a belief. The original point is that there are absolute truths. Like if you, Nathan, stop breathing you will die. The bible cannot be proved and quoting the bible to prove the bible is called circular. Test it out. Quit breathing, see how long you live. Then tell me it's not an absolute truth. Truth is something that has been proved. That's what it is by definition. It's true that when you quit breathing, you die physically for all you people who think you have a soul and 'live' after death. ** In Matthew 17 we read Peter, James and John saw Moses and Eijah appeared and talked to Jesus on the Mountain of transfiguratation for quite awhile. You said once dead is dead, right? Moses and Elijad died thousands of years ago. How do you explain that event? Where did they come from? And where did they go after they had visited with Jesus? By the way, God said I am the God of the Living Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... To me God said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are ALIVE and NOT dead. Do you think God lied to us for saying Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who died thousands of years ago are still alive today? Yes, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob physical bodies died but NOT their souls. We read in the book Rev. The souls of believers were under altar in heaven, they were conscious and asked God to avenge their enemies. God told them to rest and wait. He will revenge the deaths of their enemies on the earth.
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Post by Annan on Nov 20, 2022 19:41:09 GMT -5
** Jesus died on Calvary's Cross, his Spirit went to Hades for 3 days and nights to set Free the Old Testament believers souls held as Satan's prisoners bbecause of sins. Jesus paid the ransom priced for our sins so, God the Father raised him from the dead and gave Him a new resurrection body. Jesus stayed, ate with the apostles 40 days to expound the scriptures he is the Messiah that Moses, the laws, and the prophets had foretold to come. In I Cor. 15 the resurrected Jesus had a meeting or gathering of over 500 believers at one time. Tell me, can a dead person do that? Jesus was dead and God raised him back to life again and He and the TRUE believers will NEVER die again or the Second Death. Nathan, it's all a belief. The original point is that there are absolute truths. Like if you, Nathan, stop breathing you will die. The bible cannot be proved and quoting the bible to prove the bible is called circular. Test it out. Quit breathing, see how long you live. Then tell me it's not an absolute truth. Truth is something that has been proved. That's what it is by definition. It's true that when you quit breathing, you die physically for all you people who think you have a soul and 'live' after death. I sometimes wonder why any of us bother explaining anything to Natie. He’s so wrapped up in his delusions that comprehension is beyond him. Wonderland is real, Natie.
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Post by Dan on Nov 21, 2022 0:52:54 GMT -5
If a truth does not have to have proof then anything can be defined as 'truth. And, you confirmed that when you said that Jesus continued to live after he quit breathing. That is one of the most deluded things I have heard yet from theists. If you quit breathing you die Dan. That is absolute truth. What you believe about Jesus is not truth it's belief. It takes faith to believe in something that is categorically impossible in the world we live in and we have absolutely no proof that there is any other realm after death. That is belief based on faith, not proof or truth. Believing truth doesn't need proof is a dangerous mindset and it results in the Q crowd and other cults.
A person can deduce something is true without objective evidence.. Many people have been convicted of crimes on the testimony of a witness or two, yet the gospel is rejected despite many witnesses.
God cannot be proven via conventional evidence because He is beyond our observations, measurements, tests, and methodology of substantiating a truth, so our objectivity can pretty much be thrown out a window. Even a miracle is not evidence, because 'objective' evidence requires our understanding, and since we can't explain a miracle, it can't past our test.
That said, there is subjective evidence to support the bible. There is archeological, prophetic, historical, and recorded evidence witnessed by many people.
It comes down to Christ, were his words true or false? If he lied, then he was not the Truth, but "No deceit was found in his mouth" (1 Peter 2:22).
