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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 3, 2015 2:01:00 GMT -5
Yes, a bit of education is absolutely necessary to understand the scriptures. An average of 8th grade reading level simply doesn't make it, especially with the KJV. Sorry, but you don't know what your talking about, it's nothing to do with a bit of education, it's to to with the heart condition! You don't hear God through education you hear him through the spirit in the heart. Jesus picked ordinary people, fishermen, tax collectors, etc. Not only scholars, some of these people try and see God in examining the scriptures. That won't work, it's through faith and prayer you hear and understand God, you receive the spirit, through faith in God and believing in Jesus. Not through a fleshly mind. I was talking about needing to be literate to first of all read the scriptures. I doubt very much that just any appropriately spiritual person can simply hold a Bible and understand it -- whether he can read it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 2:24:02 GMT -5
Sorry, but you don't know what your talking about, it's nothing to do with a bit of education, it's to to with the heart condition! You don't hear God through education you hear him through the spirit in the heart. Jesus picked ordinary people, fishermen, tax collectors, etc. Not only scholars, some of these people try and see God in examining the scriptures. That won't work, it's through faith and prayer you hear and understand God, you receive the spirit, through faith in God and believing in Jesus. Not through a fleshly mind. I was talking about needing to be literate to first of all read the scriptures. I doubt very much that just any appropriately spiritual person can simply hold a Bible and understand it -- whether he can read it or not. you don't need to read the Bible to understand even though to be able to read it is a privilege Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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Post by maryhig on Nov 3, 2015 2:26:41 GMT -5
Sorry, but you don't know what your talking about, it's nothing to do with a bit of education, it's to to with the heart condition! You don't hear God through education you hear him through the spirit in the heart. Jesus picked ordinary people, fishermen, tax collectors, etc. Not only scholars, some of these people try and see God in examining the scriptures. That won't work, it's through faith and prayer you hear and understand God, you receive the spirit, through faith in God and believing in Jesus. Not through a fleshly mind. I was talking about needing to be literate to first of all read the scriptures. I doubt very much that just any appropriately spiritual person can simply hold a Bible and understand it -- whether he can read it or not. I understand what you mean as far as reading the bible is concerned, but you really only need a basic education to read. And i think most 8th graders can read. But understanding the bible is completely different to being able to read it. And that understanding is given from God. I can read. But, i left school having the most basic education, enough just to get by, and I couldn't understand the KJV of the bible at all at one point. And it wasn't going to college that helped me understand, it was the spirit of God in my heart and in his people. I left school at 16. My education isn't great. I understand more through life than through school. Just like following Jesus, you understand him more by living it than just reading it. It's the doers of the word not the hearers only. It's not just listening to teachers or reading the bible, it's loving God, and living it out and listening to what the spirit teaches you in the heart.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 3, 2015 2:45:33 GMT -5
I was talking about needing to be literate to first of all read the scriptures. I doubt very much that just any appropriately spiritual person can simply hold a Bible and understand it -- whether he can read it or not. I understand what you mean as far as reading the bible is concerned, but you really only need a basic education to read. And i think most 8th graders can read. But understanding the bible is completely different to being able to read it. And that understanding is given from God. So you DID get my point. And I already knew that you think most people can't understand the Bible.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 3, 2015 2:48:23 GMT -5
I was talking about needing to be literate to first of all read the scriptures. I doubt very much that just any appropriately spiritual person can simply hold a Bible and understand it -- whether he can read it or not. you don't need to read the Bible to understand even though to be able to read it is a privilege Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Aha! Keep them ignorant and you can control them. Anything in there about the need for God to give the understanding? Maryhig believes that is how it works.
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 3, 2015 2:50:32 GMT -5
Our study this week is 1 Cor. 8. I read it in a modern version this morning. Here is what it says for part of the first few verses: ...We sometimes tend to think we know all we need to know to answer these kinds of questions—but sometimes our humble hearts can help us more than our proud minds. We never really know enough until we recognize that God alone knows it all.Now don't discount it because it's from a modern translation. The translator no doubt was an expert theologian. I agree with this, although, man can only translate words. But only God gives wisdom and understanding. And there is no greater translator in this to man, than through Christ himself. So why accept an English translation if the translators don't know what the original means?
