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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 2:28:25 GMT -5
I got my message from reading His words, mediating, praying to God.... We are living in the 21st century! youtube and internet is another way to get messages and learning from others... you can reach millions of people with message boards in a matter of seconds. God gives us brains so, let us use it, fixit.
If god gave gave us brains, did he forget to show you how use yours? And How about you? You didn't use it wisely at all, you refused to believe in the ONE who gave you the brain. You just waste one of the most precious brain that God gives to you down the toilet.
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Post by ant_rotten on Mar 14, 2020 2:57:28 GMT -5
If god gave gave us brains, did he forget to show you how use yours? And How about you? You didn't use it wisely at all, you refused to believe in the ONE who gave you the brain. You just waste one of the most precious brain that God gives to you down the toilet. I use my brain every day, sifting through the nonsense that I see on TMB.. it’s from using my brain that I am who I am today.. an atheist.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 14, 2020 3:18:08 GMT -5
I still can't figure out what you meant by "an authentication factor used is the factor of embarrassment or shame. It seems that in Josephus’ works there was something to do with that angle."
I know the remark that he made and I can't understand what you mean by your statement. youtu.be/XAN3kQHTKWI STRPlease state it your own words. I just don't have the time to listen to that whole thing looking for what you meant.
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Post by snow on Mar 14, 2020 13:59:37 GMT -5
Oh, really? Sounds like STR had a great dream. And when has anyone on this board or Ehrman himself stated Jesus doesn’t exist? He’s a scholar that argues that Jesus existed. Shows your lack of understanding of a person you keep calling a quack!! Yes, a few on readers on TMB have said Jesus did NOT existed and we went round and round with them. They used Bart as their golden boy.They would be wrong to use Bart. He argues quite emphatically for a historical Jesus. If you'd bothered to listen to the video you would have known that this was what the debate was about and Bart was arguing against a mythical Jesus.
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Post by snow on Mar 14, 2020 14:03:26 GMT -5
It's a COP OUT! but WE KNOW what Bart believes. He is NOT a Christian but an agnostic with an atheist leanings!
As you say, he is an agnostic but that doesn’t mean that therefore he denies Jesus existed as a historical figure. It’s possible you know (there are MANY people out there who hold the same position.) He simply does not believe Jesus was divine/the son of a god. But he does believe that the Jews did believe that, except based on something totally different from how Christians see it.
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Post by snow on Mar 14, 2020 14:06:01 GMT -5
I think most of the readers on TMB KNOW I am for real and NOT a fraud by NOW for 20 years. Ah, but it's always possible that the real Nathan is gone and a bot took over his posting. That would explain all the new stuff he never used to believe in and all the cut and paste. (jk Nathan)
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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 14:36:19 GMT -5
I think most of the readers on TMB KNOW I am for real and NOT a fraud by NOW for 20 years. Ah, but it's always possible that the real Nathan is gone and a bot took over his posting. That would explain all the new stuff he never used to believe in and all the cut and paste. (jk Nathan) Nope, the same Nathan for 20 yrs.... I copy and paste for long, long time but I did by hands typing word for word... Those were rough days! My understanding and knowledge on many different topics are increasing every day...
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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 14:38:17 GMT -5
Yes, a few on readers on TMB have said Jesus did NOT existed and we went round and round with them. They used Bart as their golden boy. They would be wrong to use Bart. He argues quite emphatically for a historical Jesus. If you'd bothered to listen to the video you would have known that this was what the debate was about and Bart was arguing against a mythical Jesus. And I have shown proof that Bart is incorrect, that Jesus is an actual person and he is ALIVE today! Christ/God Jesus is ETERNAL and he can't die, he is Spirit like God the Father, who is Spirit also so, is the Holy Spirit. THEY are ETERNAL Spirit/Yahweh God.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2020 14:42:41 GMT -5
Yes, a few on readers on TMB have said Jesus did NOT existed and we went round and round with them. They used Bart as their golden boy. They would be wrong to use Bart. He argues quite emphatically for a historical Jesus. If you'd bothered to listen to the video you would have known that this was what the debate was about and Bart was arguing against a mythical Jesus. It kind of verifies that some are not interested in the point made in a post and rush to write stuff in their own head. The same applies to getting posts out of context, by not absorbing correctly or deliberately overlooking the point. I notice it happens quite a lot on here Snow.