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible". Yes, the Truth is accepted by faith, but faith is not based on nothing.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 21, 2022 3:29:26 GMT -5
If a truth does not have to have proof then anything can be defined as 'truth. And, you confirmed that when you said that Jesus continued to live after he quit breathing. That is one of the most deluded things I have heard yet from theists. If you quit breathing you die Dan. That is absolute truth. What you believe about Jesus is not truth it's belief. It takes faith to believe in something that is categorically impossible in the world we live in and we have absolutely no proof that there is any other realm after death. That is belief based on faith, not proof or truth. Believing truth doesn't need proof is a dangerous mindset and it results in the Q crowd and other cults.
A person can deduce something is true without objective evidence.. Many people have been convicted of crimes on the testimony of a witness or two, yet the gospel is rejected despite many witnesses.
God cannot be proven via conventional evidence because He is beyond our observations, measurements, tests, and methodology of substantiating a truth, so our objectivity can pretty much be thrown out a window. Even a miracle is not evidence, because 'objective' evidence requires our understanding, and since we can't explain a miracle, it can't past our test.
That said, there is subjective evidence to support the bible. There is archeological, prophetic, historical, and recorded evidence witnessed by many people.
It comes down to Christ, were his words true or false? If he lied, then he was not the Truth, but "No deceit was found in his mouth" (1 Peter 2:22).
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible". Yes, the Truth is accepted by faith, but faith is not based on nothing.
The existence of our universe including our planet is not dependant on the existence of any god.
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Post by maryhig on Nov 21, 2022 3:39:31 GMT -5
I agree, but God looks at the heart so he will know who is trying to fool him and who isn't. This is something people believe and rely on because of what they have been taught. It's truly sad that they are being lied to if God doesn't really just take anyone who decides to use Pascal's wager to get into heaven because they were told it would work. Jesus tells us clearly who gets to heaven. And it's those who live by the will of the father and not just saying I believe in their last breath thinking they will be OK. But God knows the heart and why they say they believe and whether its sincere or not. Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
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Post by maryhig on Nov 21, 2022 3:41:41 GMT -5
I can't do it all myself, but God has helped me change my ways. I'm totally different to what I was. God had been showing me where I go wrong and i have a choice, listen to him or carry on with what I'm doing. And as i listen to him my life changes for the better, the things I used to think so important don't matter to me anymore. He gave people a choice when he gave them the commandments, he doesn't make us to it, we have free will to choose to listen or not. As Joshua said, choose you this day whom you serve. I can understand how adopting a paradigm can help us in living our best life. I cannot jump from this to calling it truth. Can you tell me what you believe that Jesus taught that was wrong please?
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Post by verna on Nov 21, 2022 3:55:27 GMT -5
I can understand how adopting a paradigm can help us in living our best life. I cannot jump from this to calling it truth. Can you tell me what you believe that Jesus taught that was wrong please? I don’t know if Jesus taught anything that was wrong. I’m unconvinced that we know for sure what Jesus taught or believed. We only have the Bible to tell us about Jesus. It was written years later, likely by people who had not met Jesus, in another language, copied hundreds of times with many errors. It was decided some time later what would be included in the Bible by high ups in a church that many consider corrupt. I understand that it was likely only by flukes of happenstance (unless you believe in divine intervention I suppose) that Christianity was adopted as the religion of choice (ie Constantine). If I got some details here wrong forgive me. I am only just learning about the tenuous history of Christianity. So perhaps Jesus taught some amazing stuff but I will never really know. I am very reluctant to criticize beliefs that people hold so dear but I am also learning that there is a conspiracy of silence regarding religious matters and that concerns me.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 21, 2022 4:13:32 GMT -5
Can you tell me what you believe that Jesus taught that was wrong please? I don’t know if Jesus taught anything that was wrong. I’m unconvinced that we know for sure what Jesus taught or believed. We only have the Bible to tell us about Jesus. It was written years later, likely by people who had not met Jesus, in another language, copied hundreds of times with many errors. It was decided some time later what would be included in the Bible by high ups in a church that many consider corrupt. I understand that it was likely only by flukes of happenstance (unless you believe in divine intervention I suppose) that Christianity was adopted as the religion of choice (ie Constantine). If I got some details here wrong forgive me. I am only just learning about the tenuous history of Christianity. So perhaps Jesus taught some amazing stuff but I will never really know. I am very reluctant to criticize beliefs that people hold so dear but I am also learning that there is a conspiracy of silence regarding religious matters and that concerns me. It is also worth remembering that christianity was orginally only a mid east religion and slowly spread to North Africa and Europe. There are other religions equally as large and equally as important in the eyes of their adherants. Particularly the religions of India and Asia.