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Post by maryhig on Nov 3, 2015 2:56:58 GMT -5
I agree with this, although, man can only translate words. But only God gives wisdom and understanding. And there is no greater translator in this to man, than through Christ himself. So why accept an English translation if the translators don't know what the original means? Some people can speak French and English, but they don't need to know God to translate one to the other. Same goes with the scriptures. Although, that doesn't mean the translators didn't know God. I didn't know them and I don't know their hearts, only God knows that one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 4:01:24 GMT -5
you don't need to read the Bible to understand even though to be able to read it is a privilege Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Aha! Keep them ignorant and you can control them. Anything in there about the need for God to give the understanding? Maryhig believes that is how it works. 1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase./understanding
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Post by maryhig on Nov 3, 2015 4:15:43 GMT -5
I understand what you mean as far as reading the bible is concerned, but you really only need a basic education to read. And i think most 8th graders can read. But understanding the bible is completely different to being able to read it. And that understanding is given from God. So you DID get my point. And I already knew that you think most people can't understand the Bible. Do I? when did I say that? I know that only people of God will truly understand the bible. It's nothing to do with how clever they are. And you definitely won't understand God if you don't believe, no matter how much studying of religion you do!
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Post by Rob Sargison on Nov 3, 2015 4:31:45 GMT -5
We read in the book of Acts it was the apostles/preachers appointed the church elders in many cities ( Acts 11:23). It was Paul who selected and appointed younger men (Timothy, Silas, John Mark, Luke, Apollo, etc) to be with him and Barnabas for the church future preachers/leadership.I have tried to warn the workers and the friends about CSA within our fellowship in the year 2000 through my 2x2 website.2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/thread/52/children-sexual-abuse-2x2-fellowshipHave you read Jerome F. overseer story? The overseers/workers around the world to take heed of this or they will end up in prison/jail like the overseer Jerome F and Bill D. for not reporting CSA.
Walker wrote: Bill Denk and Jerome Frandle had to complete community service/Jail due to covering up Darren Briggs' perverted behavior. Darren Briggs was arrested a few years ago for a wrestling session in a basement that led to molestation charges. A then 12 year old was victimized in a home where Bill was spending the night. Bill Denk and Darren Briggs were companions in 06-07. Workers are not apostles. They are untrained people who didn't even have enough smarts to make it through university. Perhaps if they went to Harvard Divinity School, I would consider them to have the extreme power to run a power structure like 2x2ism. But they are not. Many other churches have gone through this organizational structure debate, and the same Acts 11:23 was quoted in those discussions as well. The choice is between having a church that lasts due to its dynamic organizational structure or a church which collapses because of corruption of a rigid system like 2x2ism. It was good of you to warn about CSA. The Jerome F story is the tip of the iceberg. Convictions are extremely hard to get with a highly controlled group like 2x2s. It's amazing that so many convictions have been made. You might want to research about CSA among Hasidic Jews. They have an org structure similar to 2x2ism. Rampant CSA. One group that lives near me was rounded up in sting operation that resulted in I think 100 arrests. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_cases_in_Brooklyn's_Haredi_community Some amazingly thick people make it through university. I take it you made it through.....
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 3, 2015 5:05:22 GMT -5
Aha! Keep them ignorant and you can control them. Anything in there about the need for God to give the understanding? Maryhig believes that is how it works. 1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase./understanding Who decided that increase = understanding?
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Post by BobWilliston on Nov 3, 2015 5:06:22 GMT -5
So you DID get my point. And I already knew that you think most people can't understand the Bible. Do I? when did I say that? I know that only people of God will truly understand the bible. It's nothing to do with how clever they are. And you definitely won't understand God if you don't believe, no matter how much studying of religion you do! So you have to believe first, and then you'll understand.
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Post by maryhig on Nov 3, 2015 5:14:53 GMT -5
Do I? when did I say that? I know that only people of God will truly understand the bible. It's nothing to do with how clever they are. And you definitely won't understand God if you don't believe, no matter how much studying of religion you do! So you have to believe first, and then you'll understand. To truly understand God, you have to have faith yes. You can read the bible and know the scriptures inside out, but that doesn't give you understanding in God. 1 Corinthians 2 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. Sorry im just on my way out, so I won't be able to answer you again for now.
