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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 4, 2020 4:07:16 GMT -5
I WOULD NOT want to be in Cherie, Doug Parker and others like them standing before God in the Day of Judgment... thousands of 2x2s and who know how many people they have lead astray and AWAY from the Truth of Jesus in the 21st century through their anti-2x2 websites.
This is such a strange statement, Nathan. Did Cherie and Doug tell lies about the history, or did they tell the truth? Did the workers tell the truth about the history, or did they lie? Who is the father of lies? When, and how, did Cherie and Doug do wrong?
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Post by speak on Jul 4, 2020 4:08:27 GMT -5
[/b][/quote] ** You can believe wherever you want, I believe Pastor Frank Stranges, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, Air Force Col. Billy Woodward and U.S. gov't geologist Phil S. Are telling the TRUTH of what he had see and witnessed. [/quote] Nathan I urge you to consider these verses and show where those people you have mentioned would be found in them? What is their place in spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ? What does anything these men have said point us to Jesus other than what Jesus has already said? Just seems to me that these men are being used to show us where Christ is when we already know where He is. Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [/quote] So, Speak... Where do you THINK Christ is now? One of them telling us Where Jesus is right now and he is waiting for the time when God the Father will send Him back to earth to establish His earthly kingdom and to RULE with His believers, and Him as the King of kings and LORD of lords.
[/quote] Well Christ said my Father and I will come and dwell with you, so He is with us in us. This is what the Bible teaches. Christ is as the Father is a Spirit who does not dwell in a single place, He is waiting in our hearts, we see Him now and He will come again in the clouds.[/quote] What you said are TRUE. However, Jesus said He is with/sitting at His Father's right hand. He went back to heaven to prepare a place for the believers... Which place was Jesus talking about? Where does your and mine soul depart to AFTER we died?
There is a PLACE where God the Father, Christ and the Holy angels are LIVING together, with the Old and New Testament AFTER the believers/souls had died.... John the apostle saw that place when God took him there while he was on the island of Patmos.
[/quote] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
First of all Jesus didn't say that He was going back to Heaven, He said I go to prepare a place for you. The place is with Him in Him. That is the place prepared for us. 1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray ; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Gone to be with Jesus and in Him. And where was this place that John said that he saw? Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. It is not a solid place like the earth or one of the planets, we don't need such when we dead in the earthly body it is completely spiritual.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 10:30:14 GMT -5
The title question is non-biblical -- no human being coverts any other human being, and no human being can know whether any other human being is or is not a believer. Conversion is God's work alone, the work set out for believers to do is to preach the gospel - not the 2x2 right church gospel but the gospel of God's word found very clearly in ! Cor. 15, first few verses.
Specifically;according to the scriptures. "How that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose on the third day.": all 'according to the Old Testament' i.e., "according to the scriptures."
And 2x2 clergy have very seldom ever preached the gospel. So few commoner 2x2s even know what the gospel is because their clergy preaches a false gospel of 'the right church' right from its founder through its whole history.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 10:38:40 GMT -5
[/b][/quote] ** You can believe wherever you want, I believe Pastor Frank Stranges, Admiral Richard E. Byrd, Air Force Col. Billy Woodward and U.S. gov't geologist Phil S. Are telling the TRUTH of what he had see and witnessed. [/quote] Nathan I urge you to consider these verses and show where those people you have mentioned would be found in them? What is their place in spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ? What does anything these men have said point us to Jesus other than what Jesus has already said? Just seems to me that these men are being used to show us where Christ is when we already know where He is. Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [/quote] So, Speak... Where do you THINK Christ is now? One of them telling us Where Jesus is right now and he is waiting for the time when God the Father will send Him back to earth to establish His earthly kingdom and to RULE with His believers, and Him as the King of kings and LORD of lords.
[/quote] I sought of don't understand why you have neglected to answer the questions i posed? [/quote] I explained and answered your questions but it seems you don't understand or get it.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 10:54:00 GMT -5
I WOULD NOT want to be in Cherie, Doug Parker and others like them standing before God in the Day of Judgment... thousands of 2x2s and who know how many people they have lead astray and AWAY from the Truth of Jesus in the 21st century through their anti-2x2 websites.
This is such a strange statement, Nathan. Did Cherie and Doug tell lies about the history, or did they tell the truth? Did the workers tell the truth about the history, or did they lie? Who is the father of lies? When, and how, did Cherie and Doug do wrong? They did NOT TELL the WHOLE Truth of the 2x2 history....They did NOT share this part as the purpose of the early days workers, the friends and William Irvine where they want to follow Jesus 2x2 apostlic/workers ministry and fellowship.
