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Post by fixit on Jun 26, 2022 2:43:58 GMT -5
I haven't heard that kind of talk for many years. I think all the younger workers know better than that. So you do admit that they did preach it. They may not be preaching that directly now but they are indirectly. They do still say this way is from the beginning which of course we know from growing up means their church. They need to be clear about what they mean by 'this way' because professing people interpret it as their church and the workers ministry continues in a line back to Jesus. When challenged the workers twist it to say it's how the listener interprets it which is just denial on their part. Yes, preaching that alludes to the organisation going back to Jesus is deceitful and wrong. That's why I push back against Nathan's preaching of endless genealogies.
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help
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Post by help on Jun 26, 2022 4:40:45 GMT -5
Curly you are stretching old Man's stuffed brain a bit now. Thanks for the link and I notice that ute was manufactured 1949-1953. Looks a bit too modern, bit similar. Dad bought his SH in 1945, before that one was manufactured. I would guess that Dad's was made around 1940 when I was one year old. I remember he put a new motor in it. Then done up the old motor to drive the firewood saw bench.
Holden was founded in 1856 as a saddlery manufacturer in South Australia. In 1908, it moved into the automotive field. My guess is they grabbed a 1938-49 Prefect cut the back off and converted it to a ute. Two of our boys have had this done to brand new Toyota Cruisers in Brisbane. The back gets cut off, chassis extended and a small ute body put on. They then use them to toe their Caravans around Australia. More money than sense, cost about $200,000. Maybe Holden was doing much the same thing back around 1940, at a much lessor price. Would love to find a photo of it.
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Post by fixit on Jun 26, 2022 5:07:16 GMT -5
I haven't heard that kind of talk for many years. I think all the younger workers know better than that. The teenagers leaving the Truth say otherwise, elder. This is a typical post over on Reddit from a kid in Australia. They are just as shocked to find out about WI as past generations. https://www.reddit.com/r/ex2x2/comments/qhuymy/hi_all_im_new_here_in_the_process_of_leaving_the/ I can't speak for Australia.
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Post by fixit on Jun 26, 2022 5:19:40 GMT -5
I mentioned it to an older worker once, and he confirmed it all, and said it should be no secret. The issue was more political, in that too many had placed their faith in that particular issue, and to openly come out with it, would shake them, and possible even cause all sorts of ructions. He was probably right, although I always felt that once it was openly acknowledged, accepted and dealt with, people could then "flush that dunny and move on." Well said. If people's faith was in something that is untrue, how could there be any virtue in it? Pragmatic, have you heard workers alluding to an unbroken line since Nathan McCarthy passed on?
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 26, 2022 5:58:37 GMT -5
I mentioned it to an older worker once, and he confirmed it all, and said it should be no secret. The issue was more political, in that too many had placed their faith in that particular issue, and to openly come out with it, would shake them, and possible even cause all sorts of ructions. He was probably right, although I always felt that once it was openly acknowledged, accepted and dealt with, people could then "flush that dunny and move on." Well said. If people's faith was in something that is untrue, how could there be any virtue in it? Pragmatic , have you heard workers alluding to an unbroken line since Nathan McCarthy passed on? No I haven’t, now that you mention it. He has/had a lot to answer for.
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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2022 6:47:18 GMT -5
She will never publish an account of my experience as an ex-2x2 (or snows, or dmmichgood's, or rational's, or Matt10's...) because my path led me to atheism. The stories of atheist ex-2x2's are purposefully excluded from the site. Atheism is the natural conclusion reached from reading the bible with an open and honest mind. The narrative in scripture does not end claiming a deity literally exists so if read with original context in mind I dont see how one could actually be a Atheist after reading it, if they are they haven't understood the narrative and it's actual purpose is not to claim what atheism rejects as literal Atheists can acutally display the divine character or the christ character which is literally believing in God or Christ and has nothing to do with existent deities, religion has just hijacked what those words represent and Atheism rejects the religious interpretation of scripture only.........
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Post by chuck on Jun 26, 2022 6:50:31 GMT -5
Atheism is the natural conclusion reached from reading the bible with an open and honest mind. ....with a Western mind but not understanding the people who wrote the bible. Atheism results from the religious claims. As you rightfully point out, the people who wrote the bible were on a trajectory that aligns with the Atheists view on there are no existent deities....
