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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 6:27:25 GMT -5
The narrative concerning Abraham and God,
Proves that God did NOT wish for Abraham to
Sacrifice his son. It's a fact and is communicated
As such in the narrative.
God s plan was to have a chosen " people",
And he chose Abraham, for the very reason, that
disbelievers shunt over.
Does the created reason as well as the Creator?
I think not.
The biggest problem, isn't the critic , it's those
That overly reverence the symbolic and meaningful
Obedience of our friend , the faith filled Abraham,
Who is suredly worth honoring for his friendship with
his Creator, in my opinion.
Jmt
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 6:46:09 GMT -5
Briefing , it seems that 80% of humanity have a very
Favorable opinion of Abraham , and his biggest
Critics may well be those (that wish he didn't have the
Legacy that was granted to him?). Surely there is no
Envy necessary .
(It seems the Hindu people even elevated Abraham to
Status of (worship) as the (?) Braham of the Hindu faith
(His descendant being , Manu( Noah to the chosen) who
Survived the great flood , with his family , in a boat (ark).
Jmt
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 6:49:25 GMT -5
Yes, the Hebrews know that Noah died , in and about the birth of Abraham.
Cheers
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 6:51:32 GMT -5
As such , NoahManu would be the forefather of Abraham
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Post by xna on Oct 26, 2017 8:51:01 GMT -5
Briefing , it seems that 80% of humanity have a very Favorable opinion of Abraham , and his biggest Critics may well be those (that wish he didn't have the Legacy that was granted to him?). Surely there is no Envy necessary . Jmt Abraham is a very popular figure. Abraham is not seen in the same light within; Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Some of Islam believes Abraham had a dream to kill his son, and the dream was inspired by Satan. This makes for better story. JMT "Killing an innocent soul is a sin. Abraham's son Ishmael was innocent; he had not committed any sin that justifed being killed.
Thus, if God had truly commanded Abraham to kill Ishmael, for any reason, it would have meant that God commanded Abraham to commit a sin." |
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 15:52:23 GMT -5
Briefing , it seems that 80% of humanity have a very Favorable opinion of Abraham , and his biggest Critics may well be those (that wish he didn't have the Legacy that was granted to him?). Surely there is no Envy necessary . Jmt Abraham is a very popular figure. Abraham is not seen in the same light within; Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Some of Islam believes Abraham had a dream to kill his son, and the dream was inspired by Satan. This makes for better story. JMT "Killing an innocent soul is a sin. Abraham's son Ishmael was innocent; he had not committed any sin that justifed being killed.
Thus, if God had truly commanded Abraham to kill Ishmael, for any reason, it would have meant that God commanded Abraham to commit a sin."It's difficult to deny his life, you do believe that he lived. You believe he was a friend of God, also (real friends) I do |
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 15:53:16 GMT -5
Are you Hindu?
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 15:55:17 GMT -5
Do you believe God blessed Abraham, with descendants
As many as the stars?
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 16:17:12 GMT -5
Are you puzzled at Gods test?
Logically, all God asked, is for willingness.
( I'm not sure , but I really don't believe God required
this sacrifice, imo)
(No where is it spelled out that Abraham couldn't opt
Out)
Yet , Abraham believed God, (promise of eternal life)
And it was counted to him, as righteousness. He was
A friend of God. JMT
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Post by xna on Oct 26, 2017 17:04:05 GMT -5
Abraham is a very popular figure. Abraham is not seen in the same light within; Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Some of Islam believes Abraham had a dream to kill his son, and the dream was inspired by Satan. This makes for better story. JMT "Killing an innocent soul is a sin. Abraham's son Ishmael was innocent; he had not committed any sin that justifed being killed.
