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Post by fixit on Jul 21, 2020 21:54:20 GMT -5
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 21, 2020 23:04:52 GMT -5
It was not very becoming of him to enter into a consensual relationship with a staff member. I actually vote for the McCilliCuddy Serious Party or a party that has similar values. The interesting thing you may have forgotten is How the Jamie Lee Ross saga started. he was the conduit for some donations, which were perhaps from dubious sources. He has a recording of Simon Bridges saying that because of the donations they will need to make room on the list seats for a Chinese MP. Bridges then said he would prefer a Chinese MP than an Indian one. From that conversation I take it that there were also dubious donations from Indians who perhaps have business's here in NZ and want to see deals sweetened for them. PS: would you go to a church that sweeps extra marital affairs and kiddy sex under the carpet?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2020 23:36:34 GMT -5
I believe there is the good and the bad, commendable and not so commendable, desirable and not desirable in the main NZ political partys and in many of the church’s here.
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Post by fixit on Jul 22, 2020 0:50:18 GMT -5
PS: would you go to a church that sweeps extra marital affairs and kiddy sex under the carpet? I wouldn't condone that. 1 Corinthians 5:9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. 12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”
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Post by iam on Jul 22, 2020 1:27:02 GMT -5
PS: would you go to a church that sweeps extra marital affairs and kiddy sex under the carpet? I wouldn't condone that. 1 Corinthians 5:9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. 12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.” Yet Jesus said let him that is without sin cast the first stone. And Jesus was a friend of publicans and sinners. Because being near to someone like Jesus, or the apostles for that matter, would cause anyone to forsake their evil ways. We don’t have that kind of power left on earth today so many fail and many fall. I was just thinking today why nobody dealt with these problems and I wondered if simply no one felt qualified to “stone the sinner” so to speak. I think it speaks pretty loud about the lack of Christ in our church that these there has not been more empathy for the ones that are suffering. In these days, those verses you quoted, would mean NONE of us should be having anything to do with each other! Greed? Idols? Cheats people? Abusive? Takes a real honest heart to come to the realization that.....oh!.......that’s......me😔 When those scriptures were written, there would have been a very high standard in the church because it had not been long since Jesus was on the earth. Times have changed. The church TODAY....sorry to burst anyone’s bubble....isn’t very pure as a whole. And many that are doing better than others are often responsible for “putting a stumbling block in a brother’s way”. Covid is just putting a damper on the hypocrisy of worship.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 22, 2020 2:09:01 GMT -5
It was not very becoming of him to enter into a consensual relationship with a staff member. I actually vote for the McCilliCuddy Serious Party or a party that has similar values. The interesting thing you may have forgotten is How the Jamie Lee Ross saga started. he was the conduit for some donations, which were perhaps from dubious sources. He has a recording of Simon Bridges saying that because of the donations they will need to make room on the list seats for a Chinese MP. Bridges then said he would prefer a Chinese MP than an Indian one. From that conversation I take it that there were also dubious donations from Indians who perhaps have business's here in NZ and want to see deals sweetened for them. PS: would you go to a church that sweeps extra marital affairs and kiddy sex under the carpet? My personal opinion -- An affair is not a factor in one's ability to do a job, BUT if it's with a fellow worker, especially one of higher/lower rank, loyalty issues are sooner or later going to prejudice the working relationship with other personnel. That makes it an unethical practice.
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Post by fixit on Jul 22, 2020 6:24:58 GMT -5
It was not very becoming of him to enter into a consensual relationship with a staff member. I actually vote for the McCilliCuddy Serious Party or a party that has similar values. The interesting thing you may have forgotten is How the Jamie Lee Ross saga started. he was the conduit for some donations, which were perhaps from dubious sources. He has a recording of Simon Bridges saying that because of the donations they will need to make room on the list seats for a Chinese MP. Bridges then said he would prefer a Chinese MP than an Indian one. From that conversation I take it that there were also dubious donations from Indians who perhaps have business's here in NZ and want to see deals sweetened for them. PS: would you go to a church that sweeps extra marital affairs and kiddy sex under the carpet? My personal opinion -- An affair is not a factor in one's ability to do a job, BUT if it's with a fellow worker, especially one of higher/lower rank, loyalty issues are sooner or later going to prejudice the working relationship with other personnel. That makes it an unethical practice. It's unacceptable here in NZ for a Government minister to have an affair with a subordinate.