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Post by joanna on Nov 3, 2015 6:10:40 GMT -5
@simpleton "Workers are not apostles. They are untrained people who didn't even have enough smarts to make it through university". At least those who are not "trained" have an excuse for believing in ancient mythology. Tertiary institutions undermine the importance of evidenced-based research when offering courses which validate religious doctrine. Belief in the supernatural and critical thinking are inversely proportionate. There are unique factors within religious organisations which foster CSA ; the worship of a male deity feeds a hierarchy which is expert at avoiding the terrible consequences of the issues. CSA is another harmful consequence of religious indoctrination. I respect your name
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 3, 2015 6:11:22 GMT -5
Who hasn't heard of the sex crimes in perpetrated by Catholic priests. Now other denominations are finding similar as well. It seems that Child Sex Abuse is everywhere. What is most troubling is the rate of CSA in 2x2ism, the system of facilitation and obstruction of justice. As far as I can see, CSA in 2x2ism is vastly higher (perhaps 5 times higher) than normal. Here is a back of the envelope calculation: About 2000 workers worldwide, 1/3 are male, equals 600 male workers worldwide. Examine the CSA convictions on the Wings site. Add all the worker convictions. Then divide by 600. There's the rate, approximately 5%. And that is only convictions, not incidents. Then look at all the convictions for Obstruction of Justice in 2x2ism. Just imagine what the real rate of CSA incidents are; could be higher than 25% for male workers. Who knows. It's high that for sure. Contrast the 2x2 CSA conviction rate of 5% with the conviction rate of CSA among Catholic priests, which is less than 1%. There are about 500,000 male priests in Catholicism. Now consider what opportunities 2x2 workers have for committing CSA versus the opportunities that Catholic priests have. Most of the Catholic cases of CSA have been in all boys boarding schools; which is basically about as shooting-fish-in-a-barrel as you can imagine. 2x2 workers have to commit their CSA infractions in the homes of laity!! Much harder with Dad around don't you think? The 2x2 pedophiles are clearly at a disadvantage in terms of opportunity set, but they still are able to commit about 5 times the rate of incidents (just based on convictions). Then consider the ease of coverup in the Catholic community versus 2x2 community. Catholics are 100% integrated in the wider society; they are police officers, district attorneys, judges, etc. It's extremely hard to keep something smothered in the Catholic community as a result. 2x2s on the otherhand are not well integrated into the wider society. For many 2x2s, most if not all of their social interaction is with other 2x2s, all of whom are under worker control. The 2x2 situation is almost identical the Hasidic Jew problem with CSA. The Hasidic Jews, despite having married rabbis, every once and a while will get caught in a sting operation of hundreds of them caught in a CSA ring. This happens because the Hasids are not allowed to rat each other out to the police, according to their religious laws. So it takes only extreme situations to get a conviction of Hasids. Then consider that Catholics had instituted a massive amount of programs and processes to root out pedophiles. Background checks, psyc assessments, no adult and child one-on-one situations, hotlines, etc. The 2x2s? Nothing. Same old obfuscation and obstruction of justice. That's why the argument, "Everyone else does it, so why pick on us pious 2x2s", falls flat. Thank you @simpleton, for an excellent post !
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Post by jondough on Nov 3, 2015 8:57:20 GMT -5
Wow, I missed all the fun.
One simple person can unite people you never though possible.
Good entertainment.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 9:00:44 GMT -5
Ok cats. It's been fun. It's very late here in the Big Apple, so I must retire to my bed. NathanB, So now it seems you've added a further condition to your test. Now they have to be homeless for the sake of the Gospel. I'm going to spare asking whatever does this mean and just assume it means they are homeless by choice because they want to read the bible to people. There is also not a single mention of Living Witness Doctrine in the Gospels. I don't even know what you are talking about. That sounds like a new age fad. Leave their homes, families behind to be Itinerant preachers of the gospel to other nations, so people can hear the gospel message of their Salvation. They live unselfish lives... They live for others.
