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Post by nathan on Jan 7, 2021 17:31:44 GMT -5
Keep that in mind Nathan. God will judge everyone. Your denial and excuses will not save you. Relating one's experience of abuse is not an excuse, but fact. ** Many of you EXES will get much bigger punishment than the atheists in the day of judgment. I have been reading in Hebrews those who trampled/disobeyed the Old Testament law of Moses will get a great beaten in the judgment day but those who rejected Jesus New Testament covenant and teachings will get the worse beaten than the rest of sinners. I Was one of the few 2x2s who alerted and inform the ministry and church about CSA, how to deal with it in the year 2000. I wish they had taken our warnings seriously and deal with it back then, they would have saved many lives among the friends children.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 17:45:46 GMT -5
We are getting punishment now from sanctimonious people. Probably might be an escape from that.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jan 7, 2021 18:36:19 GMT -5
With all due respect on this one, her experience is that of a Victorian. The state of Victoria has a legacy of sect-like behaviour going back decades, and is viewed from here by many friends in NZ has being extremely conservative, and somewhat strange.
Her comments on women's dress code, education, careers are not the experience of women here in NZ.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 18:48:39 GMT -5
You are so right about that one Prags. Victoria has always been very Victorian. The Overseers have always had the attitude of the original Workers, staunch and unbending. I don't know if it has changed much, our 2x2 Relatives don't have much to do with us. I do have some 2x2 Friends there who are non-exclusive and some who couldn't cope with it any longer and have walked. We have noticed a big difference in the NSW Friends, probably more like you good folks in NZ.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Jan 7, 2021 19:59:21 GMT -5
I am good with that . I have held myself accountable and will except that to happen . Man , what haven’t you done ? President ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 20:30:25 GMT -5
Another good interview with Jessica Baker on leaving the 2x2's. Bit long 1 hour 25 minutes, but if you have time worth watching. Gives 2x2's understanding why some people choose to leave. You are in charge of your own actions, we don't have to conform to any belief system. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SWs6T0YzRo&t=215s
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Post by fred on Jan 7, 2021 20:32:50 GMT -5
Pragmatic is correct in saying that Vic is very conservative. NSW is similar, with circumstances just as bad due to a series of very poor leaderships. In the matter of doctrine, the one true way idea still persists.
Having grown up in the 50's- 70's much of what she has to say rings true to that era. However, since the turn of the century much has changed, especially in the world of education and of the 'emancipation' of women. It is normal now for women to gain degrees and to enter a successful career. Marrying outside the fellowship is still frowned upon but folks do not face the same harsh restrictions as before.
Among the workers there are accountants, dentists, lawyers, teachers, a divorcee, nurses etc. A groundswell of opinion saw a recent overseer removed, something which could never have happened before.
Young people mostly observe the same life celebrations as in the 'world', weddings, significant birthdays etc. It is quite normal for many folk to enjoy a drink, though this might be tempered by who is present!
There are still, however, some disfunctional families who like to perpetuate many of the old ways.
I feel many of Laura's perceptions and comments belong to a different era.
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jwatt
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Post by jwatt on Jan 7, 2021 20:52:18 GMT -5
Very interesting. Can relate to alot. Thanks Redback for sharing and of course thanks to Laura.
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Post by openingact34 on Jan 7, 2021 21:06:08 GMT -5
With all due respect on this one, her experience is that of a Victorian. The state of Victoria has a legacy of sect-like behaviour going back decades, and is viewed from here by many friends in NZ has being extremely conservative, and somewhat strange.
Her comments on women's dress code, education, careers are not the experience of women here in NZ.
It's funny. Laura's experience aligns so well with many other places...USA, Canada, Ireland, Latin America. It is almost as if the workers are right when they say that the Truth is the same the world over. Maybe those who tell tales of no rules, sports, music, and other worldliness have never experienced God's Kingdom at all. Either seeking to gaslight Laura or else have found themselves in a wicked and faithless area where the Truth is not upheld.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2021 21:07:48 GMT -5
I agree with your post Fred, that is the way our 2x2 Friends in NSW behave. But I am not sure about Victoria as both Prags and yourself have said they have always been very conservative. Maybe a legacy from the Bill Carroll era, he was strict and conservative. But not always, i.e. Children's meetings at Convention. We lived there for 39 years, 41 in NSW. We have noticed the difference between the two states.
