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Post by snow on Sept 24, 2022 13:47:17 GMT -5
Some of these exes seem bitter for no good reason.. If you don't like a church, just leave.. I don't understand the excessive whining about it being too strict, too controlling, too restrictive, etc. Most of them weren't abused, and that last one seemed like she had some preexisting mental problems? She calls it a cult but can hardly remember much about it? If a church is not your cup of tea, just move on. Why be a crybaby about it 10 years after leaving? They aren't content to just move on after the fact, but seem compelled to disparage it. I understand the complaints, but portraying themselves as victims seems more like a 'poor me' cry for attention.. jmo While I understand what you're saying, with the 2x2's it's a bit different. I did just exactly what you say people should do. I left as soon as I was able to when I left home and never gave any more thought to it really. No exit letter etc. I am still friends with some of the friends that still want to be friends with me. I supported my parents with their beliefs and just made it clear that it wasn't for me. However, it's not that simple for people leaving the 2x2 community. There are a few things that make it different and therefore more difficult to leave. For anyone born into the group you are told from day one that this organization is the only true way. No other branch of Christianity is valid and if you leave the group you will go to hell. When I quit professing at 12 I was told that over and over and being young and having grown up in the meetings that told me that all the time, I believed them. For awhile. As I got older I realized it for what it was. Manipulation and trying to guilt me to return. They would say 'look what you are doing to your parents'. They knew I was adopted so they used that against me too. 'They took you in and you repay them by leaving'. The friends didn't want me around their kids without adults. My parents for the first year after I quit professing, but always having to attend all the meetings etc., I wasn't allowed to have any 'worldly' friends. That 1st year was incredibly lonely for me because of the shunning (friends parents not wanting their kids to associate with me). I was shy and not a bad kid. So it was hard. Once I was finally allowed to have friends from school my life improved. So knowing what I went through I can totally understand why it's so hard for people to leave the church. It's the only friends they have had. It's their community and for most their entire family is in it. For some leaving meant no longer having family talking to you and even if they did talk to you there was a definite divide. You were an outsider. If you still believed in the Christian God you had to deal with the stuff you'd been taught all your life and that was if you left the only true way you were going to hell. So leaving isn't as simple as you like to make it sound. It's not like being a Baptist and changing to the United Church. The longer they remained in the group the harder that would become to leave. So I understand the damage done to the psyche of these people. Did they need to talk about it like these people have? Probably not. But if it gives them some kind of closure then I see no reason why they shouldn't talk about it. The workers like to fly under the religious world's radar. One reason why they don't have a name, church buildings etc. So I don't have a problem with them being exposed to the world. The only reason why they don't want people talking like these people did is because they get exposed and that exposure doesn't look all that good. And they know that. Bottom line. It's not that simple as just leave if you don't like it. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Sept 24, 2022 13:59:34 GMT -5
When people wake up to the con job that the truth is they very often get labelled as bitter.
What is bitter about telling the truth to those who need to resort to restrictive practices and lies to retain their cult following?
Once I had the scales lifted from my eyes and realized what a farce "The Truth' is, I felt great joy and happiness.