Paul wrote in I Cor. 1:18-21 for the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Jesus mention about His Living Witnesses in Acts 1:6-8 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost (Acts 2) is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Goodnight, sleep tight... see you next time... thanks, for the chat.Thanks NathanB. I've risen from the dead, the dead asleep. I'm going to continue this conversation only with you, since you are the only one of the 3 or 4 folks on this thread conversing with me who is arguing with logic and evidence. Itinerant preachers: Perhaps you've never been to NYC, but there are a lot of these types of people here. Almost every day on the subway I encounter one. I'm willing to bet that there are more homeless preachers in NYC than there are Workers in the world. Does that mean these homeless preachers in NYC are a sign that the Holy Spirit has infused them with the knowledge of the Scriptures? I know where you are going with this, that the 2x2 ministers are homeless, therefore that is proof that the Holy Spirit has infused them with knowledge of the Scriptures. There are a number of problems with this. 1) Why is it that homelessness is the only criterion? Why not the only characteristics mentioned of the 12 & 70 for the commission to the Jews? 2) Workers are not homeless. They know where they are going to sleep nearly every night. 2x2s have created effectively a pseudo-hotel system for workers. Many 2x2 homes have rooms especially configured for workers to sleep in. In reality, workers have hundreds of homes. Homes given to them by the Friends. Real homelessness is what goes on in NYC. This fake homelessness for workers is just a weasel way to try to meet the definition (don't personally own an home). This reeks of 'trying to outsmart God'. Acts 1:6-8 says that the Apostles are to be witness of the fact that Jesus existed. Workers are not Apostles. Nor is anyone else in the modern era.
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Post by rational on Nov 3, 2015 9:37:55 GMT -5
your math is a little fuzzy I count 23 convictions on the wings site not all of them are workers its less than 3.8% by your calculation of male workers(600) the number of catholic preists was about 400,000 in 2005 the number of convictions was 6,000+... we don't know if its high or not that's just conjecture
thanks Wally. that's 3.8% for 2x2ism vs 1.5% for Catholics. Almost 3 times higher for 2x2ism. And Catholics had the shooting-fish-in-a-barrel all boy schools to work with. 2x2s, only got the chance to do in the homes of Friends when Mom and Dad were home. The numbers do not seem to agree with the generally accepted research. Do you have any data to back up your claim that CSA was higher in the F&W? In the past 50 years approximately 4% of priests had a sexual experience with a minor. The same number is quoted as the approximate percent of adults who abuse children in the general population. www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 9:43:11 GMT -5
The difference between the men overseers send forth and the ones Jesus sent forth is he sent forth men with life experiences.
That is lacking in who overseers send forth today. Boys and girls who go from being taken care of by mommy and daddy to being taken care of by friends and older men and women who had the same experiences.
Not a great learning environment to learn the truths of the bible.
There are a few truth teachers among the older workers who care about their charges, but for most are on a power trip.
Why not let these boys and girls grow up and get some life experiences so they can understand the lives of those they are to minister and care about???
Maybe because the overseers feel they will never get someone with life experiences in the work. Why did Jesus himself get life experiences before he went forth.
Are overseers today smarter then Jesus???
I do not believe formal training is a requirement. I do believe experiences in life are much more important. Formal educations is not the only way to be educated. There are many people walking around with degrees on paper who have no idea how to deal with their fellowman. I do believe one of the best experiences of higher educations is learning to listen and deal with people from different background. There is this fear of most workers and friends that you will be swayed by something just because you are exposed to it. If your faith is that fragile, then you sooner or later you will have no faith. It is adversity that strengthens one faith not agreement.
My faith in God has been strengthened on this board. Most workers do not want young people exposed to this board. Why, fear of what they might learn about worker or friends, not fear of what they might learn about GOD!
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Post by rational on Nov 3, 2015 9:44:59 GMT -5
However, the number of workers who graduated from university before becoming a worker is extremely tiny. Define tiny, please. What would you guess the probability that facts support your statement? Greater than 0.5?
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Post by rational on Nov 3, 2015 9:49:24 GMT -5
Some amazingly thick people make it through university. I take it you made it through..... When building, it is very satisfying when the hammer strikes the nail squarely on the head and drives the nail home. Some people have that gift with words.