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Post by maryhig on Nov 21, 2022 5:42:23 GMT -5
Can you tell me what you believe that Jesus taught that was wrong please? I don’t know if Jesus taught anything that was wrong. I’m unconvinced that we know for sure what Jesus taught or believed. We only have the Bible to tell us about Jesus. It was written years later, likely by people who had not met Jesus, in another language, copied hundreds of times with many errors. It was decided some time later what would be included in the Bible by high ups in a church that many consider corrupt. I understand that it was likely only by flukes of happenstance (unless you believe in divine intervention I suppose) that Christianity was adopted as the religion of choice (ie Constantine). If I got some details here wrong forgive me. I am only just learning about the tenuous history of Christianity. So perhaps Jesus taught some amazing stuff but I will never really know. I am very reluctant to criticize beliefs that people hold so dear but I am also learning that there is a conspiracy of silence regarding religious matters and that concerns me. I believe that Jesus absolutely taught what is written in the bible, and I believe that God has what he wants in the bible. I believe that churches have changed the teachings of Jesus and that many people follow what their church teaches and their ways and not the way of Jesus, look at the Catholic Church its nothing like the way Jesus taught. Jesus is the way, meaning his teachings and the way he lived are the way to follow. He taught us to turn from doing what's wrong in our lives, to doing what's right, to care and to love, showing mercy and compassion to one another, and to share with others when we see the need. He also lived by what he taught and he was also full of wisdom. He was absolutely sent from God and I've got no doubt whatsoever.
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Post by verna on Nov 21, 2022 12:06:33 GMT -5
I don’t know if Jesus taught anything that was wrong. I’m unconvinced that we know for sure what Jesus taught or believed. We only have the Bible to tell us about Jesus. It was written years later, likely by people who had not met Jesus, in another language, copied hundreds of times with many errors. It was decided some time later what would be included in the Bible by high ups in a church that many consider corrupt. I understand that it was likely only by flukes of happenstance (unless you believe in divine intervention I suppose) that Christianity was adopted as the religion of choice (ie Constantine). If I got some details here wrong forgive me. I am only just learning about the tenuous history of Christianity. So perhaps Jesus taught some amazing stuff but I will never really know. I am very reluctant to criticize beliefs that people hold so dear but I am also learning that there is a conspiracy of silence regarding religious matters and that concerns me. I believe that Jesus absolutely taught what is written in the bible, and I believe that God has what he wants in the bible. I believe that churches have changed the teachings of Jesus and that many people follow what their church teaches and their ways and not the way of Jesus, look at the Catholic Church its nothing like the way Jesus taught. Jesus is the way, meaning his teachings and the way he lived are the way to follow. He taught us to turn from doing what's wrong in our lives, to doing what's right, to care and to love, showing mercy and compassion to one another, and to share with others when we see the need. He also lived by what he taught and he was also full of wisdom. He was absolutely sent from God and I've got no doubt whatsoever. There is very little in my studies that leads me to that conclusion but I will continue my learning. I do hold a place in my heart for a Jesus that was an wise man who taught wise things. I suspect that he was addressing cultural of political issues of the day however, some of which remain relevant today. Others not. That’s my take at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 12:23:17 GMT -5
God is just and knows who means it or not... I don't give a hoot whether or not they 'mean it'. They already proved what they were like, broke all of your god's rules. Just because they decide in their last breath to use 'give their life to Jesus (which was over btw) they get to be in heaven while people who were good decent people all their lives, were compassionate and kind, helped people, get to go to hell and be tortured for eternity. Thankfully it's all a bunch of nonsense, but if it were actually true it proves just how monstrous that god is and how messed up his 'rule' truly is. The Thief on the cross is our best example so it can happen, the other thief on the cross is our best example of someone faking it...God is well aware of what is going on...We trust him and not ourselves to do justice...He's never wrong...
