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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 21:23:31 GMT -5
Who hasn't heard of the sex crimes in perpetrated by Catholic priests. Now other denominations are finding similar as well. It seems that Child Sex Abuse is everywhere.
What is most troubling is the rate of CSA in 2x2ism, the system of facilitation and obstruction of justice. As far as I can see, CSA in 2x2ism is vastly higher (perhaps 5 times higher) than normal. Here is a back of the envelope calculation: About 2000 workers worldwide, 1/3 are male, equals 600 male workers worldwide. Examine the CSA convictions on the Wings site. Add all the worker convictions. Then divide by 600. There's the rate, approximately 5%. And that is only convictions, not incidents. Then look at all the convictions for Obstruction of Justice in 2x2ism. Just imagine what the real rate of CSA incidents are; could be higher than 25% for male workers. Who knows. It's high that for sure. Contrast the 2x2 CSA conviction rate of 5% with the conviction rate of CSA among Catholic priests, which is less than 1%. There are about 500,000 male priests in Catholicism.
Now consider what opportunities 2x2 workers have for committing CSA versus the opportunities that Catholic priests have. Most of the Catholic cases of CSA have been in all boys boarding schools; which is basically about as shooting-fish-in-a-barrel as you can imagine. 2x2 workers have to commit their CSA infractions in the homes of laity!! Much harder with Dad around don't you think? The 2x2 pedophiles are clearly at a disadvantage in terms of opportunity set, but they still are able to commit about 5 times the rate of incidents (just based on convictions).
Then consider the ease of coverup in the Catholic community versus 2x2 community. Catholics are 100% integrated in the wider society; they are police officers, district attorneys, judges, etc. It's extremely hard to keep something smothered in the Catholic community as a result. 2x2s on the otherhand are not well integrated into the wider society. For many 2x2s, most if not all of their social interaction is with other 2x2s, all of whom are under worker control. The 2x2 situation is almost identical the Hasidic Jew problem with CSA. The Hasidic Jews, despite having married rabbis, every once and a while will get caught in a sting operation of hundreds of them caught in a CSA ring. This happens because the Hasids are not allowed to rat each other out to the police, according to their religious laws. So it takes only extreme situations to get a conviction of Hasids.
Then consider that Catholics had instituted a massive amount of programs and processes to root out pedophiles. Background checks, psyc assessments, no adult and child one-on-one situations, hotlines, etc. The 2x2s? Nothing. Same old obfuscation and obstruction of justice.
That's why the argument, "Everyone else does it, so why pick on us pious 2x2s", falls flat.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 21:41:26 GMT -5
I'd believe it NathanB if the facts backed it up. Unfortunately 2x2ism is rampant with CSA and coverups. It is the very organizational structure which creates this problem. In a normal church, the laity (Friends) elect the Elders, who in turn hire a minister (worker). The minister is selected based on their training, etc. The minister is given a house so that they can have privacy. Not so in 2x2ism. In 2x2ism the Overseers hire the workers, who hire the Elders, who police the Friends. There can never be full accountability with a power structure like this. There will always be abuse. Other churches recognized this problem long time ago (1776 for the Episcopalians), and set up the more democratic structure that provides transparency, accountability, and fairness. 2x2ism is basically Stalinism.
The entire organizational structure edifice of 2x2ism works to facilitate and obfuscate abuse; sexual abuse of children, emotional abuse of spouses, emotional abuse of children, intellectual abuse, retardation of learning, terrorization, etc. The extremely hierarchical and lack of rule-of-law system is designed so as its goal is to have a group of sycophantic slaves willing to sacrifice anything (including their own children) in exchange for status in the group. The essence of 2x2ism is to play upon psychological insecurity; the need to feel special, the need to feel part of an accepting group, the need to feel accepted by an authority figure, etc. It's so maniacal that Workers do not achieve their positions by competence or training, but instead by simply being willing enough to exhibit the ultimate in group conformity behavior. Imagine, elevating a 18 year old untrained halfwit to be a Worker over a group of adults and children. It boggles the mind. It's as if Pol Pot got his destructive ideas from 2x2ism. The system is enforced and maintained by the threat (and sometimes action) of demotion or expulsion. An action which places a member into a position of having their entire social structure removed from them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 21:42:45 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 21:45:09 GMT -5
Bert, who cares about some rumors. What we care about is all the CONVICTIONS of CSA. The police and court documents do not lie. Or is it your opinion that Satan put those little boys bums in front of those Overseers to test them?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 22:05:00 GMT -5
We read in the book of Acts it was the apostles/preachers appointed the church elders in many cities ( Acts 11:23). It was Paul who selected and appointed younger men (Timothy, Silas, John Mark, Luke, Apollo, etc) to be with him and Barnabas for the church future preachers/leadership.I have tried to warn the workers and the friends about CSA within our fellowship in the year 2000 through my 2x2 website.2x2friendsworkers.proboards.com/thread/52/children-sexual-abuse-2x2-fellowshipHave you read Jerome F. overseer story? The overseers/workers around the world to take heed of this or they will end up in prison/jail like the overseer Jerome F and Bill D. for not reporting CSA.