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Post by Annan on Jun 26, 2022 7:34:09 GMT -5
My father was devastated upon finding out the way didn't expend back to the shores of Galilee. In his mind, he was conned. He was deeply hurt. He believed in the way because how could it not be true as it was an unbroken line descended from Jesus and his apostles? That was the very foundation of the church. Last year my father apologized for making my sister and I wear long hems that made us outcasts in the neighborhood and in school. He is dying and is questioning much of what the way taught. It hurts to see him doubt what he spent a lifetime believing because of the lie of the foundation of the church. Oh what a tangled web the workers weaved. They devastated lives. Seems there should be some punishment for that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2022 10:01:05 GMT -5
Atheism is the natural conclusion reached from reading the bible with an open and honest mind. The narrative in scripture does not end claiming a deity literally exists so if read with original context in mind I dont see how one could actually be a Atheist after reading it, if they are they haven't understood the narrative and it's actual purpose is not to claim what atheism rejects as literal Atheists can acutally display the divine character or the christ character which is literally believing in God or Christ and has nothing to do with existent deities, religion has just hijacked what those words represent and Atheism rejects the religious interpretation of scripture only......... Regular Atheists would kick you to the curb for suggesting they believe in God through their actions.
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Post by fixit on Jun 26, 2022 14:02:35 GMT -5
The narrative in scripture does not end claiming a deity literally exists so if read with original context in mind I dont see how one could actually be a Atheist after reading it, if they are they haven't understood the narrative and it's actual purpose is not to claim what atheism rejects as literal Atheists can acutally display the divine character or the christ character which is literally believing in God or Christ and has nothing to do with existent deities, religion has just hijacked what those words represent and Atheism rejects the religious interpretation of scripture only......... Regular Atheists would kick you to the curb for suggesting they believe in God through their actions. Depends whether their atheism is simply an absence of theism or a rejection of bible fundamentalism.
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 26, 2022 15:37:01 GMT -5
My father was devastated upon finding out the way didn't expend back to the shores of Galilee. In his mind, he was conned. He was deeply hurt. He believed in the way because how could it not be true as it was an unbroken line descended from Jesus and his apostles? That was the very foundation of the church. Last year my father apologized for making my sister and I wear long hems that made us outcasts in the neighborhood and in school. He is dying and is questioning much of what the way taught. It hurts to see him doubt what he spent a lifetime believing because of the lie of the foundation of the church. Oh what a tangled web the workers weaved. They devastated lives. Seems there should be some punishment for that. It a hard thing to hear and to do. But if we aren't the ones who mete out punishment, there will never be any. The workers and their surrogates are running around with that guest005 style message targeting anyone who dares speak up and telling them to "just get over it"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2022 20:11:34 GMT -5
Regular Atheists would kick you to the curb for suggesting they believe in God through their actions. Depends whether their atheism is simply an absence of theism or a rejection of bible fundamentalism. This post shows a clear lack of understanding of, well, anything...
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help
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Post by help on Jun 26, 2022 21:33:56 GMT -5
There were many lies told in the "Truth', however it is not the only cult to engage in lies to shore up its shaky foundations. This is why honest people would apply the same blow torch of examination to all facets of religion, not just the one they are dissatisfied with. Ever watched a childs sand castle crumble as the incoming tide demolishes it. That's what happens to religion when it is examined. I mentioned it to an older worker once, and he confirmed it all, and said it should be no secret. The issue was more political, in that too many had placed their faith in that particular issue, and to openly come out with it, would shake them, and possible even cause all sorts of ructions. He was probably right, although I always felt that once it was openly acknowledged, accepted and dealt with, people could then "flush that dunny and move on."
I do well recall some senior women workers preach it, however. I personally believe they weren't lying, because they probably didn't know, or didn't want to believe it.
One women worker that I found it ok to discuss the subject with was Georgie Manning, an older Irish worker. Others may have found her a bit "stiff upper lippish", but I found her great. Others like Stephen Kircher, Frank Hitchins and co either were ignorant, in denial, or not being honest. Some may have also found it to be a truth that young people shoud not have to deal with, which would be insulting, to say the least.
Prags I agree with you. I loved Georgie Manning a bright, warm and friendly Lady. She was also very knowledgeable. Not real sure but she could have been a Teacher before going into the Work. The Mannings had good brains, Bernard went to Oxford University and lectured at a Melbourne University before he went into the Work. He was Georgie's Nephew. I had a special liking for Georgie. When I was born it nearly killed my Mother, she got blood poisoning. Spent ages in Hospital. Her younger Sister my Aunt cared for me as a Baby. After I went back to Mum, she still had stints in Hospital. During those times Georgie and Nell Crawford used help Dad look after us 3 Boys. Dad worked on the Railways, away a lot so it was up to Georgie and Nell to feed us, do washing, etc. Some years later when I was a lad, at Convention we always were glad to see Georgie. She used to tease me and say that she bathed me as a Baby. Used to embarrass me a bit, of course she meant no harm. I will always love and respect those Victorian Sister Workers in that 1940's era. Very caring, gracious Ladies. the Senior Sister was Hilda Stewart could tear strips off you. Bit like Mr Pickering sort of became attack Dogs. If you needed straightening out they did the job. Of course they brought the other Workers into line. Oh the memories, will always cherish them, the good ones, not the bad. Georgie was also very capable with bookwork. Used to run the Office at Dandenong Conventions. You would go to see Georgie to hand in the envelope, buy a Bible or Hymn book. After Conventions Georgie would make up an order and send off to RL Allan & Son in Glasgow. Took about 3 months before you got your new book. Came out by Boat, from UK, then posted to you by Georgie. She was a great Lady.
