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Post by chuck on Aug 11, 2021 23:53:57 GMT -5
The bible mentions only mansions...where did your grass hut get mentioned? I heard it at convention. Regardless of semantics, my observation is correct. What's even more ironic is the place God resided in that day, In the temple!, quite funny if you heard that from a tentple.....
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Post by fixit on Aug 12, 2021 1:16:07 GMT -5
fixit. If the people are writing this because they are minimising the seriousness of Covid then that is wrong given healthy, young people have died or are permanently scarred by this virus. We are by nature a death-denying species (religiosity is part of this denial). When death occurs in advanced age or when a younger person dies who has been seriously ill and living with a compromised quality of life, then I cannot think of this as shocking. Death can be the better 'outcome' if the alternative is to exist in pain or other forms of suffering and be unable to enjoy life. It doesn't alter the fact that 'we can judge a society by how it treats its most vulnerable members', and Covid response is a classic example of that. It would be a callous society that didn't make a serious effort to protect its old and medically compromised from a disease like Covid-19.
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Post by guest8 on Aug 12, 2021 1:25:00 GMT -5
fixit . If the people are writing this because they are minimising the seriousness of Covid then that is wrong given healthy, young people have died or are permanently scarred by this virus. We are by nature a death-denying species (religiosity is part of this denial). When death occurs in advanced age or when a younger person dies who has been seriously ill and living with a compromised quality of life, then I cannot think of this as shocking. Death can be the better 'outcome' if the alternative is to exist in pain or other forms of suffering and be unable to enjoy life. It doesn't alter the fact that 'we can judge a society by how it treats its most vulnerable members', and Covid response is a classic example of that. It would be a callous society that didn't make a serious effort to protect its old and medically compromised from a disease like Covid-19. Yep, I know some beautiful aged people, who may experience some health challenges but they also are enjoying each day with family and friends. Dear souls. I love chatting to them.
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Post by chuck on Aug 12, 2021 1:31:35 GMT -5
So why read the bible for any other purpose than its' literary value? Just as advances in scientific knowledge have deemed past medical texts as obsolete and irrelevant, so too have advances in scientific knowledge and changes in ethical standards emphasised the anachronistic status of the bible. Your attempts to culturally appropriate biblical content so it conforms to present cultures (and this is only a relative minority of cultures as the Christian bible is irrelevant to most of the Middle East etc) simply serves to emphasise the bible's redundancy. Of all the books ever compiled why even focus on the bible? There are so many reliable guides for life that, in contrast to the bible, contain unambiguous advice. There is adequate evidence that the confusing, contradictory and too often violent, sectarian, patriarchal (too name just some) biblical content continues to hold a negative influence over the gullible. As far as I'm aware sex power and money are still issues today are they not?. If we have solved them then yes you are right the bible is irrelevant. Edit: as for confusion I am trying to point out the foundation of you argument against the bible is just a flawed as the Christian argument for the bible. I just can't convey it clearly as I see it sorry.
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Post by joanna on Aug 12, 2021 2:39:48 GMT -5
chuck Please don't apologise. I know that money is referred to in the bible and I can probably think of some verses related to power but I am honestly interested in what verses you are referring to when relying on the bible for advice about these three.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2021 12:21:09 GMT -5
fixit . If the people are writing this because they are minimising the seriousness of Covid then that is wrong given healthy, young people have died or are permanently scarred by this virus. We are by nature a death-denying species (religiosity is part of this denial). When death occurs in advanced age or when a younger person dies who has been seriously ill and living with a compromised quality of life, then I cannot think of this as shocking. Death can be the better 'outcome' if the alternative is to exist in pain or other forms of suffering and be unable to enjoy life. It doesn't alter the fact that 'we can judge a society by how it treats its most vulnerable members', and Covid response is a classic example of that. It would be a callous society that didn't make a serious effort to protect its old and medically compromised from a disease like Covid-19. I though you said earlier it wasn't a disease that mostly affected the old and those with underlying conditions?? where is the young in this here post of yours?? inquiring minds want to know...
