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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 18, 2020 19:19:23 GMT -5
Slowtosee & DM Good video Just got my weed so let’s see where this goes .
Again good , positive video . Many can overcome or make it out of depression . That rocks , sorry iPod in listening to GnR
I would absolutely love not to be so deeply depressed . But there is a major part of my body missing . I was born without a thyroid gland . At 40 years old I was finally treated by a endocrinologist He started the exam and asked when my thyroid gland was removed . I said they have removed nothing . Bingo finally a explanation . DM might explain better if I go off track . Your thyroid gland controls many things in your body and brain . Dry skin , hair loss , just really weird stuff , it can affect your eyes , my body temperature and .................. Your thyroid gland talks to your pituitary gland . Mine doesn’t . I lack T4 . We have tried Cytomel but no change . So depression is heavy in my situation . My thyroid will not remain in the constant range . One day I looked at the bottles and bottles of pills I had and I knew that had to change . At one stage I was offered the electric shock treatments . Nada not happening mr psychiatric . When I was discharged I knew something had to change . I decided to try CBD (weed) . I was given a prescription and off we went . I slowly weaned from all psychiatric meds with my family doctor helping . It was a huge leap of faith . So that was about 10 prescription’s gone . As I striated (found the right amount of CBD) I was finally was not in a fog all the time . It also helped with my morphine intake . I was taking 90mg per day . I take 30 mg now . It has also helped with my benzodiazepines . I no longer take 3 Valium a day . Unfortunately this a rough time with my daughter passing that is depressing me more right now . In a perfect world it would be different .
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 18, 2020 19:42:16 GMT -5
I was semi-joking, but lets call it an unconscious sin.
Of course it makes you feel better, Dan. That was my point.
People have created all of those stories of "gods" & being "saved" (sanctified) for that exact reason, -to make themselves feel safe as in saved: as in protected from danger, harm. (in an after-life?)
The truth will set you free. Feeling better is not just the release of guilt, its deliverance from eternal death. Stories can be discredited, but the Truth is resilient, which gives it more credibility than fabricated stories.
Extract the miracles, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ, and your still left with nothing but righteousness and truth.
Of course "The truth will set you free" -but only as I said before, when the "truth" is in accordance with fact or reality! Isn't your feeling "the release of guilt," and its "deliverance from eternal death" the main part of your "feeling better?"
Besides -just trying to "Extract the miracles, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ," -from the story in the bible is NOT going to make bible stories be in accordance with fact or reality!
Many people, -including Thomas Jefferson, -has tried to cut out & extract only the words of Jesus and discount the "miracles" etc. - but in all honesty, -it hasn't worked all that well.
Have you ever tried to a patch on a old torn garment using a new piece of fabric? Doesn't work very well does it?
Everything still all comes down to an acceptance of TRUTH as it is according to the facts of reality!
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 18, 2020 19:47:26 GMT -5
Aaaahhh dark chocolate weed . Sweet my fav !
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 19, 2020 3:01:10 GMT -5
I have a Christian mate who I’ve known for many years and only once did he ever raise the issue of Christianity with me. And when he did I informed him politely that I no longer believed in the Christian God and had completely rejected the Christianity of my youth. He then hit me with the very same CS Lewis argument that you have referred to here (the Mad, Bad or God argument). The way he put it was that when Jesus said he was the Son of God he was either telling the truth, he was a liar or he was a lunatic. He said that those were the only possible 3 options and asked me which one did I think it was? I think he may have thought that this was such a clever question that it would soon have me reconsidering my non belief. However I simply told him that there was in fact a 4th option which was the option most likely to be true in my view, ie. that Jesus never actually said those words and that the biblical authors had simply made that bit of the bible up - in the same way that the biblical authors had made up the stories about Jesus ascending up to heaven and Lot’s wife turning into a pillar of salt. That swiftly brought an end to the discussion and he has never raised the issue with me again. I suspect that the idea that the bible may not all be true had never occurred to him and he didn’t know how to respond. I guess that if you start with the assumption that the bible is all true it is likely that you will end up a Christian is the same way that if you start with the assumption that the Quran is all true it is likely that you will end up a Muslim. I suspect that it is because most of us started by assuming that what the workers told us was all true that we ended up as 2x2s. I think the moral of the story is don't assume any relgious teaching or book is all true unless you have credible evidence to support it. Matt10 Have you ever thought about what if the bible is true but the magic(for lack of a better word) is not true but just a vehicle to carry a meaning or a truth through time. I prefer the magic of reality.( for want of a better word)
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 19, 2020 4:36:11 GMT -5