All the good 2x2 TMB members don't post much anymore, would be good to hear their take on it.
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Post by bfvernon on Jan 8, 2021 1:10:42 GMT -5
To the people who have tried to dismiss Laura’s story - it’s her truth. Not yours. She didn’t come on here and say rude things about you.
And ... she’s my daughter. So have some respect, and decency. She didn’t talk about many of the dreadful things we endured, so you would really be wise to be silent, and to give credit where credit is due.
Nathan - do me a favour and DO NOT POST ONE MORE WORD ON THIS THREAD.
Barbara Vernon (née Kemp, formerly McConnell)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 1:20:10 GMT -5
To the people who have tried to dismiss Laura’s story - it’s her truth. Not yours. She didn’t come on here and say rude things about you. And ... she’s my daughter. So have some respect, and decency. She didn’t talk about many of the dreadful things we endured, so you would really be wise to be silent, and to give credit where credit is due. Nathan - do me a favour and DO NOT POST ONE MORE WORD ON THIS THREAD. Barbara Vernon (née Kemp, formerly McConnell) My wife and I both watched the interview. We found ourselves nodding and saying "mmhmm" several times. Well done Laura!
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Post by nathan on Jan 8, 2021 1:27:11 GMT -5
To the people who have tried to dismiss Laura’s story - it’s her truth. Not yours. She didn’t come on here and say rude things about you. And ... she’s my daughter. So have some respect, and decency. She didn’t talk about many of the dreadful things we endured, so you would really be wise to be silent, and to give credit where credit is due. Nathan - do me a favour and DO NOT POST ONE MORE WORD ON THIS THREAD. Barbara Vernon (née Kemp, formerly McConnell) Don't worry, I will try NOT to anymore after this post... you exes have your ways with this thread, Thanks goodness many of the 2x2s don't agree with you exes side of the story, history and doctrines.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 1:48:49 GMT -5
To the people who have tried to dismiss Laura’s story - it’s her truth. Not yours. She didn’t come on here and say rude things about you. And ... she’s my daughter. So have some respect, and decency. She didn’t talk about many of the dreadful things we endured, so you would really be wise to be silent, and to give credit where credit is due. Nathan - do me a favour and DO NOT POST ONE MORE WORD ON THIS THREAD. Barbara Vernon (née Kemp, formerly McConnell) thats not how things work on a forum generally on a forum you post something and then you get positive or negative or both feedback on the material. in this case it was REDBACK who posted it for what ever reason(i suspect an agenda)and NOT your daughter. what i am wondering is if he let her know he was going to post her video that is a "critique" of 2x2ism on a 2x2ism forum where it might not be received to well...
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 8, 2021 2:00:45 GMT -5
To the people who have tried to dismiss Laura’s story - it’s her truth. Not yours. She didn’t come on here and say rude things about you. And ... she’s my daughter. So have some respect, and decency. She didn’t talk about many of the dreadful things we endured, so you would really be wise to be silent, and to give credit where credit is due. Nathan - do me a favour and DO NOT POST ONE MORE WORD ON THIS THREAD. Barbara Vernon (née Kemp, formerly McConnell) thats not how things work on a forum generally on a forum you post something and then you get positive or negative or both feedback on the material. in this case it was REDBACK who posted it for what ever reason(i suspect an agenda)and NOT your daughter. what i am wondering is if he let her know he was going to post her video on a 2x2 forum where it might not be received to well... Do we have a new monitor?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 2:05:35 GMT -5
Any organisation that wants to improve itself and address problems will encourage feedback, that is the only way to know if they are getting it right. When we were 2x2's and somebody left, tongues would wag, they were either weak, worldly, not in the Spirit, unwilling, disobedient, etc. Nobody would attempt to find out the real reason.
So I applaud those who are prepared to put themselves out there and tell the true story. We saw the changes made regarding CSA policy in Australia after the 60 Minutes episode. This information will never come from those within the Church, it can only come from those who have left.
