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Post by howitis on Mar 6, 2017 23:47:21 GMT -5
Yes, I have joked about being 'Al the Baptist', but that's just being a smarty-pants and a play on words. My wife and I would say we are simply Christians, or Christ-followers. By the way, we are meeting with a bunch of other Christians in our home this evening to discuss John 1! Yes, it's a coincidence, not prompted by any discussions on here. So we will gather around the written word to discuss the Living Word, and the Word who is God. Praise Him! Yay!!!!! Wish I was visiting....oh well another time, perhaps you can fill us in later. Enjoy!!! |
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Post by alistairhenderson on Mar 6, 2017 23:51:45 GMT -5
My take on this (sorry, not speaking for Ross of course - he's a big boy and will speak for himself I'm sure!) is that we are called to be discerning, not necessarily by condemning others outright.
It is not implying that there are not true Christians in any of these 'northern' churches, but traditionally and historically there have been different streams of thought in the Anglican church. So, it is more likely that you will hear the straight-forward message about the grace of God (the Trinity idea would be the same) in a 'low' church than in a 'high' church (where the cultural trappings - bells and smells - are more prevalent).
Also, there is an Anglo-catholic strain in the overall Anglican church which is basically Catholicism without the Pope. It is actually a sign of overall freedom that there can be churches existing side-by-side in the one communion that allows for people to discern and choose what is more biblically sound, without condemning those who disagree with you in a wholesale manner.
Don't know if that makes sense.
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Post by jondough on Mar 7, 2017 0:29:23 GMT -5
Believe it or not, the same thing goes for 2X2 over here. Especially when Leslie White was in Colorado. Basically, Colorado was, and still to a certain extent, wrong in many beliefs (according to many out here in the West).
Of course there is the D&R issue that divides us as well.
I chose our fellowship for many reasons, but we are imperfect just like the rest. Glad Christ is the Way, the Truth, and The light
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Post by alistairhenderson on Mar 7, 2017 2:36:24 GMT -5
Wow - I think I'm starting to feel the love!
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shushy
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Post by shushy on May 24, 2020 17:31:36 GMT -5
Thank God for Doug Parker his book
the Secret Sect, helped me immensely
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 20, 2020 19:31:07 GMT -5
May I have your attention ladies and gentlemen.
This contributor has joined the stuck needle race with Nathan.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 20, 2020 20:48:10 GMT -5
Bye, Bye!
Whoever you are, wherever you dwell, -I have quite enough to do without entering into an another conversation "guest" site who won't register and keeps changing their name! 
too-da-loo! 
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it's a bot
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Post by nathan on Nov 20, 2020 23:07:49 GMT -5
Except nathan - there WAS NO SUCH SISTER. Parkers and cheriekropp and others tracked have tracked them all down and actually talked to the family and cheriekropp and maybe others also went to the trouble of tracking down their birth and death records. The 'sister' was invented - a rumor and a rationalization used to try to support the early LIE that 2x2-ism didn't start with Will-I but instead went straight back to the shores of galilee when the truth is that it didn't at all except in the general way that every single church on earth could claim the same thing. In 1921 geo walker knew perfectly well who started the thing when he deflected a reporters question about Will-I by saying that 2x2-ism existed 'since the days of christ' and that it was just some people in ireland and england around 1898-1899 who 'became interested in the doctrines' before bringing it to the usa and canada and australia. Jun 20, 2012 I was with a group of workers in 1963 in an eastern state when I was in the work. I heard the story about William Irvine and Eddie Cooney discussed between George Walker and the overseer of our state. Of course, both of these men were from Ireland and knew Eddie personally. George especially still had admiration for Eddie but there was a problem not with his revelation, but with his willingness to work together with others in the ministry. The fellowship had grown so large world wide that there had to be some order and manage- was necessary. Eddie was not willing to work in unity with others so even though he was avoided he actually brought that on himself. It doesn't matter how great you become submission is still necessary. I have always admired the story that we have about the earlier workers and those who gave an honest sacrifice. In spite of the book "The Secret Sect" it was no secret to many of us nor to many in our state. The question arose then, "Why talk about those who appeared to have failed when it was unedifying. Someday I may tell my story even though I am no longer in the work. I have a very deep appreciation for those who are still there. I was there for eight years and enjoyed every year. My life was truly enriched because of that period of time in my life. In 1963, Richmond Virginia, I personally heard George Walker and Charles Hughes talking about "The beginning of William Irvine and John Long's experience". Both men were deeply concerned not only about their own souls but what they witnessed in the religious world at that time. There was no shortage of religion as we have read. Many people had their own ideas and some were most definitely self serving. William Irvine and those around him were definitely moved initially with this thought "If it was done this way in the first century could we not do the same today. William said to his friend John Long at the Faith Mission "Do you think we can do this today? (1897) George Walker said "It came into their hearts that this would be the right thing for them and they both realized it was a great step of faith. They were not moved with the idea of becoming a founder of anything. They were moved with feeling of trying to fulfill in their own generation what had been in the record for almost 2,000 years. I call that a revelation.