I have a Christian mate who I’ve known for many years and only once did he ever raise the issue of Christianity with me. And when he did I informed him politely that I no longer believed in the Christian God and had completely rejected the Christianity of my youth. He then hit me with the very same CS Lewis argument that you have referred to here (the Mad, Bad or God argument). The way he put it was that when Jesus said he was the Son of God he was either telling the truth, he was a liar or he was a lunatic. He said that those were the only possible 3 options and asked me which one did I think it was? I think he may have thought that this was such a clever question that it would soon have me reconsidering my non belief. However I simply told him that there was in fact a 4th option which was the option most likely to be true in my view, ie. that Jesus never actually said those words and that the biblical authors had simply made that bit of the bible up - in the same way that the biblical authors had made up the stories about Jesus ascending up to heaven and Lot’s wife turning into a pillar of salt. That swiftly brought an end to the discussion and he has never raised the issue with me again. I suspect that the idea that the bible may not all be true had never occurred to him and he didn’t know how to respond. I guess that if you start with the assumption that the bible is all true it is likely that you will end up a Christian is the same way that if you start with the assumption that the Quran is all true it is likely that you will end up a Muslim. I suspect that it is because most of us started by assuming that what the workers told us was all true that we ended up as 2x2s. I think the moral of the story is don't assume any relgious teaching or book is all true unless you have credible evidence to support it. Matt10 Have you ever thought about what if the bible is true but the magic(for lack of a better word) is not true but just a vehicle to carry a meaning or a truth through time. But why should bible be any more true than any of the multiple ancient "sacred " books of the rest of the world? Take the Vedas for example.
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Post by chuck on Oct 19, 2020 5:09:00 GMT -5
Have you ever thought about what if the bible is true but the magic(for lack of a better word) is not true but just a vehicle to carry a meaning or a truth through time. But why should bible be any more true than any of the multiple ancient "sacred " books of the rest of the world? Take the Vedas for example.If it is true than there is no reason. I have never read it but it could quite possibly have countless meaningful truths carried in stories or history just like the bible.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2020 9:13:06 GMT -5
I have a Christian mate who I’ve known for many years and only once did he ever raise the issue of Christianity with me. And when he did I informed him politely that I no longer believed in the Christian God and had completely rejected the Christianity of my youth. He then hit me with the very same CS Lewis argument that you have referred to here (the Mad, Bad or God argument). The way he put it was that when Jesus said he was the Son of God he was either telling the truth, he was a liar or he was a lunatic. He said that those were the only possible 3 options and asked me which one did I think it was? I think he may have thought that this was such a clever question that it would soon have me reconsidering my non belief. However I simply told him that there was in fact a 4th option which was the option most likely to be true in my view, ie. that Jesus never actually said those words and that the biblical authors had simply made that bit of the bible up - in the same way that the biblical authors had made up the stories about Jesus ascending up to heaven and Lot’s wife turning into a pillar of salt. That swiftly brought an end to the discussion and he has never raised the issue with me again. I suspect that the idea that the bible may not all be true had never occurred to him and he didn’t know how to respond. I guess that if you start with the assumption that the bible is all true it is likely that you will end up a Christian is the same way that if you start with the assumption that the Quran is all true it is likely that you will end up a Muslim. I suspect that it is because most of us started by assuming that what the workers told us was all true that we ended up as 2x2s. I think the moral of the story is don't assume any relgious teaching or book is all true unless you have credible evidence to support it. Matt10 Have you ever thought about what if the bible is true but the magic(for lack of a better word) is not true but just a vehicle to carry a meaning or a truth through time. I’m not quite sure what you are asking me here. You seem to be asking me if I ever thought that the bible is true despite parts of it being untrue. Which is surely a bit like asking did I ever think I’d completed a crossword correctly despite having knowingly filled in several wrong answers. Perhaps the question you meant to ask me is whether I think the bible is more a book of meaningful stories than a true account of actual happenings? Matt10
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Post by fixit on Oct 19, 2020 14:55:30 GMT -5
But why should bible be any more true than any of the multiple ancient "sacred " books of the rest of the world? Take the Vedas for example. If it is true than there is no reason. I have never read it but it could quite possibly have countless meaningful truths carried in stories or history just like the bible. Workers write letters in which they call themselves "teachers" and the friends "students" to avoid the attention of authoritarian governments. A lot of the time periods in which the bible was written and transcribed had even more oppressive governments than those governments today. Should we be surprised if bible writers used creative language to pass on meaningful truths? I extract meaningful truths from the bible, but I don't fret about trying to take every word literally. Is that what works for you as well Chuck?