Thus, if God had truly commanded Abraham to kill Ishmael, for any reason, it would have meant that God commanded Abraham to commit a sin."It's difficult to deny his life, you do believe that he lived. You believe he was a friend of God, also (real friends) I do I want to believe things that are true based on good evidence to support my beliefs. So we should look at any evidence to support the claim the the bible story about Abraham is 100% true. Those that are best trained to look for such evidence find; so far the biblical archaeologists have no evidence of an Abraham of the bible. So until there is good evidence we should remain skeptical about that claim. There are other things we can consider that would shed some doubt on that claim. For example; 1. Abraham is not seen the same in; Islam, Judaism and Christianity yet the all claim him (see link about). 2. The bible contradicts it's self about Abraham. 3. Tradition credits Moses for writing the first four books. These books tell the story of Abraham. But there is a problem with that theory which is found in Deuteronomy 34:1–12 where the author, if it was Moses records when and where he died. That makes no sense. In the NT there are also contradictions about Abraham in the number of generations from Jesus to Abraham. 42 or 41? So all I can say is there are many stories about Abraham which are important to many people but so far no evidence to support there was a real man like Abraham. I see the main point about the story of Abraham and other bible stories to be; Are they useful today as a moral guide? To me the Christian version of Abraham is immoral, while the Islamic version (where satan deceived Abraham trying to get him to kill his son and then god intervenes and stops) is a moral version. If you believe the bible is; inherent, infallible, perfect and so on, you must suspension of disbelief and reason due to the bible contradictions alone. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 17:07:28 GMT -5
It's difficult to deny his life, you do believe that he lived. You believe he was a friend of God, also (real friends) I do I want to believe things that are true based on good evidence to support my beliefs. So we should look at any evidence to support the claim the the bible story about Abraham is 100% true. Those that are best trained to look for such evidence find; so far the biblical archaeologists have no evidence of an Abraham of the bible. So until there is good evidence we should remain skeptical about that claim. There are other things we can consider that would shed some doubt on that claim. For example; 1. Abraham is not seen the same in; Islam, Judaism and Christianity yet the all claim him (see link about). 2. the bible contradicts it's self about Abraham. 3. Tradition credits Moses for writing the first four books. These books tell the story of Abraham. But there is a problem with that theory which is found in Deuteronomy 34:1–12 where the author, if was Moses records when and where he died. That makes no sense. In the NT there are also contradictions about Abraham in the number of generations from Jesus to Abraham. 42 or 41? So all I can say is there are many stories about Abraham which are important to many people but so far no evidence to support there was a real man like Abraham. I see the main point about the story of Abraham and other bible stories to be; Are they useful today as a moral guide? To me the Christian version of Abraham is immoral, while the Islamic version (where satan deceived Abraham trying to get him to kill his son and then god intervenes and stops) is a moral version. If you believe the bible is; inherent, infallible, perfect and so on, you must suspension of disbelief and reason due to the bible contradictions alone. 3. joshua or someone could have finished the book where moses died... |
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Post by xna on Oct 26, 2017 17:10:33 GMT -5
3. joshua or someone could have finished the book where moses died... It's possible. To me it's more honest for a Christian to say; "I believe the bible 100% & admit that it's by faith alone, and say you don't understand the contradictions." |
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 18:09:42 GMT -5
Ok, this narrative as presented by people that do not
Believe God, looks to be a "no go".
In fact , that is precisely as it was planned
This narrative puts Abraham in unique place in history
and because of his willingness to be willing, the whole
World was blessed with his descendants, ...
We wouldn't even be here to discuss this event, as:
Creators plan was for a chosen people(to make the world
a blessing , a wonderful meaning given to the future and the eternal
Things that human minds can only hope to understand, through
their own willingness to accept Gods friendship/fellowship/
Relationship / that we know that our redeemer lives,
More later..... JMT , for now
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Post by xna on Oct 26, 2017 18:42:13 GMT -5
It's difficult to deny his life, you do believe that he lived. You believe he was a friend of God, also (real friends) I do I believe that you do believe, but your believe is based on faith alone, unless you present some good evidence. Based on what I know today, I doubt he lived as told by the story in the bible. It's likely an oral story that got changed many times. So my answer is I am not yet convinced, and do not yet believe he lived. If I don't believe he was a real person then it follows I also don't believe he was a friend of god. It is prudent to be skeptical until you are convinced of any claim. If you believe without evidence or good reasons, that is the definition of gullible - " easily deceived or tricked, and too willing to believe everything that other people say". If your belief is only by faith when there is no good evidence then you have to suspend your disbelief. The problem with believing on faith alone and suspending your disbelief is that you become gullible to believing other things which can harm you or others. Some examples could be; homeopathy, faith healing, and many forms of pseudoscience (which you can read on TMB). You can believe anything you want, and for any reason. I don't have a problem with another's belief, until or unless that belief harms others. JMT |
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 18:47:52 GMT -5
However or whoever penned the words of scripture,
( in Hebrew) is a study of its own
From what we glean about. this procedure;
(Inspired) one letter at a time , no gaps between "words" , and each letter(character) is also a ("word")
Hebrew is deep, as by stringing letters together the word becomes a
Sentence. There could be some English equivalents
But the language isn't built on this .