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Post by snow on Nov 21, 2022 14:32:56 GMT -5
Nathan, it's all a belief. The original point is that there are absolute truths. Like if you, Nathan, stop breathing you will die. The bible cannot be proved and quoting the bible to prove the bible is called circular. Test it out. Quit breathing, see how long you live. Then tell me it's not an absolute truth. Truth is something that has been proved. That's what it is by definition. It's true that when you quit breathing, you die physically for all you people who think you have a soul and 'live' after death. ** In Matthew 17 we read Peter, James and John saw Moses and Eijah appeared and talked to Jesus on the Mountain of transfiguratation for quite awhile. You said once dead is dead, right? Moses and Elijad died thousands of years ago. How do you explain that event? Where did they come from? And where did they go after they had visited with Jesus? By the way, God said I am the God of the Living Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... To me God said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are ALIVE and NOT dead. Do you think God lied to us for saying Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who died thousands of years ago are still alive today? Yes, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob physical bodies died but NOT their souls. We read in the book Rev. The souls of believers were under altar in heaven, they were conscious and asked God to avenge their enemies. God told them to rest and wait. He will revenge the deaths of their enemies on the earth. dead is dead. You can't tell me of anyone that has come back from the dead other than in your book. You can't prove something by using that same 'something' as proof. And once again you missed the point. The absolute truth is this. You will die in the physical sense of the word if you don't breath. Try sticking to the subject instead of bringing your spiritual beliefs into the conversation. They are no use to you in the 'real world' because it's absolutely true that you will physically die if you don't breathe.
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Post by snow on Nov 21, 2022 14:39:04 GMT -5
If a truth does not have to have proof then anything can be defined as 'truth. And, you confirmed that when you said that Jesus continued to live after he quit breathing. That is one of the most deluded things I have heard yet from theists. If you quit breathing you die Dan. That is absolute truth. What you believe about Jesus is not truth it's belief. It takes faith to believe in something that is categorically impossible in the world we live in and we have absolutely no proof that there is any other realm after death. That is belief based on faith, not proof or truth. Believing truth doesn't need proof is a dangerous mindset and it results in the Q crowd and other cults. A person can deduce something is true without objective evidence.. Many people have been convicted of crimes on the testimony of a witness or two, yet the gospel is rejected despite many witnesses.
God cannot be proven via conventional evidence because He is beyond our observations, measurements, tests, and methodology of substantiating a truth, so our objectivity can pretty much be thrown out a window. Even a miracle is not evidence, because 'objective' evidence requires our understanding, and since we can't explain a miracle, it can't past our test. That said, there is subjective evidence to support the bible. There is archeological, prophetic, historical, and recorded evidence witnessed by many people. It comes down to Christ, were his words true or false? If he lied, then he was not the Truth, but "No deceit was found in his mouth" (1 Peter 2:22).
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible". Yes, the Truth is accepted by faith, but faith is not based on nothing.
The only thing archeology and the bible tell us is this. These people believed in gods and then one primary god. It doesn't prove that the god they believed in actually existed. Therefore it's not an absolute truth. Absolute truth by it's very definition is something that has been proved. Witnesses in a trial are not absolute truths, they are just used to gather enough evidence that an informed decision can be made about a case. And, we've seen just how well it works with the amount of people that went to jail and weren't guilty. It's not absolute truth in these cases, it's 'reasonable doubt'. It can still be wrong. But you can't tell me that you won't physically die if you quit breathing long enough. Proof should always be required imo. Otherwise you can just believe whatever you want whether it's true or not.