~~ August, 1954: Testimony of an ex-2x2 Ida West from North Ireland An interested person has asked me to tell my story with regard to my faith and the fellowship I have kept. My parents were John and Sarah West brought up in the Church of Ireland (Anglican). My father, for a time previous to his marriage, moved and worked among the Methodists. Soon after his marriage in 1901, he, Edward Cooney, Tom Betty and others, all of whom used to evangelize together, moved out of the sects to which they belonged, Church of Ireland, Methodist, Presbyterian and so on, into fellowship with William Irvine, a Scottish Presbyterian evangelist in the Faith Mission, who was with others moving out of Faith Mission toward clearer light on New Testament teaching and practices.They took the view that Christendom was confusion of which God was not the author. So they decided to go to Christendom and the world the way Jesus sent his apostles to Israel (Matthew 10) and to the world (Matthew 28). This is what the preachers did. My father, who did not go to preach, opened his heart and home to these preachers who sold their possessions, scattered their money to the poor and went out to preach by faith. Their message was repent, believe the gospel, follow the teaching and example of New Testament founders--Christ and the apostles. This move raised the opposition of clergy and leaders among the denominations, e.g. Church of Ireland, Methodists, Presbyterians, Salvation Army, Plymouth Brethren and others. The young movement held the course to take was 'Come out of Babylon' which is confusion. By this they meant to refuse fellowship with the world, false teachers and systems because they contradicted the teaching and example of Christ and his apostles. Their opponents held that it was better to stay in and clean up inside; but they ignored the fact that principalities and powers need exposure and triumphing over (Col. 2:15). This could only be done by a fuller manifestation of Christ through willing witnesses which this people proved by bearing their cross representing Christ as He in bearing his cross represented or declared the Father. The movement grew and spread rapidly. ~~ Edward Cooney (1867-1960) 2x2 early days worker in (1901) wrote To Impartial Reporter 10/7/1909
1) Edward Cooney wrote, " We (2x2 workers) did NOT start this Jesus Way. It was started and planned by God before we were thought of, and we are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the Saints and trying to separate it from the tradition of men. There was in the day, William Irvine, upon whose heart God's Spirit worked to raise him up like the judges of old, to lead back those in Christendom to the TRUTH as it is in Jesus." ( By Patricia Roberts book page 43-45) Edward Cooney wrote, "Undoubtedly God has called us and separated us to be His people in the beginning, and most prominent and most used in this calling out a people, William Irvine who at the time of being sent forth to be a prophet, saw more clearly than any of us that the revelation of the Father to each individual child of His is Christ would build His Church, and that the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it." (By Patricia Roberts Page 43-45)
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 10:56:45 GMT -5
Testimonies of workers through the years...
~~~ "We believe the apostles have Existed since Jesus sent forth the 70 disciples Two and Two." Richard Sullivan. (USA worker)
~~~ "It's from the beginning, planned in God's mind before creation. Walter Nelson. 1976 (USA worker)
~~~ "Was William Irvine the first in the way?" "I think William was among the first... I feel that God has had a Way on the earth since before the foundation of the earth... I don't believe William Irvine is the beginner of it." Bea Mokini. 1985 ( A native Hawaiian worker).
~~~ In answer to your question, "Where did this religion actually begin?" Was it with Jesus as we have been told in Gospel Meetings, or by a man name William Irvine in 1897? We believe Hebrews 12:2 "Looking to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." I would like to give you some references that mean a lot to me as we carry the Gospel to people and point them to something that is from the beginning and not to something started by Man.
In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world was, and in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word" etc. So, there is NO date for the starting, as it was with the Heavenly Father before the world. Why would we want something started by a Man when we have in the scripture something that is from the beginning and the scripture to back it up? Doris B. letter, 1989
~~~ "I never met William Irvine at any time and believe he was used of God, but was Never the Origin of what we believe. I understand he became too big in himself and Left the fellowship we love. Workers I know and respect preach only what Jesus lived and taught with no mention at all of William Irvine, or any other man and give only real appreciation for those who retell in our days things taught in Jesus' day. This faith began in New Testament days, neither in Ireland, Scotland or in the U.K. Roddy M. (Scotland Worker) letter dated 6/1/1995.
~~~ "William Irvine Did Not start this Church, it is from beginning, and the Way was just made evidence to him, then." Karen Tenniswood. 1996 (USA)
~~~ "However, regardless of a written record being preserved, Truth is Truth. If nobody believes it and or ... if everybody believes it. Whether or not a thing is believed in has nothing to do with its correctness. To use parable illustration, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. That is an established fact of existence. Whether or not people believe the sun rises in the East and sets in the West...in no way changes that established fact of reality...
Everybody could believe the sun rises in the West and sets in the East, but this would not make it true. For anyone to say that what the Bible teaches was started at some certain year since the first century is pitiful Ignorance, and closing the eyes to established facts and truths. The teachings of the New Testament were started in the first century when God's dear Son was here on the earth. That is those truths were established in a group of believers then. But that is NOT where it started.