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Post by Grant on Sept 24, 2022 14:28:02 GMT -5
Some of these exes seem bitter for no good reason.. If you don't like a church, just leave.. I don't understand the excessive whining about it being too strict, too controlling, too restrictive, etc. Most of them weren't abused, and that last one seemed like she had some preexisting mental problems? She calls it a cult but can hardly remember much about it? If a church is not your cup of tea, just move on. Why be a crybaby about it 10 years after leaving? They aren't content to just move on after the fact, but seem compelled to disparage it. I understand the complaints, but portraying themselves as victims seems more like a 'poor me' cry for attention.. jmo I wonder if you were born and raised in the group? Are all or most of your close family in it? Did it shape your life as a kid growing up with you believing this is the only true church and if you left you were going to hell? Were you cut off emotuonally from those outside the church? Just some questions for you to ponder as you seem out of touch to the real issues and impact that growing up in a group such as this can have on a person's life. It's not wrong to share one's experience. It helps others heal and not feel alone. An important process for all. Of course the workers would like people to leave quietly. Nothing wrong with people sharing their experience. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 24, 2022 15:40:23 GMT -5
On their request, I sent one of my relatives a copy of Cherie's, 'Preserving the Truth'. They finished it and wrote, "Thanks for sharing good history of the truth". Now on one hand, 'the truth' can simply refer to a faith community. On the other, and as my relative would continue to insist, the language implies the workers are uniquely arbitrating salvation for mankind. I just replied, thanks for returning the book, and sent a video revealing the 911 lie. Oh shoot you just undid the good you had done. ’The one true way from the beginning’ wasn’t the first and last narrative to have been capitalized upon. As far as 911 “truth” goes, I’m increasingly skeptical of the official version. With technology, every lying sign and sorcery has become possible. |
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Post by verna on Sept 24, 2022 15:47:30 GMT -5
Oh shoot you just undid the good you had done. ’The one true way from the beginning’ wasn’t the first and last narrative to have been capitalized upon. As far as 911 “truth” goes, I’m increasingly skeptical of the official version. With technology, every lying sign and sorcery has become possible. Alex Jones also “believed” Sandy Hook didn’t happen. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 24, 2022 16:16:26 GMT -5
What we’re willing to believe will be defining, of who we are. And then you have to unpack that. Some believe lies more innocently than others. Some, with more complicity, treachery, and intention.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 24, 2022 16:44:42 GMT -5
Some of these exes seem bitter for no good reason.. If you don't like a church, just leave.. I don't understand the excessive whining about it being too strict, too controlling, too restrictive, etc. Most of them weren't abused, and that last one seemed like she had some preexisting mental problems? She calls it a cult but can hardly remember much about it? If a church is not your cup of tea, just move on. Why be a crybaby about it 10 years after leaving? They aren't content to just move on after the fact, but seem compelled to disparage it. I understand the complaints, but portraying themselves as victims seems more like a 'poor me' cry for attention.. jmo I wonder if you were born and raised in the group? Are all or most of your close family in it? Did it shape your life as a kid growing up with you believing this is the only true church and if you left you were going to hell? Were you cut off emotuonally from those outside the church? Just some questions for you to ponder as you seem out of touch to the real issues and impact that growing up in a group such as this can have on a person's life. It's not wrong to share one's experience. It helps others heal and not feel alone. An important process for all. Of course the workers would like people to leave quietly. Nothing wrong with people sharing their experience. You have to remember that Lee was born and raised in a political environment that has infected much of American 2x2-ism. He thinks he's mainstream. |
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Post by verna on Sept 24, 2022 16:54:42 GMT -5
I wonder if you were born and raised in the group? Are all or most of your close family in it? Did it shape your life as a kid growing up with you believing this is the only true church and if you left you were going to hell? Were you cut off emotuonally from those outside the church? Just some questions for you to ponder as you seem out of touch to the real issues and impact that growing up in a group such as this can have on a person's life. It's not wrong to share one's experience. It helps others heal and not feel alone. An important process for all. Of course the workers would like people to leave quietly. Nothing wrong with people sharing their experience. You have to remember that Lee was born and raised in a political environment that has infected much of American 2x2-ism. He thinks he's mainstream. I’m wondering if you are confusing Dan and Lee. The post was from Dan. |
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 24, 2022 16:59:21 GMT -5
You have to remember that Lee was born and raised in a political environment that has infected much of American 2x2-ism. He thinks he's mainstream. I’m wondering if you are confusing Dan and Lee. The post was from Dan. Yeah -- I was thinking about Lee. Dan is different.  |
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Post by Lee on Sept 24, 2022 17:06:53 GMT -5
The epistemological crisis of our world has only begun.