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 19, 2020 16:23:21 GMT -5
But why should bible be any more true than any of the multiple ancient "sacred " books of the rest of the world? Take the Vedas for example. If it is true than there is no reason. I have never read it but it could quite possibly have countless meaningful truths carried in stories or history just like the bible. Why does any of those stories in any of those "sacred" books have to necessarily be "meaningful truths?"
Isn't it just as likely that the people were simply trying to find an explanation for what was happening?
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Post by Dan on Oct 20, 2020 0:25:57 GMT -5
The truth will set you free. Feeling better is not just the release of guilt, its deliverance from eternal death. Stories can be discredited, but the Truth is resilient, which gives it more credibility than fabricated stories.
Extract the miracles, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ, and your still left with nothing but righteousness and truth.
Of course "The truth will set you free" -but only as I said before, when the "truth" is in accordance with fact or reality! Isn't your feeling "the release of guilt," and its "deliverance from eternal death" the main part of your "feeling better?"
Besides -just trying to "Extract the miracles, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ," -from the story in the bible is NOT going to make bible stories be in accordance with fact or reality!
Many people, -including Thomas Jefferson, -has tried to cut out & extract only the words of Jesus and discount the "miracles" etc. - but in all honesty, -it hasn't worked all that well.
Have you ever tried to a patch on a old torn garment using a new piece of fabric? Doesn't work very well does it?
Everything still all comes down to an acceptance of TRUTH as it is according to the facts of reality!
When one believes everything Jesus said, that Truth is their reality, and is accepted by faith as factual.
I still feel guilt when I do wrong things, so guilt is not so much released or a means of feeling better about myself, but a tool that guides my conscience.
Forgiveness gives a soul rest and Calvary doesn't make me feel better about myself, but gratitude for the God that paved the way to eternal life.
Everyone has a truth, their own truth, but that truth dies with us. Only one truth lives on, and that's the Truth Christians try to align themselves with.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 20, 2020 1:14:13 GMT -5
Of course "The truth will set you free" -but only as I said before, when the "truth" is in accordance with fact or reality! Isn't your feeling "the release of guilt," and its "deliverance from eternal death" the main part of your "feeling better?"
Besides -just trying to "Extract the miracles, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ," -from the story in the bible is NOT going to make bible stories be in accordance with fact or reality!
Many people, -including Thomas Jefferson, -has tried to cut out & extract only the words of Jesus and discount the "miracles" etc. - but in all honesty, -it hasn't worked all that well.
Have you ever tried to a patch on a old torn garment using a new piece of fabric? Doesn't work very well does it?
Everything still all comes down to an acceptance of TRUTH as it is according to the facts of reality!
When one believes everything Jesus said, that Truth is their reality, and is accepted by faith as factual.
I still feel guilt when I do wrong things, so guilt is not so much released or a means of feeling better about myself, but a tool that guides my conscience.
Forgiveness gives a soul rest and Calvary doesn't make me feel better about myself, but gratitude for the God that paved the way to eternal life.
Everyone has a truth, their own truth, but that truth dies with us. Only one truth lives on, and that's the Truth Christians try to align themselves with.
What is a wrong thing?
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Post by chuck on Oct 20, 2020 1:50:33 GMT -5
If it is true than there is no reason. I have never read it but it could quite possibly have countless meaningful truths carried in stories or history just like the bible. Why does any of those stories in any of those "sacred" books have to necessarily be "meaningful truths?"
Isn't it just as likely that the people were simply trying to find an explanation for what was happening?I doesn't have to. I said it's quite possible!. But we do know the scriptures are full of meaningful truths, many are carried in exaggerated fictitious stories that people get hung up on and then throw the baby out with the bath water. I think many of the writers of Scripture knew what was happening.
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Post by Dan on Oct 20, 2020 11:42:37 GMT -5
When one believes everything Jesus said, that Truth is their reality, and is accepted by faith as factual.
I still feel guilt when I do wrong things, so guilt is not so much released or a means of feeling better about myself, but a tool that guides my conscience.
Forgiveness gives a soul rest and Calvary doesn't make me feel better about myself, but gratitude for the God that paved the way to eternal life.