What God gave through his son was planned before the world began. Matt. 15: 34-35; John 17:24; Acts 3: 20-21; Rom 16: 25-26; I Cor. 2:7; Eph 1:4-5; Titus 1: 2; I Peter 1:18-21. "These truths make very clear that what God the Father... Jesus Christ, the Son of God... and the Holy Spirit believe in, and what God's true ministers and Christians believed in, was planned in the heart and mind of God before the world began, and we Believe the same TODAY. So, it is 100% False for anyone to say that What we Believe was started in some recent year." Dan Hilton. Letter 11/21/89
~~~ "We are NOT following some way Founded in the early 1900s, but it goes back to Christ. Jesus Himself set it up. Whether it was planted in the 1st Century, the 10th century or the 2Oth century, the message is the same, it produces the same thing." Tharold Sylvester 11/16/83 (USA worker)
~~~ "We are simply a Continuation of the Author of Truth." Harry Brownlee. 8/16/79 (USA worker)
~~~ "We are often asked who started this Church?" Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." Jesus gave us God's eternal plan of Salvation in its fullness. He is both the Author and Finisher. The Way is like a seed, like the wheat seed. It was Created at the beginning of the world. Dan H. 1/1/84 Burlington, WA. (USA)
~~~ "Don't you believe that something so Precious to God could be Preserved and Passed through his Beloved mouthpieces over any age and time? God's way is Eternal!" Cheryl L.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 12:20:23 GMT -5
Thanks for all the quotes of 2x2 preachers Nathan - Like I said above, very few 2x2 clegy have ever preached the gospel of God's word found v ery clearly in 1 Cor. 15 and therefore few 2x2s have ever known what the biblical gospel is - i.e., Jesus Christ and His work, not the 2x2 'right church' and THEIR "work" stuff.
Specifically;according to the scriptures.
"How that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose on the third day.": all 'according to the Old Testament' i.e., "according to the scriptures."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 13:10:30 GMT -5
[/quote] Ross.Bowden: Don't worry about Doug - he is already with the Lord and trusted in Him completely. As a result he had complete assurance when he died that Christ's righteousness would cover his sins completely on the Day of Judgement. From my discussions with Cherie over the years, she also trusts in Christ for her future.
Just focus on your own salvation as we are all asked to do.
I didn't leave the 2x2's because of Doug or Cherie. I'm thankful for what they have written and recorded, but we made our own decision to leave because what the workers preach did not line up with the Bible in key areas.
A relationship with Christ doesn't depend on membership of a particular group or church.
It's a personal thing between Christ and the individual - always has been and always will be.
[/quote][/font]
Sheesh, - regarding your Doug and Cherie commentary - Quite judgmental, don't you think? and how many times have we discussed and condemned 2x2's judgmentalism about another's salvation?
"Just focus on your own..." So you don't believe in proselytizing. Being concerned about other's salvation. Preaching the gospel, the fields are white, ripe, etc? It's clear what you mean to say is, shut up Nathan.
"... we - decision to leave because..." impatience, intolerance, lack of love, grace, understanding.
"A relationship .... - always has been and always will be." Just another incarnation of an "only right way" attitude and opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 13:34:29 GMT -5
It is not a solid place like the earth or one of the planets, we don't need such when we dead in the earthly body it is completely spiritual. I don't know.... is it? (completely spiritual) New Heaven, New earth, incorruptible body, many mansions.. the book of Revelations is of very tangible, solid stuff. To me it's pretty much a cop out to say, - well, it's beyond our understanding. Trust in me, I believe you'll like it.
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Post by fixit on Jul 4, 2020 15:10:16 GMT -5
Testimonies of workers through the years... ~~~ "We believe the apostles have Existed since Jesus sent forth the 70 disciples Two and Two." Richard Sullivan. (USA worker) ~~~ "It's from the beginning, planned in God's mind before creation. Walter Nelson. 1976 (USA worker) ~~~ "Was William Irvine the first in the way?" "I think William was among the first... I feel that God has had a Way on the earth since before the foundation of the earth... I don't believe William Irvine is the beginner of it." Bea Mokini. 1985 ( A native Hawaiian worker). ~~~ In answer to your question, "Where did this religion actually begin?" Was it with Jesus as we have been told in Gospel Meetings, or by a man name William Irvine in 1897? We believe Hebrews 12:2 "Looking to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." I would like to give you some references that mean a lot to me as we carry the Gospel to people and point them to something that is from the beginning and not to something started by Man. In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world was, and in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word" etc. So, there is NO date for the starting, as it was with the Heavenly Father before the world. Why would we want something started by a Man when we have in the scripture something that is from the beginning and the scripture to back it up? Doris B. letter, 1989 ~~~ "I never met William Irvine at any time and believe he was used of God, but was Never the Origin of what we believe. I understand he became too big in himself and Left the fellowship we love. Workers I know and respect preach only what Jesus lived and taught with no mention at all of William Irvine, or any other man and give only real appreciation for those who retell in our days things taught in Jesus' day. This faith began in New Testament days, neither in Ireland, Scotland or in the U.K. Roddy M. (Scotland Worker) letter dated 6/1/1995. ~~~ "William Irvine Did Not start this Church, it is from beginning, and the Way was just made evidence to him, then." Karen Tenniswood. 