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Post by chuck on Sept 24, 2022 19:36:36 GMT -5
The epistemological crisis of our world has only begun. How do you figure that?. |
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Post by openingact34 on Sept 24, 2022 21:01:48 GMT -5
Listening to some of these podcasts something came up that made me wonder something. Did everyone that grew up in the F&W's at some point in their life believe that they had a calling to go into the work? I know I considered it and it sounds like a few of these podcasters also thought they did at some point in their life before they left. So I'd be interested in knowing how many of us went through that phase? I don't think it is surprising at all. Just look at how many people go to a "90 minute sales presentation" as part of a deeply discounted vacation and end up walking away with a timeshare that they can't afford and won't use. The Truth is obsessed with recruiting new workers and the amount of time they have to work on the captive audience of children is immense. Just one convention is 22+ hours of brainwashing in half a week, plus all the grooming outside of meeting. We would often go to 5 meetings a week during the rest of the year, and if we misbehaved our parents would punish us by taking us to even more meetings. We would drive to adjacent fields and across state lines to go to all kinds of gospel meetings One thing I noticed in these interviews was how many times they mentioned being unable to research the cult or talk about it for 10+ years after leaving. It was exactly the same thing even for someone super wicked and unwilling like me. I remember now how many times the workers preached about not looking on the internet, burning books and letters that exes would send, and how reading the "Black Book" (Secret Sect I guess) would result in you losing out and burning in hell. For over 10 years the programming was so strong in my mind that it never even occurred to me to search online for the crazy cult that I grew up in. Just on autopilot all alone trying to survive. So many other things we deeply programmed and I didn't do for over a decade like going to a movie theater, bowling, trying alcohol. And so many more are still messing me up. |
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Post by Dan on Sept 25, 2022 0:51:09 GMT -5
Some of these exes seem bitter for no good reason.. If you don't like a church, just leave.. I don't understand the excessive whining about it being too strict, too controlling, too restrictive, etc. Most of them weren't abused, and that last one seemed like she had some preexisting mental problems? She calls it a cult but can hardly remember much about it? If a church is not your cup of tea, just move on. Why be a crybaby about it 10 years after leaving? They aren't content to just move on after the fact, but seem compelled to disparage it. I understand the complaints, but portraying themselves as victims seems more like a 'poor me' cry for attention.. jmo Dan obviously you did not experience the indoctrination I did. Lucky for you. When you are raised in an atmosphere of inescapable fear and perhaps if you are of a particular temperament, it sticks. It messes with your thinking. You don’t just walk away. While I understand what you're saying, with the 2x2's it's a bit different. I did just exactly what you say people should do. I left as soon as I was able to when I left home and never gave any more thought to it really. No exit letter etc. I am still friends with some of the friends that still want to be friends with me. I supported my parents with their beliefs and just made it clear that it wasn't for me. However, it's not that simple for people leaving the 2x2 community. There are a few things that make it different and therefore more difficult to leave. For anyone born into the group you are told from day one that this organization is the only true way. No other branch of Christianity is valid and if you leave the group you will go to hell. When I quit professing at 12 I was told that over and over and being young and having grown up in the meetings that told me that all the time, I believed them. For awhile. As I got older I realized it for what it was. Manipulation and trying to guilt me to return. They would say 'look what you are doing to your parents'. They knew I was adopted so they used that against me too. 'They took you in and you repay them by leaving'. The friends didn't want me around their kids without adults. My parents for the first year after I quit professing, but always having to attend all the meetings etc., I wasn't allowed to have any 'worldly' friends. That 1st year was incredibly lonely for me because of the shunning (friends parents not wanting their kids to associate with me). I was shy and not a bad kid. So it was hard. Once I was finally allowed to have friends from school my life improved. So knowing what I went through I can totally understand why it's so hard for people to leave the church. It's the only friends they have had. It's their community and for most their entire family is in it. For some leaving meant no longer having family talking to you and even if they did talk to you there was a definite divide. You were an outsider. If you still believed in the Christian God you had to deal with the stuff you'd been taught all your life and that was if you left the only true way you were going to hell. So leaving isn't as simple as you like to make it sound. It's not like being a Baptist and changing to the United Church. The longer they remained in the group the harder that would become to leave. So I understand the damage done to the psyche of these people. Did they need to talk about it like these people have? Probably not. But if it gives them some kind of closure then I see no reason why they shouldn't talk about it. The workers like to fly under the religious world's radar. One reason why they don't have a name, church buildings etc. So I don't have a problem with them being exposed to the world. The only reason why they don't want people talking like these people did is because they get exposed and that exposure doesn't look all that good. And they know that. Bottom line. It's not that simple as just leave if you don't like it. I wonder if you were born and raised in the group? Are all or most of your close family in it? Did it shape your life as a kid growing up with you believing this is the only true church and if you left you were going to hell? Were you cut off emotuonally from those outside the church? Just some questions for you to ponder as you seem out of touch to the real issues and impact that growing up in a group such as this can have on a person's life. It's not wrong to share one's experience. It helps others heal and not feel alone. An important process for all. Of course the workers would like people to leave quietly. Nothing wrong with people sharing their experience.