Walker wrote: Bill Denk and Jerome Frandle had to complete community service/Jail due to covering up Darren Briggs' perverted behavior. Darren Briggs was arrested a few years ago for a wrestling session in a basement that led to molestation charges. A then 12 year old was victimized in a home where Bill was spending the night. Bill Denk and Darren Briggs were companions in 06-07. Workers are not apostles. They are untrained people who didn't even have enough smarts to make it through university. Perhaps if they went to Harvard Divinity School, I would consider them to have the extreme power to run a power structure like 2x2ism. But they are not. Many other churches have gone through this organizational structure debate, and the same Acts 11:23 was quoted in those discussions as well. The choice is between having a church that lasts due to its dynamic organizational structure or a church which collapses because of corruption of a rigid system like 2x2ism. It was good of you to warn about CSA. The Jerome F story is the tip of the iceberg. Convictions are extremely hard to get with a highly controlled group like 2x2s. It's amazing that so many convictions have been made. You might want to research about CSA among Hasidic Jews. They have an org structure similar to 2x2ism. Rampant CSA. One group that lives near me was rounded up in sting operation that resulted in I think 100 arrests. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_cases_in_Brooklyn's_Haredi_community
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 22:23:28 GMT -5
Think about it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 22:26:48 GMT -5
Who hasn't heard of the sex crimes in perpetrated by Catholic priests. Now other denominations are finding similar as well. It seems that Child Sex Abuse is everywhere. What is most troubling is the rate of CSA in 2x2ism, the system of facilitation and obstruction of justice. As far as I can see, CSA in 2x2ism is vastly higher (perhaps 5 times higher) than normal. Here is a back of the envelope calculation: About 2000 workers worldwide, 1/3 are male, equals 600 male workers worldwide. Examine the CSA convictions on the Wings site. Add all the worker convictions. Then divide by 600. There's the rate, approximately 5%. And that is only convictions, not incidents. Then look at all the convictions for Obstruction of Justice in 2x2ism. Just imagine what the real rate of CSA incidents are; could be higher than 25% for male workers. Who knows. It's high that for sure. Contrast the 2x2 CSA conviction rate of 5% with the conviction rate of CSA among Catholic priests, which is less than 1%. There are about 500,000 male priests in Catholicism. Now consider what opportunities 2x2 workers have for committing CSA versus the opportunities that Catholic priests have. Most of the Catholic cases of CSA have been in all boys boarding schools; which is basically about as shooting-fish-in-a-barrel as you can imagine. 2x2 workers have to commit their CSA infractions in the homes of laity!! Much harder with Dad around don't you think? The 2x2 pedophiles are clearly at a disadvantage in terms of opportunity set, but they still are able to commit about 5 times the rate of incidents (just based on convictions). Then consider the ease of coverup in the Catholic community versus 2x2 community. Catholics are 100% integrated in the wider society; they are police officers, district attorneys, judges, etc. It's extremely hard to keep something smothered in the Catholic community as a result. 2x2s on the otherhand are not well integrated into the wider society. For many 2x2s, most if not all of their social interaction is with other 2x2s, all of whom are under worker control. The 2x2 situation is almost identical the Hasidic Jew problem with CSA. The Hasidic Jews, despite having married rabbis, every once and a while will get caught in a sting operation of hundreds of them caught in a CSA ring. This happens because the Hasids are not allowed to rat each other out to the police, according to their religious laws. So it takes only extreme situations to get a conviction of Hasids. Then consider that Catholics had instituted a massive amount of programs and processes to root out pedophiles. Background checks, psyc assessments, no adult and child one-on-one situations, hotlines, etc. The 2x2s? Nothing. Same old obfuscation and obstruction of justice. That's why the argument, "Everyone else does it, so why pick on us pious 2x2s", falls flat. your math is a little fuzzy I count 23 convictions on the wings site not all of them are workers its less than 3.8% by your calculation of male workers(600) the number of catholic preists was about 400,000 in 2005 the number of convictions was 6,000+... we don't know if its high or not that's just conjecture
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 22:35:25 GMT -5