1996 (USA) ~~~ "However, regardless of a written record being preserved, Truth is Truth. If nobody believes it and or ... if everybody believes it. Whether or not a thing is believed in has nothing to do with its correctness. To use parable illustration, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. That is an established fact of existence. Whether or not people believe the sun rises in the East and sets in the West...in no way changes that established fact of reality... Everybody could believe the sun rises in the West and sets in the East, but this would not make it true. For anyone to say that what the Bible teaches was started at some certain year since the first century is pitiful Ignorance, and closing the eyes to established facts and truths. The teachings of the New Testament were started in the first century when God's dear Son was here on the earth. That is those truths were established in a group of believers then. But that is NOT where it started. What God gave through his son was planned before the world began. Matt. 15: 34-35; John 17:24; Acts 3: 20-21; Rom 16: 25-26; I Cor. 2:7; Eph 1:4-5; Titus 1: 2; I Peter 1:18-21. "These truths make very clear that what God the Father... Jesus Christ, the Son of God... and the Holy Spirit believe in, and what God's true ministers and Christians believed in, was planned in the heart and mind of God before the world began, and we Believe the same TODAY. So, it is 100% False for anyone to say that What we Believe was started in some recent year." Dan Hilton. Letter 11/21/89 ~~~ "We are NOT following some way Founded in the early 1900s, but it goes back to Christ. Jesus Himself set it up. Whether it was planted in the 1st Century, the 10th century or the 2Oth century, the message is the same, it produces the same thing." Tharold Sylvester 11/16/83 (USA worker) ~~~ "We are simply a Continuation of the Author of Truth." Harry Brownlee. 8/16/79 (USA worker) ~~~ "We are often asked who started this Church?" Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." Jesus gave us God's eternal plan of Salvation in its fullness. He is both the Author and Finisher. The Way is like a seed, like the wheat seed. It was Created at the beginning of the world. Dan H. 1/1/84 Burlington, WA. (USA) ~~~ "Don't you believe that something so Precious to God could be Preserved and Passed through his Beloved mouthpieces over any age and time? God's way is Eternal!" Cheryl L. All of this confusion reinforces, at least for me, the importance of Cherie's work to professionally document W&F history beginning with William Irvine's ministry. Truth can be rather inconvenient, but to worship God in truth we must rise above what is not true. Lies or untruths or partial truths have no part in true worship. God is spirit. To worship God in spirit we must rise above what we see and handle. When our worship is centered around physical things it is idolatry. John 4:23 But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 15:12:40 GMT -5
Currently, You believe a different Jesus than what I read in the New Testament Church, that is your choice.
I'm not sure which Bible you're reading - but it obviously contains extra references on workers and the need to profess through them. In the Bible I read, the Lord alone saves and adds to His church - all through Acts. As I understand it, your Bible also contains additional information on Venus, Jesus living inside hollow Venus and other strange(s) things. I'm happy to stick with my Bible and the saving work Jesus does. *** It's all in the teachings of Jesus, the gospels, the book of Acts, the epistles of the apostles, Matthew 10; Luke 10; Acts 10 and Romans 10:13-17. Jesus is alive and living interior planet is mentioned in Rev.22:15-16... This is the home they created where they God the Father, Christ, the Holy Spirit and all of the good angels of God abide/ the Center of the Universe. The earth is Christ will set up His ETERNAL kingdom with His chosen/born again when He returns.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 4, 2020 15:31:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure which Bible you're reading - but it obviously contains extra references on workers and the need to profess through them. In the Bible I read, the Lord alone saves and adds to His church - all through Acts. As I understand it, your Bible also contains additional information on Venus, Jesus living inside hollow Venus and other strange(s) things. I'm happy to stick with my Bible and the saving work Jesus does. *** It's all in the teachings of Jesus, the gospels, the book of Acts, the epistles of the apostles, Matthew 10; Luke 10; Acts 10 and Romans 10:13-17. Jesus is alive and living interior planet is mentioned in Rev.22:15-16... This is the home they created where they God the Father, Christ, the Holy Spirit and all of the good angels of God abide/ the Center of the Universe. The earth is Christ will set up His ETERNAL kingdom with His chosen/born again when He returns. Nathan, your comment about the centre of the Universe gave me a good chuckle. Obviously you think you know where it is. I suggest you get in contact with the worlds leading astro physicists and tell them.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 15:49:46 GMT -5