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Post by What Hat on Nov 3, 2015 9:58:20 GMT -5
Who hasn't heard of the sex crimes in perpetrated by Catholic priests. Now other denominations are finding similar as well. It seems that Child Sex Abuse is everywhere. What is most troubling is the rate of CSA in 2x2ism, the system of facilitation and obstruction of justice. As far as I can see, CSA in 2x2ism is vastly higher (perhaps 5 times higher) than normal. Here is a back of the envelope calculation: About 2000 workers worldwide, 1/3 are male, equals 600 male workers worldwide. Examine the CSA convictions on the Wings site. Add all the worker convictions. Then divide by 600. There's the rate, approximately 5%. And that is only convictions, not incidents. Then look at all the convictions for Obstruction of Justice in 2x2ism. Just imagine what the real rate of CSA incidents are; could be higher than 25% for male workers. Who knows. It's high that for sure. Contrast the 2x2 CSA conviction rate of 5% with the conviction rate of CSA among Catholic priests, which is less than 1%. There are about 500,000 male priests in Catholicism. Now consider what opportunities 2x2 workers have for committing CSA versus the opportunities that Catholic priests have. Most of the Catholic cases of CSA have been in all boys boarding schools; which is basically about as shooting-fish-in-a-barrel as you can imagine. 2x2 workers have to commit their CSA infractions in the homes of laity!! Much harder with Dad around don't you think? The 2x2 pedophiles are clearly at a disadvantage in terms of opportunity set, but they still are able to commit about 5 times the rate of incidents (just based on convictions). Then consider the ease of coverup in the Catholic community versus 2x2 community. Catholics are 100% integrated in the wider society; they are police officers, district attorneys, judges, etc. It's extremely hard to keep something smothered in the Catholic community as a result. 2x2s on the otherhand are not well integrated into the wider society. For many 2x2s, most if not all of their social interaction is with other 2x2s, all of whom are under worker control. The 2x2 situation is almost identical the Hasidic Jew problem with CSA. The Hasidic Jews, despite having married rabbis, every once and a while will get caught in a sting operation of hundreds of them caught in a CSA ring. This happens because the Hasids are not allowed to rat each other out to the police, according to their religious laws. So it takes only extreme situations to get a conviction of Hasids. Then consider that Catholics had instituted a massive amount of programs and processes to root out pedophiles. Background checks, psyc assessments, no adult and child one-on-one situations, hotlines, etc. The 2x2s? Nothing. Same old obfuscation and obstruction of justice. That's why the argument, "Everyone else does it, so why pick on us pious 2x2s", falls flat. Why would you want to prove which group is the worst? What's the point of figuring that out. Aside from the fact that your diatribe against the friends is highly conjectural and deeply flawed, one wonders why all the mental and posting effort into such an exercise. What's your motive in this, simpleton? Be honest.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Nov 3, 2015 10:12:29 GMT -5
Who hasn't heard of the sex crimes in perpetrated by Catholic priests. Now other denominations are finding similar as well. It seems that Child Sex Abuse is everywhere. What is most troubling is the rate of CSA in 2x2ism, the system of facilitation and obstruction of justice. As far as I can see, CSA in 2x2ism is vastly higher (perhaps 5 times higher) than normal. Here is a back of the envelope calculation: About 2000 workers worldwide, 1/3 are male, equals 600 male workers worldwide. Examine the CSA convictions on the Wings site. Add all the worker convictions. Then divide by 600. There's the rate, approximately 5%. And that is only convictions, not incidents. Then look at all the convictions for Obstruction of Justice in 2x2ism. Just imagine what the real rate of CSA incidents are; could be higher than 25% for male workers. Who knows. It's high that for sure. Contrast the 2x2 CSA conviction rate of 5% with the conviction rate of CSA among Catholic priests, which is less than 1%. There are about 500,000 male priests in Catholicism. That's why the argument, "Everyone else does it, so why pick on us pious 2x2s", falls flat. your math is a little fuzzy I count 23 convictions on the wings site not all of them are workers its less than 3.8% by your calculation of male workers(600) the number of catholic preists was about 400,000 in 2005 the number of convictions was 6,000+... we don't know if its high or not that's just conjecture
