Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 15:16:48 GMT -5
Great article posted by Xna. Sorts it out for us.
Thought this paragraph sums it up pretty much.
The fact that humanism can at once be both religious and secular presents a paradox of course, but not the only such paradox. Another is that both Religious and Secular Humanism place reason above faith, usually to the point of eschewing faith altogether. The dichotomy between reason and faith is often given emphasis in humanism, with humanists taking their stand on the side of reason. Because of this, Religious Humanism should not be seen as an alternative faith, but rather as an alternative way of being religious
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 14, 2021 15:40:53 GMT -5
Great article posted by Xna. Sorts it out for us. Thought this paragraph sums it up pretty much. The fact that humanism can at once be both religious and secular presents a paradox of course, but not the only such paradox. Another is that both Religious and Secular Humanism place reason above faith, usually to the point of eschewing faith altogether. The dichotomy between reason and faith is often given emphasis in humanism, with humanists taking their stand on the side of reason. Because of this, Religious Humanism should not be seen as an alternative faith, but rather as an alternative way of being religious I identify with these labels; EX-2x2, Atheist, Secular Humanist, and Pragmatist. @redback What labels best fit your ideas?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 15:46:59 GMT -5
I would define myself as Independent, Agnostic, Christian Humanist.
|
|
|
Humanism.
Jan 14, 2021 15:59:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by chuck on Jan 14, 2021 15:59:00 GMT -5
Dr. Fauci is a Humanist who is helping mankind, and his much more famous boss Dr. Francis Collins is a Christian. My point was, the goods works of one to help other is without any requirement to believe in a supernatural. So far I can't find one good thing that a person can do for another that can not also be done without religion. That is not to diminish the good works done in the name of religion. I only point out that the supernatural ingredient is not required in the mix to do good. that is like what i've been saying till i have been blue in the face its a (good without God) atheistic movement or belief system... Is God good?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 16:09:02 GMT -5
Christian humanism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Historically, major forces shaping the development of Christian humanism was the Christian doctrine that God, in the person of Jesus, became human in order to redeem humanity, and the further injunction for the participating human collective (the church) to act out the life of Christ. Many of these ideas had emerged among the patristics, and would develop into Christian humanism in the late 15th century, through which the ideals of "common humanity, universal reason, freedom, personhood, human rights, human emancipation and progress, and indeed the very notion of secularity (describing the present saeculum preserved by God until Christ’s return) are literally unthinkable without their Christian humanistic roots.Though there is a common association of humanism with agnosticism and atheism in popular culture, this association developed in the 20th century and non-humanistic forms of agnosticism and atheism have long existed. like i have said before you can try and dress it up or camouflage it anyway you want(many will to rationalize joining and promoting it)but putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change that at the end of the day its still a pig...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 16:14:15 GMT -5
that is like what i've been saying till i have been blue in the face its a (good without God) atheistic movement or belief system... Humanism isn't a belief system like a religion. "Secular humanism is often simply referred to as Humanism. It embraces human reason, secular ethics, and philosophical naturalism while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, and superstition as the basis of morality and decision making." There are Religious Humanists, but I haven't met one who uses that label. You are the first I have seen that uses the label "atheistic Humanist" but it's accurate for most Humanists. Humanists which have come out of religious theism are proud to identify with the label atheist. It's kinda like "organic natural food" is to Humanism as "extra chemicals processed food" is to Theism. What you see is what you get. There are no ghosts in the Humanist machine. Humanists don't refer to theists as "Supernaturalist Theists" even though it would be an accurate label. i do agree it might not be "like" a religion(it really can't with the (good without God premise) but in an earlier post you did put up a link that stated it was a "belief system" and i also searched and found a link that stated the same thing... i didn't know however that the US gov't looks at it as a religion(even though its clearly a religious alternative) that is a bit interesting. i wonder if they will try to change that at some point or use it as a vehicle to ensnare others into their numbers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 16:18:12 GMT -5