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Post by snow on Mar 14, 2020 14:45:45 GMT -5
They would be wrong to use Bart. He argues quite emphatically for a historical Jesus. If you'd bothered to listen to the video you would have known that this was what the debate was about and Bart was arguing against a mythical Jesus. And I have shown proof that Bart is incorrect, that Jesus is an actual person and he is ALIVE today! Christ/God Jesus is ETERNAL and he can't die, he is Spirit like God the Father, who is Spirit also so, is the Holy Spirit. THEY are ETERNAL Spirit/Yahweh God.Nathan what aren't you understanding? You and Bart agree, Jesus was a historical figure. He has never said otherwise and in fact debates those who do say otherwise to prove that Jesus was a historical figure.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Mar 14, 2020 14:50:12 GMT -5
As you say, he is an agnostic but that doesn’t mean that therefore he denies Jesus existed as a historical figure. It’s possible you know (there are MANY people out there who hold the same position.) He simply does not believe Jesus was divine/the son of a god. But he does believe that the Jews did believe that, except based on something totally different from how Christians see it. Some of the Jews were forceably make him their king. So in accordance with Snow’s comment the Jews did think their rulers were gods or were anointed by God.
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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 15:27:35 GMT -5
And I have shown proof that Bart is incorrect, that Jesus is an actual person and he is ALIVE today! Christ/God Jesus is ETERNAL and he can't die, he is Spirit like God the Father, who is Spirit also so, is the Holy Spirit. THEY are ETERNAL Spirit/Yahweh God. Nathan what aren't you understanding? You and Bart agree, Jesus was a historical figure. He has never said otherwise and in fact debates those who do say otherwise to prove that Jesus was a historical figure. I believe Christ God and man/Jesus; Jesus is both the Son of God/Christ and the son of Man/Jesus. Bart doesn't believe that. Bart put a lot of doubts on if Jesus was truly a historical figure himself.
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Post by snow on Mar 14, 2020 16:16:15 GMT -5
Nathan what aren't you understanding? You and Bart agree, Jesus was a historical figure. He has never said otherwise and in fact debates those who do say otherwise to prove that Jesus was a historical figure. I believe Christ God and man/Jesus; Jesus is both the Son of God/Christ and the son of Man/Jesus. Bart doesn't believe that. Bart put a lot of doubts on if Jesus was truly a historical figure himself.Actually no, Bart does say that Jesus followers did believe he was raised to the status of God, others believed he was raised to that status at his baptism and other's believed it was at his resurrection. Still others believed it was from the beginning. Bart covers all that and more and has never said that Jesus might not have existed. He does point out the various early Christian beliefs because he is after all an historian. There were even some that didn't believe Jesus was a flesh and blood person and that's why in Acts that is stressed quite emphatically. So there you have it. Bart agrees with you as to what was believed by early Christians.
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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 16:32:25 GMT -5
I believe Christ God and man/Jesus; Jesus is both the Son of God/Christ and the son of Man/Jesus. Bart doesn't believe that. Bart put a lot of doubts on if Jesus was truly a historical figure himself. Actually no, Bart does say that Jesus followers did believe he was raised to the status of God, others believed he was raised to that status at his baptism and other's believed it was at his resurrection. Still others believed it was from the beginning. Bart covers all that and more and has never said that Jesus might not have existed. He does point out the various early Christian beliefs because he is after all an historian. There were even some that didn't believe Jesus was a flesh and blood person and that's why in Acts that is stressed quite emphatically. So there you have it. Bart agrees with you as to what was believed by early Christians. Bart doesn't KNOW what he believes really. He has too many ideas, and all kinds of belief about Jesus in his head. He is standing on the fence so, he doesn't offend anyone's belief.
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Post by snow on Mar 14, 2020 17:08:07 GMT -5
Actually no, Bart does say that Jesus followers did believe he was raised to the status of God, others believed he was raised to that status at his baptism and other's believed it was at his resurrection. Still others believed it was from the beginning. Bart covers all that and more and has never said that Jesus might not have existed. He does point out the various early Christian beliefs because he is after all an historian. There were even some that didn't believe Jesus was a flesh and blood person and that's why in Acts that is stressed quite emphatically. So there you have it. Bart agrees with you as to what was believed by early Christians. Bart doesn't KNOW what he believes really. He has too many ideas, and all kinds of belief about Jesus in his head. He is standing on the fence so, he doesn't offend anyone's belief.Nathan, you miss the point. He's an historian. He is relating what happened, the various beliefs of that time from the documents he's studied over the years. Many early Christian thought never made the bible and we get this information mostly from the RCC writing about the different groups, what they believed and why they were considered heretical by the RCC. So of course he relates what he learned about all the different beliefs. That's what an historian does.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2020 17:23:17 GMT -5
i haven't listened to much of what bart has said but i do believe that snow and the others are right he has said Jesus existed, just not as the Son of God...