Workers are not apostles. Well, that is your opinion. My opinion the workers whom are called and chosen by God they are apostles-sent ones.In other words, apostles are anyone who you NathanB say is an apostle. The definition of 'apostle' is very specific. The apostles were the 12 primary disciples of Jesus. No one else ever was or is called an apostle. Only lunatics like David Koresh call themselves apostles. Most of the apostles didn't attend rabbi training school. The younger preachers learned from their older fellow-apostles in service training by being their helpers/learners. All of the apostles were illiterate Aramaic speaking men of the lower ranks of Jewish society. They couldn't read. They couldn't write. That's why they accomplished very little compared to the well educated Greek speaking Paul. Why do you think the entire post 400AD educational system in Western Civilization was created and maintained by the Roman Catholic Church? Because uneducated people can't read well, and most certainly cannot understand the Scriptures very well. Case in point the whole 2x2 misunderstanding of Grace, Jesus, and Matt 10. If you want to learn about the Scriptures, go to someone who is an expert in them. Where do you find that? Someone who has been trained. Want to get confused about the Scriptures, go to someone who is untrained. Would you go to an untrained doctor for heart surgery? No. Why would you put your salvation in the hands of untrained halfwits.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 22:39:14 GMT -5
and yet jesus trusted "untrained" men such as the apostles over "educated" men such as the Pharisees and Sadducees
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 22:39:15 GMT -5
your math is a little fuzzy I count 23 convictions on the wings site not all of them are workers its less than 3.8% by your calculation of male workers(600) the number of catholic preists was about 400,000 in 2005 the number of convictions was 6,000+... we don't know if its high or not that's just conjecture
thanks Wally. that's 3.8% for 2x2ism vs 1.5% for Catholics. Almost 3 times higher for 2x2ism. And Catholics had the shooting-fish-in-a-barrel all boy schools to work with. 2x2s, only got the chance to do in the homes of Friends when Mom and Dad were home.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 22:40:55 GMT -5
and yet jesus trusted "untrained" men such as the apostles over "educated" men such as the Pharisees and Sadducees Jesus, a Divine Being, was there telling the apostles what to say. Jesus is not here with the workers. It's a pretty big difference.
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Post by fixit on Nov 2, 2015 23:03:41 GMT -5
They are untrained people who didn't even have enough smarts to make it through university. That's an ignorant statement to make. I know several who graduated from university and had promising careers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 23:12:45 GMT -5
They are untrained people who didn't even have enough smarts to make it through university. That's an ignorant statement to make. I know several who graduated from university and had promising careers. You are absolutely correct. I definitely generalized a bit too much with that statement. Certainly it is not the case that all workers fit this description. However, the number of workers who graduated from university before becoming a worker is extremely tiny. So while the generalized is wrong in the absolute, it definitely is an extremely high probability. As for the few workers who graduated from university, was it before or after workerhip? Did they graduate from divinity school? I don't know a single worker who graduated from divinity school. I, and every mainline church in America, would never hire a preacher who was untrained in theology.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 2, 2015 23:30:47 GMT -5
That's an ignorant statement to make. I know several who graduated from university and had promising careers. You are absolutely correct. I definitely generalized a bit too much with that statement. Certainly it is not the case that all workers fit this description. However, the number of workers who graduated from university before becoming a worker is extremely tiny. So while the generalized is wrong in the absolute, it definitely is an extremely high probability. As for the few workers who graduated from university, was it before or after workerhip? Did they graduate from divinity school? I don't know a single worker who graduated from divinity school. I, and every mainline church in America, would never hire a preacher who was untrained in theology. Even though I am not in the "fellowship" any more, I do agree with fixit, -that your statement was an ignorant statement for you to make, simpleton. Do you realize WHY the number of workers who graduated from university before becoming a worker is so extremely tiny?
How long have you been professing, if you ever did? If you had been in as long as I was, -you surely would know that for a long time you were discouraged to get any higher education more that required by law.