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Post by snow on Nov 21, 2022 14:40:16 GMT -5
Nathan, it's all a belief. The original point is that there are absolute truths. Like if you, Nathan, stop breathing you will die. The bible cannot be proved and quoting the bible to prove the bible is called circular. Test it out. Quit breathing, see how long you live. Then tell me it's not an absolute truth. Truth is something that has been proved. That's what it is by definition. It's true that when you quit breathing, you die physically for all you people who think you have a soul and 'live' after death. I sometimes wonder why any of us bother explaining anything to Natie. He’s so wrapped up in his delusions that comprehension is beyond him. Wonderland is real, Natie. Well to use his words, 'while there is life there is hope'
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 21, 2022 14:47:08 GMT -5
** In Matthew 17 we read Peter, James and John saw Moses and Eijah appeared and talked to Jesus on the Mountain of transfiguratation for quite awhile. You said once dead is dead, right? Moses and Elijad died thousands of years ago. How do you explain that event? Where did they come from? And where did they go after they had visited with Jesus? By the way, God said I am the God of the Living Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... To me God said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are ALIVE and NOT dead. Do you think God lied to us for saying Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who died thousands of years ago are still alive today? Yes, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob physical bodies died but NOT their souls. We read in the book Rev. The souls of believers were under altar in heaven, they were conscious and asked God to avenge their enemies. God told them to rest and wait. He will revenge the deaths of their enemies on the earth. dead is dead. You can't tell me of anyone that has come back from the dead other than in your book. You can't prove something by using that same 'something' as proof. And once again you missed the point. The absolute truth is this. You will die in the physical sense of the word if you don't breath. Try sticking to the subject instead of bringing your spiritual beliefs into the conversation. They are no use to you in the 'real world' because it's absolutely true that you will physically die if you don't breathe. So, you don't believe in the Bible events of those who came back from the dead, I just posted? There was a disciple of Jesus name Lazarus who died and Jesus raised him for dead. There were young girls, young man who died Jesus and the apostle Peter raised them from the dead also. We read after Jesus died and he paid the ransom priced for the sins of all. We read the graves were opened and the dead in Christ came out of the graves. So, your belief dead is dead NOT correct at all. If they were dead then how were they able walking around visiting with people in towns. Snow, you must come up with better answers to make people to accept your belief once dead is dead.
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Post by Annan on Nov 21, 2022 14:51:00 GMT -5
dead is dead. You can't tell me of anyone that has come back from the dead other than in your book. You can't prove something by using that same 'something' as proof. And once again you missed the point. The absolute truth is this. You will die in the physical sense of the word if you don't breath. Try sticking to the subject instead of bringing your spiritual beliefs into the conversation. They are no use to you in the 'real world' because it's absolutely true that you will physically die if you don't breathe. So, you don't believe in the Bible events of those who came back from the dead, I just posted? There was a disciple of Jesus name Lazarus who died and Jesus raised him for dead. There were young girls, young man who died Jesus and the apostle Peter raised them from the dead also. We read after Jesus died and he paid the ransom priced for the sins of all. We read the graves were opened and the dead in Christ came out of the graves. So, your belief dead is dead NOT correct at all. Natie, Natie, Natie... Do you know what hearsay is? You can't prove the bible by quoting the bible. As has been pointed out to you, it's called circular reasoning. What don't you understand? I'm tied of defending you by saying it's your asian mind that can't comprehend. It's obvious you brain fell out your left ear. Seriously.