No, I wasn't born and raised in the Truth. Got in at 14 years old, professed in the Fall and was baptized the following Summer at 15 years old. I gradually left at 19 and was more less completely out at 21. Perhaps that's why 'just leaving' wasn't so difficult. I had no resentment, didn't feel brainwashed, and no one said I'd go to hell. I never felt fear or indoctrinated either. I suppose that since I was not bitter, it wasn't as difficult for me to just walk away, unlike others who wrestled with their decision and experienced an emotional toll. Of course there was some disappointment expressed about my decision and a little pressure to return to meetings, but nothing that caused me anxiety or stressed me out.
I still like the friends and respect their choice. Most are comfortable in the group and believe they are in the only right Way, so I've never felt a need to throw darts at them or complain? To the contrary, I respect the conviction of the Workers and believe there's a lot of good people in the Truth. Of course there's a couple of rotten eggs in every church, but its wrong to condemn them all because of a few bad apples (stumbling blocks).
I'd still feel comfortable going to a gospel mtg or Sunday morning mtg. I guess that's why I don't understand what ex-friends are afraid of? It was never a prison or cult to me, everyone's free to come or go as they please. I still profess Christ, and most people who leave the Truth have rejected him, becoming atheist or agnostic.. That's a sad and tragic mistake.
I don't feel its a mistake for exes to share their experience or opinions, but some paint a pretty ugly picture and seem bitter, angry, and hurt by something that they freely chose to be a part of and freely chose to leave.
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Post by Grant on Sept 25, 2022 2:11:36 GMT -5
You did not experience what those who were born and raised in the group did. If you did you would know what others were talking about when relating the effects the group had in them.
It was not something they they choose to be part of or can they freely choose to leave. They never knew anything else, they were brainwashed from birth and it's very hard for many to leave, their lives, family, friends and future were in the group. By leaving they are walking out on all they've ever know. Yiu found it easy to walk into and walk out of. That is not the case with many born and raised.
Seems you may not have many if any family in it unlike others whose whole family are in. You belonged to a church, similar to the 2x2s if I remember which meets in homes. You left that group and went back to it. You had somewhere to go back to, unlike born and raised exes who go out into the unknown.
Do you wonder why people have become unbelievers after what they experienced. However most who have become Christians are not on this board, they have their own exes boards and Facebook groups.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 25, 2022 2:28:04 GMT -5
by something that they freely chose to be a part of and freely chose to leave. [/font] [/div]
[/quote] The point you missed was that it really wasn't that freely chosen to be a part of and freely chosen to leave. Freely choosing it was something like "freely choosing to be born in the USA", and freely choosing to leave was something like "freely leaving your professorship at Mariupol State University". |
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Post by Dan on Sept 25, 2022 3:06:03 GMT -5
You did not experience what those who were born and raised in the group did. If you did you would know what others were talking about when relating the effects the group had in them. It was not something they they choose to be part of or can they freely choose to leave. They never knew anything else, they were brainwashed from birth and it's very hard for many to leave, their lives, family, friends and future were in the group. By leaving they are walking out on all they've ever know. Yiu found it easy to walk into and walk out of. That is not the case with many born and raised. Seems you may not have many if any family in it unlike others whose whole family are in. You belonged to a church, similar to the 2x2s if I remember which meets in homes. You left that group and went back to it. You had somewhere to go back to, unlike born and raised exes who go out into the unknown. Do you wonder why people have become unbelievers after what they experienced. However most who have become Christians are not on this board, they have their own exes boards and Facebook groups.
True, I may have had previous experience with the outside world, TV, sports, etc.. But I was committed, entrenched, and convince that I was in the only right church for awhile. My parents had Sunday mtg in their home, two of my sisters went into the work, one for 15 years and the other is still a Worker.
No, I don't belong to a similar church now, I don't go to church at all. I left the Way because I thought they were too strict about superficial things like dress codes, and later their opposition to a Triune God.. I do understand why others complain about the awkwardness and exclusive life style, but branding it as some kind of torture chamber that ruined their lives just seems excessive. I get the feeling that some of the podcast folks would be miserable habitual complainers even if they had never been in the church?
I'm sure there is more pressure on a person born in the Truth, they may have professed to the only thing that they were ever exposed to (preconditioned). Maybe they now feel like they missed out on a more normal childhood and had no choice? Maybe they felt controlled or forced to accept something that they never really had any real spiritual connection with? But I still can't grasp their need to publicly denounce a quaint little church by continuing to harp and fuss over something they left years ago? I'm not talking about victims of CSA of course, that's a serious problem that needs to be brought to light.
