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Post by mountain on Jun 25, 2022 8:59:40 GMT -5
It has been a shock to some to discover the "shores of Galilee" are in Ireland. It's an easy mistake to make, especially if you are a tad hard on hearing. The Shores of Galway are in Ireland. Even Bing Crosby belts out about Galway Bay! www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9NM3SMRtaQ
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 25, 2022 12:26:49 GMT -5
Just where Charlie Ross was from . We have actually had a DNA 🧬 done to family still in Ireland .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jun 25, 2022 15:00:11 GMT -5
Just where Charlie Ross was from . We have actually had a DNA 🧬 done to family still in Ireland . He was very early worker . However the divide between with Irvine and others he could not stay with the infighting and tension . So he married and had kids . He passed away in the family home . He did have at least 1 child , which prompted 1 cuz to go to Ireland . Yes a complete DNA 🧬
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Post by fixit on Jun 25, 2022 16:21:15 GMT -5
The McConnells of NZ who shared an exit letter 1993 with Cherie (now on Expressions by Ex2x2's), were well positioned to confront the beginnings issue as not only themselves but other closely related professing families in NZ all had strong Irish backgrounds. Its quite amazing really when I researched a little here. We knew Mrs McConnell's elderly Irish parents well; we used to pick them up and take them to the gospel mtg and had many a cuppa with them. Lovely old couple. They both were born/lived a short distance from the early 1902 convention grounds in Enniscorthy, Ireland. One of those early Irish settlers in the same city told us William Irvine was the first worker. It was no secret, no big deal.
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Post by Grant on Jun 25, 2022 16:46:43 GMT -5
The McConnells of NZ who shared an exit letter 1993 with Cherie (now on Expressions by Ex2x2's), were well positioned to confront the beginnings issue as not only themselves but other closely related professing families in NZ all had strong Irish backgrounds. Its quite amazing really when I researched a little here. We knew Mrs McConnell's elderly Irish parents well; we used to pick them up and take them to the gospel mtg and had many a cuppa with them. Lovely old couple. They both were born/lived a short distance  from the early 1902 convention grounds in Enniscorthy, Ireland. One of those early Irish settlers in the same city told us William Irvine was the first worker. It was no secret, no big deal. So if you knew that how could you sit and listen to them preaching that unlike other churches they had no earthly founder, etc etc. Did you not challenge them. This was the lie that was told and under which many of our ancestors professed and many today are leaving because of.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 25, 2022 16:52:53 GMT -5
There were many lies told in the "Truth', however it is not the only cult to engage in lies to shore up its shaky foundations. This is why honest people would apply the same blow torch of examination to all facets of religion, not just the one they are dissatisfied with. Ever watched a childs sand castle crumble as the incoming tide demolishes it. That's what happens to religion when it is examined.
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Post by mrdobalina on Jun 25, 2022 17:38:44 GMT -5
There were many lies told in the "Truth', however it is not the only cult to engage in lies to shore up its shaky foundations. This is why honest people would apply the same blow torch of examination to all facets of religion, not just the one they are dissatisfied with. Ever watched a childs sand castle crumble as the incoming tide demolishes it. That's what happens to religion when it is examined. We sung a hymn about building on the rock we shall not fail. So much irony.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 25, 2022 18:32:29 GMT -5
There were many lies told in the "Truth', however it is not the only cult to engage in lies to shore up its shaky foundations. This is why honest people would apply the same blow torch of examination to all facets of religion, not just the one they are dissatisfied with. Ever watched a childs sand castle crumble as the incoming tide demolishes it. That's what happens to religion when it is examined. We sung a hymn about building on the rock we shall not fail. So much irony. Rocks fail all the time, Even the best of rock such as granite. Here's a video of some granite obeying the laws of gravity. There's a reason why there is talus slopes at the foot of mountains and flood plains created by rivers transporting material. www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJRPA9p4JdI
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Post by fixit on Jun 25, 2022 20:59:16 GMT -5
One of those early Irish settlers in the same city told us William Irvine was the first worker. It was no secret, no big deal. So if you knew that how could you sit and listen to them preaching that unlike other churches they had no earthly founder, etc etc. Did you not challenge them. This was the lie that was told and under which many of our ancestors professed and many today are leaving because of. I haven't heard that kind of talk for many years. I think all the younger workers know better than that.