Testimonies of workers through the years... ~~~ "We believe the apostles have Existed since Jesus sent forth the 70 disciples Two and Two." Richard Sullivan. (USA worker) ~~~ "It's from the beginning, planned in God's mind before creation. Walter Nelson. 1976 (USA worker) ~~~ "Was William Irvine the first in the way?" "I think William was among the first... I feel that God has had a Way on the earth since before the foundation of the earth... I don't believe William Irvine is the beginner of it." Bea Mokini. 1985 ( A native Hawaiian worker). ~~~ In answer to your question, "Where did this religion actually begin?" Was it with Jesus as we have been told in Gospel Meetings, or by a man name William Irvine in 1897? We believe Hebrews 12:2 "Looking to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." I would like to give you some references that mean a lot to me as we carry the Gospel to people and point them to something that is from the beginning and not to something started by Man. In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world was, and in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word" etc. So, there is NO date for the starting, as it was with the Heavenly Father before the world. Why would we want something started by a Man when we have in the scripture something that is from the beginning and the scripture to back it up? Doris B. letter, 1989 ~~~ "I never met William Irvine at any time and believe he was used of God, but was Never the Origin of what we believe. I understand he became too big in himself and Left the fellowship we love. Workers I know and respect preach only what Jesus lived and taught with no mention at all of William Irvine, or any other man and give only real appreciation for those who retell in our days things taught in Jesus' day. This faith began in New Testament days, neither in Ireland, Scotland or in the U.K. Roddy M. (Scotland Worker) letter dated 6/1/1995. ~~~ "William Irvine Did Not start this Church, it is from beginning, and the Way was just made evidence to him, then." Karen Tenniswood. 1996 (USA) ~~~ "However, regardless of a written record being preserved, Truth is Truth. If nobody believes it and or ... if everybody believes it. Whether or not a thing is believed in has nothing to do with its correctness. To use parable illustration, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. That is an established fact of existence. Whether or not people believe the sun rises in the East and sets in the West...in no way changes that established fact of reality... Everybody could believe the sun rises in the West and sets in the East, but this would not make it true. For anyone to say that what the Bible teaches was started at some certain year since the first century is pitiful Ignorance, and closing the eyes to established facts and truths. The teachings of the New Testament were started in the first century when God's dear Son was here on the earth. That is those truths were established in a group of believers then. But that is NOT where it started. What God gave through his son was planned before the world began. Matt. 15: 34-35; John 17:24; Acts 3: 20-21; Rom 16: 25-26; I Cor. 2:7; Eph 1:4-5; Titus 1: 2; I Peter 1:18-21. "These truths make very clear that what God the Father... Jesus Christ, the Son of God... and the Holy Spirit believe in, and what God's true ministers and Christians believed in, was planned in the heart and mind of God before the world began, and we Believe the same TODAY. So, it is 100% False for anyone to say that What we Believe was started in some recent year." Dan Hilton. Letter 11/21/89 ~~~ "We are NOT following some way Founded in the early 1900s, but it goes back to Christ. Jesus Himself set it up. Whether it was planted in the 1st Century, the 10th century or the 2Oth century, the message is the same, it produces the same thing." Tharold Sylvester 11/16/83 (USA worker) ~~~ "We are simply a Continuation of the Author of Truth." Harry Brownlee. 8/16/79 (USA worker) ~~~ "We are often asked who started this Church?" Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." Jesus gave us God's eternal plan of Salvation in its fullness. He is both the Author and Finisher. The Way is like a seed, like the wheat seed. It was Created at the beginning of the world. Dan H. 1/1/84 Burlington, WA. (USA) ~~~ "Don't you believe that something so Precious to God could be Preserved and Passed through his Beloved mouthpieces over any age and time? God's way is Eternal!" Cheryl L. All of this confusion reinforces, at least for me, the importance of Cherie's work to professionally document W&F history beginning with William Irvine's ministry. Truth can be rather inconvenient, but to worship God in truth we must rise above what is not true. Lies or untruths or partial truths have no part in true worship. God is spirit. To worship God in spirit we must rise above what we see and handle. When our worship is centered around physical things it is idolatry. John 4:23 But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. ** As a 2x2 elder you don't truly/ fully understand Jesus and the apostles/workers New Testament teachings.
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Post by Grant on Jul 4, 2020 15:54:34 GMT -5
It's not Jesus and anyone Nathan, it's Jesus only. Don't you sing that hymn anymore in meetings or has that also been taken out of the hymn book.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 16:12:12 GMT -5
It's not Jesus and anyone Nathan, it's Jesus only. Don't you sing that hymn anymore in meetings or has that also been taken out of the hymn book. *** Jesus SAVES and the message of Salvation is still the same today. Jesus Christ the same as yesterday, today and forever... That was why jesus sent out the 12, 70 apostles/workers and the Holy Spirit has been sending out more apostles in the book of Acts and through down the centuries even in our days... His apostles/workers and people/True followers will continue to share the gospel Jesus SAVES to the time of Jesus returns.
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Post by Grant on Jul 4, 2020 16:28:40 GMT -5
The Gospel is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, Nathan. The Gospel is not the ministry. The ministry preachers the Gospel message only it is not the Gospel. The ministry is not a method, but preaches the message.