Great article posted by Xna. Sorts it out for us. Thought this paragraph sums it up pretty much. The fact that humanism can at once be both religious and secular presents a paradox of course, but not the only such paradox. Another is that both Religious and Secular Humanism place reason above faith, usually to the point of eschewing faith altogether. The dichotomy between reason and faith is often given emphasis in humanism, with humanists taking their stand on the side of reason. Because of this, Religious Humanism should not be seen as an alternative faith, but rather as an alternative way of being religious "as well as" "instead of" "adjunct to" "alternative" doesn't change what atheistic humanism is even with all the modifiers added to make it more palatable...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 16:31:19 GMT -5
that is like what i've been saying till i have been blue in the face its a (good without God) atheistic movement or belief system... Is God good? Yes God is the best source of "good" in this world man however is NOT and with atheistic humanism it has declared that man/humanity is the source of/determines what is moral(good)instead of any gods(that would include our God)
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 14, 2021 16:34:10 GMT -5
Humanism isn't a belief system like a religion. "Secular humanism is often simply referred to as Humanism. It embraces human reason, secular ethics, and philosophical naturalism while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, and superstition as the basis of morality and decision making." There are Religious Humanists, but I haven't met one who uses that label. You are the first I have seen that uses the label "atheistic Humanist" but it's accurate for most Humanists. Humanists which have come out of religious theism are proud to identify with the label atheist. It's kinda like "organic natural food" is to Humanism as "extra chemicals processed food" is to Theism. What you see is what you get. There are no ghosts in the Humanist machine. Humanists don't refer to theists as "Supernaturalist Theists" even though it would be an accurate label. i do agree it might not be "like" a religion(it really can't with the good without God premise) but in an earlier post you did put up a link that stated it was a "belief system" and i also searched and found a link that stated the same thing...The DOJ recognizes Humanism as a belief. You can have Humanist on your grave marker in a military cemetery. They put Humanism in their "religion box" but this comes from a great generalization. I don't see Secular Humanism as a belief system. It's an approach, like the Socratic Method is an approach used to teach by asking questions vs. the approach of rote learning. In Secular Humanism a "belief" is true after it is confirmed by evidence. A "belief" is a very low level of knowing in Secular Humanism, but in religion belief is at a highest level. Not all beliefs, or belief systems are religious. " Mutually supportive beliefs may form belief systems, which may be religious, philosophical or ideological.Religions are belief systems that relate humanity to spirituality. "
|
|
|
Humanism.
Jan 14, 2021 16:39:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by chuck on Jan 14, 2021 16:39:19 GMT -5
Weigh out twenty shekels of food to eat each day and eat it at set times.Also measure out a sixth of a hin of water and drink it at set times.Eat the food as you would a loaf of barley bread; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel.”The Lord said, “In this way the people of Israel will eat defiled food among the nations where I will drive them.” - Ezekiel 4:10-13 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel4:10-13&version=NIVThis would have to be my favourite sermon in the OT. Is your life like a chocolate covered 😁 Is your belief( Christianity, 2x2ism, Islam, Atheism ect) Nice on the outside, but Nasty on the inside. Is your belief just a proclamation that tastes like Sh#$
|
|
|
Humanism.
Jan 14, 2021 16:49:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by chuck on Jan 14, 2021 16:49:27 GMT -5
Yes God is the best source of "good" in this world man however is NOT and with atheistic humanism it has declared that man/humanity is the source of/determines what is moral(good)instead of any gods(that would include our God) Is God Good?, not is God the source of good. But on that matter what are the other sources of Good?.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 16:54:02 GMT -5
Yes God is the best source of "good" in this world man however is NOT and with atheistic humanism it has declared that man/humanity is the source of/determines what is moral(good)instead of any gods(that would include our God) Is God Good?, not is God the source of good. But on that matter what are the other sources of Good?. did you not see the YES? its like your not even trying anymore. anything else is just a cheap knock off at best and only deals with the NOW. Christ and his teachings deal with the NOW and the FUTURE.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 14, 2021 17:29:02 GMT -5
Is God Good?, not is God the source of good. But on that matter what are the other sources of Good?. did you not see the YES? its like your not even trying anymore. anything else is just a cheap knock off at best and only deals with the NOW. Christ and his teachings deal with the NOW and the FUTURE. Of course I saw the yes, but I wanted to clarify your answer so you wouldn't accuse me of "word games" because your answer wasn't really what I asked. So If God is Good, Anyone that does Good knows God. So your comment "Good without God" is a oxymoron. But if there are other sources of good, what are they?.