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Post by Dan on Sept 25, 2022 3:23:13 GMT -5
Yes, I get that now... There's nothing free about something your born into. But even if your born in the USA, your free to love it or leave it. I reckon you can't do that until your an adult though, and all the podcast complaints are about being denied a worldly childhood. Feelings of guilt and separation also enter the picture of course. I didn't experience that, but I can relate to some of it, even though the anger seems excessive. I don't attribute it to psychological abuse, just people who didn't appreciate the type of life that they were born into.
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Post by help on Sept 25, 2022 3:35:44 GMT -5
Many ex's do not publicly denounce a quaint little Church. They still have a vested interest, because of Family and friends that still belong. They show respect because of that. We always kept in touch, we always made them welcome and enquired about those we knew. Workers were always asked to stay for a meal, many of them did. Not so much now, because all our acquaintances have passed on. We still have the younger generation 2x2's visit, freely talk about Conventions, Special Meetings, etc. We just make it know that it was not for us, but glad that it set a good foundation for our lives.
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Post by verna on Sept 25, 2022 8:15:48 GMT -5
Listening to some of these podcasts something came up that made me wonder something. Did everyone that grew up in the F&W's at some point in their life believe that they had a calling to go into the work? I know I considered it and it sounds like a few of these podcasters also thought they did at some point in their life before they left. So I'd be interested in knowing how many of us went through that phase? I don't think it is surprising at all. Just look at how many people go to a "90 minute sales presentation" as part of a deeply discounted vacation and end up walking away with a timeshare that they can't afford and won't use. The Truth is obsessed with recruiting new workers and the amount of time they have to work on the captive audience of children is immense. Just one convention is 22+ hours of brainwashing in half a week, plus all the grooming outside of meeting. We would often go to 5 meetings a week during the rest of the year, and if we misbehaved our parents would punish us by taking us to even more meetings. We would drive to adjacent fields and across state lines to go to all kinds of gospel meetings One thing I noticed in these interviews was how many times they mentioned being unable to research the cult or talk about it for 10+ years after leaving. It was exactly the same thing even for someone super wicked and unwilling like me. I remember now how many times the workers preached about not looking on the internet, burning books and letters that exes would send, and how reading the "Black Book" (Secret Sect I guess) would result in you losing out and burning in hell. For over 10 years the programming was so strong in my mind that it never even occurred to me to search online for the crazy cult that I grew up in. Just on autopilot all alone trying to survive. So many other things we deeply programmed and I didn't do for over a decade like going to a movie theater, bowling, trying alcohol. And so many more are still messing me up. Openingact I feel for you and I am happy to hear you talk about your pain. People will try to shut you down. But please, speak!!! It is difficult to understand. Forty some odd years later and I still struggle and don’t really get why it f’d me up so badly. But it did. But we can still have good lives I think? I’ve been having images of a dog when it emerges from a lake. The way it shakes itself so vigorously and the water flies everywhere and the dog is so happy. Mission accomplished. I think that is a good metaphor. What do you think? |
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Post by verna on Sept 25, 2022 8:24:24 GMT -5
Dan obviously you did not experience the indoctrination I did. Lucky for you. When you are raised in an atmosphere of inescapable fear and perhaps if you are of a particular temperament, it sticks. It messes with your thinking. You don’t just walk away. While I understand what you're saying, with the 2x2's it's a bit different. I did just exactly what you say people should do. I left as soon as I was able to when I left home and never gave any more thought to it really. No exit letter etc. I am still friends with some of the friends that still want to be friends with me. I supported my parents with their beliefs and just made it clear that it wasn't for me. However, it's not that simple for people leaving the 2x2 community. There are a few things that make it different and therefore more difficult to leave. For anyone born into the group you are told from day one that this organization is the only true way. No other branch of Christianity is valid and if you leave the group you will go to hell. When I quit professing at 12 I was told that over and over and being young and having grown up in the meetings that told me that all the time, I believed them. For awhile. As I got older I realized it for what it was. Manipulation and trying to guilt me to return. They would say 'look what you are doing to your parents'. They knew I was adopted so they used that against me too. 