thanks Wally. that's 3.8% for 2x2ism vs 1.5% for Catholics. Almost 3 times higher for 2x2ism. And Catholics had the shooting-fish-in-a-barrel all boy schools to work with. 2x2s, only got the chance to do in the homes of Friends when Mom and Dad were home. Your argument is the one that falls flat. As others have pointed out 14 of the 23 listed convictions are not workers. In addition you cannot use the number of current workers since some of the convictions listed date back to offences committed 25 years ago. To be accurate (if accuracy is actually what you want) you must use a cumulative number from the 25 year period. Even if you don't correctly use an accurate cumulative number 9 worker convictions is 1.5% of the 600 you did use. After that huge mistake I'm surprised you would blunder on with statements like; Workers are not apostles. They are untrained people who didn't even have enough smarts to make it through university But somehow, I made it out of 2x2ism to achieve 3 degrees; including one from an Ivy League school
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Nov 3, 2015 10:18:26 GMT -5
thanks Wally. that's 3.8% for 2x2ism vs 1.5% for Catholics. Almost 3 times higher for 2x2ism. And Catholics had the shooting-fish-in-a-barrel all boy schools to work with. 2x2s, only got the chance to do in the homes of Friends when Mom and Dad were home. The numbers do not seem to agree with the generally accepted research. Do you have any data to back up your claim that CSA was higher in the F&W? In the past 50 years approximately 4% of priests had a sexual experience with a minor. The same number is quoted as the approximate percent of adults who abuse children in the general population. www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.html@simpleton's math is wrong. Using the correct number of worker convictions, 9, helps. Even if you use the incorrect low number of 600 male workers the rate is 1.5% not 3.8% or 5%.
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Post by jondough on Nov 3, 2015 10:31:31 GMT -5
Your point is an important one Jesse. You must use cumulative over the same time period if you're going to use cumulative convictions over a time period.
Huge difference.
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Post by rational on Nov 3, 2015 10:42:21 GMT -5
Thanks NathanB. I've risen from the dead, the dead asleep. I'm going to continue this conversation only with you, since you are the only one of the 3 or 4 folks on this thread conversing with me who is arguing with logic and evidence. Present some data to back up your premises and you may find some logical responses. You will probably not get many logical responses to illogical conclusions derived from whole cloth. I think I would take that bet. First you would need to classify homeless. Do you include people living in shelters or just those sleeping rough? Are you including all homeless or just adult males? And finally, what is your number for the total number of workers in the world?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 10:43:23 GMT -5
thanks Wally. that's 3.8% for 2x2ism vs 1.5% for Catholics. Almost 3 times higher for 2x2ism. And Catholics had the shooting-fish-in-a-barrel all boy schools to work with. 2x2s, only got the chance to do in the homes of Friends when Mom and Dad were home. The numbers do not seem to agree with the generally accepted research. Do you have any data to back up your claim that CSA was higher in the F&W? In the past 50 years approximately 4% of priests had a sexual experience with a minor. The same number is quoted as the approximate percent of adults who abuse children in the general population. www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625www.psychwww.com/psyrelig/plante.htmlhere is the Nesweek quote: The only hard data that has been made public by any denomination comes from John Jay College's study of Catholic priests, which was authorized and is being paid for by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops following the public outcry over the 2002 scandals. Limiting their study to plausible accusations made between 1950 and 1992, John Jay researchers reported that about 4 percent of the 110,000 priests active during those years had been accused of sexual misconduct involving children. Specifically, 4,392 complaints (ranging from "sexual talk" to rape) were made against priests by 10,667 victims
Notice that is only US priests and that is talking about complaints, not convictions. Let's do the same restriction on 2x2 ministers; only use the US male workers population and only complaints of CSA against US male workers. I don't have data on complaints for US male workers. Maybe you do. The only data I have seen is the convictions on the WINGS site. So I was restricted to compare Worker convictions with Priest convictions. I did it using global population figures for each set. Furthermore, it is very important to get behind the numbers and realize that the playing field for priest vs workers is not the same. Priests had 100% access to children in the boarding schools. Workers have very limited access to children.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 10:45:46 GMT -5
I think I would take that bet. First you would need to classify homeless. Do you include people living in shelters or just those sleeping rough? Are you including all homeless or just adult males? And finally, what is your number for the total number of workers in the world? www.bowery.org/homelessness/In a city of 8.5 million people, more than 56,000 homeless men, women and children sleep in homeless shelters and at least 3,300 more sleep on the streets and subways in the dead of winter. You can do the rest of the math.
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