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Post by Grant on Jun 25, 2022 21:08:35 GMT -5
So if you knew that how could you sit and listen to them preaching that unlike other churches they had no earthly founder, etc etc. Did you not challenge them. This was the lie that was told and under which many of our ancestors professed and many today are leaving because of. I haven't heard that kind of talk for many years. I think all the younger workers know better than that. So you do admit that they did preach it. They may not be preaching that directly now but they are indirectly. They do still say this way is from the beginning which of course we know from growing up means their church. They need to be clear about what they mean by 'this way' because professing people interpret it as their church and the workers ministry continues in a line back to Jesus. When challenged the workers twist it to say it's how the listener interprets it which is just denial on their part.
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Post by guest8 on Jun 25, 2022 21:28:42 GMT -5
One could gather then, there was a disconnect between friends and workers 'in years yonder' in regards to ther stories and understanding. Perplexing.
Personally, it doesn't impress. Myself and others I know, were part of the years yonder. I was not referring to this present time.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jun 25, 2022 21:44:43 GMT -5
There were many lies told in the "Truth', however it is not the only cult to engage in lies to shore up its shaky foundations. This is why honest people would apply the same blow torch of examination to all facets of religion, not just the one they are dissatisfied with. Ever watched a childs sand castle crumble as the incoming tide demolishes it. That's what happens to religion when it is examined. I mentioned it to an older worker once, and he confirmed it all, and said it should be no secret. The issue was more political, in that too many had placed their faith in that particular issue, and to openly come out with it, would shake them, and possible even cause all sorts of ructions. He was probably right, although I always felt that once it was openly acknowledged, accepted and dealt with, people could then "flush that dunny and move on."
I do well recall some senior women workers preach it, however. I personally believe they weren't lying, because they probably didn't know, or didn't want to believe it.
One women worker that I found it ok to discuss the subject with was Georgie Manning, an older Irish worker. Others may have found her a bit "stiff upper lippish", but I found her great. Others like Stephen Kircher, Frank Hitchins and co either were ignorant, in denial, or not being honest. Some may have also found it to be a truth that young people shoud not have to deal with, which would be insulting, to say the least.
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Post by openingact34 on Jun 25, 2022 21:46:46 GMT -5
So if you knew that how could you sit and listen to them preaching that unlike other churches they had no earthly founder, etc etc. Did you not challenge them. This was the lie that was told and under which many of our ancestors professed and many today are leaving because of. I haven't heard that kind of talk for many years. I think all the younger workers know better than that. The teenagers leaving the Truth say otherwise, elder. This is a typical post over on Reddit from a kid in Australia. They are just as shocked to find out about WI as past generations. https://www.reddit.com/r/ex2x2/comments/qhuymy/hi_all_im_new_here_in_the_process_of_leaving_the/
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Post by guest8 on Jun 25, 2022 21:58:18 GMT -5
Thanks for your post Pragmatic.... I agree re openly acknowledging it, accept and deal with it and then move on. In all walks of life this would be the recommended approach.
I don't like to use the word lying, in relation to workers of more recent times because I think there was a fragmented understanding among them. And it was passed on and passed on as a result of those early guys. I believe, dear Stephen would not of had access to internet info on worker ipads, in his time of preaching. I only found out the truth myself, in late 1980-90's some time. Never heard of Frank Hitchins. Georgie was nice.
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Post by guest8 on Jun 25, 2022 22:11:38 GMT -5
'oh how perplexing life would be if a stretch of the truth was told to me".