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Post by joanna on Jul 22, 2020 18:47:41 GMT -5
curlywurlysammagee Yes Curly. The Animal Justice Party has these recommendations: The AJP supports the humane and non-lethal treatment of all animals regardless of where their species originated. We will support and develop programs that are in-line with this position and focus on restoring eco-systems via methods harmonious to nature such as re-wilding.
Key Objectives
To immediately ban the use of glue traps, leg traps and steel jaw traps in all States and Territories. To support research into non-lethal population control methods. To replace lethal biological and chemical control with the use of non-lethal techniques, including desexing, immunocontraception, relocation and other emerging technologies. To educate Australians regarding the damage that can be done by abandoned animals such as cats, dogs and other predator species, horses, pigs and non-native fish, amphibians and reptiles. To impose a moratorium on the introduction of exotic animals and disease-causing organisms. To encourage the use of physical barriers around valuable vegetation and, as an interim measure while animals are farmed, to allow the use of guard animals such as dogs or donkeys.Animals Australia addresses the plight of introduced species via this link: It is so often forgotten that this group of much maligned animals has the same capacity to suffer as any other animal in Australia. Introduced/non-native animals are regularly the subject of bad publicity for the perceived damage that they cause. They are often described as "feral", "pest", "noxious", "vermin" or "invasive". These words unfairly devalue the animals, implying that they are less deserving of compassion and consideration than other animals, even other animals of the same species.A quote from "Listening to Nature's Voice: Science, Law and Compassion The key message from the article is that humans need to modify their own behaviour, so that invasive species do not bear the ethical burden for humanity’s mismanagement of the Earth".
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 22, 2020 21:21:18 GMT -5
curlywurlysammagee Yes Curly. The Animal Justice Party has these recommendations: The AJP supports the humane and non-lethal treatment of all animals regardless of where their species originated. We will support and develop programs that are in-line with this position and focus on restoring eco-systems via methods harmonious to nature such as re-wilding.
Key Objectives
To immediately ban the use of glue traps, leg traps and steel jaw traps in all States and Territories. To support research into non-lethal population control methods. To replace lethal biological and chemical control with the use of non-lethal techniques, including desexing, immunocontraception, relocation and other emerging technologies. To educate Australians regarding the damage that can be done by abandoned animals such as cats, dogs and other predator species, horses, pigs and non-native fish, amphibians and reptiles. To impose a moratorium on the introduction of exotic animals and disease-causing organisms. To encourage the use of physical barriers around valuable vegetation and, as an interim measure while animals are farmed, to allow the use of guard animals such as dogs or donkeys.Animals Australia addresses the plight of introduced species via this link: It is so often forgotten that this group of much maligned animals has the same capacity to suffer as any other animal in Australia. Introduced/non-native animals are regularly the subject of bad publicity for the perceived damage that they cause. They are often described as "feral", "pest", "noxious", "vermin" or "invasive". These words unfairly devalue the animals, implying that they are less deserving of compassion and consideration than other animals, even other animals of the same species.A quote from "Listening to Nature's Voice: Science, Law and Compassion The key message from the article is that humans need to modify their own behaviour, so that invasive species do not bear the ethical burden for humanity’s mismanagement of the Earth". What you have written does not help the threat to endemic plant life that introduced species are. In fact it is irrelevant.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 22, 2020 21:32:18 GMT -5
My personal opinion -- An affair is not a factor in one's ability to do a job, BUT if it's with a fellow worker, especially one of higher/lower rank, loyalty issues are sooner or later going to prejudice the working relationship with other personnel. That makes it an unethical practice. It's unacceptable here in NZ for a Government minister to have an affair with a subordinate. With good reason. It is anywhere.
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Post by joanna on Jul 23, 2020 20:21:14 GMT -5
curlywurlysammageeIn what way are they irrelevant? Human behaviours have been the main 'threat to endemic plant life'. The clearing of pastures for farming crops to feed to non-human animals and the introduction of weeds have disturbed and destroyed the ecology. Population controls using compassionate strategies are possible if humans can quell their propensity to kill. The impact of animal agriculture on the environment far exceeds the environmental impacts of human-introduced species. Burning the forest Before people arrived, more than 80% of New Zealand was covered in forest. Māori burnt about 40% of the forest within 200 years of arriving – probably to clear space for gardens, tracks and settlements.