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Post by snow on Nov 21, 2022 14:52:33 GMT -5
I don't give a hoot whether or not they 'mean it'. They already proved what they were like, broke all of your god's rules. Just because they decide in their last breath to use 'give their life to Jesus (which was over btw) they get to be in heaven while people who were good decent people all their lives, were compassionate and kind, helped people, get to go to hell and be tortured for eternity. Thankfully it's all a bunch of nonsense, but if it were actually true it proves just how monstrous that god is and how messed up his 'rule' truly is. The Thief on the cross is our best example so it can happen, the other thief on the cross is our best example of someone faking it...God is well aware of what is going on...We trust him and not ourselves to do justice...He's never wrong... Then why do people here say that other people are 'hellbound'? Regardless, there is Christian doctrine that says that all you have to do to go to heaven is state that you give your life to Jesus and it's a ticket to heaven. I think that doctrine is horrific but I get why some branches of Christianity adopted it. It put more people behind their religion and therefore it brought in more money and created more power by those in top positions in the church. The process of confession and forgiveness is another one that is bogus imo. Go do whatever during the weak, confess on Sunday, do some hail Mary's and you're good to go for another week. When you're dying a priest comes in and gives you absolution (sacrament of reconciliation) and viola good to go no matter how you lived your life. If there is such a thing as god and heaven it should only be allowed to people that lived a decent life, not those who lived a horrible life, but are saved just because they were either 'once saved always saved' or 'gave their life to Jesus' at the end. Constantine is a good example of that last one. He didn't become a Christian until he was dying so he could live however he wanted to.
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Post by snow on Nov 21, 2022 14:55:45 GMT -5
dead is dead. You can't tell me of anyone that has come back from the dead other than in your book. You can't prove something by using that same 'something' as proof. And once again you missed the point. The absolute truth is this. You will die in the physical sense of the word if you don't breath. Try sticking to the subject instead of bringing your spiritual beliefs into the conversation. They are no use to you in the 'real world' because it's absolutely true that you will physically die if you don't breathe. So, you don't believe in the Bible events of those who came back from the dead, I just posted? There was a disciple of Jesus name Lazarus who died and Jesus raised him for dead. There were young girls, young man who died Jesus and the apostle Peter raised them from the dead also. We read after Jesus died and he paid the ransom priced for the sins of all. We read the graves were opened and the dead in Christ came out of the graves. So, your belief dead is dead NOT correct at all. If they were dead then how were they able walking around visiting with people in towns. No I don't believe anyone raised anyone from the dead and in the real world we don't see any evidence of anyone able to 'raise the dead'. We do have medical technology that can revive people before too much time passes and they become brain dead, but we don't see anyone being raised from the dead after they've been dead. It's a story in the bible that does not relate to real life reality. You shouldn't just believe something just because the bible says so. I know you do though. You don't require proof. I do.
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nathan2
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Nov 21, 2022 15:01:52 GMT -5
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 21, 2022 15:01:52 GMT -5
The Thief on the cross is our best example so it can happen, the other thief on the cross is our best example of someone faking it...God is well aware of what is going on...We trust him and not ourselves to do justice...He's never wrong... Then why do people here say that other people are 'hellbound'? Regardless, there is Christian doctrine that says that all you have to do to go to heaven is state that you give your life to Jesus and it's a ticket to heaven. I think that doctrine is horrific but I get why some branches of Christianity adopted it. It put more people behind their religion and therefore it brought in more money and created more power by those in top positions in the church. The process of confession and forgiveness is another one that is bogus imo. Go do whatever during the weak, confess on Sunday, do some hail Mary's and you're good to go for another week. When you're dying a priest comes in and gives you absolution (sacrament of reconciliation) and viola good to go no matter how you lived your life. If there is such a thing as god and heaven it should only be allowed to people that lived a decent life, not those who lived a horrible life, but are saved just because they were either 'once saved always saved' or 'gave their life to Jesus' at the end. Constantine is a good example of that last one. He didn't become a Christian until he was dying so he could live however he wanted to. *** Like Wally wrote God KNOWS the condition and the motives of our hearts to serve Him or NOT. Emperor Constantine could fool people BUT not God. God knew Constantine was a true believer or NOT after he died.