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Post by fixit on Aug 12, 2021 13:10:17 GMT -5
It doesn't alter the fact that 'we can judge a society by how it treats its most vulnerable members', and Covid response is a classic example of that. It would be a callous society that didn't make a serious effort to protect its old and medically compromised from a disease like Covid-19. I though you said earlier it wasn't a disease that mostly affected the old and those with underlying conditions?? where is the young in this here post of yours?? inquiring minds want to know... Lets make it nice and inclusive for you Wally.... We can judge a society by how it treats its most vulnerable members as well as the rest of its members.
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Post by chuck on Aug 12, 2021 19:36:00 GMT -5
chuck Please don't apologise. I know that money is referred to in the bible and I can probably think of some verses related to power but I am honestly interested in what verses you are referring to when relying on the bible for advice about these three. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” - Exodus 20:17 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:17&version=NIVAlot of the bible narrative is encapsulated by this one verse. Of course when you literalise everything that just gets lost and we argue about irrelevant stuff like did Jesus really float off up into the sky or did a donkey really speak.....
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Post by mrdobalina on Aug 12, 2021 19:41:31 GMT -5
chuck Please don't apologise. I know that money is referred to in the bible and I can probably think of some verses related to power but I am honestly interested in what verses you are referring to when relying on the bible for advice about these three. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” - Exodus 20:17 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:17&version=NIVI own my neighbors house, how does that work for me? I'm not sure what they were up to in those days making rules regarding coveting ox & donkey, the wife part makes sense.
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Post by chuck on Aug 12, 2021 19:43:33 GMT -5
I own my neighbors house, how does that work for me? "anything that belongs to your neighbor"...
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Post by mrdobalina on Aug 12, 2021 19:45:34 GMT -5
I own my neighbors house, how does that work for me? "anything that belongs to your neighbor"... Yeah nah, his motorbike is fairly crap, and my wife is certainly way hotter. No issues there.
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Post by chuck on Aug 12, 2021 20:27:55 GMT -5
I own my neighbors house, how does that work for me? I'm not sure what they were up to in those days making rules regarding coveting ox & donkey, the wife part makes sense. Look at what they come from.
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Post by chuck on Aug 12, 2021 20:29:27 GMT -5
"anything that belongs to your neighbor"... Yeah nah, his motorbike is fairly crap, and my wife is certainly way hotter. No issues there. You see you are defining who is your neighbor. The kicker is everyone is your neighbor. When you get to define your neighbor you think your better than other people as you just displayed. Now I know you will disagree but you just said, your wifes better and your bikes better so you have defined your neighbor as someone lesser than you. When everyone one's your neighbor you can't do that. You haven't deliberately said you are better than your defined neighbor but you said it all the same. This is a great example of reading those verses from our culture, in our culture its the people next door. Not in theirs.
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Post by mrdobalina on Aug 12, 2021 23:22:54 GMT -5
You see you are defining who is your neighbor. The kicker is everyone is your neighbor. When you get to define your neighbor you think your better than other people as you just displayed. Now I know you will disagree but you just said, your wifes better and your bikes better so you have defined your neighbor as someone lesser than you. When everyone one's your neighbor you can't do that. You haven't deliberately said you are better than your defined neighbor but you said it all the same. This is a great example of reading those verses from our culture, in our culture its the people next door. Not in theirs. Na, what I've demonstrated is that I'm very unlikely to covet anything that he has. My bikes and wife are better, that's not me saying he's lesser than me, it's just a simple true fact.
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Post by chuck on Aug 12, 2021 23:29:30 GMT -5
Na, what I've demonstrated is that I'm very unlikely to covet anything that he has. My bikes and wife are better, that's not me saying he's lesser than me, it's just a simple true fact. I'll leave it at this, as I think we are to ships passing in the night beginning to argue off the point becoming personal which was never my intent or point. I should have worded my initial post better sorry. Your "neighbor" is not just the guy next door.
