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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 18:47:35 GMT -5
Ross.Bowden I support the ministry by going to gospel meetings when able, I do NOT follow anyone, but Christ, I am never beholden to what people/workers say if I believe it is incorrect and actively tell them so, I am also willing to be corrected if I find later that I was in fact incorrect. Yes we both belong to an imperfect body, which we call our 'church' and even though you choose to think yours is not associated with certain other bodies, one day you'll see that thinking was quite incorrect. I accept what you say about your beliefs. You have been saved by His grace which is wonderful. I have always been completely open about attending Christ Church St Ives when we are in Sydney and anyone can go onto the church website, listen to sermons etc. There is nothing to hide. I have always open about my identity and the church which I attend. That may mean that I attract some criticism from time to time which is fine. In terms of the structure of the Anglican Church a few points might help: - a local Anglican church is part of a local diocese. - It goes no further than that except there's a shared brand which is not always helpful in terms of some churches which use the Anglican brand throughout the world! - If the Archbishop of Canterbury was to declare some new belief in the Church of England in London it has absolutely no impact on the Anglican Church in Sydney or the local church I attend. - It also has no impact on the English church outside of the Canterbury diocese in London. - It is definitely not structurally linked to the Catholic Church in any way Anglican churches come in all shapes and sizes and there are plenty that I wouldn't choose to attend. Likewise, certain overseas ministers who have been appointed in their own Anglican churches are not allowed to preach in the church in Sydney because of the beliefs/values they hold. However, our experience has been a good one and we are thankful that God's Word is upheld and faithfully taught. I have been to plenty of other churches from Baptist, Church of Christ, Presbyterian etc I would be comfortable attending a range of local churches which uphold Jesus alone as the Way, Truth and Life, encourage fellowship with other Christians and prayer for all Christians throughout the world. so let me get this straight you have other anglican ministers that aren't allowed to preach at your particular church and yet your not exclusive? how is that any different than the workers not allowing others to preach "because of the beleifs and values they hold...if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black i don't know what is... |
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Post by joanna on Mar 3, 2017 19:09:15 GMT -5
PrueBert. If Christians are satisfied that the "kingdom of god" is synonymous with the transfiguration then they are an easily placated group. The justification of much of scripture relies on translating x to mean y or sometimes y 3So why is there a lapse in this practice by those who oppose the 2x2 group? If these individuals accept flexibility in translating intangible biblical concepts, they reveal their credulity in the face of the unevidenced. Therefore these critics have no case for negating the claims of workers or other religious leaders who state they have been spoken to by god and are acting on his direction. To accept and follow the teachings of the bible imposes an open-minded attitude to all religious claims emanating from that source. When the meaning of x is really y or y 3 then the options are infinite 
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Post by joanna on Mar 3, 2017 19:49:07 GMT -5
The Anglican Church Was started by a murderous tyrant Ross.Bowden. If that is ok with you, then any origins of religious groups should be. |
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Post by howitis on Mar 3, 2017 20:14:36 GMT -5
Not sure who is the funniest Ross.Bowden , if God was able to 'protect' His word right up until the past 50 something years before you were born, you really must think quite a lot of yourself to think you are the one doing it now!!! Choice of words again......'exclusiveness', 'protection' and now 'discernment'........obviously we use the one which suits us best at the time, depends if we are for or against, it appears!! PS....I have faith enough to believe God is the one that protects His word. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 21:17:13 GMT -5
so let me get this straight you have other anglican ministers that aren't allowed to preach at your particular church and yet your not exclusive? how is that any different than the workers not allowing others to preach "because of the beleifs and values they hold...if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black i don't know what is... I've explained it above. You should be aware that there are plenty of ministers across a number of denominations which uphold the Word of God who are very welcome to preach in each other's churches. Protestant denominations are not exclusive in the sense of the 2x2 church but they do make an effort to protect the Word of God from heresy. doesn't fly ross...so the workers are not allowed to protect and uphold the word of God from heresy too? i think you've taken the big pill of hypocrisy and self-righteousness... |
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Post by Gene on Mar 3, 2017 21:19:48 GMT -5
You see these women in the street looking like men Enuf?