'They took you in and you repay them by leaving'. The friends didn't want me around their kids without adults. My parents for the first year after I quit professing, but always having to attend all the meetings etc., I wasn't allowed to have any 'worldly' friends. That 1st year was incredibly lonely for me because of the shunning (friends parents not wanting their kids to associate with me). I was shy and not a bad kid. So it was hard. Once I was finally allowed to have friends from school my life improved. So knowing what I went through I can totally understand why it's so hard for people to leave the church. It's the only friends they have had. It's their community and for most their entire family is in it. For some leaving meant no longer having family talking to you and even if they did talk to you there was a definite divide. You were an outsider. If you still believed in the Christian God you had to deal with the stuff you'd been taught all your life and that was if you left the only true way you were going to hell. So leaving isn't as simple as you like to make it sound. It's not like being a Baptist and changing to the United Church. The longer they remained in the group the harder that would become to leave. So I understand the damage done to the psyche of these people. Did they need to talk about it like these people have? Probably not. But if it gives them some kind of closure then I see no reason why they shouldn't talk about it. The workers like to fly under the religious world's radar. One reason why they don't have a name, church buildings etc. So I don't have a problem with them being exposed to the world. The only reason why they don't want people talking like these people did is because they get exposed and that exposure doesn't look all that good. And they know that. Bottom line. It's not that simple as just leave if you don't like it. I wonder if you were born and raised in the group? Are all or most of your close family in it? Did it shape your life as a kid growing up with you believing this is the only true church and if you left you were going to hell? Were you cut off emotuonally from those outside the church? Just some questions for you to ponder as you seem out of touch to the real issues and impact that growing up in a group such as this can have on a person's life. It's not wrong to share one's experience. It helps others heal and not feel alone. An important process for all. Of course the workers would like people to leave quietly. Nothing wrong with people sharing their experience.
No, I wasn't born and raised in the Truth. Got in at 14 years old, professed in the Fall and was baptized the following Summer at 15 years old. I gradually left at 19 and was more less completely out at 21. Perhaps that's why 'just leaving' wasn't so difficult. I had no resentment, didn't feel brainwashed, and no one said I'd go to hell. I never felt fear or indoctrinated either. I suppose that since I was not bitter, it wasn't as difficult for me to just walk away, unlike others who wrestled with their decision and experienced an emotional toll. Of course there was some disappointment expressed about my decision and a little pressure to return to meetings, but nothing that caused me anxiety or stressed me out.
I still like the friends and respect their choice. Most are comfortable in the group and believe they are in the only right Way, so I've never felt a need to throw darts at them or complain? To the contrary, I respect the conviction of the Workers and believe there's a lot of good people in the Truth. Of course there's a couple of rotten eggs in every church, but its wrong to condemn them all because of a few bad apples (stumbling blocks).
I'd still feel comfortable going to a gospel mtg or Sunday morning mtg. I guess that's why I don't understand what ex-friends are afraid of? It was never a prison or cult to me, everyone's free to come or go as they please. I still profess Christ, and most people who leave the Truth have rejected him, becoming atheist or agnostic.. That's a sad and tragic mistake.
I don't feel its a mistake for exes to share their experience or opinions, but some paint a pretty ugly picture and seem bitter, angry, and hurt by something that they freely chose to be a part of and freely chose to leave.
Dan I have told you about my experiences as an adolescent 2x2 - what happened in my mind. I had to stop talking about it because it made people too uncomfortable. We are all of different temperaments, all have different vulnerabilities and there are always different co-occurring events. Some individual manage being born and raised fine - some don’t. So some were hurt by it in ways we cannot understand. Heck I can’t even understand why it affected me do adversely. It is our opportunity to listen if we care to understand. |
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Post by intelchips on Sept 25, 2022 8:58:52 GMT -5
No, I wasn't born and raised in the Truth. Got in at 14 years old, professed in the Fall and was baptized the following Summer at 15 years old. I gradually left at 19 and was more less completely out at 21. Perhaps that's why 'just leaving' wasn't so difficult. I had no resentment, didn't feel brainwashed, and no one said I'd go to hell. I never felt fear or indoctrinated either. I suppose that since I was not bitter, it wasn't as difficult for me to just walk away, unlike others who wrestled with their decision and experienced an emotional toll. Of course there was some disappointment expressed about my decision and a little pressure to return to meetings, but nothing that caused me anxiety or stressed me out.
I still like the friends and respect their choice. Most are comfortable in the group and believe they are in the only right Way, so I've never felt a need to throw darts at them or complain? To the contrary, I respect the conviction of the Workers and believe there's a lot of good people in the Truth. Of course there's a couple of rotten eggs in every church, but its wrong to condemn them all because of a few bad apples (stumbling blocks).