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Post by mrdobalina on Aug 13, 2021 0:50:00 GMT -5
I'll leave it at this, as I think we are to ships passing in the night beginning to argue off the point becoming personal which was never my intent or point. I should have worded my initial post better sorry. Your "neighbor" is not just the guy next door. Yeah, I get that "your neighbor" is pretty much anyone you come into contact with. I appreciate that its a sin to like or want someone else's Ferrari for example, which is a bit sad, because wanting what someone else has is great motivation to work hard and get one for yourself, whatever it may be. I'm OK with you chuck, I think you're a cool guy.
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Post by chuck on Aug 13, 2021 2:08:57 GMT -5
I'll leave it at this, as I think we are to ships passing in the night beginning to argue off the point becoming personal which was never my intent or point. I should have worded my initial post better sorry. Your "neighbor" is not just the guy next door. Yeah, I get that "your neighbor" is pretty much anyone you come into contact with. I appreciate that its a sin to like or want someone else's Ferrari for example, which is a bit sad, because wanting what someone else has is great motivation to work hard and get one for yourself, whatever it may be. I'm OK with you chuck, I think you're a cool guy. I honestly don't think that's really what coveting is about. Imo coveting your neighbor’s stuff is adressing our attitude towards others and ourselves. Coveting is living like you always wish you were someone else, usually someone more wealthy than yourself. And the flip side is looking down on others because of what they don't have. Seeing your neighbours Ferrari and wanting to work had to have one yourself isn't sin, that's what religion has just made up. Fear and guilt. When you think about coveting from a slaves perspective it's totally different, what this commandment is saying is dont make it a habitual way of life, if you do you it will wreck your life by wishing you were someone else all the time(you already have everything within you to be successful in your own way)or it will wreck other's lives by taking stealing killing their stuff because you think your better than them. Telling salves that in their new free life people can't just take their stuff and treat them less than human would have been mind blowing to them, and that's also how they should act towards others. Religion has just twisted the s..t out of for power and money essentially. 2 scriptural examples would be, David and Bathsheba, didn't end well for Uriah. David and Goliath, the downfall of Goliath was mocking David's job as a shepard. Goliath found out david was good at what he did. I bet you can think of current day examples of the destruction from habitual coveting. Keep working for your Ferrari 😉 Thanks for the grace 👍. I didn't word that post well sorry.
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Post by rejoicing on Aug 13, 2021 9:46:10 GMT -5
John 3:16 speaks only about a person of faith believing on Jesus Christ having eternal life. Therefore, when a p is rson with that faith dies, their soul enters Paradise in heaven to "rest" until the first resurrection. Yes, they have received salvation by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. After resurrection each resurrected eternal body and soul will then come before Jesus Christ to answer for what thryve done in their believing life. Even unto why they did whatever it was they did. There are 5 crowns awaiting believing souls in that Behema seat judgment. The Behema seat judgment is NOT ABOUT WHETHER THESE FAITHFUL PEOPLE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE because that's already been decided and they're of the first resurrection, but about their deeds and what rewards they may be given. The English bible doesnt speak of the Behema seat, but the Latin and Jewish bibles do. The Behema seat was a dias that was raised where the judge could watch the races or competitions on the ground around him. After all the competition is ons or races were complete, than the contestants for each competition would come upon the dias before the judge of the competition, and stand before the judge and he would call out the status of each competitor and what reward was for each place winning. This is very much like the Behema judgment those resurrected faithful will stand before Jesus Christ and answer for what deeds theyve done and why they did them. Then Jesus will tell them and others standing around what that person will be rewarded and what crown(s) are his/hers. And since there will be some who's deeds do not or did not stand the test by fire, they will not receive any rewards or any crowns. But their souls are saved and resurrected into eternal life. The thief on the cross is the first one that's known about I think it was Wally who said once, he thought eternal life was an awesome reward in itself. Hmm - sounds from this that the concept is fashioned after a human tradition. No? Very much the opposite.