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nathan2
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Nov 21, 2022 15:07:14 GMT -5
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 21, 2022 15:07:14 GMT -5
So, you don't believe in the Bible events of those who came back from the dead, I just posted? There was a disciple of Jesus name Lazarus who died and Jesus raised him for dead. There were young girls, young man who died Jesus and the apostle Peter raised them from the dead also. We read after Jesus died and he paid the ransom priced for the sins of all. We read the graves were opened and the dead in Christ came out of the graves. So, your belief dead is dead NOT correct at all. If they were dead then how were they able walking around visiting with people in towns. No I don't believe anyone raised anyone from the dead and in the real world we don't see any evidence of anyone able to 'raise the dead'. We do have medical technology that can revive people before too much time passes and they become brain dead, but we don't see anyone being raised from the dead after they've been dead. It's a story in the bible that does not relate to real life reality. You shouldn't just believe something just because the bible says so. I know you do though. You don't require proof. I do. *** The Old and New Testament believers are waiting to recrice the Resurrection bodies like the One Jesus had received AFTER God raised him the dead. If it wasn't for Jesus own Resrrection then the believers will admit once dead is dead for sure. Well, Jesus Christ didn't stay dead so the believers Christ will raise up from the dead when He returns to establish His Eternal kingdom on earth for 1000 years.
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Post by verna on Nov 21, 2022 15:19:56 GMT -5
** In Matthew 17 we read Peter, James and John saw Moses and Eijah appeared and talked to Jesus on the Mountain of transfiguratation for quite awhile. You said once dead is dead, right? Moses and Elijad died thousands of years ago. How do you explain that event? Where did they come from? And where did they go after they had visited with Jesus? By the way, God said I am the God of the Living Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... To me God said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are ALIVE and NOT dead. Do you think God lied to us for saying Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who died thousands of years ago are still alive today? Yes, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob physical bodies died but NOT their souls. We read in the book Rev. The souls of believers were under altar in heaven, they were conscious and asked God to avenge their enemies. God told them to rest and wait. He will revenge the deaths of their enemies on the earth. dead is dead. You can't tell me of anyone that has come back from the dead other than in your book. You can't prove something by using that same 'something' as proof. And once again you missed the point. The absolute truth is this. You will die in the physical sense of the word if you don't breath. Try sticking to the subject instead of bringing your spiritual beliefs into the conversation. They are no use to you in the 'real world' because it's absolutely true that you will physically die if you don't breathe. Ok I get some mental images springing to mind when I read “The souls of believers were under the altar in heaven”. I just keep thinking of commenting to someone- oh ya - I keep all my loved ones under my front doorstep. Pretty random I gotta say.
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nathan2
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Nov 21, 2022 16:16:57 GMT -5
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Post by nathan2 on Nov 21, 2022 16:16:57 GMT -5
dead is dead. You can't tell me of anyone that has come back from the dead other than in your book. You can't prove something by using that same 'something' as proof. And once again you missed the point. The absolute truth is this. You will die in the physical sense of the word if you don't breath. Try sticking to the subject instead of bringing your spiritual beliefs into the conversation. They are no use to you in the 'real world' because it's absolutely true that you will physically die if you don't breathe. Ok I get some mental images springing to mind when I read “The souls of believers were under the altar in heaven”. I just keep thinking of commenting to someone- oh ya - I keep all my loved ones under my front doorstep. Pretty random I gotta say. *** Under the altar means a safe, peaceful place where they can rest their souls because they had endured horrible persecution from the Romans emperors. The believers were fed to the lions, the bodies light up as burning torches at nights, many of them had suffered very cruel death of being crucified on the Cross.
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Nov 21, 2022 16:29:02 GMT -5
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Post by verna on Nov 21, 2022 16:29:02 GMT -5
Ok I get some mental images springing to mind when I read “The souls of believers were under the altar in heaven”. I just keep thinking of commenting to someone- oh ya - I keep all my loved ones under my front doorstep. Pretty random I gotta say. *** Under the altar means a safe, peaceful place where they can rest their souls because they had endured horrible persecution from the Romans emperors. The believers were fed to the lions, the bodies light up as burning torches at nights, many of them had suffered very cruel death of being crucified on the Cross. Admittedly it would be preferable to being on the altar.
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