I'd still feel comfortable going to a gospel mtg or Sunday morning mtg. I guess that's why I don't understand what ex-friends are afraid of? It was never a prison or cult to me, everyone's free to come or go as they please. I still profess Christ, and most people who leave the Truth have rejected him, becoming atheist or agnostic.. That's a sad and tragic mistake.
I don't feel its a mistake for exes to share their experience or opinions, but some paint a pretty ugly picture and seem bitter, angry, and hurt by something that they freely chose to be a part of and freely chose to leave.
Dan I have told you about my experiences as an adolescent 2x2 - what happened in my mind. I had to stop talking about it because it made people too uncomfortable. We are all of different temperaments, all have different vulnerabilities and there are always different co-occurring events. Some individual manage being born and raised fine - some don’t. So some were hurt by it in ways we cannot understand. Heck I can’t even understand why it affected me do adversely. It is our opportunity to listen if we care to understand. Perhaps this pod cast from the past might help:  |
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Post by Lee on Sept 25, 2022 9:42:05 GMT -5
I wonder if you were born and raised in the group? Are all or most of your close family in it? Did it shape your life as a kid growing up with you believing this is the only true church and if you left you were going to hell? Were you cut off emotuonally from those outside the church? Just some questions for you to ponder as you seem out of touch to the real issues and impact that growing up in a group such as this can have on a person's life. It's not wrong to share one's experience. It helps others heal and not feel alone. An important process for all. Of course the workers would like people to leave quietly. Nothing wrong with people sharing their experience. You have to remember that Lee was born and raised in a political environment that has infected much of American 2x2-ism. He thinks he's mainstream. Politics, like all things secular are a sideshow in 2x2ism. They’re above it all. Reagan was popular when I was growing up. Trump is like him but more like Buchanan. How are these “infecting” 2x2ism or the political theatre generally. Do you believe America was from God or man? Being ecclesiastically barricaded from the world, the workers think it’s of man. To say it’s “infected” is an acknowledgement of a deep state, that it’s not an organic process. |
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Post by Lee on Sept 25, 2022 9:47:31 GMT -5
The epistemological crisis of our world has only begun. How do you figure that?. Hyper emphasis of physical state over the spiritual state. General diminishing of critical thinking abilities, increasing level of meaningless distractions. Ontological abyss of western media and corporate culture. Today they don’t know the difference between men and women. I think the divide and dissonance between so called mainstream media and alternative media will continue. Also, the deep state will wear out the word “conspiracy”, in its effort to conceal its existence and influence. It will pivot increasingly to an open plot and government. People who have avoided critical thinking and awareness of the prevalence of dis and misinformation as a political and personal tool for power and gain, will find the reality threatening. |
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Post by verna on Sept 25, 2022 10:21:55 GMT -5
You have to remember that Lee was born and raised in a political environment that has infected much of American 2x2-ism. He thinks he's mainstream. Politics, like all things secular are a sideshow in 2x2ism. They’re above it all. Reagan was popular when I was growing up. Trump is like him but more like Buchanan. How are these “infecting” 2x2ism or the political theatre generally. Do you believe America was from God or man? Being ecclesiastically barricaded from the world, the workers think it’s of man. To say it’s “infected” is an acknowledgement of a deep state, that it’s not an organic process. I’m confused by your question (among other things) “is America from God or man?” Do you mean the land or the people or it’s constitution or it’s politics? You think America is from God I assume? Please explain. I don’t get it. Is America God’s chosen country or something? |
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Post by intelchips on Sept 25, 2022 11:58:25 GMT -5
Politics, like all things secular are a sideshow in 2x2ism. They’re above it all. Reagan was popular when I was growing up. Trump is like him but more like Buchanan. How are these “infecting” 2x2ism or the political theatre generally. Do you believe America was from God or man? Being ecclesiastically barricaded from the world, the workers think it’s of man. To say it’s “infected” is an acknowledgement of a deep state, that it’s not an organic process. I’m confused by your question (among other things) “is America from God or man?” Do you mean the land or the people or it’s constitution or it’s politics? You think America is from God I assume? Please explain. I don’t get it. Is America God’s chosen country or something? I'm fairly confident that Lee is wrong because while it was widely believed that America first became a human habitat when people migrated across the Bering Sea 40,000 to 17,000 years ago, recent discoveries may have pushed those estimates back at least another 90,000 years. Because God has only been around for the last 6,000 years Americans are much older than that. |
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Post by Dan on Sept 25, 2022 12:13:31 GMT -5
I still don't see how the church could hurt someone? Maybe it consumed you and when you quit, you became an aimless empty vessel. You then wandered into things that were the polar opposite. If you can't understand how the Truth hurt you or why your convinced that it affected you so adversely, perhaps a closer inward examination would reveal that it was never the church in the first place? I'm just speculating of course, but I suspect you may have blamed any church that you might have been affiliated with for every negative thought? Why would a friendly and loving fellowship make you unhappy? Maybe you became overwhelmed because you put too much pressure on yourself and never felt good enough? I don't have the answers, but your overt reaction in assigning blame for all your past anguish seems misdirected.