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Post by rejoicing on Aug 13, 2021 9:52:44 GMT -5
I own my neighbors house, how does that work for me? I'm not sure what they were up to in those days making rules regarding coveting ox & donkey, the wife part makes sense. The persons who had many oxen and donkeys were considered wealthy. Stock was how men were considered well off or rich. So in a way, to desire a man's ox or donkey, he was coveting the man's wealth.
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Post by fixit on Aug 13, 2021 16:06:32 GMT -5
I'll leave it at this, as I think we are to ships passing in the night beginning to argue off the point becoming personal which was never my intent or point. I should have worded my initial post better sorry. Your "neighbor" is not just the guy next door. Yeah, I get that "your neighbor" is pretty much anyone you come into contact with. I appreciate that its a sin to like or want someone else's Ferrari for example, which is a bit sad, because wanting what someone else has is great motivation to work hard and get one for yourself, whatever it may be. I'm OK with you chuck, I think you're a cool guy. I think "covet" in this context would not be to discourage anyone from working hard to achieve what your neighbour has. It's more about being grumpy with your neighbour for what he possesses and being jealous of him. But you knew that.
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Post by mrdobalina on Aug 13, 2021 16:11:06 GMT -5
I own my neighbors house, how does that work for me? I'm not sure what they were up to in those days making rules regarding coveting ox & donkey, the wife part makes sense. The persons who had many oxen and donkeys were considered wealthy. Stock was how men were considered well off or rich. So in a way, to desire a man's ox or donkey, he was coveting the man's wealth. I come from a country where we are frequently falsley accused by the neighboring country of getting into the back of our sheep, so you can see what I thought these guys were up to with the oxen.
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 13, 2021 18:00:58 GMT -5
The persons who had many oxen and donkeys were considered wealthy. Stock was how men were considered well off or rich. So in a way, to desire a man's ox or donkey, he was coveting the man's wealth. I come from a country where we are frequently falsley accused by the neighboring country of getting into the back of our sheep, so you can see what I thought these guys were up to with the oxen. I well recall the old Aussie group, the Seekers song, “I’ll never find another Ewe”
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Post by verna on Aug 13, 2021 19:46:24 GMT -5
Hmm - sounds from this that the concept is fashioned after a human tradition. No? Very much the opposite. How so?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Aug 14, 2021 3:14:04 GMT -5
I own my neighbors house, how does that work for me? I'm not sure what they were up to in those days making rules regarding coveting ox & donkey, the wife part makes sense. The persons who had many oxen and donkeys were considered wealthy. Stock was how men were considered well off or rich. So in a way, to desire a man's ox or donkey, he was coveting the man's wealth. Women were also considered chattels alongside the man's oxen and donkeys. How many wives would a wealthy Hebrew have?
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 14, 2021 19:30:32 GMT -5
The persons who had many oxen and donkeys were considered wealthy. Stock was how men were considered well off or rich. So in a way, to desire a man's ox or donkey, he was coveting the man's wealth. Women were also considered chattels alongside the man's oxen and donkeys. How many wives would a wealthy Hebrew have? As many as he could buy or steal.
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Post by rejoicing on Aug 15, 2021 20:39:07 GMT -5
Concept was first, then mankind made it tradition.
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Post by rejoicing on Aug 15, 2021 20:42:20 GMT -5
The persons who had many oxen and donkeys were considered wealthy. Stock was how men were considered well off or rich. So in a way, to desire a man's ox or donkey, he was coveting the man's wealth. Women were also considered chattels alongside the man's oxen and donkeys. How many wives would a wealthy Hebrew have? Job obviously had only one. She told him to curse God and die. But I'm sure she lived to regret that because they became even richer and she had another litter of kids.
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Post by verna on Aug 15, 2021 23:07:23 GMT -5
Concept was first, then mankind made it tradition. I wonder. Wish I was more knowledgeable but it sure sounds to me like a human concept to me. I know we often write our own experiences into our concepts and that is what I suspect happened. But no evidence so I will not comment more. Interested in learning more though.
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