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help
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Post by help on Jun 25, 2022 22:40:52 GMT -5
Frank Hitchings was a Victorian Worker in Australia. He would have started in the work around 1946-47. We had him a lot in our home when he first started in the work. Senior Worker was Mr Pickering from NZ, a real tyrant, gave everybody a hard time. Frank was trained by Bill Carroll who was one of the 12 Workers appointed by WI after that first Convention. All new Workers in Victoria spent the first 12 months with Bill Carroll at Rosebud learning the ropes. The Victorian Workers were a very close group and I feel sure they would have known the history of the 2x2 Church. They would have learnt in their first 12 months with Bill Carroll. But those older Workers knew and kept mom. The ones who came later found out when Doug Parker's book The Secret Sect hit the shelves.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 25, 2022 23:06:05 GMT -5
Frank Hitchings was a Victorian Worker in Australia. He would have started in the work around 1946-47. We had him a lot in our home when he first started in the work. Senior Worker was Mr Pickering from NZ, a real tyrant, gave everybody a hard time. Frank was trained by Bill Carroll who was one of the 12 Workers appointed by WI after that first Convention. All new Workers in Victoria spent the first 12 months with Bill Carroll at Rosebud learning the ropes. The Victorian Workers were a very close group and I feel sure they would have known the history of the 2x2 Church. They would have learnt in their first 12 months with Bill Carroll. But those older Workers knew and kept mom. The ones who came later found out when Doug Parker's book The Secret Sect hit the shelves. Frank was an interesting character. Inclined to sing a Hymn during his sermon. When visiting home and offered a cuppa and cake he was fond of saying he would settle for a cuppa and a look out the window. Later when he died, but I had moved away, I found out he probably had stomach or bowel cancer. He liked walking and we often walked around the block discussing stuff as we went. Looking back, I suspect he had a simple faith and did not want to think too much about questions that would shake that faith. I have not heard of Mr Pickering. Do you mean Robert Barbour or was he the NZer in charge of SA. ps, I believe his surname was Hitchens.
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Post by guest8 on Jun 25, 2022 23:26:10 GMT -5
Frank Hitchings was a Victorian Worker in Australia. He would have started in the work around 1946-47. We had him a lot in our home when he first started in the work. Senior Worker was Mr Pickering from NZ, a real tyrant, gave everybody a hard time. Frank was trained by Bill Carroll who was one of the 12 Workers appointed by WI after that first Convention. All new Workers in Victoria spent the first 12 months with Bill Carroll at Rosebud learning the ropes. The Victorian Workers were a very close group and I feel sure they would have known the history of the 2x2 Church. They would have learnt in their first 12 months with Bill Carroll. But those older Workers knew and kept mom. The ones who came later found out when Doug Parker's book The Secret Sect hit the shelves. You mean all new workers in Victoria soon learnt how an overseer can live in luxury at Rosebud and have juniors running around after him? Sorry being facetious.
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Post by guest8 on Jun 25, 2022 23:29:01 GMT -5
Frank Hitchings was a Victorian Worker in Australia. He would have started in the work around 1946-47. We had him a lot in our home when he first started in the work. Senior Worker was Mr Pickering from NZ, a real tyrant, gave everybody a hard time. Frank was trained by Bill Carroll who was one of the 12 Workers appointed by WI after that first Convention. All new Workers in Victoria spent the first 12 months with Bill Carroll at Rosebud learning the ropes. The Victorian Workers were a very close group and I feel sure they would have known the history of the 2x2 Church. They would have learnt in their first 12 months with Bill Carroll. But those older Workers knew and kept mom. The ones who came later found out when Doug Parker's book The Secret Sect hit the shelves. Frank was an interesting character. Inclined to sing a Hymn during his sermon. When visiting home and offered a cuppa and cake he was fond of saying he would settle for a cuppa and a look out the window. Later when he died, but I had moved away, I found out he probably had stomach or bowel cancer. He liked walking and we often walked around the block discussing stuff as we went. Looking back, I suspect he had a simple faith and did not want to think too much about questions that would shake that faith. I have not heard of Mr Pickering. Do you mean Robert Barbour or was he the NZer in charge of SA. ps, I believe his surname was Hitchens. I've never heard of Mr Pickering or Pickerings in NZ in my time, although I have read reference to him coming from N.Z.
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help
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Post by help on Jun 25, 2022 23:34:42 GMT -5
Frank did have some difficulty preaching, used to feel sorry for him at Convention. Maybe a bit nervous and lacking confidence. Cut many Ferns with him side by side on the Farm. I thought it was Hitchings but I could be wrong, going senile. There was a Bruce Hitchings also, an Uncle to Frank I think. Cherie would know the spelling of the surname, it would be on old Worker lists. Frank could play a hymn on a Gum leaf, really good. Something like this guy. www.youtube.com/watch?v=McmWdYHblXc
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help
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Post by help on Jun 25, 2022 23:41:19 GMT -5
Do you have a Bay Of Islands in NZ. I think that is where Mr. Pickering came from. Often spoke about it. Always addressed as Mr.Pickering. Nobody ever dared to call him Walter or Wally.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 25, 2022 23:56:14 GMT -5
Do you have a Bay Of Islands in NZ. I think that is where Mr. Pickering came from. Often spoke about it. Always addressed as Mr.Pickering. Nobody ever dared to call him Walter or Wally. Yes, there is a Bay of Islands. Was he a wally?
