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Post by Get off of TMB on May 13, 2019 5:01:01 GMT -5
I am not able to repost it. But he did write a brief letter claiming that the problem would be taken care of...It is brief and shows little remorse that this scourge has afflicted the fellowship in Australia.
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Post by CherieKropp on May 13, 2019 8:00:52 GMT -5
Dear Friends
We want to be in touch with you all, to address any confusion that may have arisen regarding how we deal with child sexual abuse cases. (CSA)
All the matters raised in the media had already been dealt with by the legal authorities.
All our workers have already received professional training on what action to take in the event of any allegations of inappropriate behavior toward children. We will continue to abide by all legal reporting requirements.
We will also continue to support any official investigation into such matters and the outcomes that they arrive at.
Yours sincerely
Allan Kitto
on behalf of the NSW Staff
3 May 2019
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Post by Pragmatic on May 13, 2019 15:16:07 GMT -5
Dear Friends We want to be in touch with you all, to address any confusion that may have arisen regarding how we deal with child sexual abuse cases. (CSA) All the matters raised in the media had already been dealt with by the legal authorities. All our workers have already received professional training on what action to take in the event of any allegations of inappropriate behavior toward children. We will continue to abide by all legal reporting requirements. We will also continue to support any official investigation into such matters and the outcomes that they arrive at. Yours sincerely Allan Kitto on behalf of the NSW Staff 3 May 2019 Sounds like Muilenberg, of Boeing. |
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Post by nathan on May 13, 2019 17:22:57 GMT -5
Dear Friends We want to be in touch with you all, to address any confusion that may have arisen regarding how we deal with child sexual abuse cases. (CSA) All the matters raised in the media had already been dealt with by the legal authorities. All our workers have already received professional training on what action to take in the event of any allegations of inappropriate behavior toward children. We will continue to abide by all legal reporting requirements. We will also continue to support any official investigation into such matters and the outcomes that they arrive at. Yours sincerely Allan Kitto on behalf of the NSW Staff 3 May 2019 Sounds like Muilenberg, of Boeing. ** Give a guy a break! Why, do have to be so negative to your overseers? The guy is trying to fix the problem, hoping the rest of the workers over there follow the laws guidance. |
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Post by Get off of TMB on May 13, 2019 17:29:11 GMT -5
The friends need to be told upfront that they will NOT be asked to not take part if they report CSA.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 13, 2019 18:56:10 GMT -5
Sounds like Muilenberg, of Boeing. ** Give a guy a break! Why, do have so negative to your overseers? The guy is trying to fix the problem, hoping the rest of the workers over there follow the laws guidance. No he's not. He's trying to preserve what would would otherwise crumble. Otherwise, he would have done it sooner. And he never promised to invite back those who were threatened with ex-communication, and felt forced to leave. He never promised to stop that practise. He never promised that those who reported CSA would not be sanctioned in some way, as has been happening.
Like Muilenberg, he's probably sorry that these things happened, but it's obvious that his first duty is to the organisation, not the victims.
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Post by magpie1 on May 13, 2019 19:14:54 GMT -5
A letter of admission would sink the last of the sect. They are avoiding the fact that the mentally disordered are still amongst their "WORLDWIDE MINISTRY"and lots more sister/brother workers would have to leave. Also they are @#$%^#$%^ scared to put their name on the Redress list. .. nationalredress.gov.au .. cause all those false religions they preach about would be beside them... magpie |
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Post by Ross.Bowden on May 13, 2019 20:10:24 GMT -5
Allan Kitto's statement, released at Sunday morning meetings in NSW on 5 May 2019, does nothing to acknowledge or address the awful sexual abuse of children that has occurred in the "the Truth Church" at the hands of some members and workers in NSW and other states of Australia over many years.
It does not address the specific comments made by victims on the Sixty Minutes program.
These victims are just the "tip of the iceberg". They are representative of literally hundreds of victims over many years.
The second paragraph in the statement is incorrect - not all matters raised by victims in the Sixty Minutes program have yet been dealt with by the legal authorities.
This would be evident by both watching the program and making a phone call to those who know.
It is disappointing that some inaccurate information continues to be written and circulated to members of the church.
At the same time, it is worth acknowledging publicly the positive and progressive step forward that has been made by Wayne Dean and staff in South Australia/Northern Territory in the development of a child safety policy and worker code of conduct.