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Post by believingjesus on Mar 14, 2020 17:56:09 GMT -5
Nathan what aren't you understanding? You and Bart agree, Jesus was a historical figure. He has never said otherwise and in fact debates those who do say otherwise to prove that Jesus was a historical figure. Bart put a lot of doubts on if Jesus was truly a historical figure himself.Do you bother to read anyone posts or are you really just that dense? NO, HE DIDN’T. He wrote a whole book arguing against mythicists FOR Jesus being a historical figure (as in someone who existed if you don’t know what that means).
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Post by believingjesus on Mar 14, 2020 18:05:26 GMT -5
Actually no, Bart does say that Jesus followers did believe he was raised to the status of God, others believed he was raised to that status at his baptism and other's believed it was at his resurrection. Still others believed it was from the beginning. Bart covers all that and more and has never said that Jesus might not have existed. He does point out the various early Christian beliefs because he is after all an historian. There were even some that didn't believe Jesus was a flesh and blood person and that's why in Acts that is stressed quite emphatically. So there you have it. Bart agrees with you as to what was believed by early Christians. Bart doesn't KNOW what he believes really. He has too many ideas, and all kinds of belief about Jesus in his head. He is standing on the fence so, he doesn't offend anyone's belief.Ehrman knows exactly where he stands on Jesus and he couldn’t care less about offending Christians. Ehrman’s position is Jesus was a historical figure who was an itinerant preacher, not a god or the son of a god.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 14, 2020 18:26:27 GMT -5
And I have shown proof that Bart is incorrect, that Jesus is an actual person and he is ALIVE today! Christ/God Jesus is ETERNAL and he can't die, he is Spirit like God the Father, who is Spirit also so, is the Holy Spirit. THEY are ETERNAL Spirit/Yahweh God. Nathan what aren't you understanding? You and Bart agree, Jesus was a historical figure. He has never said otherwise and in fact debates those who do say otherwise to prove that Jesus was a historical figure. One of the problems of poor readers is that they miss a lot of stuff that proves their own point. Then they look even stupider than necessary.
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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 18:26:56 GMT -5
Bart doesn't KNOW what he believes really. He has too many ideas, and all kinds of belief about Jesus in his head. He is standing on the fence so, he doesn't offend anyone's belief. Ehrman knows exactly where he stands on Jesus and he couldn’t care less about offending Christians. Ehrman’s position is Jesus was a historical figure who was an itinerant preacher, not a god or the son of a god. The Christ myth theory is the view that "the story of Jesus is a piece of mythology," possessing no "substantial claims to historical fact."[95] Alternatively, in terms given by Bart Ehrman paraphrasing Earl Doherty, "the historical Jesus did not exist. Or if he did, he had virtually nothing to do with the founding of Christianity."[96]
Most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted,[2][18][97] and in modern scholarship, the Christ myth theory is a fringe theory and finds virtually no support from scholars.[98][99][100][101][note 2]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
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Post by sharingtheriches on Mar 14, 2020 18:39:16 GMT -5
STRPlease state it your own words. I just don't have the time to listen to that whole thing looking for what you meant.
Criteria of embarrassment. Facts from an hostile source affirming that an incident happened. It’s at 43:10. youtu.be/XAN3kQHTKWI
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Post by sharingtheriches on Mar 14, 2020 18:45:42 GMT -5
They would be wrong to use Bart. He argues quite emphatically for a historical Jesus. If you'd bothered to listen to the video you would have known that this was what the debate was about and Bart was arguing against a mythical Jesus. And I have shown proof that Bart is incorrect, that Jesus is an actual person and he is ALIVE today! Christ/God Jesus is ETERNAL and he can't die, he is Spirit like God the Father, who is Spirit also so, is the Holy Spirit. THEY are ETERNAL Spirit/Yahweh God.Dr. Bauer would say Ehrman is a hostile source that has proven the fact that Jesus is not a myth. Many people do not see or believe Jesus is or was God incarnate. The Jews didn’t , most still don’t. Does it matter? According to some biblical scholars it doesn’t matter unto salvation. But it only opens the door to understanding who God truly is. “God in three persons.” Not three persons are God.
