|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2021 1:40:27 GMT -5
Right time to try Humanism. From an article by Humanists for Biden-Harris. The humanist community, like all others, is diverse. However, many of us share a number of goals: We support church/state separation; we respect science and listen to scientists; we want religious freedom for all Americans rather than only for a privileged few; we want a society committed to equity; and we want public policy that is rooted in facts and evidence. Beyond that, because we believe this is the only life we are guaranteed, we stand for racial, social, environmental, and economic justice for all Americans, now. There is no room for bigotry of any kind in this country. These are all values that the Biden-Harris campaign stands for as well. and so like clockwork we slide right down crap mountain into atheistic humanism...good luck everyone its gonna be a rough ride... A lot of people agree with you.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2021 1:42:52 GMT -5
Ok, if you differentiate ATHEISTIC humanism, from humanism, I don't qualify to "profess" in that "religion", BUT is it also a REQUIREMENT to be an atheist to be a humanist? Is that a technicallity somehow, that one is disqualified from being a humanist , and a believer in God. Would I be kicked out of that group? Alvin Alvin there is only one version of humanism and its atheistic good news though its sweeping the world and many "Christians" are falling for it... Your ideologues do indeed believe that everything that is not white ... is all black.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 1:42:53 GMT -5
there is only one version of humanism and its atheistic good news though its sweeping the world and many "Christians" are falling for it... I must have it wrong, then. I thought , humanism was intrinsic to Christian doctrine. Defining it, then , as STRICTLY atheistic, it is obviously IMPOSSIBLE for a theist or agnostic to be a humanist. That definition , then, sure shortens the long list of contributors, to what I had perceived, incorrectly, to be humanists . Guess I'm out- not eligible for another exclusive group . Alvin well the earliest reference to the word i could find was the 13th century this would have been LONG after Christianity was established that told us how to treat one another. but it didn't not really kick off until the 1800's...and then even more so around the 1950's?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2021 1:58:47 GMT -5
I must have it wrong, then. I thought , humanism was intrinsic to Christian doctrine. Defining it, then , as STRICTLY atheistic, it is obviously IMPOSSIBLE for a theist or agnostic to be a humanist. That definition , then, sure shortens the long list of contributors, to what I had perceived, incorrectly, to be humanists . Guess I'm out- not eligible for another exclusive group . Alvin well the earliest reference to the word i could find was the 13th century this would have been LONG after Christianity was established that told us how to treat one another. but it didn't not really kick off until the 1800's...and then even more so around the 1950's? What are your qualifications for doing historical research?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 2:01:20 GMT -5
well the earliest reference to the word i could find was the 13th century this would have been LONG after Christianity was established that told us how to treat one another. but it didn't not really kick off until the 1800's...and then even more so around the 1950's? What are your qualifications for doing historical research? if people had waited for "qualifications" for doing anything we would still be in the stone age...we all know what i think of idjitcation right?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2021 2:05:42 GMT -5
What are your qualifications for doing historical research? if people had waited for "qualifications" for doing anything we would still be in the stone age...we all know what i think of idjitcation right? Yes. We recognize your idjitcation as a contemporary radicalization.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 2:09:35 GMT -5
if people had waited for "qualifications" for doing anything we would still be in the stone age...we all know what i think of idjitcation right? Yes. We recognize your idjitcation as a contemporary radicalization. nothing radical about finding out things for yourself....
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 14, 2021 2:10:29 GMT -5
Yes. We recognize your idjitcation as a contemporary radicalization. nothing radical about finding out things for yourself.... Of course not. But you don't have to hang out with kids who eat worms.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 2:14:42 GMT -5
nothing radical about finding out things for yourself.... Of course not. But you don't have to hang out with kids who eat worms. i watched a kid eat a worm once in my kindergarten idjitcation class. he actually got it down, then threw up like Niagara falls about 2 minutes later....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 2:23:44 GMT -5
Humanism is compatible with atheism and agnosticism, but being atheist or agnostic does not automatically make one a humanist. ... Many Humanists address ethics from the point of view of ethical naturalism, and some support an actual science of morality.