People don't like it and leave for various reasons, but why harbor hostility towards something they're no longer involved with? Many people grew-up with alcoholic parents, suffered physical abuse, were unloved, mistreated, etc. So listening to the whiners crying in their beers because they had to wear a long skirt, couldn't watch TV, or go bowling, just seems trivial in comparison to people who've actually experienced genuine hardships.. jmo
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Post by snow on Sept 25, 2022 12:38:32 GMT -5
Listening to some of these podcasts something came up that made me wonder something. Did everyone that grew up in the F&W's at some point in their life believe that they had a calling to go into the work? I know I considered it and it sounds like a few of these podcasters also thought they did at some point in their life before they left. So I'd be interested in knowing how many of us went through that phase? I don't think it is surprising at all. Just look at how many people go to a "90 minute sales presentation" as part of a deeply discounted vacation and end up walking away with a timeshare that they can't afford and won't use. The Truth is obsessed with recruiting new workers and the amount of time they have to work on the captive audience of children is immense. Just one convention is 22+ hours of brainwashing in half a week, plus all the grooming outside of meeting. We would often go to 5 meetings a week during the rest of the year, and if we misbehaved our parents would punish us by taking us to even more meetings. We would drive to adjacent fields and across state lines to go to all kinds of gospel meetings One thing I noticed in these interviews was how many times they mentioned being unable to research the cult or talk about it for 10+ years after leaving. It was exactly the same thing even for someone super wicked and unwilling like me. I remember now how many times the workers preached about not looking on the internet, burning books and letters that exes would send, and how reading the "Black Book" (Secret Sect I guess) would result in you losing out and burning in hell. For over 10 years the programming was so strong in my mind that it never even occurred to me to search online for the crazy cult that I grew up in. Just on autopilot all alone trying to survive. So many other things we deeply programmed and I didn't do for over a decade like going to a movie theater, bowling, trying alcohol. And so many more are still messing me up. When I left many years ago there wasn't even personal computers never mind social media. You just left and that was that. I was like you. Knowing how much the workers hated TV and radio I never dreamed that the group would ever own a computer never mind using it. I was on a social media religions board where I was asked what my group was called that I grew up in . I happened to mention that they were called the friends and workers and had no name. I didn't even know they were called 2x2's at that point. Someone came on and gave me a link to this TMB board and I was taken so totally by surprise that anyone that was professing was online. I just couldn't believe it!! And, here we are. Who'd a thunk it! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2022 12:42:58 GMT -5
I still don't see how the church could hurt someone? Maybe it consumed you and when you quit, you became an aimless empty vessel. You then wandered into things that were the polar opposite. If you can't understand how the Truth hurt you or why your convinced that it affected you so adversely, perhaps a closer inward examination would reveal that it was never the church in the first place? I'm just speculating of course, but I suspect you may have blamed any church that you might have been affiliated with for every negative thought? Why would a friendly and loving fellowship make you unhappy? Maybe you became overwhelmed because you put too much pressure on yourself and never felt good enough? I don't have the answers, but your overt reaction in assigning blame for all your past anguish seems misdirected.
People don't like it and leave for various reasons, but why harbor hostility towards something they're no longer involved with? Many people grew-up with alcoholic parents, suffered physical abuse, were unloved, mistreated, etc. So listening to the whiners crying in their beers because they had to wear a long skirt, couldn't watch TV, or go bowling, just seems trivial in comparison to people who've actually experienced genuine hardships.. jmo
Well said... |
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