As well as straying from the Trinity the workers also strayed from preaching Jesus is the way to saying they are the way. Like you've done here, you've gone from Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever to his ministry is. It's Jesus who is, not the ministry. The workers are far from the NT ministry. The workers ministry has largely died as far as reaching the so called lost which was to continue until Jesus comes.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 4, 2020 17:57:50 GMT -5
All of these quotes that you post, nathan, of early workers and early days - how did you come by them? Do you only have them because of Cherie and Doug's work? You need to be completely honest - no half-truths or cutting and pasting endless paragraphs of previous postings, please. Just the simple truth.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 18:02:37 GMT -5
All of these quotes that you post, nathan, of early workers and early days - how did you come by them? Do you only have them because of Cherie and Doug's work? You need to be completely honest - no half-truths or cutting and pasting endless paragraphs of previous postings, please. Just the simple truth. ** It was on Cherie's TTT Website but I can find a lot of these inforation through 2x2 workers sermons convention notes, gospel meetings, letters on workers sermons website also.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 18:16:09 GMT -5
All of this confusion reinforces, at least for me, the importance of Cherie's work to professionally document W&F history beginning with William Irvine's ministry. Truth can be rather inconvenient, but to worship God in truth we must rise above what is not true. Lies or untruths or partial truths have no part in true worship. God is spirit. To worship God in spirit we must rise above what we see and handle. When our worship is centered around physical things it is idolatry. John 4:23 But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. 24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. ** As a 2x2 elder you don't truly/ fully understand Jesus and the apostles/workers New Testament teachings. He understands well the importance of ‘acknowledging truth’ and not passing on the spin re the beginnings to others.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 4, 2020 18:21:06 GMT -5
All of these quotes that you post, nathan , of early workers and early days - how did you come by them? Do you only have them because of Cherie and Doug's work? You need to be completely honest - no half-truths or cutting and pasting endless paragraphs of previous postings, please. Just the simple truth. ** It was on Cherie's TTT Website but I can find a lot of these inforation through 2x2 workers sermons convention notes, gospel meetings, letters on workers sermons website also. So all of the early days accounts you copy (I assume without permission) from Cherie's website and copy it publicly on here, and use it to spin your own version of the truth, while condemning Cherie and Doug for the work they have done? Their work is historian work, Nathan, all carefully documented for sources, times and places. I suspect you have little idea just how hard it would have been for you to source those early day letters. No, you would not have gotten them from a workers sermons website. Your words, on the other hand, are just your own interpretation of scripture applied to history to twist it to fit your own worldview. Which, so far, I haven't found one single other person on the planet who agrees with your package. So to call their evidence based historian work "not the whole truth", but to claim that you alone have the "whole truth" is ... [can't think of anything to say that wouldn't be extremely insulting.] I will say it is extremely insulting that your "work" be compared with theirs in any way, in terms of truth or evidence. In this vein I do commend speak for calling you out on your completely unbiblical and unsubstantiated claims of Venus et al.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 18:34:02 GMT -5
Read below: why many folk are saddened and disappointed ( yes some have stronger emotions because of it) with the dishonesty of the early workers who managed to pass these fabrications down to the next line of workers who innocently believed the spin. Who then preached to grandparents, parents WHO professed believing that doctrine. Testimonies of workers through the years... ~~~ "We believe the apostles have Existed since Jesus sent forth the 70 disciples Two and Two." Richard Sullivan. (USA worker) ~~~ "It's from the beginning, planned in God's mind before creation. Walter Nelson. 1976 (USA worker) ~~~ "Was William Irvine the first in the way?" "I think William was among the first... I feel that God has had a Way on the earth since before the foundation of the earth... I don't believe William Irvine is the beginner of it." Bea Mokini. 1985 ( A native Hawaiian worker). ~~~ In answer to your question, "Where did this religion actually begin?" Was it with Jesus as we have been told in Gospel Meetings, or by a man name William Irvine in 1897? We believe Hebrews 12:2 "Looking to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." I would like to give you some references that mean a lot to me as we carry the Gospel to people and point them to something that is from the beginning and not to something started by Man. In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world was, and in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word" etc. So, there is NO date for the starting, as it was with the Heavenly Father before the world. Why would we want something started by a Man when we have in the scripture something that is from the beginning and the scripture to back it up? Doris B. letter, 1989 ~~~ "I never met William Irvine at any time and believe he was used of God, but was Never the Origin of what we believe. I understand he became too big in himself and Left the fellowship we love. Workers I know and respect preach only what Jesus lived and taught with no mention at all of William Irvine, or any other man and give only real appreciation for those who retell in our days things taught in Jesus' day. This faith began in New Testament days, neither in Ireland, Scotland or in the U.K. Roddy M. (Scotland Worker) letter dated 6/1/1995. ~~~ "William Irvine Did Not start this Church, it is from beginning, and the Way was just made evidence to him, then." Karen Tenniswood. 