It is quite wrong to call it Atheistic Humanism. Sure Atheists believe in Humanism, that is why they are kinder caring people. But many other people embrace Humanism, it is universal, I know 2x2's who practice it in their lives.
it is wrong to suggest links that don't exist, displays ignorance.
If everyone could practice a bit of empathy each day, imagine the possibilities for building bridges and finding solutions.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 14, 2021 2:37:27 GMT -5
that is a very simplistic summary and inaccurate view of Christianity. i can't speak that much for islam (nor would i want to) but they would probably say the same. Jesus is God.
Allah is God but the Muslim and the humanist do NOT understand that, yet. Allah God the Christ/Son will come back to establish His ETERNAL kingdom on earth with His people.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 2:49:47 GMT -5
i never said that atheist. there is however a right way and a wrong way to do things. the ends(grace)do not justify the means(atheistic humanism).. He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the Lord. - Jeremiah 22:16 <<< you are gonna have problems here atheistic humanism does not recognize God nor does it do anything on his behalf...so no they don't know him... Atheism doesn't recognise your God(yourself, 2x2ism, missions ect), or a religions God. It does recognise defending the cause of the poor and the needy, that is knowing God. It just doesn't have Pagan name applied to it and does not require religiosity or the imagery painted by religion of what God is. I would suggest they are closer to God than you..... I never knew you..... maybe its you just don't understand atheism or atheistic humanism? which yes, seems impossible cause you speak and act like one. i can say with total confidence there will be no (closer to God)atheists in heaven however i will admit that there will be some FORMER atheists in heaven that turned it around before their respective ends. how do i know? read it here: Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and ladymongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 2:57:31 GMT -5
Humanism is compatible with atheism and agnosticism, but being atheist or agnostic does not automatically make one a humanist. ... Many Humanists address ethics from the point of view of ethical naturalism, and some support an actual science of morality. It is quite wrong to call it Atheistic Humanism. Sure Atheists believe in Humanism, that is why they are kinder caring people. But many other people embrace Humanism, it is universal, I know 2x2's who practice it in their lives. it is wrong to suggest links that don't exist, displays ignorance. If everyone could practice a bit of empathy each day, imagine the possibilities for building bridges and finding solutions. well that is not true(not unusual for you)the WHOLE premise starts out with(good without God)they call it agency on most sites. ethical naturalism is just another attempt to disguise(good without God)...its true atheistic humanism is sweeping the world and many Christians are embracing it(falling for it)....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 2:59:07 GMT -5
It is interesting that ardent believers create links. I find it strange that they never link their faith to Martin Luther.
Protestantism began in Germany in 1517, when Martin Luther published his Ninety-five Theses as a reaction against abuses in the sale of indulgences by the Catholic Church, which purported to offer the remission of the temporal punishment of sins to their purchasers.
They like to be selective about origins.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 3:10:12 GMT -5
It is interesting that ardent believers create links. I find it strange that they never link their faith to Martin Luther. Protestantism began in Germany in 1517, when Martin Luther published his Ninety-five Theses as a reaction against abuses in the sale of indulgences by the Catholic Church, which purported to offer the remission of the temporal punishment of sins to their purchasers. They like to be selective about origins. hmmmm not so sure i see the "link" between denying or ignoring that martin luther was the founder of protestantism(i never have, although its never really come up. that would be the ignoring part)we ALL were taught about martin luther in school. and someone denying or ignoring that humanism is atheistic. the denier of martin still believes in God, but the denier of God, well, denies God...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 3:15:21 GMT -5
Humanists do not automatically deny God. That is an indisputable fact.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 3:32:11 GMT -5
Humanists do not automatically deny God. That is an indisputable fact. atheistic humanism is built on the premise(good without God) <<<indisputable fact atheistic humanism is sweeping the world and many "Christians/Theists" are falling for it <<<indisputable fact atheistic humanism doesn't change its premise for anyone but Christians/Theists can/have/will change for the atheistic worldview <<<indisputable fact which brings up a very appropriate quote: “When you dance with the devil, the devil doesn't change. The devil changes you.” -Amanda hocking
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 4:10:57 GMT -5
The stubborn believer won't be talked out of his view, and is unyielding or resistant to reasonable persuasion.He clings to the belief, stubbornly.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 4:27:02 GMT -5
The stubborn believer won't be talked out of his view, and is unyielding or resistant to reasonable persuasion.He clings to the belief, stubbornly. i suppose that's payback for the bitter, unwilling, weak, confused, comments made to ex's and atheists from us 2x2's. if that is the trade off i'll take it....