Example : if DOA , was a Hebrew word, each letter a word , and
The 3 letters , a sentence (but this doesn't work in English, because D
Is seldom used as : (dead). Etc
So you can see by using the Hebrew characters, one at time
The person taking the letter/scribing there would be
Impossible to know what was scribed , until it was
Finished.
Just some trivia ,
And. It is then left to the scribe to read it as it came to
him, as many prophets scribed : "And the word of the Lird
Came unto me...."
It certainly gives more life to the thoughts, IMO
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Post by So on Oct 26, 2017 19:31:49 GMT -5
There were only 3 persons privileged to this event
And each would bring a very unique perspective of it.
Likely this was dictated one character at a time as per
Usual, the scribe having no idea until it was finished
God oversaw the event,
Abraham (against all doubt) believed God knows best
Isaac , the loved son of Abraham , cautiously accepting
the willingness of his father (as his father also did)
So , No one needed to expose any private thinking about
This event, it was recorded as God wanted it recorded
Abraham didn't need to write a word.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 26, 2017 20:31:39 GMT -5
Briefing , it seems that 80% of humanity have a very Favorable opinion of Abraham , and his biggest Critics may well be those (that wish he didn't have the Legacy that was granted to him?). Surely there is no Envy necessary . (It seems the Hindu people even elevated Abraham to Status of (worship) as the (?) Braham of the Hindu faith (His descendant being , Manu( Noah to the chosen) who Survived the great flood , with his family , in a boat (ark). Jmt
Brahma (/ˈbrəhmɑː/; Sanskrit: ब्रह्मा, IAST: Brahmā) is a creator god in Hinduism.[1]
from wiki
Braham was the Hindu GOD! -not a man like Abraham !
I could find no source where the Hindu religion ever even mentioned Abraham!
As for Manu he was NOT Noah!
Manu and Gilamesh are figures in their own stories of the flood!
The bible isn't the only document of the history of mankind nor perhaps even the oldest!
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Post by Google on Oct 26, 2017 20:47:36 GMT -5
Google it :
Hindu relationship to Abraham
Or better yet , Hindu (Manu) , who becomes the
father of all humanity , by surviving a world wide
Deluge in a boat (ark ) with his family
✌️
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 27, 2017 0:13:17 GMT -5
Google it : Hindu relationship to Abraham Or better yet , Hindu (Manu) , who becomes the father of all humanity , by surviving a world wide Deluge in a boat (ark ) with his family ✌️
It only indicates a lack of knowledge of the history the worlds various religions beliefs as well as hubris in trying to claim the bible as the original authority of all the religious beliefs, -past and present!
A lot of such stories are similar and come from various countries -especially so, -when it comes earth's upheavals.
The world being as large as it is and many groups of people not even aware of the existence other groups, the people felt it was only happening to them and thus told the story from their viewpoint.
There are many flood stories in religious history.
They could have all been the same or even different ones in various places in the world.
Manu:
Manu is a term found with various meanings in Hinduism.
In early texts, it refers to the archetypal man, or to the first man (progenitor of humanity).
The Sanskrit term for 'human', मानव (IAST: mānava) means 'of Manu' or 'children of Manu'.[1]
In later texts, Manu is the title or name of mystical sage-rulers of earth, or alternatively as the head of mythical dynasties that begin with each cyclic kalpa (aeon) when the universe is born anew.[1]
The title of the text Manusmriti uses this term as a prefix, but refers to the first Manu – Svayambhuva, the spiritual son of Brahma.[2]
In some Puranic mythology, each kalpa consists of fourteen Manvantaras, and each Manvantara is headed by a different Manu.[1]
The current universe, in this mythology, is asserted to be ruled by the 7th Manu named Vaivasvata.[2]
In Vishnu Purana, Vaivasvata, also known as Sraddhadeva or Satyavrata, was the king of Dravida before the great flood.[3]
He was warned of the flood by the Matsya (fish) avatar of Vishnu, and built a boat that carried the Vedas,
Manu's family and the seven sages to safety, helped by Matsya.
The myth is repeated with variations in other texts, including the Mahabharata and a few other Puranas.
It is similar to other flood myths such as that of Gilgamesh and Noah.
from wiki
Ah, -so "you" and "google" one and the same person?  |
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Post by Poof on Oct 27, 2017 0:40:19 GMT -5
Google it : Hindu relationship to Abraham Or better yet , Hindu (Manu) , who becomes the father of all humanity , by surviving a world wide Deluge in a boat (ark ) with his family ✌️
It only indicates a lack of knowledge of the history the worlds various religions beliefs as well as hubris in trying to claim the bible as the original authority of all the religious beliefs, -past and present!