T-shirts, singlets, short hair, shaved head, tattoos, smoking,
drinking (drunk) drug abuse, bad language, jeans, boots etc..
That's women acting like men.
Don't see it where I come from.
Some might say their **** church **** is from the beginning.
But no, our position is that what we believe in is from the
beginning - not dreamed up by some man (or woman dressed like
a man.)
That's why we say THE TRUTH and not THE CHURCH.
(there being plenty IN the church who are not of the Truth) Bert, read this again when you have a clear mind. |
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Post by alistairhenderson on Mar 3, 2017 21:23:18 GMT -5
Just a quick question for you Howitis.
I respect both you and Ross. You both admit that the respective church fellowships/associations/networks you are part of are imperfect (and full of imperfect people doing imperfect things). Add me to that list too!
All that aside, are you willing to say that you, I and Ross as born-again Christians, accepting all the historical, cultural and individual journeys that could divide us, have a common faith and trust in Christ alone (not our imperfect churches)? Cos that's how I see it, simply put. And to me, that is the most important thing after all the tumult and shouting dies away. We're all part of a very human church, manifest in many places and ways.
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Post by howitis on Mar 3, 2017 21:47:21 GMT -5
Yes alistairhenderson we can never cover our imperfections without having Christ and Christ alone in our life......in doing that we must accept Him fully, in all facets, being born again of His Spirit and not letting our selves become entangled in our ways and thinking......it all becomes very clear then doesn't it........instead of thinking others are wrong, we're more involved in us being right in the sight of God, we wouldn't want for the Holy Spirit to depart from us. |
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Post by alistairhenderson on Mar 3, 2017 22:08:08 GMT -5
Right, thanks. I think you are saying yes.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Mar 3, 2017 23:36:37 GMT -5
You see these women in the street looking like men Enuf?
T-shirts, singlets, short hair, shaved head, tattoos, smoking,
drinking (drunk) drug abuse, bad language, jeans, boots etc..
That's women acting like men.
Don't see it where I come from.
Some might say their **** church **** is from the beginning.
But no, our position is that what we believe in is from the
beginning - not dreamed up by some man (or woman dressed like
a man.)
That's why we say THE TRUTH and not THE CHURCH.
(there being plenty IN the church who are not of the Truth) Bert, read this again when you have a clear mind. LOL Is that even a possibility? |
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Post by Pragmatic on Mar 4, 2017 3:26:26 GMT -5
Ross' logic concerning the localisation of the church is similar to what I also apply to the Sunday morning meeting. If you tried to make personal choice decisions based on what happens globally, you'd never succeed.
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Post by fixit on Mar 4, 2017 4:57:08 GMT -5
Ross' logic concerning the localisation of the church is similar to what I also apply to the Sunday morning meeting. If you tried to make personal choice decisions based on what happens globally, you'd never succeed. That's how I see it. It may well be how most friends and workers see it. Brand 2x2 gets a lot of criticism on TMB, yet no one wants to own brand Anglican and brand Pentecostal and brand Baptist when they're being criticized.  |
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Post by blandie on Mar 4, 2017 5:09:31 GMT -5
LOL Is that even a possibility? Who knows? Maybe once he gets through pruberty he'll sort out - it does happen? I'm thinking bert's been waiting for that ever since he re-upped  Brand 2x2 gets a lot of criticism on TMB, yet no one wants to own brand Anglican and brand Pentecostal and brand Baptist when they're being criticized. Might be valid if it weren't for those signs right next to the streets telling every passerby that they're anglican or pentecostal or roman catholic or whatever along with not being cagey about what they believe and how their finances are run and that they do indeed have ministers and that they have taken names for whatever reasons and whether they have an organization and so forth. |
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Post by Gene on Mar 4, 2017 7:31:57 GMT -5
LOL Is that even a possibility? Who knows? Maybe once he gets through pruberty he'll sort out - it does happen? I'm thinking bert's been waiting for that ever since he re-upped Brand 2x2 gets a lot of criticism on TMB, yet no one wants to own brand Anglican and brand Pentecostal and brand Baptist when they're being criticized. Might be valid if it weren't for those signs right next to the streets telling every passerby that they're anglican or pentecostal or roman catholic or whatever along with not being cagey about what they believe and how their finances are run and that they do indeed have ministers and that they have taken names for whatever reasons and whether they have an organization and so forth. "Pruberty" -- ha! That deserves at least an honorable mention on Prubert's March Quotes list! |