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Post by chuck on Jun 27, 2022 2:58:20 GMT -5
The narrative in scripture does not end claiming a deity literally exists so if read with original context in mind I dont see how one could actually be a Atheist after reading it, if they are they haven't understood the narrative and it's actual purpose is not to claim what atheism rejects as literal Atheists can acutally display the divine character or the christ character which is literally believing in God or Christ and has nothing to do with existent deities, religion has just hijacked what those words represent and Atheism rejects the religious interpretation of scripture only......... Regular Atheists would kick you to the curb for suggesting they believe in God through their actions. Im not suggesting they do believe in your God wally....your God is separate from the actions itself which is exactly the way you structured your comment......the word God in these ancient texts is a title....you do God.... that is not showing you believe in a existent deity through your actions.....in scripture God speaking is not a existent deity speaking to people, its people doing things that they think is right, sometimes they get it wrong other times they get it right........ I believe the witch made a good point about God the other day and how westerners have missed the mark on the word and it's intent in original language....
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Post by chuck on Jun 27, 2022 3:09:44 GMT -5
Depends whether their atheism is simply an absence of theism or a rejection of bible fundamentalism. This post shows a clear lack of understanding of, well, anything... Fixit can see the cultural foundation that is foreign to our western way of thinking. It is a mistake on your part to think he lacks understanding.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 27, 2022 7:49:14 GMT -5
I mentioned it to an older worker once, and he confirmed it all, and said it should be no secret. The issue was more political, in that too many had placed their faith in that particular issue, and to openly come out with it, would shake them, and possible even cause all sorts of ructions. He was probably right, although I always felt that once it was openly acknowledged, accepted and dealt with, people could then "flush that dunny and move on."
I do well recall some senior women workers preach it, however. I personally believe they weren't lying, because they probably didn't know, or didn't want to believe it.
One women worker that I found it ok to discuss the subject with was Georgie Manning, an older Irish worker. Others may have found her a bit "stiff upper lippish", but I found her great. Others like Stephen Kircher, Frank Hitchins and co either were ignorant, in denial, or not being honest. Some may have also found it to be a truth that young people shoud not have to deal with, which would be insulting, to say the least.
Prags I agree with you. I loved Georgie Manning a bright, warm and friendly Lady. She was also very knowledgeable. Not real sure but she could have been a Teacher before going into the Work. The Mannings had good brains, Bernard went to Oxford University and lectured at a Melbourne University before he went into the Work. He was Georgie's Nephew. I had a special liking for Georgie. When I was born it nearly killed my Mother, she got blood poisoning. Spent ages in Hospital. Her younger Sister my Aunt cared for me as a Baby. After I went back to Mum, she still had stints in Hospital. During those times Georgie and Nell Crawford used help Dad look after us 3 Boys. Dad worked on the Railways, away a lot so it was up to Georgie and Nell to feed us, do washing, etc. Some years later when I was a lad, at Convention we always were glad to see Georgie. She used to tease me and say that she bathed me as a Baby. Used to embarrass me a bit, of course she meant no harm. I will always love and respect those Victorian Sister Workers in that 1940's era. Very caring, gracious Ladies. the Senior Sister was Hilda Stewart could tear strips off you. Bit like Mr Pickering sort of became attack Dogs. If you needed straightening out they did the job. Of course they brought the other Workers into line. Oh the memories, will always cherish them, the good ones, not the bad. Georgie was also very capable with bookwork. Used to run the Office at Dandenong Conventions. You would go to see Georgie to hand in the envelope, buy a Bible or Hymn book. After Conventions Georgie would make up an order and send off to RL Allan & Son in Glasgow. Took about 3 months before you got your new book. Came out by Boat, from UK, then posted to you by Georgie. She was a great Lady. Interesting. Why do you call him Mr. Pickering? Was his first name Walter? Amazing how the SWs pitched in to help your family! Things sure changed!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2022 10:15:27 GMT -5
Regular Atheists would kick you to the curb for suggesting they believe in God through their actions. Im not suggesting they do believe in your God wally....your God is separate from the actions itself which is exactly the way you structured your comment......the word God in these ancient texts is a title....you do God.... that is not showing you believe in a existent deity through your actions.....in scripture God speaking is not a existent deity speaking to people, its people doing things that they think is right, sometimes they get it wrong other times they get it right........ I believe the witch made a good point about God the other day and how westerners have missed the mark on the word and it's intent in original language.... You are in for a big surprise....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2022 10:17:14 GMT -5
This post shows a clear lack of understanding of, well, anything... Fixit can see the cultural foundation that is foreign to our western way of thinking. It is a mistake on your part to think he lacks understanding. He's giving up the truth for chuckism, of course he lacks understanding....