Now you can lay aside all the chatter about failures along the way, Irvine being one, and just take a good honest look at faith in trying to make that a part of our lives today - The life and teaching of Christ. George Walker told us about 2 to 3 after Irvine and Long "Launched Forth" he met Willie Gill bearing the same message. George said he was going on 21 at the time and was moved by what these men had done and was moved to take the same step in faith. Both George & Charlie acknowledged that William lost the sincerity he had in the beginning and unfortunately found himself outside of the fellowship that had become such a valuable gift to our generation. The discussion took place on special meeting rounds. George was a visiting worker at the time. There were about 16 workers in the room. We all sat in silence and listened to the two of them. Of the 16 workers about 9 are dead and only two are still in the work. I was one of the 16 workers there. I don't recall a question being asked in reference to anyone in particular. They talked about how the gospel had moved out from Ireland. More specifically it centered around William Irvine and his inspiration to leave the Faith Mission and that he gave his sister credit for influencing him. As I mentioned the details of their conversation was not discussed but I'm sure whatever it was both George and Charlie knew. It would be nice to have those men back among us. I would ask a lot of questions. George and Charlie did not discuss Robert Darling or George Gittins but only referred to William Irvine's sister. I was 23 when I heard this conversation but did not pickup on the names you mentioned. But as I mentioned I have not talked about the sister openly (until now) because it did not show up in anything that I read about him in the following years. These were the words Charlie used: "It came into her heart to tell William Irvine about her experience." He did not elaborate beyond that.
My suggestion was that history seems to show that there was an effort to follow the same pattern in different era of time. Both groups believed it was something that could be done. I think most Christian believers will feel that God has always had a people he could call his own in every age. I don't think we can pass judgment on how they become his people. I am glad that is left up to him. I suppose we will all see someday. I deeply appreciate what those early men did. I am amazed. Christiansburg |
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Post by nathan on Nov 20, 2020 23:11:03 GMT -5
Posted on Feb 28, 2019 Christiansburg (2x2/ex-worker) Wrote:
I personally had never heard of the Waldensians until about 10 years ago. Our ministry is so different that I wondered if there were others who ever tried it before 1898. That is when I read about that group, a recent visit to their museum and personal conversations with them revealed that they seemed to change from what they had done earlier as a 2x2 group. I asked why they had changed and was told that they knew they had to give up some of their earlier ideas in order to survive. As you know they merged with the Presbyterians. None of the workers I knew years ago ever spoke of the Waldensians. Maybe they knew. Maybe they didn't. I just don't know. If you research the Waldenses you will find a treasure trove of information of what you ask about. I studied about them several years ago got a book from one of their museums in North Carolina. There is a historical record of them written by (Rev.) John Hons published in 1982 -- second edition. It is a long but detailed (and documented) record of their survival from the 1st century on. They migrated from central Italy to northwest Italy then into the Alps and on to Switzerland. They were a repressed, hunted down and murdered group of people. The Romans Catholic Church were threatened by them and sought to eliminate them. A few survived and hid in Switzerland. They record a record of their homeless ministry, meetings in the home. Too much to detail here. When I visited their museum it was housed in a Presbyterian Church. I told the minister there who gave us a guided tour that I knew their history and then ask why they gave up on following their past way of doing things. His words "...We had to release those ideas and merge with the Presbyterian Church in order to survive". I told him that because of that they had not survived. He agreed. The museum is located in Vale, NC. When the King James 1611 Bible was being translated it is believed that remnants of the Waldenses' Bible records may have been used. There is another book written by one of our friends also "Apostles Doctrine and Fellowship" written by Dr. Cornelius Jaenen. He is well educated having graduated from a Canadian university with a degree in history. Mr. Jaenen went to Ethopia in the early 1950's to provide an open home for the workers. He is not there now but maybe returned to Canada. His book is still available on Amazon for about $50.00. Cherie Kropp posted segments of his book here in 2016, I believe. She provided her critique also on this website. Mr Jaenen attempts to trace Apostolic Succession back to the the first 12 Apostles. If you read the book you can make your own assumptions about that. I am satisfied well enough just to accept that what we have in our fellowship today as being as near to the NT ministry and fellowship as anything I know about. I have been professing for 63 years. I started going to meetings in 1956. I came out from the Methodist church in 1956. My grandparents were Catholic and Episcopalian on my mother's side. On my father's side they were Baptist. I know 100% what goes on there. I also know full well the challenges we face. NathanB wrote: That is so awesome, Christianburg! Thanks, so much for the information and some of the early history of the 2x2. I first heard about the Vaudois/Waldesense when Jay W. and I were together as co-workers in North Bend, Oregon 1988-89. There was a University church historian, who gave a lecture about the Vaudois/Waldenses and Peter Waldo in 1160 A.D. It was an amazing lecture to listen to her. A few months later, someone gave us the Pilgrim Church by Broadbent at Boring convention, and some of the workers Jay W. Randy R. and myself read the book in the car on our way to other conventions. We found out more information about the Vaudois history and Peter Waldo, the Frenchman who became follower of the Vaudois and his amazing 2x2 apostolic ministry up till the time he died. After I left the work in 1993, I put a lot of time searching, studying and find all I could about the Vaudois history and their belief, from other historians and their own church historians. I was astonished of the information available on the Internet on the Vaudois, Albigenses, Poor men of Lyons/France or Peter Waldo and his followers in the 11th century. Someone on TMB post the pilgrim church book by Broadbent and I am glad they did so others can read it for themselves. I had post many of their belief and teachings for 20 yrs. Title: The Pilgrim Church Author: E. H. Broadbent Chapter V history of the Vaudois/Waldenses Date first posted: July 2010 www.gutenberg.net.au/ebooks10/1000351h.html
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