Europeans arrive Large numbers of Europeans settled in New Zealand after 1840. They cleared much of the remaining lowland forest for farming, and cut down many more large trees for timber. Today less than a quarter of New Zealand is covered in forest. Cleared land in hilly areas is prone to erosion. Introduced plants Over 30,000 exotic plant species have been brought into New Zealand. Some have become uncontrollable weeds, replacing native plants in certain areas.New Zealand environment
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Post by Bert Rodgers on Jul 23, 2020 20:27:07 GMT -5
curlywurlysammageeIn what way are they irrelevant? Human behaviours have been the main 'threat to endemic plant life'. The clearing of pastures for farming crops to feed to non-human animals and the introduction of weeds have disturbed and destroyed the ecology. Population controls using compassionate strategies are possible if humans can quell their propensity to kill. The impact of animal agriculture on the environment far exceeds the environmental impacts of human-introduced species. Burning the forest Before people arrived, more than 80% of New Zealand was covered in forest. Māori burnt about 40% of the forest within 200 years of arriving – probably to clear space for gardens, tracks and settlements.
Europeans arrive Large numbers of Europeans settled in New Zealand after 1840. They cleared much of the remaining lowland forest for farming, and cut down many more large trees for timber. Today less than a quarter of New Zealand is covered in forest. Cleared land in hilly areas is prone to erosion. Introduced plants Over 30,000 exotic plant species have been brought into New Zealand. Some have become uncontrollable weeds, replacing native plants in certain areas.New Zealand environment All is part of the environment and each changes it in some way. Whether the change is "good" or "bad" depends on what each needs. Acid rain is good for some living things.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 23, 2020 21:01:52 GMT -5
curlywurlysammagee In what way are they irrelevant? Human behaviours have been the main 'threat to endemic plant life'. The clearing of pastures for farming crops to feed to non-human animals and the introduction of weeds have disturbed and destroyed the ecology. Population controls using compassionate strategies are possible if humans can quell their propensity to kill. The impact of animal agriculture on the environment far exceeds the environmental impacts of human-introduced species. Burning the forest Before people arrived, more than 80% of New Zealand was covered in forest. Māori burnt about 40% of the forest within 200 years of arriving – probably to clear space for gardens, tracks and settlements.
Europeans arrive Large numbers of Europeans settled in New Zealand after 1840. They cleared much of the remaining lowland forest for farming, and cut down many more large trees for timber. Today less than a quarter of New Zealand is covered in forest. Cleared land in hilly areas is prone to erosion. Introduced plants Over 30,000 exotic plant species have been brought into New Zealand. Some have become uncontrollable weeds, replacing native plants in certain areas.New Zealand environment I asked specifically about the tahr over population. Maybe you missed that. There is no compassionate way of removing a lot of animals from an environment that they should never have been placed in. Shooting them is the only choice. I can assure you they are yummy. The back steaks are really delicious and the hind legs make a nice roast.
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Post by fred on Jul 23, 2020 22:37:16 GMT -5
The use of these words casts a pall over the use of and production from animals. I'm not even sure what 'animal agricultural' means, though I feel it is probably a term used by vegans to denigrate production via the use of animals.
What I do know for a fact is that in trials and embedded practices all over the world, holistic planned grazing will have (and has had) a regenerative effect on the land and will bring soils back to biological balance. In brittle environments where desertification is in progress, grazing animals under proper management is the only tool left to man to heal the environment.
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Post by joanna on Jul 23, 2020 22:45:04 GMT -5
curlywurlysammagee. Maybe if you reflect on why you are applying such a specific focus on just one environmental issue Curly, despite the fact there are more urgent issues, and that you f(l)avour one strategy to deal with that, you might understand that your strategy results from your stomach suppressing any potential to show compassion to these vulnerable, sentient beings. It presents that the pleasure you get from killing and eating other animals is more important than the environment. The reasons we do not resort to shooting humans to prevent environmental damage can be extrapolated onto other species.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 24, 2020 3:30:18 GMT -5
curlywurlysammagee . Maybe if you reflect on why you are applying such a specific focus on just one environmental issue Curly, despite the fact there are more urgent issues, and that you f(l)avour one strategy to deal with that, you might understand that your strategy results from your stomach suppressing any potential to show compassion to these vulnerable, sentient beings. It presents that the pleasure you get from killing and eating other animals is more important than the environment. The reasons we do not resort to shooting humans to prevent environmental damage can be extrapolated onto other species. If you reflect that you do not know me you would realize how wrong you are. The facts are the tahr are damaging the environment. The best way to protect the environment is to kill the tahr. So far you have not come up with a better idea other than some woolly headed hubris..