A lot of such stories are similar and come from various countries -especially so, -when it comes earth's upheavals.
The world being as large as it is and many groups of people not even aware of the existence other groups, the people felt it was only happening to them and thus told the story from their viewpoint.
There are many flood stories in religious history.
They could have all been the same or even different ones in various places in the world.
Manu:
Manu is a term found with various meanings in Hinduism.
In early texts, it refers to the archetypal man, or to the first man (progenitor of humanity).
The Sanskrit term for 'human', मानव (IAST: mānava) means 'of Manu' or 'children of Manu'.[1]
In later texts, Manu is the title or name of mystical sage-rulers of earth, or alternatively as the head of mythical dynasties that begin with each cyclic kalpa (aeon) when the universe is born anew.[1]
The title of the text Manusmriti uses this term as a prefix, but refers to the first Manu – Svayambhuva, the spiritual son of Brahma.[2]
In some Puranic mythology, each kalpa consists of fourteen Manvantaras, and each Manvantara is headed by a different Manu.[1]
The current universe, in this mythology, is asserted to be ruled by the 7th Manu named Vaivasvata.[2]
In Vishnu Purana, Vaivasvata, also known as Sraddhadeva or Satyavrata, was the king of Dravida before the great flood.[3]
He was warned of the flood by the Matsya (fish) avatar of Vishnu, and built a boat that carried the Vedas,
Manu's family and the seven sages to safety, helped by Matsya.
The myth is repeated with variations in other texts, including the Mahabharata and a few other Puranas.
It is similar to other flood myths such as that of Gilgamesh and Noah.
from wiki
Ah, -so "you" and "google" one and the same person? If you want to know about living , there is only one Proper way to live. It was the hebrewic culture and All its cultural teachings If you google , the building of the Tower of Babel, this effort Brought many many false teachings into existence, Hence the beginning of " confusion of languages/beliefs/(worship?) Yep , false teaching leads to Babylon-confusion |
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Post by Poof on Oct 27, 2017 0:40:44 GMT -5
Google it : Hindu relationship to Abraham Or better yet , Hindu (Manu) , who becomes the father of all humanity , by surviving a world wide Deluge in a boat (ark ) with his family ✌️
It only indicates a lack of knowledge of the history the worlds various religions beliefs as well as hubris in trying to claim the bible as the original authority of all the religious beliefs, -past and present!
A lot of such stories are similar and come from various countries -especially so, -when it comes earth's upheavals.
The world being as large as it is and many groups of people not even aware of the existence other groups, the people felt it was only happening to them and thus told the story from their viewpoint.
There are many flood stories in religious history.
They could have all been the same or even different ones in various places in the world.
Manu:
Manu is a term found with various meanings in Hinduism.
In early texts, it refers to the archetypal man, or to the first man (progenitor of humanity).
The Sanskrit term for 'human', मानव (IAST: mānava) means 'of Manu' or 'children of Manu'.[1]
In later texts, Manu is the title or name of mystical sage-rulers of earth, or alternatively as the head of mythical dynasties that begin with each cyclic kalpa (aeon) when the universe is born anew.[1]
The title of the text Manusmriti uses this term as a prefix, but refers to the first Manu – Svayambhuva, the spiritual son of Brahma.[2]
In some Puranic mythology, each kalpa consists of fourteen Manvantaras, and each Manvantara is headed by a different Manu.[1]
The current universe, in this mythology, is asserted to be ruled by the 7th Manu named Vaivasvata.[2]
In Vishnu Purana, Vaivasvata, also known as Sraddhadeva or Satyavrata, was the king of Dravida before the great flood.[3]
He was warned of the flood by the Matsya (fish) avatar of Vishnu, and built a boat that carried the Vedas,
Manu's family and the seven sages to safety, helped by Matsya.
The myth is repeated with variations in other texts, including the Mahabharata and a few other Puranas.
It is similar to other flood myths such as that of Gilgamesh and Noah.
from wiki
Ah, -so "you" and "google" one and the same person? If you want to know about living , there is only one Proper way to live. It was the hebrewic culture and All its cultural teachings If you google , the building of the Tower of Babel, this effort Brought many many false teachings into existence, Hence the beginning of " confusion of languages/beliefs/(worship?) Yep , false teaching leads to Babylon-confusion |
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 27, 2017 1:11:34 GMT -5
I am not sure what you are doing but if it is to trying to make the bible the basis for Hinduism and possibly all other religions of the world -that just won't wash!