Most of the girls & a lot of the boys didn't even go to high school, -let alone University!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 23:43:49 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1446525047000" class="time" title="Nov 2, 2015 23:30:47 GMT -5">Nov 2, 2015 23:30:47 GMT -5</abbr> dmmichgood said: Even though I am not in the "fellowship" any more, I do agree with fixit, -that your statement was an ignorant statement for you to make, simpleton. Do you realize WHY the number of workers who graduated from university before becoming a worker is so extremely tiny?
How long have you been professing, if you ever did? If you had been in as long as I was, -you surely would know that for a long time you were discouraged to get any higher education more that required by law.
Most of the girls & a lot of the boys didn't even go to high school, -let alone University!
I understand your statement. I did not say all workers never went to university. In fact in my last comment I said that it was a vast majority who did not. That is a factual statement. That is not ignorance. I was raised in 2x2ism. My family is 4 generations in it. I have a pretty good idea of the ins and outs. I've been free of it for 25 years. Yes, I know that learning was discouraged. That's horrible, of course. This is just another one of the abusive tactics 2x2ism has imposed on its members. It many ways, it is child abuse to discourage education. But somehow, I made it out of 2x2ism to achieve 3 degrees; including one from an Ivy League school. Determination and defiance of 2x2ism is how I did it. My heart bleeds for all children inside 2x2ism. I know that education is not a high priority for those kids; becoming a tramp preacher is a much more encouraged.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 23:46:40 GMT -5
Bert, who cares about some rumors. What we care about is all the CONVICTIONS of CSA. The police and court documents do not lie. Or is it your opinion that Satan put those little boys bums in front of those Overseers to test them? is there a reason you call yourself simpleton?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 23:54:35 GMT -5
You have underestimated the Power and wisdom of God, it wasn't by accident that Jesus had chosen untrained, fishermen, tax collector ordinary men to be his first apostles=sent ones.... Look at these uneducated men, not attending any religious seminary school, began with Jesus and how they became mighty men of God in Acts 2.
With the guiding, training, and leading of the Holy Spirit, He can turn any of his untrained apostle into the mighty warriors/ministers of God. God took someone untrained, ordinary men and turn them into the leaders/apostles of the churches.
Would the people in Jesus and Paul days trust their Salvation with the well-trained Pharisees, Saducees rabbi or in the untrained, uneducated apostles of Jesus? Jesus, a divine being, was there with those untrained illiterates. If you believe that the Holy Spirit can turn an untrained person into an expert on Scripture, then please tell me how you would test if that person is an expert or not? Any lunatic can say the Holy Spirit guided them to knowledge. David Koresh for example. How do you tell the difference? How do you know that the Holy Spirit really did what the person claims? Only by testing them. And how would you test them? In otherwords, give them an exam. If they could pass the test, then I would be perfectly happy to agree with you that untrained folks can be guided by the Holy Spirit to knowledge of Scriptures. But there is no way any sane person is going to accept that just because someone says they are knowledgeable, that they actually are knowledgeable.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 23:57:19 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1446525047000" class="time" title="Nov 2, 2015 23:30:47 GMT -5">Nov 2, 2015 23:30:47 GMT -5</abbr> dmmichgood said: Even though I am not in the "fellowship" any more, I do agree with fixit, -that your statement was an ignorant statement for you to make, simpleton. Do you realize WHY the number of workers who graduated from university before becoming a worker is so extremely tiny?
How long have you been professing, if you ever did? If you had been in as long as I was, -you surely would know that for a long time you were discouraged to get any higher education more that required by law.
Most of the girls & a lot of the boys didn't even go to high school, -let alone University!
I understand your statement. I did not say all workers never went to university. In fact in my last comment I said that it was a vast majority who did not. That is a factual statement. That is not ignorance. I was raised in 2x2ism. My family is 4 generations in it. I have a pretty good idea of the ins and outs. I've been free of it for 25 years. Yes, I know that learning was discouraged. That's horrible, of course. This is just another one of the abusive tactics 2x2ism has imposed on its members. It many ways, it is child abuse to discourage education. But somehow, I made it out of 2x2ism to achieve 3 degrees; including one from an Ivy League school. Determination and defiance of 2x2ism is how I did it. My heart bleeds for all children inside 2x2ism. I know that education is not a high priority for those kids; becoming a tramp preacher is a much more encouraged. you have been out for 25 years and then have the gall to say about who went to university or not, how on this earth would you know 1% of it all? i personally of my relatives in the work whom were four that one was nurse so had university training, two were horticulturalists with university training, and the other was dux at his high school, i don't know about the rest of his training but hazzard a guess that he also went to uni i also know many not of family who have a many good degrees so if you want to live up to you posting name carry on posting as you have
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 23:58:05 GMT -5
My first year and second year older companion in the work 1986-88 was a University professor in Oregon. I had known of workers who were doctors, and others have attended medical school. There are many workers who were engineers, accountants, artists, professional celloist, etc before they went in the work.