Constructive criticism is a helpful way of giving feedback that provides specific, actionable suggestions. Rather than providing general advice, constructive criticism gives specific recommendations on how to make positive improvements. Constructive criticism is clear, to the point and easy to put into action. It should always be done without malice, the way that Ross did with the 60 Minutes story. To their credit Workers took notice, policy was adopted and an Overseer stood down. That has to make it all worthwhile.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 2:24:20 GMT -5
Wally needs to be reminded often of the statement on the home page. "New readers should not be surprised or discouraged by the tone of non-believers on the board, who are as welcome as any to post." Repeat, NON-BELIEVERS ON THE BOARD, WHO ARE AS WELCOME AS ANY TO POST.
TMB is not an exclusive Forum, where Wally and Nathan can post their version of the Gospel.
As for asking Laura for permission to post, I would say to Wally mind your own business.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 2:30:45 GMT -5
Wally needs to be reminded often of the statement on the home page. "New readers should not be surprised or discouraged by the tone of non-believers on the board, who are as welcome as any to post." Repeat, NON-BELIEVERS ON THE BOARD, WHO ARE AS WELCOME AS ANY TO POST. TMB is not an exclusive Forum, where Wally and Nathan can post their version of the Gospel. As for asking Laura for permission to post, I would say to Wally mind your own business. no one is surprised and no one has said anyone can't post here regardless of what they believe. what is being said is there may be feedback positive or negative or both. that is forum life love it or leave it...
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Post by fred on Jan 8, 2021 2:31:40 GMT -5
Yes, the class thing is still alive and well. It's usually based on ability to contribute to the workers coffers, the provision in the house for workers, so things like private rooms, spare car etc, usually bring 'privileges'. I also have noticed that the 'royal' families (as we refer to them), seem to get away with things that would bring judgement or censure to poor humble families. However I must admit that censure seems to be rare now, but judgement and behind the back gossip still goes on.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 2:47:01 GMT -5
I am well aware how Forums work. You expect both positive and negative feedback, that is good, normal debate.
But I do not regard calling people liars as feedback. I find it downright rude. I remember a Worker who stayed in our home a lot and he drilled into us, never call anybody a liar. Have never forgotten that.
Wally and Nathan do it all the time and it must stop.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 3:04:42 GMT -5
I am well aware how Forums work. You expect both positive and negative feedback, that is good, normal debate. But I do not regard calling people liars as feedback. I find it downright rude. I remember a Worker who stayed in our home a lot and he drilled into us, never call anybody a liar. Have never forgotten that. Wally and Nathan do it all the time and it must stop. hmmm i've been called a liar or insinuated that i was a number of times on TMB and never heard a peep out of you i'd say your powers of observation are rather selective. Christ and Paul used the word a couple times or so. why should we be any different? solution? stick to the truth and you wont have to worry about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 3:37:27 GMT -5
Goodnight Wally time for me to go. I always try to have 10 hours sleep at night, 2 hours in the afternoon. I always wonder because every time I log on you are there. There is a time difference between us, I cannot work out when you sleep. My Doctor tells me to have at least 10 hours,and at least 4 hours of deep sleep to manufacture Endorphins that are needed for good health. Just a helpful Goodnight tip Wally and it is the truth.
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Post by Dan on Jan 8, 2021 3:42:23 GMT -5
Another good interview with Jessica Baker on leaving the 2x2's. Bit long 1 hour 25 minutes, but if you have time worth watching. Gives 2x2's understanding why some people choose to leave. You are in charge of your own actions, we don't have to conform to any belief system. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SWs6T0YzRo&t=215s
I enjoyed both video's, thanks for posting them... Lots of confusion out there, so hearing both those girls experiences and feelings was enlightening.
I had some similar observations prior to leaving, didn't understand why it was hard to profess with all the rules and restrictions, especially when Jesus said his yoke was easy and his burden was light.
Never understood why divorcee's were not allowed to take part either (if they re-married). Jesus said there was just one unforgivable sin, and that wasn't it.. What did he tell the adulteress, "Neither do I condemn thee".
Sometimes a church just takes one verse and runs with it, I think they miss the big picture when they focus on superficial things like dress codes etc especially when Jesus himself never mentioned it.
And I think they emulate the Amish with the "come out from among them and be separate". There's a difference in not being all caught up in worldly affairs and hiding from the world, Jesus certainly never did that.. jmo
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Post by Dan on Jan 8, 2021 4:07:44 GMT -5
Goodnight Wally time for me to go. I always try to have 10 hours sleep at night, 2 hours in the afternoon. I always wonder because every time I log on you are there. There is a time difference between us, I cannot work out when you sleep. My Doctor tells me to have at least 10 hours,and at least 4 hours of deep sleep to manufacture Endorphins that are needed for good health. Just a helpful Goodnight tip Wally and it is the truth.