1996 (USA) ~~~ "However, regardless of a written record being preserved, Truth is Truth. If nobody believes it and or ... if everybody believes it. Whether or not a thing is believed in has nothing to do with its correctness. To use parable illustration, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. That is an established fact of existence. Whether or not people believe the sun rises in the East and sets in the West...in no way changes that established fact of reality... Everybody could believe the sun rises in the West and sets in the East, but this would not make it true. For anyone to say that what the Bible teaches was started at some certain year since the first century is pitiful Ignorance, and closing the eyes to established facts and truths. The teachings of the New Testament were started in the first century when God's dear Son was here on the earth. That is those truths were established in a group of believers then. But that is NOT where it started. What God gave through his son was planned before the world began. Matt. 15: 34-35; John 17:24; Acts 3: 20-21; Rom 16: 25-26; I Cor. 2:7; Eph 1:4-5; Titus 1: 2; I Peter 1:18-21. "These truths make very clear that what God the Father... Jesus Christ, the Son of God... and the Holy Spirit believe in, and what God's true ministers and Christians believed in, was planned in the heart and mind of God before the world began, and we Believe the same TODAY. So, it is 100% False for anyone to say that What we Believe was started in some recent year." Dan Hilton. Letter 11/21/89 ~~~ "We are NOT following some way Founded in the early 1900s, but it goes back to Christ. Jesus Himself set it up. Whether it was planted in the 1st Century, the 10th century or the 2Oth century, the message is the same, it produces the same thing." Tharold Sylvester 11/16/83 (USA worker) ~~~ "We are simply a Continuation of the Author of Truth." Harry Brownlee. 8/16/79 (USA worker) ~~~ "We are often asked who started this Church?" Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith." Jesus gave us God's eternal plan of Salvation in its fullness. He is both the Author and Finisher. The Way is like a seed, like the wheat seed. It was Created at the beginning of the world. Dan H. 1/1/84 Burlington, WA. (USA) ~~~ "Don't you believe that something so Precious to God could be Preserved and Passed through his Beloved mouthpieces over any age and time? God's way is Eternal!" Cheryl L. ** I have shown the friends and workers historical documents of Jesus 2x2 history, docrines, belief through the centuries when I was in still in the work in 1990s. These testimonies of workers shared on here came to them by revelation from God. Most of them did NOT know or believe there are any records have been preserved to our days... In 1980s I read One of the professing Canadian historian professor on the early Christians... Then when I was in the work 1990s my older co-worker and I heard a non 2x2 historian professor gave a lecture on the same early Christians Vaudois faith, belief very similar to 2x2 workers and friends. After I left the work I did more study and research on the Vaudois/Waldenses I was so astonish at their doctrines so similar to the 2x2s workers and the friends. Through studying John Long Journal, the Faith Mission, and the friends writings I began to put a time line of Jesus 2x2 apostles/workers through the centuries to NOW.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 18:42:06 GMT -5
Read below: why many folk are saddened and disappointed ( yes some have stronger emotions because of it) with the dishonesty of the early workers who managed to pass these fabrications down to the next line of workers who innocently believed the spin. Who then preached to grandparents, parents WHO professed believing that doctrine. ** I have shown the friends and workers historical documents of Jesus 2x2 history, docrines, belief through the centuries when I was in still in the work in 1990s. These testimonies of workers shared on here came to them by revelation from God. Most of them did NOT know or believe there are any records have been preserved to our days... In 1980s I read One of the professing Canadian historian professor on the early Christians... Then when I was in the work 1990s my older co-worker and I heard a non 2x2 historian professor gave a lecture on the same early Christians Vaudois faith, belief very similar to 2x2 workers and friends. After I left the work I did more study and research on the Vaudois/Waldenses I was so astonish at their doctrines so similar to the 2x2s workers and the friends. Through studying John Long Journal, the Faith Mission, and the friends writings I began to put a time line of Jesus 2x2 apostles/workers through the centuries to NOW. What you have ‘shown’ anybody or ‘told’ anybody for years or how many times you post it, does not make it fact. But really many posters have tried in vain to convey that point to you. When I read that record of the old worker’s preaching, it brings to mind: Oh oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 18:43:58 GMT -5
** It was on Cherie's TTT Website but I can find a lot of these inforation through 2x2 workers sermons convention notes, gospel meetings, letters on workers sermons website also. So all of the early days accounts you copy (I assume without permission) from Cherie's website and copy it publicly on here, and use it to spin your own version of the truth, while condemning Cherie and Doug for the work they have done? Their work is historian work, Nathan, all carefully documented for sources, times and places. I suspect you have little idea just how hard it would have been for you to source those early day letters. No, you would not have gotten them from a workers sermons website. Your words, on the other hand, are just your own interpretation of scripture applied to history to twist it to fit your own worldview. Which, so far, I haven't found one single other person on the planet who agrees with your package. So to call their evidence based historian work "not the whole truth", but to claim that you alone have the "whole truth" is ... [can't think of anything to say that wouldn't be extremely insulting.] I will say it is extremely insulting that your "work" be compared with theirs in any way, in terms of truth or evidence. In this vein I do commend speak for calling you out on your completely unbiblical and unsubstantiated claims of Venus et al. A lot of Cherie TTT information was posted on the truth message board and I copied it. I point out where Cherie, Doug P. you and many exes had gone wrong with their books and websites.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 18:46:06 GMT -5
** I have shown the friends and workers historical documents of Jesus 2x2 history, docrines, belief through the centuries when I was in still in the work in 1990s. These testimonies of workers shared on here came to them by revelation from God. Most of them did NOT know or believe there are any records have been preserved to our days... In 1980s I read One of the professing Canadian historian professor on the early Christians... Then when I was in the work 1990s my older co-worker and I heard a non 2x2 historian professor gave a lecture on the same early Christians Vaudois faith, belief very similar to 2x2 workers and friends. After I left the work I did more study and research on the Vaudois/Waldenses I was so astonish at their doctrines so similar to the 2x2s workers and the friends. Through studying John Long Journal, the Faith Mission, and the friends writings I began to put a time line of Jesus 2x2 apostles/workers through the centuries to NOW. What you have shown anyybody or told anybody for years or how many times you post it, does not make it fact. But really many posters have tried in vain to convey that point to you. When I read that record of the old worker’s preaching, it brings to mind: Oh oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive.