One of my older companions in the work John Sterling, had a niece, who was a dentist before she went in the work in California. She is a worker on California staff now. I know of a worker in Pakistan, who had a sister was a doctor in USA before she went in the work.
In the 80s the overseers encourage young people to get an education, go to colleges, get a profession just in case if they ever leave the work, they would have something to fall back to.
I was planning to attend Pentecostal Seminary school in Minot, South Dakota to become a Pentecostal minister before I met the workers in 1979 on the island of Guam. Thanks for all this info NathanB. It's great that more than zero workers got an education. But you know as well as I that the Percentage is in the single digits. A few examples does not make the rule.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 0:00:13 GMT -5
you have been out for 25 years and then have the gall to say about who went to university or not, how on this earth would you know 1% of it all? i personally of my relatives in the work whom were four that one was nurse so had university training, two were horticulturalists with university training, and the other was dux at his high school, i don't know about the rest of his training but hazzard a guess that he also went to uni i also know many not of family who have a many good degrees so if you want to live up to you posting name carry on posting as you have I'm sorry, I can't understand exactly what you are trying to say. You seem to have a problem with grammar and punctuation. If you want to show that the majority of 2x2 workers are educated, please show me the stats. A few examples do not make a rule.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 0:01:53 GMT -5
You can test them by asking questions... watching the way how they live... comparing their lives with Jesus and his apostles... You can test me to see my teachings, beliefs, doctrines are sound or NOT. To see Has the Spirit taught and revealed to me these things. So you see if they wear sandals, raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind? What exactly do you look for in the way they live?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 0:03:32 GMT -5
You have underestimated the Power and wisdom of God, it wasn't by accident that Jesus had chosen untrained, fishermen, tax collector ordinary men to be his first apostles=sent ones.... Look at these uneducated men, not attending any religious seminary school, began with Jesus and how they became mighty men of God in Acts 2.
With the guiding, training, and leading of the Holy Spirit, He can turn any of his untrained apostle into the mighty warriors/ministers of God. God took someone untrained, ordinary men and turn them into the leaders/apostles of the churches.
Would the people in Jesus and Paul days trust their Salvation with the well-trained Pharisees, Saducees rabbi or in the untrained, uneducated apostles of Jesus? Jesus, a divine being, was there with those untrained illiterates. If you believe that the Holy Spirit can turn an untrained person into an expert on Scripture, then please tell me how you would test if that person is an expert or not? Any lunatic can say the Holy Spirit guided them to knowledge. David Koresh for example. How do you tell the difference? How do you know that the Holy Spirit really did what the person claims? Only by testing them. And how would you test them? In otherwords, give them an exam. If they could pass the test, then I would be perfectly happy to agree with you that untrained folks can be guided by the Holy Spirit to knowledge of Scriptures. But there is no way any sane person is going to accept that just because someone says they are knowledgeable, that they actually are knowledgeable. who needs to be an expert on the scripture? i would hazzard another guess that a good deal of the workers would know more about the scriptures that you would why should any one sit an exam? sound just like what the Pharisee would do and they certainly tried that on Jesus here's a question just for you knowledge, which is the most disputed verse in the Bible?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 0:07:57 GMT -5
you have been out for 25 years and then have the gall to say about who went to university or not, how on this earth would you know 1% of it all? i personally of my relatives in the work whom were four that one was nurse so had university training, two were horticulturalists with university training, and the other was dux at his high school, i don't know about the rest of his training but hazzard a guess that he also went to uni i also know many not of family who have a many good degrees so if you want to live up to you posting name carry on posting as you have I'm sorry, I can't understand exactly what you are trying to say. You seem to have a problem with grammar and punctuation. If you want to show that the majority of 2x2 workers are educated, please show me the stats. A few examples do not make a rule. why should anyone show you stats? you say you have trouble in understanding exactly what i'm trying to say but seem to understand enough to ask for stats
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 0:09:06 GMT -5
You can test them by asking questions... watching the way how they live... comparing their lives with Jesus and his apostles... You can test me to see my teachings, beliefs, doctrines are sound or NOT. To see Has the Spirit taught and revealed to me these things. So you see if they wear sandals, raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind? What exactly do you look for in the way they live? if you had Gods Spirit you would know