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help
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Post by help on Jun 26, 2022 0:30:52 GMT -5
Er no comment Curly. I know it was always a great relief when his visit came to an end. Ourselves and the Dogs were able to get back to normal. The only book you were allowed to read was the Bible. Although he was always the first to read the newspaper when we brought home after we finished School. He spent a lot of time with us, we must have been a bit wayward. Although maybe it was because Dad had a small Ford Prefect ute. Not many vehicles about then, because of the War. We used to travel many miles a week, he would have 3 missions on the go at once. 6 Gospel meetings a week. Mum and Dad and Mr. Pickering in the front, Frank or Eddie and us in the back of the ute. Do not know how they fitted in the front. Maybe Mr Pickering nursed Mum, perhaps not. Dad did put a canvas cover over the back for us. The fumes used to waft in, how we were not wiped out by carbon monoxide I will never know. Mr Pickering may have been God.
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Post by guest8 on Jun 26, 2022 0:36:02 GMT -5
Er no comment Curly. I know it was always a great relief when his visit came to an end. Ourselves and the Dogs were able to get back to normal. The only book you were allowed to read was the Bible. Although he was always the first to read the newspaper when we brought home after we finished School. He spent a lot of time with us, we must have been a bit wayward. Although maybe it was because Dad had a small Ford Prefect ute. Not many vehicles about then, because of the War. We used to travel many miles a week, he would have 3 missions on the go at once. 6 Gospel meetings a week. Mum and Dad and Mr. Pickering in the front, Frank or Eddie and us in the back of the ute. Do not know how they fitted in the front. Maybe Mr Pickering nursed Mum, perhaps not. Dad did put a canvas cover over the back for us. The fumes used to waft in, how we were not wiped out by carbon monoxide I will never know. Mr Pickering may have been God. You need to write a book, you have great knowledge of those times. I found this chapter riveting bedtime reading. www.tellingthetruth.info/history_divisions/south_australia.php
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 26, 2022 1:02:42 GMT -5
Er no comment Curly. I know it was always a great relief when his visit came to an end. Ourselves and the Dogs were able to get back to normal. The only book you were allowed to read was the Bible. Although he was always the first to read the newspaper when we brought home after we finished School. He spent a lot of time with us, we must have been a bit wayward. Although maybe it was because Dad had a small Ford Prefect ute. Not many vehicles about then, because of the War. We used to travel many miles a week, he would have 3 missions on the go at once. 6 Gospel meetings a week. Mum and Dad and Mr. Pickering in the front, Frank or Eddie and us in the back of the ute. Do not know how they fitted in the front. Maybe Mr Pickering nursed Mum, perhaps not. Dad did put a canvas cover over the back for us. The fumes used to waft in, how we were not wiped out by carbon monoxide I will never know. Mr Pickering may have been God. Interesting. I know how small Prefects were although I have never seen a ute version.
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help
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Post by help on Jun 26, 2022 2:15:11 GMT -5
The body was built by Holden Body Works. Only built bodies then before the Holden car was launched. Motor, gearbox, diff, Ford Prefect. Bit of a one only, don't know what happened to it. Probably a photo in a family album some place. Had a Prefect badge on the radiator and Holden badge on the side of the body. A Prefect/Holden.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jun 26, 2022 2:32:57 GMT -5
The body was built by Holden Body Works. Only built bodies then before the Holden car was launched. Motor, gearbox, diff, Ford Prefect. Bit of a one only, don't know what happened to it. Probably a photo in a family album some place. Had a Prefect badge on the radiator and Holden badge on the side of the body. A Prefect/Holden. www.hemmings.com/stories/article/ford-perfect-uteDid it look like this?
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Post by fixit on Jun 26, 2022 2:38:13 GMT -5
There were many lies told in the "Truth', however it is not the only cult to engage in lies to shore up its shaky foundations. This is why honest people would apply the same blow torch of examination to all facets of religion, not just the one they are dissatisfied with. Ever watched a childs sand castle crumble as the incoming tide demolishes it. That's what happens to religion when it is examined. We sung a hymn about building on the rock we shall not fail. So much irony. The rock Jesus spoke of was hearing and putting into practice his sayings. Nothing to do with following a religious system. Matthew 7:24 “Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25 Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. 26 But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27 When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.”
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