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 14, 2021 9:28:53 GMT -5
MANY MANY MANY life saving and helpful discoveries for humanity that we benefit from in so many ways and take so for granted were done by HANDS of Christians, MUslims, Jews, humanists, theists , atheists , etc etc etc people of every stripe, and to portray any group of humanity as NOT being contributors is ignorant, at best. Alvin Dr. Fauci is a Humanist who is helping mankind, and his much more famous boss Dr. Francis Collins is a Christian. My point was, the goods works of one to help other is without any requirement to believe in a supernatural. So far I can't find one good thing that a person can do for another that can not also be done without religion. That is not to diminish the good works done in the name of religion. I only point out that the supernatural ingredient is not required in the mix to do good.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 12:04:06 GMT -5
there is only one version of humanism and its atheistic good news though its sweeping the world and many "Christians" are falling for it... Should I , identifying as a “Christian “ be AGAINST humanism ? Is a person , like Dr Francis Collins , that Xna helpfully mentioned , dancing with the devil ? Are Christian humanists , to be condemned and not trusted , even if they have and are saving lives ? Does the devil get the credit for their humanism then ? Alvin Edit - I appreciated this “preachers” message about why he considers Jesus a humanist. 1. He taught people to critically analyze the religious dogmas of their day. He challenged the sacrosanct with boldness. 2. He brutally critiqued the purity culture being pushed by his own religion, judging it superficial and distracting from the things that really matter 3 He collapsed the vertical dimension of piety into the horizontal, redefining virtue in terms of how you treat your fellow human beings. 4 He denounced nationalism and tribalism in no uncertain terms, telling story after story commending people for reaching out to those who are different from them. 5 He denounced social injustice and greed, calling on the wealthy and powerful to use their privilege to benefit others www.google.ca/amp/s/www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2016/10/09/five-times-when-jesus-sounded-like-a-humanist/amp/no christian should be involved in atheistic humanism it won't end well. MANY people try(including some Christians and even here on TMB) to retro-actively apply the more modern atheistic humanism movement back to our 1st century Christ so they can rationalize it/justify it/participate in it this would be wrong and a TAD dishonest thing to do.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 12:07:08 GMT -5
MANY MANY MANY life saving and helpful discoveries for humanity that we benefit from in so many ways and take so for granted were done by HANDS of Christians, MUslims, Jews, humanists, theists , atheists , etc etc etc people of every stripe, and to portray any group of humanity as NOT being contributors is ignorant, at best. Alvin Dr. Fauci is a Humanist who is helping mankind, and his much more famous boss Dr. Francis Collins is a Christian. My point was, the goods works of one to help other is without any requirement to believe in a supernatural. So far I can't find one good thing that a person can do for another that can not also be done without religion. That is not to diminish the good works done in the name of religion. I only point out that the supernatural ingredient is not required in the mix to do good. that is like what i've been saying till i have been blue in the face its a (good without God) atheistic movement or belief system...