However, there is still much to be done in Australia to both acknowledge and address historical cases of Child Sexual Abuse and in most locations there are no written policies/procedures.
It is worth noting that whilst I am not a current member of "the Truth Church", I will continue to support and advocate in particular for the first victim on the Sixty Minutes program (and victims more generally) until the wrongs of the past are addressed and fixed. We grew up in the same small country town in NSW and whilst I am nearly 14 years older and had left the town by the time the abuse started at a very young age, I know the situation well from the time around when the victim first sought help prior to going to the Police.
There are many chapters yet to work through in this particular issue so I won't say more at this stage.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 13, 2019 20:39:38 GMT -5
Thank you, Ross!
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Post by nathan on May 13, 2019 21:15:14 GMT -5
** Give a guy a break! Why, do have so negative to your overseers? The guy is trying to fix the problem, hoping the rest of the workers over there follow the laws guidance. No he's not. He's trying to preserve what would would otherwise crumble. Otherwise, he would have done it sooner. And he never promised to invite back those who were threatened with ex-communication, and felt forced to leave. He never promised to stop that practise. He never promised that those who reported CSA would not be sanctioned in some way, as has been happening.
Like Muilenberg, he's probably sorry that these things happened, but it's obvious that his first duty is to the organisation, not the victims.
And if he doesn't listen or willing to change then God will remove him by taken him home before his time is up.... Just like Moses! God told him to strike the Rock only ONCE! but he struck it TWICE so God took him home before he could enter the promised land. God is in charge here! Do all you can but leave the REST for God to handle. God does a BETTER a job than all humans put together.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 21:34:00 GMT -5
Oh really?
Great that a policy has been done.
Was thinking, was it Julia Gillard, ex Prime Minister of Australia who saw the need to address the past wrongs done to Aboriginal people, to go forward and ...had the strength and wisdom to say “we’re sorry ! “ It stayed with me and and I am a N.Zealander.
Why is it so hard to use those words? They are powerful words. They indicate strength not weakness.
I believe, sometimes to set things back on the right track, we have to humble ourselves.
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Post by nathan on May 13, 2019 21:39:12 GMT -5
Oh really? Was thinking, was it Julia Gillard, ex Prime Minister of Australia who saw the need to address the past wrongs done to Aboriginall people, to go forward and ...had the strength and wisdom to say “we’re sorry ! “ It stayed with me and and I am a N.Zealander. Why is it so hard to use those words? They are powerful words. They indicate strength not weakness. I believe, sometimes to set things back on the right track, we have to humble ourselves. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 21:42:57 GMT -5
I think The order Julia Gillard handled it was: apology first not round the other way.
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Post by benar on May 13, 2019 21:52:38 GMT -5
No he's not. He's trying to preserve what would would otherwise crumble. Otherwise, he would have done it sooner. And he never promised to invite back those who were threatened with ex-communication, and felt forced to leave. He never promised to stop that practise. He never promised that those who reported CSA would not be sanctioned in some way, as has been happening.
Like Muilenberg, he's probably sorry that these things happened, but it's obvious that his first duty is to the organisation, not the victims.
And if he doesn't listen or willing to change then God will remove him by taken him home before his time is up.... Just like Moses! God told him to strike the Rock only ONCE! but he struck it TWICE so God took him home before he could enter the promised land. God is in charge here! Do all you can but leave the REST for God to handle. God does a BETTER a job than all humans put together.
What exactly did your supposedly all powerful and all good god do to prevent this situation in the first place? |
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Post by Pragmatic on May 13, 2019 22:18:48 GMT -5
Oh really? Great that a policy has been done. Was thinking, was it Julia Gillard, ex Prime Minister of Australia who saw the need to address the past wrongs done to Aboriginal people, to go forward and ...had the strength and wisdom to say “we’re sorry ! “ It stayed with me and and I am a N.Zealander. Why is it so hard to use those words? They are powerful words. They indicate strength not weakness. I believe, sometimes to set things back on the right track, we have to humble ourselves. As much as I couldn't stand the guy, it was actually Kevin Rudd. I was in Oz for a Corroboree with my Aboriginal friends for the day of the apology, as one had been brought up here in NZ as part of the lost generation. It was a very emotional day. It meant an awful lot to the indigenous people in both countries.
I don't expect our American friends to understand any of this, as our history from down under is hardly taught elsewhere.