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 4, 2017 17:06:27 GMT -5
Ross' logic concerning the localisation of the church is similar to what I also apply to the Sunday morning meeting. If you tried to make personal choice decisions based on what happens globally, you'd never succeed. That's how I see it. It may well be how most friends and workers see it. Brand 2x2 gets a lot of criticism on TMB, yet no one wants to own brand Anglican and brand Pentecostal and brand Baptist when they're being criticized. |
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Post by howitis on Mar 4, 2017 17:09:00 GMT -5
Sorry Ross.Bowden , please give references in Scripture, to where, as Christians we are asked to 'protect the Word of God' |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 18:24:12 GMT -5
doesn't fly ross...so the workers are not allowed to protect and uphold the word of God from heresy too? i think you've taken the big pill of hypocrisy and self-righteousness... Of course what I've said won't fly if you uphold the 2x2's exclusively as the only right church on earth. All churches outside the workers' church are preached as false and Christ's work outside of their church does not exist. You'll never hear a prayer for Christian work outside of your church because they Christians don't exist outside your church, according to the workers. Why not simply acknowledge that rather than pretending it's otherwise? apparently you've chosen a church that has some exclusiveness in it maybe you should stop pretending otherwise also.... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 18:36:02 GMT -5
apparently you've chosen a church that has some exclusiveness in it maybe you should stop pretending otherwise also.... Wally - this is a strange comment when I was the one who was quite open that ministers who preached heresy wouldn't be allowed to preach in our church. i understand the confusion, you've plopped right down into a church that has some exclusiveness in it that you thought you were escaping from the 2x2 for and you try to hide behind it by calling the other side heretical ministers... i am most positive we can find other christians who would delcare ALL anglican ministers heretical... |
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Post by hberry on Mar 4, 2017 18:54:38 GMT -5
Wally - this is a strange comment when I was the one who was quite open that ministers who preached heresy wouldn't be allowed to preach in our church. i understand the confusion, you've plopped right down into a church that has some exclusiveness in it that you thought you were escaping from the 2x2 for and you try to hide behind it by calling the other side heretical ministers... i am most positive we can find other christians who would delcare ALL anglican ministers heretical... I think the difference is that the exclusiveness of many other churches is based on the message (the content) of the gospel, not on the form of the messenger who delivers the gospel. From my years in the fellowship, I would say the exclusiveness of the fellowship is based on who delivers the message. I heard all my life that you needed to hear the gospel through the workers in order to be saved. It wasn't enough to hear the gospel from any other form of ministry. Maybe that is changing in some parts, but that was my experience. In my church, as in many that I know of, they believe you need to hear the gospel in order to be saved--from whatever ministry. However, the content of the gospel message that is preached is important and there are some ministers, Anglican and others, who have changed the content to fit cultural expectations--and those wouldn't be invited to preach at Ross's church. Or my church either. I would suspect that most Christians who know anything about Anglican history would disavow the notion that ALL Anglican ministers are heretical. One of my favorite Anglicans was John Stott. Love his commentaries and expositions. |
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Post by howitis on Mar 4, 2017 20:12:35 GMT -5
Sorry Ross.Bowden , please give references in Scripture, to where, as Christians we are asked to 'protect the Word of God' Here are a few where we are asked to protect and defend the faith, from heretical teaching. The faith is Christ, who is the Word of God. biblereasons.com/defending-the-faith/Methinks possibly you are squirming just a leetle bit so that the twisting is enabling you to see a leetle bit on a slant! So you are a 'keeper of the faith'? Interesting.....very RCC |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 17:24:25 GMT -5