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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 18:51:48 GMT -5
Ehrman knows exactly where he stands on Jesus and he couldn’t care less about offending Christians. Ehrman’s position is Jesus was a historical figure who was an itinerant preacher, not a god or the son of a god. The Christ myth theory is the view that "the story of Jesus is a piece of mythology," possessing no "substantial claims to historical fact."[95] Alternatively, in terms given by Bart Ehrman paraphrasing Earl Doherty, "the historical Jesus did not exist. Or if he did, he had virtually nothing to do with the founding of Christianity."[96]
Most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted,[2][18][97] and in modern scholarship, the Christ myth theory is a fringe theory and finds virtually no support from scholars.[98][99][100][101][note 2]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 20:05:28 GMT -5
And I have shown proof that Bart is incorrect, that Jesus is an actual person and he is ALIVE today! Christ/God Jesus is ETERNAL and he can't die, he is Spirit like God the Father, who is Spirit also so, is the Holy Spirit. THEY are ETERNAL Spirit/Yahweh God. Dr. Bauer would say Ehrman is a hostile source that has proven the fact that Jesus is not a myth. Many people do not see or believe Jesus is or was God incarnate. The Jews didn’t , most still don’t. Does it matter? According to some biblical scholars it doesn’t matter unto salvation. But it only opens the door to understanding who God truly is. “God in three persons.” Not three persons are God. Does this make more sense to say the Godhead is God the Father, Christ the Lord God and Savior and the Holy Spirit.
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Post by ant_rotten on Mar 14, 2020 20:07:58 GMT -5
And I have shown proof that Bart is incorrect, that Jesus is an actual person and he is ALIVE today! Christ/God Jesus is ETERNAL and he can't die, he is Spirit like God the Father, who is Spirit also so, is the Holy Spirit. THEY are ETERNAL Spirit/Yahweh God. Dr. Bauer would say Ehrman is a hostile source that has proven the fact that Jesus is not a myth. Many people do not see or believe Jesus is or was God incarnate. The Jews didn’t , most still don’t. Does it matter? According to some biblical scholars it doesn’t matter unto salvation. But it only opens the door to understanding who God truly is. “God in three persons.” Not three persons are God. What do you mean by your first comment, “Dr. Bauer would say Ehrman is a hostile source that has proven the fact that Jesus is not a myth.”?
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Post by ant_rotten on Mar 14, 2020 20:10:53 GMT -5
i haven't listened to much of what bart has said but i do believe that snow and the others are right he has said Jesus existed, just not as the Son of God... Thank you. Please explain that to Nathan..
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Post by ant_rotten on Mar 14, 2020 20:13:23 GMT -5
Actually no, Bart does say that Jesus followers did believe he was raised to the status of God, others believed he was raised to that status at his baptism and other's believed it was at his resurrection. Still others believed it was from the beginning. Bart covers all that and more and has never said that Jesus might not have existed. He does point out the various early Christian beliefs because he is after all an historian. There were even some that didn't believe Jesus was a flesh and blood person and that's why in Acts that is stressed quite emphatically. So there you have it. Bart agrees with you as to what was believed by early Christians. Bart doesn't KNOW what he believes really. He has too many ideas, and all kinds of belief about Jesus in his head. He is standing on the fence so, he doesn't offend anyone's belief. You have no idea what you talking about. For someone who doesn’t even like Ehrman, you sure claim to know a lot about him. I suggest you stop with nonsense as you are making yourself look stupid..
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Post by nathan on Mar 14, 2020 20:31:24 GMT -5
Bart doesn't KNOW what he believes really. He has too many ideas, and all kinds of belief about Jesus in his head. He is standing on the fence so, he doesn't offend anyone's belief. You have no idea what you talking about. For someone who doesn’t even like Ehrman, you sure claim to know a lot about him. I suggest you stop with nonsense as you are making yourself look stupid.. Maybe it is you!The Christ myth theory is the view that "the story of Jesus is a piece of mythology," possessing no "substantial claims to historical fact."[95] Alternatively, in terms given by Bart Ehrman paraphrasing Earl Doherty, "the historical Jesus did not exist. Or if he did, he had virtually nothing to do with the founding of Christianity."[96] Most biblical scholars and classical historians see the theories of his non-existence as effectively refuted,[2][18][97] and in modern scholarship, the Christ myth theory is a fringe theory and finds virtually no support from scholars.[98][99][100][101][note 2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
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