Everyone has a truth, their own truth, but that truth dies with us. Only one truth lives on, and that's the Truth Christians try to align themselves with.
What is a wrong thing?
The opposite of doing the right thing. Breaking commandments, ignoring someone in need, cheating, lying, stealing, drunkenness, fornicating, etc. Also failing to do the right thing, our reward is based on our works.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 20, 2020 11:58:15 GMT -5
The opposite of doing the right thing. Breaking commandments, ignoring someone in need, cheating, lying, stealing, drunkenness, fornicating, etc. Also failing to do the right thing, our reward is based on our works.
Can you not refrain from all those without a belief in your god?
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Post by Dan on Oct 20, 2020 22:50:08 GMT -5
The opposite of doing the right thing. Breaking commandments, ignoring someone in need, cheating, lying, stealing, drunkenness, fornicating, etc. Also failing to do the right thing, our reward is based on our works.
Can you not refrain from all those without a belief in your god?
I reckon everyone was given the knowledge of good and evil, so yes a nonbeliever has a sense of right & wrong.. But no one can refrain from all those things, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Belief in Christ blots out sin, so Christians don't come under judgement for sin, but are rewarded in accordance to their righteous works (Revelation 22:12).
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 20, 2020 23:20:42 GMT -5
Why does any of those stories in any of those "sacred" books have to necessarily be "meaningful truths?"
Isn't it just as likely that the people were simply trying to find an explanation for what was happening? I doesn't have to. I said it's quite possible!. But we do know the scriptures are full of meaningful truths, many are carried in exaggerated fictitious stories that people get hung up on and then throw the baby out with the bath water. I think many of the writers of Scripture knew what was happening. All sacred books have some "meaningful truths," but all such stories are based on an attempt to understand what was happening to them & their environment at their place in the world & their time of the history of humankind.
That doesn't mean that their conclusions were correct or accurate. So why only the bible?
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Post by chuck on Oct 20, 2020 23:23:00 GMT -5
I doesn't have to. I said it's quite possible!. But we do know the scriptures are full of meaningful truths, many are carried in exaggerated fictitious stories that people get hung up on and then throw the baby out with the bath water. I think many of the writers of Scripture knew what was happening. All sacred books have some "meaningful truths," but all such stories are based on an attempt to understand what was happening to them & their environment at their place in the world & their time of the history of humankind.
That doesn't mean that their conclusions were correct or accurate. So why only the bible?
Why only the bible what?.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 20, 2020 23:37:54 GMT -5
Can you not refrain from all those without a belief in your god? I reckon everyone was given the knowledge of good and evil, so yes a nonbeliever has a sense of right & wrong.. But no one can refrain from all those things, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
Belief in Christ blots out sin, so Christians don't come under judgement for sin, but are rewarded in accordance to their righteous works (Revelation 22:12).
(but I thought you just said "our reward is based on our works.")
My son I were just discussing this very idea: Belief in Christ blots out sin," -about how wrong it is for someone else to die for our sins. He feels that they are OUR "sins" & it is totally wrong that someone else should have to die for them!
My position also and that it is a cop-out; -just a easy way for us to get rid of our mistakes & not have to bear the consequences of those mistakes.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 20, 2020 23:42:18 GMT -5
All sacred books have some "meaningful truths," but all such stories are based on an attempt to understand what was happening to them & their environment at their place in the world & their time of the history of humankind.
That doesn't mean that their conclusions were correct or accurate. So why only the bible?
Why only the bible what?. Why are you concentrating only on the bible & not attempting to understand why people in other cultures believed as they did?
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Post by chuck on Oct 21, 2020 8:46:24 GMT -5
Why only the bible what?. Why are you concentrating only on the bible & not attempting to understand why people in other cultures believed as they did?Why not?. I'm pretty sure some other cultures will have similar reasons as the Hebrew people. Dynamic Progressive Revelation.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 21, 2020 14:25:37 GMT -5
Why are you concentrating only on the bible & not attempting to understand why people in other cultures believed as they did? Why not?. I'm pretty sure some other cultures will have similar reasons as the Hebrew people. Dynamic Progressive Revelation. Chuck, -Here is why I think that by your "concentrating only on the bible & not attempting to understand people in other religious cultures ," -it is that you are doing yourself a huge disfavor.
What you are missing is the much larger insight into the reasons behind why different religious cultures form different beliefs yet very often for the same reasons!