i understand the confusion, you've plopped right down into a church that has some exclusiveness in it that you thought you were escaping from the 2x2 for and you try to hide behind it by calling the other side heretical ministers... i am most positive we can find other christians who would delcare ALL anglican ministers heretical... You obviously don't understand the mean of the word exclusive as it being talked about here. The leaders of your church (maybe bar one or two) believe all people outside it are destined for hell. In our church we accept other Christians and pray for them. It's like ..... 180 degrees different. Sure, the JW's, Mormons and 2x2's not only regard ALL Anglican ministers as heretical but ALL Christian ministers outside of their respective churches as heretical. sure i do...and as you admitted your church demonstrates some exclusiveness all under the guise of heresy. |
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Post by howitis on Mar 5, 2017 17:37:57 GMT -5
NathanB, Ross.Bowden and others, recently I have been having some discussions with an English, Anglican minister, he fully acknowledges and is almost embarrassed by the gowns, dog collars, incense etc....that are a part of his church, he also acknowledges that most people who 'go in for all that' never actually know God for themselves and revel in the ceremonial side of church going. Having said that he has come to the conclusion that churches have their place, as that is where most people begin their search for God, but as they continue to attend, read their bibles and pray they will be eventually drawn to a 'home based church', 'such as yours ,as that's how Gods true church should be'........interesting comments, from a very sincere gentleman, that is currently employed in the Anglican church........I wonder if he'll be one that will soon be 'not able to minister' in some churches, because of his beliefs. Makes one wonder just what is being 'protected'!!! Yes Ross.Bowden I believe my connections to the Anglican church goes back far beyond yours
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Post by howitis on Mar 5, 2017 19:02:22 GMT -5
Ross.Bowden , At least one person prays in every fellowship meeting that I have been in for years and years that God would hear ALL that call on His name, and that doesn't end there ...workers have been in these meetings and to my knowledge no one has ever been asked to pray differently.......to me that's not exclusive, that's not limiting.......perhaps it's a case of only wanting to hear that which suits the person's agenda at that time.....so thankful God hears and knows all PS this particular minister wasn't talking about bible studies in homes,halls and coffee shops, he was talking about his belief about fellowshipping in the home 'like you people do'.......guess he wouldn't be welcome as a minister at St Ives any time soon.
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Post by howitis on Mar 5, 2017 19:24:29 GMT -5
The only people who try to place limits on Gods work are ourselves Ross.Bowden, the fact that we think that we or another person can shows our disbelief in Him, nothing more, nothing less. As far as my contact goes, he is well aware of our conventions, gospel meetings etc, we have many general discussions and have had over a period of time it was not me who brought into the discussion about how or where I meet in fellowship. Next time he's in Australia I'll tell him to give you a call, to arrange him preaching at your church. |
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Post by friendly67 on Mar 5, 2017 19:49:56 GMT -5
sure i do...and as you admitted your church demonstrates some exclusiveness all under the guise of heresy. Thanks for being honest - I believed that at one time. But through life's experiences God showed that the work of Christ in the world was much bigger than the box I used to put it in. |
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Post by friendly67 on Mar 5, 2017 19:54:36 GMT -5
I have been to Ross's church for Christmas Carols, saw no gowns or incense, in fact I was impressed.
The thing that impressed me most was that the minister prayed for the homeless and the Syrians.
I have added them to my daily prayer list.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Mar 5, 2017 19:54:59 GMT -5
Methinks possibly you are squirming just a leetle bit so that the twisting is enabling you to see a leetle bit on a slant! So you are a 'keeper of the faith'? Interesting.....very RCC Isnt this the pot calling the skillet black? Ive heard more than one worker preach about keeping the faith. fOf course they were talking about keeping the faith cif the 2x2s. |
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Post by friendly67 on Mar 5, 2017 19:55:37 GMT -5
I have been to Ross's church for Christmas Carols, saw no gowns or incense, in fact I was impressed.
The thing that impressed me most was that the minister prayed for the homeless and the Syrians.
I have added them to my daily prayer list.
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