** I am here to educate, inform and warn people if you don't believe it then that is your choice, I have done my part.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jul 4, 2020 18:47:41 GMT -5
What you have shown anyybody or told anybody for years or how many times you post it, does not make it fact. But really many posters have tried in vain to convey that point to you. When I read that record of the old worker’s preaching, it brings to mind: Oh oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive.
** I am here to educate, inform and warn people if you don't believe it then that is your choice, I have done my part.
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Post by chuck on Jul 4, 2020 19:02:40 GMT -5
Read below: why many folk are saddened and disappointed ( yes some have stronger emotions because of it) with the dishonesty of the early workers who managed to pass these fabrications down to the next line of workers who innocently believed the spin. Who then preached to grandparents, parents WHO professed believing that doctrine. ** I have shown the friends and workers historical documents of Jesus 2x2 history, docrines, belief through the centuries when I was in still in the work in 1990s. These testimonies of workers shared on here came to them by revelation from God. Most of them did NOT know or believe there are any records have been preserved to our days... In 1980s I read One of the professing Canadian historian professor on the early Christians... Then when I was in the work 1990s my older co-worker and I heard a non 2x2 historian professor gave a lecture on the same early Christians Vaudois faith, belief very similar to 2x2 workers and friends. After I left the work I did more study and research on the Vaudois/Waldenses I was so astonish at their doctrines so similar to the 2x2s workers and the friends. Through studying John Long Journal, the Faith Mission, and the friends writings I began to put a time line of Jesus 2x2 apostles/workers through the centuries to NOW. Nathan nothing you say lines up with the Revelation of God to the Hebrew people in the scriptures. You are back with Abraham worshipping the sun/moon and sacrificing children so to speak. We see it regularly here, you sacrificing people to please your sky god!. You, like some workers with your god complex have zero authority over lives. Stop pretending you do, it is evil. Go and study Hebrew history, culture and lore before you sacrifice any more lives.
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Post by nathan on Jul 4, 2020 19:41:02 GMT -5
** I have shown the friends and workers historical documents of Jesus 2x2 history, docrines, belief through the centuries when I was in still in the work in 1990s. These testimonies of workers shared on here came to them by revelation from God. Most of them did NOT know or believe there are any records have been preserved to our days... In 1980s I read One of the professing Canadian historian professor on the early Christians... Then when I was in the work 1990s my older co-worker and I heard a non 2x2 historian professor gave a lecture on the same early Christians Vaudois faith, belief very similar to 2x2 workers and friends. After I left the work I did more study and research on the Vaudois/Waldenses I was so astonish at their doctrines so similar to the 2x2s workers and the friends. Through studying John Long Journal, the Faith Mission, and the friends writings I began to put a time line of Jesus 2x2 apostles/workers through the centuries to NOW. Nathan nothing you say lines up with the Revelation of God to the Hebrew people in the scriptures. You are back with Abraham worshipping the sun/moon and sacrificing children so to speak. We see it regularly here, you sacrificing people to please your sky god!.You, like some workers with your god complex have zero authority over lives. Stop pretending you do, it is evil.
Go and study Hebrew history, culture and lore before you sacrifice any more lives. I have no clue what you are sprouting here, Chuck. Your non-2x2 exclusive belief is getting out of control and don't make any sense.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 4, 2020 20:18:21 GMT -5
This is such a strange statement, Nathan. Did Cherie and Doug tell lies about the history, or did they tell the truth? Did the workers tell the truth about the history, or did they lie? Who is the father of lies? When, and how, did Cherie and Doug do wrong? They did NOT TELL the WHOLE Truth of the 2x2 history....They did NOT share this part as the purpose of the early days workers, the friends and William Irvine where they want to follow Jesus 2x2 apostlic/workers ministry and fellowship.
Nathan, -something that you simply do NOT understand is that both Cherie and Doug was telling the "history" of the early days workers!
THAT is what historians do!
The aim of historians is to be true to the facts but not they are not supposed to express their own ideas as to what they think!
Cherie has always been very true to that standard! Doug Parker did the same.
In fact, -my neighbor was asking about the beliefs of the church which I had left, so I gave her Parker's book to read.
She noted that he told the history but not a lot of beliefs etc.
I wish that you would just appreciate all the research that Cherie and Doug did instead of constantly denigrating the excellent unbiased work that they accomplished.
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