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 24, 2020 3:35:36 GMT -5
curlywurlysammagee . Maybe if you reflect on why you are applying such a specific focus on just one environmental issue Curly, despite the fact there are more urgent issues, and that you f(l)avour one strategy to deal with that, you might understand that your strategy results from your stomach suppressing any potential to show compassion to these vulnerable, sentient beings. It presents that the pleasure you get from killing and eating other animals is more important than the environment. The reasons we do not resort to shooting humans to prevent environmental damage can be extrapolated onto other species. Sometimes a 1080 drop is very effective.....knocks off all the predators, and our native species come back and thrive. For example, Rotopounamu, Kaitake, Purangi, Rotomanu. My company is involved with a couple of the foundations that work in this area, and I have seen the results. With the Tahr, the cull is the only way, and it is actually the Greens who are promoting the cull. And Curly is right, the back steaks are delicious. Nothing like a rack of wild pork, a Denver leg, or back steak, or a whole rabbit.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 24, 2020 3:51:14 GMT -5
curlywurlysammagee . Maybe if you reflect on why you are applying such a specific focus on just one environmental issue Curly, despite the fact there are more urgent issues, and that you f(l)avour one strategy to deal with that, you might understand that your strategy results from your stomach suppressing any potential to show compassion to these vulnerable, sentient beings. It presents that the pleasure you get from killing and eating other animals is more important than the environment. The reasons we do not resort to shooting humans to prevent environmental damage can be extrapolated onto other species. Sometimes a 1080 drop is very effective.....knocks off all the predators, and our native species come back and thrive. For example, Rotopounamu, Kaitake, Purangi, Rotomanu. My company is involved with a couple of the foundations that work in this area, and I have seen the results. With the Tahr, the cull is the only way, and it is actually the Greens who are promoting the cull. And Curly is right, the back steaks are delicious. Nothing like a rack of wild pork, a Denver leg, or back steak, or a whole rabbit. Some people stuff a whole rabbit with herbs but I do not like doing that. Herbs have feelings and do not like to have pieces cut and wrenched from them.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 24, 2020 4:07:13 GMT -5
Sometimes a 1080 drop is very effective.....knocks off all the predators, and our native species come back and thrive. For example, Rotopounamu, Kaitake, Purangi, Rotomanu. My company is involved with a couple of the foundations that work in this area, and I have seen the results. With the Tahr, the cull is the only way, and it is actually the Greens who are promoting the cull. And Curly is right, the back steaks are delicious. Nothing like a rack of wild pork, a Denver leg, or back steak, or a whole rabbit. Some people stuff a whole rabbit with herbs but I do not like doing that. Herbs have feelings and do not like to have pieces cut and wrenched from them. For me Rabbit is best jointed, and slow cooked in Red Wine with Chilli, Tomato and Coriander, due to it’s low fat content. I got some Tahr from game-meats.co.nz. We live rural, and have to keep the population down of all sorts in the orchard, so Rabbit, Pheasant,Guinea Fowl - freezer is well stocked. Still plenty of goats and pig out Tarata way. Goat curry is great.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 24, 2020 4:25:06 GMT -5
Some people stuff a whole rabbit with herbs but I do not like doing that. Herbs have feelings and do not like to have pieces cut and wrenched from them. For me Rabbit is best jointed, and slow cooked in Red Wine with Chilli, Tomato and Coriander, due to it’s low fat content. I got some Tahr from game-meats.co.nz. We live rural, and have to keep the population down of all sorts in the orchard, so Rabbit, Pheasant,Guinea Fowl - freezer is well stocked. Still plenty of goats and pig out Tarata way. Goat curry is great. I like the sound of your diet. Next year when I am up I will drop some tahr off if I havn't worn my barrell out by then. I used to live on goat meat. Day in and day out. Weeks and weeks of it. That an bloody surprise peas and rice.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 24, 2020 4:59:48 GMT -5
Sometimes a 1080 drop is very effective.....knocks off all the predators, and our native species come back and thrive. For example, Rotopounamu, Kaitake, Purangi, Rotomanu. My company is involved with a couple of the foundations that work in this area, and I have seen the results. With the Tahr, the cull is the only way, and it is actually the Greens who are promoting the cull. And Curly is right, the back steaks are delicious. Nothing like a rack of wild pork, a Denver leg, or back steak, or a whole rabbit. Some people stuff a whole rabbit with herbs but I do not like doing that. Herbs have feelings and do not like to have pieces cut and wrenched from them. Come on curley!
You know very well that joanna does have a very important message!
As did most of people I know I grew up enjoying the taste of pork & beef.
I still love the taste of rib-eye steak.