|
|
|
Post by joanna on Jan 14, 2021 17:29:10 GMT -5
“Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance that affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. Humanism stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethics based on human and other natural values in a spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. Humanism is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality.”
— The Minimum Statement on Humanism, Humanists International
Christian Humanism impresses as being an oxymoron?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 17:41:19 GMT -5
did you not see the YES? its like your not even trying anymore. anything else is just a cheap knock off at best and only deals with the NOW. Christ and his teachings deal with the NOW and the FUTURE. So If God is Good, Anyone that does Good knows God. So your comment "Good without God" is a oxymoron. no they don't they in the case of atheistic humanism it rejects God or gods that is not even close to "knowing" him. "good without God" was even a logo on at least one atheistic humanist website so if you want to call them morons go ahead i wont stop you...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 17:53:03 GMT -5
Although religion and morality reflect different values, they are deeply intertwined for most individuals. In many cases, a person's moral principles are grounded in religious commitments. In other cases, people find the source of morality outside of religion, such as the inherent value of all human beings.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 14, 2021 17:56:31 GMT -5
So If God is Good, Anyone that does Good knows God. So your comment "Good without God" is a oxymoron. no they don't they in the case of atheistic humanism it rejects God or gods that is not even close to "knowing" him. "good without God" was even a logo on at least one atheistic humanist website so if you want to call them morons go ahead i wont stop you... Yes, they reject the god or the idea of a god that you present them or that are prsent to them. He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVSo back to your oxymoron. Good without god is a oxymoron.
|
|
|
Post by openingact34 on Jan 14, 2021 18:30:08 GMT -5
Putting the “religious “ aspect of being “right “ with God aside , for now Surely , though , you don’t view atheists as “bad” people , and that they cannot be or do “good” without God ? Surely ? Alvin A study found that atheists are distrusted as much as rapists. web.archive.org/web/20121010002133/http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-12-10/religion-atheism/51777612/1The Bible promotes the hatred of atheists The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. - Psalm 14 Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord? And do I not loathe those who rise up against you? I hate them with complete hatred; I count them my enemies. - Psalm 139
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jan 14, 2021 18:34:55 GMT -5
Putting the “religious “ aspect of being “right “ with God aside , for now Surely , though , you don’t view atheists as “bad” people , and that they cannot be or do “good” without God ? Surely ? Alvin A study found that atheists are distrusted as much as rapists. web.archive.org/web/20121010002133/http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-12-10/religion-atheism/51777612/1The Bible promotes the hatred of atheists The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. - Psalm 14 Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord? And do I not loathe those who rise up against you? I hate them with complete hatred; I count them my enemies. - Psalm 139 I wonder if the Psalmist had been to Guam?