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Post by intelchips on Jun 27, 2022 15:35:09 GMT -5
Fixit can see the cultural foundation that is foreign to our western way of thinking. It is a mistake on your part to think he lacks understanding. He's giving up the truth for chuckism, of course he lacks understanding.... You have been weighted and measured in your own understanding and found wanting!
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Post by chuck on Jun 27, 2022 15:48:16 GMT -5
Fixit can see the cultural foundation that is foreign to our western way of thinking. It is a mistake on your part to think he lacks understanding. He's giving up the truth for chuckism, of course he lacks understanding.... Describe chuckism.....and then show historically, culturally and linguistically the error of my ways without the bible.....
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Post by chuck on Jun 27, 2022 15:51:26 GMT -5
Im not suggesting they do believe in your God wally....your God is separate from the actions itself which is exactly the way you structured your comment......the word God in these ancient texts is a title....you do God.... that is not showing you believe in a existent deity through your actions.....in scripture God speaking is not a existent deity speaking to people, its people doing things that they think is right, sometimes they get it wrong other times they get it right........ I believe the witch made a good point about God the other day and how westerners have missed the mark on the word and it's intent in original language.... You are in for a big surprise.... How so....can you name anyone else within you lifetime who has had this big surprise and what is the evidence you can present of this surprise?.
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Post by intelchips on Jun 27, 2022 15:58:46 GMT -5
He's giving up the truth for chuckism, of course he lacks understanding.... Describe chuckism.....and then show historically, culturally and linguistically the error of my ways without the bible..... Wally has only two choices: pasting from got questions or the bible. Even when he relies on an outsider Like Bart Ehrman he doesn't understand how out of touch Bart can go and how to keep his job he must remain with the official dogma. Example: Ehrman begins with Ant 20,200-203 (=20.9.1), i.e. with the passage about the execution of a man named James, who is described as “the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ”. Ehrman does not hesitate to identify him with the church leader brother James because of this. With reference to Jesus, this means for Ehrman, “We learn two things about him: he had a brother named James and some people mistook him for the Messiah” . However, Ehrman also knows mythicists, radical critics who consider the passage to be interpolated, and announces that he will deal with them after the treatment of the Testimonium Flavianum. Well, good things take time, the reader thinks, flicks on and looks forward to the discussion announced by Ehrman at a later passage. But at the end of the section he feels disappointed. Not a trace of an answer from Ehrman! Neither in the corresponding chapter nor anywhere else. In fact, after a few pages, the author seems to have forgotten his announced promise completely. It appears that the absent-minded professor must have been in a hurry to finish this book! Unlike Bart Wally hasn't published as-far-as I know but in the same manor when I have presented counter evidence to his faith he does as I say above and never offers why I may be wrong. So I doubt he will give you a satisfactory answer.
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 27, 2022 16:10:31 GMT -5
You are in for a big surprise.... How so....can you name anyone else within you lifetime who has had this big surprise and what is the evidence you can present of this surprise?. There's an entire book dedicated to this surprise, and how you can avoid said surprise. Unfortunately depending on which of the many man written iterations you choose, it's a tedious read, full of murder, and child abuse, with disobedient wives coming in for plenty of heat too.
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Post by chuck on Jun 27, 2022 16:27:59 GMT -5
How so....can you name anyone else within you lifetime who has had this big surprise and what is the evidence you can present of this surprise?. There's an entire book dedicated to this surprise, and how you can avoid said surprise. Unfortunately depending on which of the many man written iterations you choose, it's a tedious read, full of murder, and child abuse, with disobedient wives coming in for plenty of heat too. It's ancient wisdom......all your comments are 2000+ yrs out of context, I dont understand why people deliberately do this. Yes I know you have been bashed to death with this book, its not the books fault it was used in that manner but that does not make it right to also refer to this book with the same ignorance of those who beat you with it.