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Post by nathan on May 13, 2019 22:40:27 GMT -5
Don't worry, if he doesn't change his way of doing things as a church head leader, someone above him/Graham S. will REMOVE him or demote him to a regular worker position, with no authority to do anything except making list for his field.
And if he doesn't listen or willing to change then God will remove him by taken him home before his time is up.... Just like Moses! God told him to strike the Rock only ONCE! but he struck it TWICE so God took him home before he could enter the promised land. God is in charge here! Do all you can but leave the REST for God to handle. God does a BETTER a job than all humans put together.
What exactly did your supposedly all powerful and all good god do to prevent this situation in the first place?
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janj
Senior Member
Posts: 472
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Post by janj on May 14, 2019 0:29:34 GMT -5
A letter of admission would sink the last of the sect. They are avoiding the fact that the mentally disordered are still amongst their "WORLDWIDE MINISTRY"and lots more sister/brother workers would have to leave. Also they are @#$%^#$%^ scared to put their name on the Redress list. .. nationalredress.gov.au .. cause all those false religions they preach about would be beside them... magpie Constantly spewing out hatred does NOTHING to help either the problem or the victims at this time. You talk about love but constsntly show contempt. Any organisation or group can have abusers in their ranks - you cant stop that, it's how it is delt with that is important now. Ifyou really want to help, write to an overseer and encourage them to put policies in place. |
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 14, 2019 0:30:36 GMT -5
No he's not. He's trying to preserve what would would otherwise crumble. Otherwise, he would have done it sooner. And he never promised to invite back those who were threatened with ex-communication, and felt forced to leave. He never promised to stop that practise. He never promised that those who reported CSA would not be sanctioned in some way, as has been happening.
Like Muilenberg, he's probably sorry that these things happened, but it's obvious that his first duty is to the organisation, not the victims.
And if he doesn't listen or willing to change then God will remove him by taken him home before his time is up.... Just like Moses! God told him to strike the Rock only ONCE! but he struck it TWICE so God took him home before he could enter the promised land. God is in charge here! Do all you can but leave the REST for God to handle. God does a BETTER a job than all humans put together.
What makes you think Kitto would listen to Snow? He could very well tell him to shove off. |
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Post by nathan on May 14, 2019 1:11:14 GMT -5
Don't worry, if he doesn't change his way of doing things as a church head leader, someone above him/Graham S. will REMOVE him or demote him to a regular worker position, with no authority to do anything except making list for his field.
And if he doesn't listen or willing to change then God will remove him by taken him home before his time is up.... Just like Moses! God told him to strike the Rock only ONCE! but he struck it TWICE so God took him home before he could enter the promised land. God is in charge here! Do all you can but leave the REST for God to handle. God does a BETTER a job than all humans put together.
What makes you think Kitto would listen to Snow? He could very well tell him to shove off.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on May 14, 2019 1:23:53 GMT -5
What makes you think Kitto would listen to Snow? He could very well tell him to shove off.
You do not know Australians. |
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Post by Roselyn T on May 14, 2019 3:19:03 GMT -5
Let us wait and SEE who get the boot. Graham S. or Kitto…. My guess is Kitto will go first.
You do not know Australians. I was thinking the same thing curlywurlysammagee. The same as all the talk of GS being head worker of Australia...yeh right! Too many family connections in NSW for GS to be throwing his weight around imo ! |
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Post by speak on May 14, 2019 3:54:30 GMT -5
A letter of admission would sink the last of the sect. They are avoiding the fact that the mentally disordered are still amongst their "WORLDWIDE MINISTRY"and lots more sister/brother workers would have to leave. Also they are @#$%^#$%^ scared to put their name on the Redress list. .. nationalredress.gov.au .. cause all those false religions they preach about would be beside them... magpie You seem to hold your own opinion in high regard even when it is a great stretch of the actual truth. |
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Post by speak on May 14, 2019 3:58:07 GMT -5
Let us wait and SEE who get the boot. Graham S. or Kitto…. My guess is Kitto will go first.
You do not know Australians. Or Graham. |
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Post by nathan on May 14, 2019 7:48:51 GMT -5
You do not know Australians. Or Graham.