|
|
|
Post by joanna on Jan 14, 2021 18:35:01 GMT -5
@redback Hello Redback I agree with you that religion and morality are deeply intertwined for most people however this has repeatedly proven to be problematic. The diversity in religious belief imposes a myriad of moral standards. The intangible and unevidenced nature of faith based belief compounds the complexity of these moral standards. Christians who opposes abortion and relies upon the Christian bible as their source of morality may justify the murder of medical staff who provide abortion. Reading here informs of those who promote violence from their anti-abortionist stance: About the "Army of God"History has evidenced many terrible acts of violence enacted by persons who can cite scripture sourced from their faith's text to justify that they are acting in the name of their god. Muslims believe that the quran is the word of Allah (the god of Abraham) and must not be altered. "Anyone seeking support for armed jihad in the name of Allah will find ample support in the passages in the Quran and Hadith that relate to Mohammed’s Medina period. For example, Q4:95 states, “Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home).” Q8:60 advises Muslims “to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know.” Islam is a religion of violenceMorality in an unstable and plastic concept when intertwined with religion / a faith belief. Humanism replaces that airy-fairy and dangerous impact by applying a rational and evidenced framework for ethical standards which are intended to benefit all. This framework cannot be undermined by subjective interpretations of scriptural texts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 18:37:45 GMT -5
no they don't they in the case of atheistic humanism it rejects God or gods that is not even close to "knowing" him. "good without God" was even a logo on at least one atheistic humanist website so if you want to call them morons go ahead i wont stop you... Yes, they reject the god or the idea of a god that you present them or that are prsent to them. He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVSo back to your oxymoron. Good without god is a oxymoron. "good without God" is not mine an atheistic humanist would admit to such. its THEIR logo on at least one site its also their primary premise and falls under their definition of agency. atheistic humanism rejects God or gods that is not even close to "knowing" him no matter what they do or think they are doing. you should stop quoting scripture you don't know what you are doing...
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2021 19:27:02 GMT -5
I wonder if the Psalmist had been to Guam? That would be covered by the Book of Mormon.
|
|
|
Post by chuck on Jan 15, 2021 2:04:55 GMT -5
Yes, they reject the god or the idea of a god that you present them or that are prsent to them. He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVSo back to your oxymoron. Good without god is a oxymoron. "good without God" is not mine an atheistic humanist would admit to such. its THEIR logo on at least one site its also their primary premise and falls under their definition of agency. atheistic humanism rejects God or gods that is not even close to "knowing" him no matter what they do or think they are doing. you should stop quoting scripture you don't know what you are doing... Wally Good is God. He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVWhat you are saying is Atheists cant be good like you. That is the original sin wally, you cannot be the master of good and evil. That is not what it is to know God. You are setting the standard. The serpent sucked you in good. As usual, you'll never admit it but It's always about you and your standards and if others measure up to your standards. Waiting for the Holy spirit response.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2021 3:06:15 GMT -5
"good without God" is not mine an atheistic humanist would admit to such. its THEIR logo on at least one site its also their primary premise and falls under their definition of agency. atheistic humanism rejects God or gods that is not even close to "knowing" him no matter what they do or think they are doing. you should stop quoting scripture you don't know what you are doing... Wally Good is God. He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah22:16&version=NIVWhat you are saying is Atheists cant be good like you. That is the original sin wally, you cannot be the master of good and evil. That is not what it is to know God. You are setting the standard. The serpent sucked you in good. As usual, you'll never admit it but It's always about you and your standards and if others measure up to your standards. Waiting for the Holy spirit repsonse. incorrect God IS good. if good IS God then we can become a god ourselves(which is similar to the good without God premise they've replace God deciding what is right or wrong and how to treat others with themselves doing it)that is pretty egotistical and arrogant if you ask me... nope, what i am saying is that Atheistic humanists are trying to claim morality is their own idea not Gods(most of their principles are stolen from Christ)it makes it more palatable to fall for...good without God thats not original sin this is: Original sin is the Christian doctrine that humans inherit a tainted nature and a proclivity to sin through the fact of birth.....whatever you are babbling is corrupt as it gets... wrong again, i've not set any standard of my own. everything i apply or adhere to comes from God/Christ and the Holy Spirits written word...i'm not an atheistic humanist to try and make standards they do things like that not me... wrong again, its never been about me its always been about what God/Christ and the Holy Spirit have said... i will admit though that your corrupt views are very well rehearsed... good try though atheist God is watching
|
|
|
Post by mountain on Jan 15, 2021 5:22:22 GMT -5
I wonder if the Psalmist had been to Guam? That would be covered by the Book of Mormon. Thanks Bob. I must get my hand on a copy. This Nathan-Guam thing is becoming rather suspicious!
|
|