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 0:12:16 GMT -5
Who needs to be an expert on anything then. Why don't you take your car for repair with the homeless guy on the street. Why do you go to a hospital instead of the homeless guy for medical assistance? It's nonsense to think that anyone who is capable of basic reading skills can be considered an authority on Scripture (and Workers are definitely considered authorities). Following your logic, anyone who can read at a grade one level is capable of knowing the Scriptures and preaching to others. Why don't you just grab some kindergarten kids and get them to tell you what the Gospels are. Look, the issue is that thousands of lunatics claim they have found the hidden truth in the Scriptures that no one else has found. There are 36,000 different Protestant denominations in the USA. Why do you think that is? It's because the Bible is rather difficult to read unless you are trained to understand the linkages and contexts. If you don't understand all those things, then you end up misrepresenting Scripture. Does the 7th Day Adventists ring a bell?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 0:14:43 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I can't understand exactly what you are trying to say. You seem to have a problem with grammar and punctuation. If you want to show that the majority of 2x2 workers are educated, please show me the stats. A few examples do not make a rule. why should anyone show you stats? you say you have trouble in understanding exactly what i'm trying to say but seem to understand enough to ask for stats Uh yeah, if you are trying to construct an argument to prove that more than just a handful of workers are educated, you need to provide evidence. That's the basic rules of dialogue.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 3, 2015 0:18:22 GMT -5
<abbr data-timestamp="1446525047000" class="time" title="Nov 2, 2015 23:30:47 GMT -5">Nov 2, 2015 23:30:47 GMT -5</abbr> dmmichgood said: Even though I am not in the "fellowship" any more, I do agree with fixit, -that your statement was an ignorant statement for you to make, simpleton. Do you realize WHY the number of workers who graduated from university before becoming a worker is so extremely tiny?
How long have you been professing, if you ever did? If you had been in as long as I was, -you surely would know that for a long time you were discouraged to get any higher education more that required by law.
Most of the girls & a lot of the boys didn't even go to high school, -let alone University!
I understand your statement. I did not say all workers never went to university. In fact in my last comment I said that it was a vast majority who did not. That is a factual statement. That is not ignorance. I was raised in 2x2ism. My family is 4 generations in it. I have a pretty good idea of the ins and outs. I've been free of it for 25 years. Yes, I know that learning was discouraged. That's horrible, of course. This is just another one of the abusive tactics 2x2ism has imposed on its members. It many ways, it is child abuse to discourage education. But somehow, I made it out of 2x2ism to achieve 3 degrees; including one from an Ivy League school. Determination and defiance of 2x2ism is how I did it. My heart bleeds for all children inside 2x2ism. I know that education is not a high priority for those kids; becoming a tramp preacher is a much more encouraged. This is the statement that you made that I think was not only ignorant but very demeaning to say about workers.
"Workers are not apostles. They are untrained people who didn't even have enough smarts to make it through university."
And you DID NOT qualify THAT statement by saying NOT ALL!
You owe an apology to any & every worker who ever was or is still in the work. That includes my father & my brother.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 0:21:54 GMT -5
So you see if they wear sandals, raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind? What exactly do you look for in the way they live? Sandals... were footwear they use in those days... today I wear sandals in the summer time, and shoes in the winter.
Raised the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind... It was foretold by God that when the Messiah arrived he would perform miracles like unto Moses had to prove to the children of Israel he was sent by God (Acts 3:22-26) Jesus had to perform to prove to the Jews that He was the Messiah, who had been prophesied for thousands of year.
How did Jesus and apostles live in their days.... Itinerant preachers from one place/city to another, no homes of their own... Jesus and most of the apostles were unmarried for the sake of the gospel.Ok, let me get this straight. You are saying that the way to tell if someone has been guided by the Holy Spirit to be an expert in the Scriptures is to see if that person is homeless and perhaps unmarried (but not for sure). That's wonderful news. Thanks for sharing this amazing insight with me. There are lots of homeless people in NYC where I live. I'll go to them in the morning first thing to have them educate me in the Scriptures. It all makes sense now. Jesus, a divine being, came to earth (the only time in human history this has happened) just to tell some folks that all you need to do is be homeless and talk about some things. What things exactly? NathanB hasn't specified. But as long as you see a homeless person, you know Jesus sent him.
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