In the past over 100 yrs, the senior workers have come together to remove William Irvine, John Long, Edward Cooney, Ira H. Leslie White and any workers are teaching false doctrines, through the years for acting/doing things improperly, immoral and unbecoming behaviors as the church leaders. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 9:57:12 GMT -5
Oh really? Great that a policy has been done. Was thinking, was it Julia Gillard, ex Prime Minister of Australia who saw the need to address the past wrongs done to Aboriginal people, to go forward and ...had the strength and wisdom to say “we’re sorry ! “ It stayed with me and and I am a N.Zealander. Why is it so hard to use those words? They are powerful words. They indicate strength not weakness. I believe, sometimes to set things back on the right track, we have to humble ourselves. As much as I couldn't stand the guy, it was actually Kevin Rudd. I was in Oz for a Corroboree with my Aboriginal friends for the day of the apology, as one had been brought up here in NZ as part of the lost generation. It was a very emotional day. It meant an awful lot to the indigenous people in both countries.
I don't expect our American friends to understand any of this, as our history from down under is hardly taught elsewhere.
while not the same, our government, including I believe President Clinton first, issued official apologies to the Native Americans who were displaced, killed, and subjected to disease due to the colonization. We went a step further and essentially gave a monthly stipend to anyone with enough native American ancestry. One could argue that it's actually done more harm than good, as the reservations have extremely high rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, and domestic abuse. Part of that is due however, not to free handouts, but to the Native Americans low tolerance for alcohol which we apparently Supply them with in-kind. It really all depends on how you approach an apology. If you approach an apology from the point of view of a problem-solving tool that can be helpful for the other party, it becomes fairly easy to apologize. As long as you have any humility. If you have a lot of Pride, and see an apology as a way to diminish your power, apologies can become very difficult to say. |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 14, 2019 10:13:21 GMT -5
No he's not. He's trying to preserve what would would otherwise crumble. Otherwise, he would have done it sooner. And he never promised to invite back those who were threatened with ex-communication, and felt forced to leave. He never promised to stop that practise. He never promised that those who reported CSA would not be sanctioned in some way, as has been happening.
Like Muilenberg, he's probably sorry that these things happened, but it's obvious that his first duty is to the organisation, not the victims.
And if he doesn't listen or willing to change then God will remove him by taken him home before his time is up.... Just like Moses! God told him to strike the Rock only ONCE! but he struck it TWICE so God took him home before he could enter the promised land. God is in charge here! Do all you can but leave the REST for God to handle. God does a BETTER a job than all humans put together.
That’s been the whole problem! Leaving it up to God, when God has given us brains to figure out what is right or wrong. Also God dictated laws to Moses that clearly he expects to be followed. Do the workers not understand that when they aid and abet wrong doings, that they will have to answer just as if they themselves did the deed? |
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 14, 2019 10:16:57 GMT -5
Oh really? Great that a policy has been done. Was thinking, was it Julia Gillard, ex Prime Minister of Australia who saw the need to address the past wrongs done to Aboriginal people, to go forward and ...had the strength and wisdom to say “we’re sorry ! “ It stayed with me and and I am a N.Zealander. Why is it so hard to use those words? They are powerful words. They indicate strength not weakness. I believe, sometimes to set things back on the right track, we have to humble ourselves. As much as I couldn't stand the guy, it was actually Kevin Rudd. I was in Oz for a Corroboree with my Aboriginal friends for the day of the apology, as one had been brought up here in NZ as part of the lost generation. It was a very emotional day. It meant an awful lot to the indigenous people in both countries. I don't expect our American friends to understand any of this, as our history from down under is hardly taught elsewhere.
We should. We have the Native Indians and the black peoples who were and still treated like less then humans. |
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daft
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Post by daft on May 14, 2019 10:54:00 GMT -5
Simply put, the workers are unqualified to appropriately deal with the CSA issue. They need outside legal counsel to protect themselves, the victims and to prevent further episodes. They need standardized procedures and an open reporting structure. They need insurance of some kind to compensate victims in the case of litigation.
But because of the fellowship's pride (yes, pride) in the "lowly", homeless ministry and formally un-structured ministry hierarchy, none of this will happen.
For example, we can't hire outside counsel because "we" don't exist! Who would hire them? "We" cannot adopt a name, LLC or corporation name to represent the fellowship.
Standardized procedures cannot be put in place because there's no centralized leadership, or consensus among regional leaders.
So, except for the individual efforts of regional leaders to get it right, what reason do we have to expect these CSA matters will be handled any differently in the future?
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