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help
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Post by help on Jun 27, 2022 16:40:20 GMT -5
Quote Cherie's post: Interesting. Why do you call him Mr. Pickering? Was his first name Walter? Amazing how the SWs pitched in to help your family! Things sure changed! I guess it was because he was a bit intimidating, not a person that you could get close to. And of course when he came into the home you were told to get rid of "Worldly" things. So I guess people were a little frightened of him, that is why he was always referred to as Mr. Pickering, not Walter and certainly never Wally. He only lived to preach the Gospel, would have more notches in the belt than any other Worker in Victoria, maybe anywhere. Having 6 Gospel meetings a week helps. Doubt that would happen nowadays, times have changed.
But of course in contrast it was always a pleasure to have Sister Workers visit. Much more relaxed and enjoyable. They were wonderful Ladies. I know that my Parents were very grateful for the help they gave our Family.
A little story that happened with Mr Pickering. We had a Dairy Farm, and Mum and Dad heard it helped the Cows to be healthier if you put Goats with them. So they bought a Billy and a Nanny. Mr Pickering liked to feed the Chooks, came out one afternoon with a bowl of wheat, spreading like a good sower should. Billy thought he would like some, but Mr. Pickering lunged the bowl at him and said shoo. Billy was not about to be told what to do by a Worker, stepped back, charged, put Mr Pickering flat on his back. Luckily Mr Pickering was not hurt, just got up and shook the dust off. But sadly it earned Billy a one way trip in the back of the Ute with Dad and a Rifle. Nanny lost her Husband.
Some weeks later one night Mr Pickering was preaching at a Gospel Meeting and got to the Sheep, Goats thing as they always do. He said you can always trust a Sheep, but never a Goat. Mum, and Dad gave a wry smile knowing that Mr. Pickering had learnt the hard way.
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 27, 2022 16:49:00 GMT -5
There's an entire book dedicated to this surprise, and how you can avoid said surprise. Unfortunately depending on which of the many man written iterations you choose, it's a tedious read, full of murder, and child abuse, with disobedient wives coming in for plenty of heat too. It's ancient wisdom......all your comments are 2000+ yrs out of context, I dont understand why people deliberately do this. Yes I know you have been bashed to death with this book, its not the books fault it was used in that manner but that does not make it right to also refer to this book with the same ignorance of those who beat you with it. Why would I read something into it that's not there, and ignore a whole lot that is? Do you get the instructions for a new appliance, ignore what is written & try to look for the hidden meaning while becoming annoyed at it not working. The out of date part is the absolute fairy tale that intelligent rational adults become completely hung up on to their detriment.
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Post by verna on Jun 27, 2022 17:02:30 GMT -5
Quote Cherie's post: Interesting. Why do you call him Mr. Pickering? Was his first name Walter? Amazing how the SWs pitched in to help your family! Things sure changed! I guess it was because he was a bit intimidating, not a person that you could get close to. And of course when he came into the home you were told to get rid of "Worldly" things. So I guess people were a little frightened of him, that is why he was always referred to as Mr. Pickering, not Walter and certainly never Wally. He only lived to preach the Gospel, would have more notches in the belt than any other Worker in Victoria, maybe anywhere. Having 6 Gospel meetings a week helps. Doubt that would happen nowadays, times have changed. But of course in contrast it was always a pleasure to have Sister Workers visit. Much more relaxed and enjoyable. They were wonderful Ladies. I know that my Parents were very grateful for the help they gave our Family. A little story that happened with Mr Pickering. We had a Dairy Farm, and Mum and Dad heard it helped the Cows to be healthier if you put Goats with them. So they bought a Billy and a Nanny. Mr Pickering liked to feed the Chooks, came out one afternoon with a bowl of wheat, spreading like a good sower should. Billy thought he would like some, but Mr. Pickering lunged the bowl at him and said shoo. Billy was not about to be told what to do by a Worker, stepped back, charged, put Mr Pickering flat on his back. Luckily Mr Pickering was not hurt, just got up and shook the dust off. But sadly it earned Billy a one way trip in the back of the Ute with Dad and a Rifle. Nanny lost her Husband. Some weeks later one night Mr Pickering was preaching at a Gospel Meeting and got to the Sheep, Goats thing as they always do. He said you can always trust a Sheep, but never a Goat. Mum, and Dad gave a wry smile knowing that Mr. Pickering had learnt the hard way. I remember Sidney Lee requiring that us kids call him Mr Lee. Don’t think he required that of the adults though.
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help
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Post by help on Jun 27, 2022 17:08:09 GMT -5
Some used to call male Workers Uncle. Never heard sister Workers called Aunty. That was strange.
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