It only indicates a lack of knowledge of the history the worlds various religions beliefs as well as hubris in trying to claim the bible as the original authority of all the religious beliefs, -past and present!
A lot of such stories are similar and come from various countries -especially so, -when it comes earth's upheavals.
The world being as large as it is and many groups of people not even aware of the existence other groups, the people felt it was only happening to them and thus told the story from their viewpoint.
There are many flood stories in religious history.
They could have all been the same or even different ones in various places in the world.
Manu:
Manu is a term found with various meanings in Hinduism.
In early texts, it refers to the archetypal man, or to the first man (progenitor of humanity).
The Sanskrit term for 'human', मानव (IAST: mānava) means 'of Manu' or 'children of Manu'.[1]
In later texts, Manu is the title or name of mystical sage-rulers of earth, or alternatively as the head of mythical dynasties that begin with each cyclic kalpa (aeon) when the universe is born anew.[1]
The title of the text Manusmriti uses this term as a prefix, but refers to the first Manu – Svayambhuva, the spiritual son of Brahma.[2]
In some Puranic mythology, each kalpa consists of fourteen Manvantaras, and each Manvantara is headed by a different Manu.[1]
The current universe, in this mythology, is asserted to be ruled by the 7th Manu named Vaivasvata.[2]
In Vishnu Purana, Vaivasvata, also known as Sraddhadeva or Satyavrata, was the king of Dravida before the great flood.[3]
He was warned of the flood by the Matsya (fish) avatar of Vishnu, and built a boat that carried the Vedas,
Manu's family and the seven sages to safety, helped by Matsya.
The myth is repeated with variations in other texts, including the Mahabharata and a few other Puranas.
It is similar to other flood myths such as that of Gilgamesh and Noah.
from wiki
Ah, -so "you" and "google" one and the same person? If you want to know about living , there is only one Proper way to live. It was the hebrewic culture and All its cultural teachings. If you google , the building of the Tower of Babel, this effort Brought many many false teachings into existence, Hence the beginning of "confusion of languages/beliefs/(worship?) Yep , false teaching leads to Babylon-confusion. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 27, 2017 1:23:31 GMT -5
Abraham is a very popular figure. Abraham is not seen in the same light within; Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Some of Islam believes Abraham had a dream to kill his son, and the dream was inspired by Satan. This makes for better story. JMT "Killing an innocent soul is a sin. Abraham's son Ishmael was innocent; he had not committed any sin that justifed being killed.
Thus, if God had truly commanded Abraham to kill Ishmael, for any reason, it would have meant that God commanded Abraham to commit a sin."It's difficult to deny his life, you do believe that he lived. You believe he was a friend of God, also (real friends) I do
No, I don't believe that Abraham necessarily really had to have lived any more that I believe that Manu, Noah, or Gilamesh had to have really lived.
They are all stories from the past and if you believe any of them actually existed in the form of a human, -you need to believe it by faith because we have no real evidence otherwise. |
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Post by Poof on Oct 27, 2017 1:48:45 GMT -5
If you want to know about living , there is only one Proper way to live. It was the hebrewic culture and All its cultural teachings. If you google , the building of the Tower of Babel, this effort Brought many many false teachings into existence, Hence the beginning of "confusion of languages/beliefs/(worship?) Yep , false teaching leads to Babylon-confusion. It may be a matter of heart? "He isn't a Hebrew who is Hebrew after the "flesh", but is a Hebrew after the principles of his heart" ( paraphrased). Cheers ✌️ |
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Post by Waitaminute on Oct 27, 2017 1:51:30 GMT -5
It's difficult to deny his life, you do believe that he lived. You believe he was a friend of God, also (real friends) I do
No, I don't believe that Abraham necessarily really had to have lived any more that I believe that Manu, Noah, or Gilamesh had to have really lived.
They are all stories from the past and if you believe any of them actually existed in the form of a human, -you need to believe it by faith because we have no real evidence otherwise. A basic truth, that Jesus recognized and taught, was, A house divided, cannot stand. Do you believe this truth? |
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Post by Poof on Oct 27, 2017 2:03:00 GMT -5
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Post by Poof on Oct 27, 2017 2:04:43 GMT -5
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Post by Poof on Oct 27, 2017 3:43:36 GMT -5
It seems this Cher song, could tell the story
Of how our Creator feels about the "man/woman" that
He created in His imagine, in order to have a special
Relationship with .
"Living in this house/earth. Divided. (With a love that's so
One-sided)
There can be no hope, the walls are going to come,
Tumbling down....😰
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