Thanks for you link:
Dynamic Progressive Revelation. Progressive revelation
Christianity
Progressive revelation is the doctrine in Christianity that the sections of the Bible that were written later contain a fuller revelation of God than the earlier sections. God didn't tell people His entire plan all at once. They wouldn't be able to handle it. "Progressive revelation does not mean to say that the Old Testament is somehow less true than the New Testament. The progress was not from untruth to truth - it was from less information to more full information." ~Don Stewart:: What Is Progressive Revelation?
But of course since Don Stewart is a Pentecostal minister and purported faith healer, -he is just another apologist and not even a very honest one at that. In fact he's fraud.
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Post by Dan on Oct 21, 2020 15:43:08 GMT -5
I reckon everyone was given the knowledge of good and evil, so yes a nonbeliever has a sense of right & wrong.. But no one can refrain from all those things, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
Belief in Christ blots out sin, so Christians don't come under judgement for sin, but are rewarded in accordance to their righteous works (Revelation 22:12).
(but I thought you just said "our reward is based on our works.")
My son and I were just discussing this very idea: Belief in Christ blots out sin," -about how wrong it is for someone else to die for our sins. He feels that they are OUR "sins" & it is totally wrong that someone else should have to die for them!
My position also and that it is a cop-out; -just a easy way for us to get rid of our mistakes & not have to bear the consequences of those mistakes.
If a baby spills his milk and you clean it up, is it totally wrong that you had to clean-up the mess? Is it a cop-out for the baby not to bear the consequences for the mistake? The consequences for our mistakes is death, Jesus simply paid the debt for our transgressions and he did it for the same reason you'd clean-up babies mess, because you love your kid. We can't get rid of our own mistakes.
Christians aren't judged in a condemning fashion, they are judged (rewarded) for their righteous works. "Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me" (Matthew 25:36).
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Post by maryhig on Oct 21, 2020 16:26:44 GMT -5
(but I thought you just said "our reward is based on our works.")
My son and I were just discussing this very idea: Belief in Christ blots out sin," -about how wrong it is for someone else to die for our sins. He feels that they are OUR "sins" & it is totally wrong that someone else should have to die for them!
My position also and that it is a cop-out; -just a easy way for us to get rid of our mistakes & not have to bear the consequences of those mistakes.
If a baby spills his milk and you clean it up, is it totally wrong that you had to clean-up the mess? Is it a cop-out for the baby not to bear the consequences for the mistake? The consequences for our mistakes is death, Jesus simply paid the debt for our transgressions and he did it for the same reason you'd clean-up babies mess, because you love your kid. We can't get rid of our own mistakes.
Christians aren't judged in a condemning fashion, they are judged (rewarded) for their righteous works. "Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me" (Matthew 25:36).
It says in the Bible that we are judged on what we do, good and bad. So we are judged by what we do in this life. And we are to put to death the ways of the flesh and we do this by obeying the word of God and listening to the Spirit as we are guided in the truth. We are to turn from sin not just say that it's all been done for us and we can't do anything. Being a babe in Christ is having an innocence like a child as we turn from our sinful ways, as we are being led my the Spirit and our heart is being cleansed. This is what Jesus meant when he said we are to become an little children, it means to return to innocence. But those who are strong in God are grown in God, and they should be living by the will of God and turning from sin when they see it. And Christ through the Spirit will be strengthening those who belong to him to overcome the temptations and the works and ways of this world. We are to turn from sin and mortify the deeds of the flesh. Romans 8 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God Colossians 3 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 21, 2020 17:47:29 GMT -5
"Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me" (Matthew 25:36). [/div] [/quote] Welfare will take care of the first one, if you pay your taxes. Medical insurance would satisfy the second requirement. How many prisoners have you visited? Don't complain -- it's YOUR reward you're working on.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 21, 2020 17:56:17 GMT -5
Uuummm so it is ok for Worker’s to lie ? They ignore someone in need , but still look for that envelope on the way out ! From someone in need .
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 21, 2020 17:59:12 GMT -5
Yada yada yada
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 21, 2020 17:59:16 GMT -5
Uuummm so it is ok for Worker’s to lie ? I have a record of one worker making that claim.
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Post by 1chinesewhispers on Oct 21, 2020 18:05:08 GMT -5
I know of a few ! It was kinda hold your breath last year as some tried to get into some area’s of the world . Down to the wire . 2 here in YYC . The government wanted more proof . Lose lips sink tall ships !
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