I also know the problems of over-population of some animals.
In our area it is deer which can stripe acre of corn in an less than an hour.
We never had deer in such large numbers as I was growing up.
In fact I don't even remember seeing one.
The other day I saw one at my father-in-laws place which is in the middle of a fairly large city!
But the elephant that is smack dab in the middle of the room which we ignore & talk all around it as if it doesn't exist is the over-population of our OWN species!
Joanna cites how our consumption of meat has led to some horrible conditions for many animals and she is right!
If we saw some of the conditions in which those animals had to live their whole lives and then the way they die, , we wouldn't want to touch another piece of meat again.
We are fortunate here to have a small grocer who gets meat from local farmers direct and knows how the animals are treated.
For the animals sake as well as our own we need to quit ignoring that elephant in the room and begin to control our own re-production and learn to use our resources with more care.
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Post by joanna on Jul 24, 2020 5:02:15 GMT -5
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Post by joanna on Jul 24, 2020 5:07:41 GMT -5
dmmichgoodThe population of introduced species should and could be controlled using 21st century, compassionate interventions. Any person who promotes the use of 1080 is inherently cruel and likely incapable of responding to reason. Hunters introduced those poor tahr into NZ.
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Post by fixit on Jul 24, 2020 5:43:57 GMT -5
For the animals sake as well as our own we need to quit ignoring that elephant in the room and begin to control our own re-production and learn to use our resources with more care. Do you have any ideas for how that could be achieved?
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Post by fixit on Jul 24, 2020 5:45:49 GMT -5
The population of introduced species should and could be controlled using 21st century, compassionate interventions. What are 21st century, compassionate interventions?
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Post by fixit on Jul 24, 2020 5:50:31 GMT -5
The article mentions the desire to inflict pain, which I think is way off the mark. The hunters I know try to minimise the suffering of their prey.
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Post by Pragmatic on Jul 24, 2020 6:18:24 GMT -5
Absolutely. Hunting is not about the kill, unless it’s for some self obsessed trophy hunter shooting captive animals, which I abhor. It’s about the connection of life sustenance to the land which gave it. Indigenous people understand this connection, and it’s not only hunting, but also gathering, fishing, and planting.
As a hunter, do I love the healthy crack and the smell of cordite? Of course. Do I like the kill? No, but it is part of primal man and our instinct to survive.
As for 1080, I know it’s horrible, but in our country, there isn’t a better and more humane alternative yet. And that is why DOC use it.
It is irrelevant that hunters brought silver rabbits, tahr, deer, longhorn sheep, pigs here for hunting. The issue is the situation we have now, and what do with it, and how to best preserve our Takahe, Kokako, Kiwi, Flora and other Fauna.
When I go and dive and bring back Paua, Crayfish and Kina, it give me a great feeling of satisfaction and spiritual connection to the sea, that getting it from the Supermarket will never do. And giving it to those around me also.
If you spend time in the bush with Aboriginals or our Maori, or hunt with the Tongans, only then will you understand.
Any person that kills because he just likes killing probably has a psychopathic streak.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 24, 2020 14:43:42 GMT -5
Some people stuff a whole rabbit with herbs but I do not like doing that. Herbs have feelings and do not like to have pieces cut and wrenched from them. Come on curley!
You know very well that joanna does have a very important message!
As did most of people I know I grew up enjoying the taste of pork & beef.
I still love the taste of rib-eye steak.
I also know the problems of over-population of some animals.
In our area it is deer which can stripe acre of corn in an less than an hour.
We never had deer in such large numbers as I was growing up.
In fact I don't even remember seeing one.
The other day I saw one at my father-in-laws place which is in the middle of a fairly large city!
But the elephant that is smack dab in the middle of the room which we ignore & talk all around it as if it doesn't exist is the over-population of our OWN species!
Joanna cites how our consumption of meat has led to some horrible conditions for many animals and she is right!
If we saw some of the conditions in which those animals had to live their whole lives and then the way they die, , we wouldn't want to touch another piece of meat again.
We are fortunate here to have a small grocer who gets meat from local farmers direct and knows how the animals are treated.
For the animals sake as well as our own we need to quit ignoring that elephant in the room and begin to control our own re-production and learn to use our resources with more care.I do know exactly what Joanna is on about. I agree entirely with her position that much of the problem is man made. However applying the broad brush to specific problems does not seem to work. Rectifying the mistakes of the past is painful and costly. In this case lowering the population is the only way of protecting the fragile environment and the plant life that is part of it.
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