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 14, 2021 13:21:06 GMT -5
Dr. Fauci is a Humanist who is helping mankind, and his much more famous boss Dr. Francis Collins is a Christian. My point was, the goods works of one to help other is without any requirement to believe in a supernatural. So far I can't find one good thing that a person can do for another that can not also be done without religion. That is not to diminish the good works done in the name of religion. I only point out that the supernatural ingredient is not required in the mix to do good. that is like what i've been saying till i have been blue in the face its a (good without God) atheistic movement or belief system... Humanism isn't a belief system like a religion. "Secular humanism is often simply referred to as Humanism. It embraces human reason, secular ethics, and philosophical naturalism while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, and superstition as the basis of morality and decision making." There are Religious Humanists, but I haven't met one who uses that label. You are the first I have seen that uses the label "atheistic Humanist" but it's accurate for most Humanists. Humanists which have come out of religious theism are proud to identify with the label atheist. It's kinda like "organic natural food" is to Humanism as "extra chemicals processed food" is to Theism. What you see is what you get. There are no ghosts in the Humanist machine. Humanists don't refer to theists as "Supernaturalist Theists" even though it would be an accurate label.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Jan 14, 2021 13:24:13 GMT -5
Dr. Fauci is a Humanist who is helping mankind, and his much more famous boss Dr. Francis Collins is a Christian. My point was, the goods works of one to help other is without any requirement to believe in a supernatural. So far I can't find one good thing that a person can do for another that can not also be done without religion. That is not to diminish the good works done in the name of religion. I only point out that the supernatural ingredient is not required in the mix to do good. that is like what i've been saying till i have been blue in the face its a (good without God) atheistic movement or belief system... Is it fair to say that you agree humans can be good without (your) god and your objection is your belief that humans will 'miss out' on Christian Salvation by taking their inspiration from a non-Christian source?
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 14, 2021 14:16:08 GMT -5
If the statement “ there are no ghosts in the Humanist machine” is true ,then Wally is correct in his statement that there is NO room for a believer of any kind , in the humanism “ movement” , and only atheists allowed . Secular Humanism has no ghosts. If you are a theistic believer then you are not a Secular Humanist. You could be a theistic believer AND Humanist but you would be a Religious Humanist. Thomas Jefferson & his Thomas Jefferson Bible is an example of this. Take the good parts of the bible, remove the supernatural and that comes close to humanism. If you are a Humanist you do not need to join a Humanist group. For example I am mainly a Pragmatist (A person who is pragmatic is concerned more with matters of fact than with what could or should be. A pragmatic person's realm is results and consequences.), but I belong to no Pragmatic organized groups. I am a member of the American Humanist Association and a founding member of a local Humanist organization. We have monthly meetings with guest speakers, make community contributions, make and deliver thousands of meals, provide help for abused women shelters, have a section of the road we clean up, help build houses for the poor, etc. Most Humanist want to "do" something to make the world better and be around like minded people. You can see churches doing these same things, the difference is Humanists don't expect any reward in an afterlife for doing good. It would depend on their programming. Conscience thought is only result of chemistry? There is no evidence of anything else. Magnetic fields can change your thoughts but in the end it's chemistry at work. Mind is what the brain does. Dualism is an illustion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Humanism is not dogmatic like religion. It changes with new knowledge. Humanist Manifesto III
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 14, 2021 14:34:24 GMT -5
Interesting Thanks for clarifying., If someone would have asked me if I was a humanist , yesterday , I would have affirmed that I was sure trying to be one , thinking along the lines I had posted earlier about Jesus preaching and practicing it . Now , with those new requirements of definitions or corrections , I would be forced to say , “no ,I am not “ Disappointed , actually, not accepted but ...rules are rules a fundamentalist once told me - O well - nothing new Thanks No hard feelings Appreciate the conversation and learning Wally was way ahead in his understanding of what humanism means , than I was . I was mistaken Alvin I added a little more to my post after you posted this. I believe you could identify as a Religious Humanist but to me that doesn't make much sense. BTW Humanism is considered a religion by the US government.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 14:43:25 GMT -5
Christian humanism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Historically, major forces shaping the development of Christian humanism was the Christian doctrine that God, in the person of Jesus, became human in order to redeem humanity, and the further injunction for the participating human collective (the church) to act out the life of Christ. Many of these ideas had emerged among the patristics, and would develop into Christian humanism in the late 15th century, through which the ideals of "common humanity, universal reason, freedom, personhood, human rights, human emancipation and progress, and indeed the very notion of secularity (describing the present saeculum preserved by God until Christ’s return) are literally unthinkable without their Christian humanistic roots.Though there is a common association of humanism with agnosticism and atheism in popular culture, this association developed in the 20th century and non-humanistic forms of agnosticism and atheism have long existed.
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 14, 2021 14:50:41 GMT -5
|
|