Wow, I generally get about 4 hours of sleep a night with nightmares ... Perhaps that's why I need to really focus just to put together a constructive sentence
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 14:51:39 GMT -5
Goodnight Wally time for me to go. I always try to have 10 hours sleep at night, 2 hours in the afternoon. I always wonder because every time I log on you are there. There is a time difference between us, I cannot work out when you sleep. My Doctor tells me to have at least 10 hours,and at least 4 hours of deep sleep to manufacture Endorphins that are needed for good health. Just a helpful Goodnight tip Wally and it is the truth. i use the "keep me logged on" feature of TMB(its on your login page) i hate going through the login process as i am on a number of forums and websites. i get about 6 hours every night and on weekends 8-10...all good here...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 15:04:01 GMT -5
Another good interview with Jessica Baker on leaving the 2x2's. Bit long 1 hour 25 minutes, but if you have time worth watching. Gives 2x2's understanding why some people choose to leave. You are in charge of your own actions, we don't have to conform to any belief system. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SWs6T0YzRo&t=215s
I enjoyed both video's, thanks for posting them... Lots of confusion out there, so hearing both those girls experiences and feelings was enlightening.
I had some similar observations prior to leaving, didn't understand why it was hard to profess with all the rules and restrictions, especially when Jesus said his yoke was easy and his burden was light.
Never understood why divorcee's were not allowed to take part either (if they re-married). Jesus said there was just one unforgivable sin, and that wasn't it.. What did he tell the adulteress, "Neither do I condemn thee".
Sometimes a church just takes one verse and runs with it, I think they miss the big picture when they focus on superficial things like dress codes etc especially when Jesus himself never mentioned it.
And I think they emulate the Amish with the "come out from among them and be separate". There's a difference in not being all caught up in worldly affairs and hiding from the world, Jesus certainly never did that.. jmo
you forgot the rest of that verse: Joh_8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. one can't very well seek and get forgiveness if they turn around and go right back to do the same sin(adultery remarriage). yes its well recognized that we will still do sin and all fall short and have to seek his forgiveness everyday but adultery remarriage takes that to a new level. for example if a murder is forgiven and then yet everyday commits another murder we would soon say they are not really repenting and are not really forgiven.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 15:17:08 GMT -5
No problems with remarriage. "A slice off a cut loaf is never missed".
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Post by nathan on Jan 8, 2021 15:51:19 GMT -5
I enjoyed both video's, thanks for posting them... Lots of confusion out there, so hearing both those girls experiences and feelings was enlightening.
I had some similar observations prior to leaving, didn't understand why it was hard to profess with all the rules and restrictions, especially when Jesus said his yoke was easy and his burden was light.
Never understood why divorcee's were not allowed to take part either (if they re-married). Jesus said there was just one unforgivable sin, and that wasn't it.. What did he tell the adulteress, "Neither do I condemn thee".
Sometimes a church just takes one verse and runs with it, I think they miss the big picture when they focus on superficial things like dress codes etc especially when Jesus himself never mentioned it.
And I think they emulate the Amish with the "come out from among them and be separate". There's a difference in not being all caught up in worldly affairs and hiding from the world, Jesus certainly never did that.. jmo
you forgot the rest of that verse: Joh_8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. one can't very well seek and get forgiveness if they turn around and go right back to do the same sin(adultery remarriage). yes its well recognized that we will still do sin and all fall short and have to seek his forgiveness everyday but adultery remarriage takes that to a new level. for example if a murder is forgiven and then yet everyday commits another murder we would soon say they are not really repenting and are not really forgiven. *** I agree with you Wally. However, if they asked God to forgive their Adultery sin and He forgave them, who are the workers to tell them they can't take parts in praising Him every Sunday morning? Did God tell families to split up or the workers rules for remarriage with little children involved. Tell them to go to God and ask God and Christ forgiveness and leave that between them and God. The Workers need to stay out of it and try NOT to play God. It's God who forgives and restores His Spirit to them NOT the workers. I have seen those who God has forgiven have beautiful broken, humble spirits in the Sunday morning meetings.
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