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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 12:47:33 GMT -5
Matthew 6:14-15 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. They should forgive this ex-worker without him as them forgiveness. 1) Your saying "they"should forgive this man do you mean the church? ~~ Yes, the church the believers in Christ.2) but really isn't it up to the abused people to forgive him not others? For if YOU forgive men their trespasses. That's the actual abused person that needs to forgive first. ~~ Jesus teaches his disciples/been sexually abused to Forgive men their trespasses... The abusers need to repent of their sins before God and making things right with the abusers. Abusers need God to forgive him, the abusers need to be forgiven by the victims. The victims need to forgive the abusers. ALL of us are sinners before God. God has forgiven us of our sins so we need to forgive each others for Christ's sake.3) Again the person who had suffered had to forgive first. If he repents then that's between him and God. But the victims and safety of the children should come first. According to the original post he's convicted and one child is only 5 years old! If that's true then he should not be in the company of children again. I was physically and mentally abused as an adult, and I've forgiven him, but I still wouldn't want to be around him. This happened to children, it must have been horrific for them! As a mother and grandmother I don't understand how it is ok for a convicted pedophile to be near children. I don't understand this train of thought. ~~ We can monitor this ex-worker movement and report to the police when he makes a wrong move toward any child. According to the Law in USA after the pedophile had served his jail sentence he is freely to live a normal life.In other countries/jurisdictions after he has served his jail sentence he is put on a child abuse register and is not allowed among children unsupervised. |
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Post by maryhig on Apr 1, 2015 13:07:16 GMT -5
M Blimey Nathan, I would have to think of the children and abused before the abuser. I'm not saying treat them bad. But no they shouldn't be around children. This is way out of my comfort zone! Nathan one last thing, you say our sins are forgiven and yes when we were when we were in ignorance when committing them and then on finding God they are forgiven! But Jesus said to the woman to be stoned your sins at forgiven go sin no more! This isn't someone in ignorance this is someone who believes in God. He should have known better as he wasn't in ignorance! When knowing God we cannot purposely sin. Then say we're forgiven and saved that's so wrong imo. Only God can forgive and that is between God and the person who has sinned. Because only God can know if they've truly repented we cannot know. No man can forgive sins. Right I'm off to the meeting, I hope I hear something there, I just don't understand all this way of thinking! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 13:08:46 GMT -5
wooooooo, wouldn't such punishment and actions be considered a bit barbaric in a Christian civilised society? That would be on par with some of the punishments meted out in the Muslem communities, like chopping hands off, chopping heads off, stoning to death for insulting the prophet etc. etc. punishments that Christians condemn. Yes of course. Im making a point. I know too many victims. Im sick of the complacancey. People doing nothing. Well I have stated my position on CSA and sexual abuse in general in a few postings on this forum, it should not happen but it does happen and it causes much damage to victims and families and friends. It must end, prevention is better than cure, so urgent measures must be put in place to prevent it happening, and the sooner it is given top priority by those in authority the better and safer it will be for everyone; there is no room for complacency, lives and normal living are at stake. CSA is physically and morally wrong. No adults should be involved in it, least of all servants of God in any religeous organisation. I cannot emphasise that point stronger. |
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Post by fixit on Apr 1, 2015 13:33:56 GMT -5
Someone who was sexually attracted to a five year old and acted upon the urge will be a danger to children for the rest of his life and should never be given the opportunity again.
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Post by Mary on Apr 1, 2015 14:40:09 GMT -5
If the offender has truly repented them he would not put himself in a place where there are children. I know there are children every where but he could make sure that he holds a meeting to tell people of his past so all are aware and all can be protected.
At churches i would think people would tell people about their past.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 16:04:00 GMT -5
If the offender has truly repented them he would not put himself in a place where there are children. I know there are children every where but he could make sure that he holds a meeting to tell people of his past so all are aware and all can be protected. At churches i would think people would tell people about their past. To be quite honest I really can't see that happening any time soon. It would have to be a very strong person to openly confess his/her past including such a misdemeanour to the full church congregation, or even individually to members.that would be asking an awful lot. It would not be anything to boast about, it would be too embarrassing to say the least; that is not a pattern of human behaviour, in my experience. However, having said that, they are some unusual people existing in the world. |
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Post by fixit on Apr 1, 2015 16:06:38 GMT -5
Someone who was sexually attracted to a five year old and acted upon the urge will be a danger to children for the rest of his life and should never be given the opportunity again. It's nothing to do with forgiveness. It's about protecting children. If a dog mauled a little girl and disfigured her for life - would you trust the dog again? It's not about denying the man meeting attendance either - it's about protecting children. That requires an acknowledgement that the man will remain a danger to children for the rest of his life. What if this man attends an overseas convention and molests a child? |
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 1, 2015 16:10:17 GMT -5
Someone who was sexually attracted to a five year old and acted upon the urge will be a danger to children for the rest of his life and should never be given the opportunity again. Yep. Father, brother, cousin, friend, nodding acquaintance. They should never ever again be given the opportunity to re-offend. Now, as far as attending meetings, I would not go that far. Certainly every father, mother and child who comes within striking distance of this individual should be fully informed of what he is capable of, and should be given tools to deal with any of it. I think the reason why 2X2ism does not take this approach is that the very same tools that would ensure the safety of a child, would also equip members with the means to leave the system and to construct a fully satisfying life elsewhere. If decision makers within the system had the faith and the courage to do this, I think they would find that their fellowship would prosper. But, it seems, they are too afraid, and the inexorable march of the demise of the system continues... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 16:18:21 GMT -5
If this happened to your own father, or brother in your family, who had repented from his sin. what you say about them? Should the workers and the friends forbidden him forever from attending the gospel meetings, special meetings, conventions and Sunday fellowship meetings for the rest of his life because there are children in all these meetings. It's nothing to do with forgiveness. It's about protecting children. If a dog mauled a little girl and disfigured her for life - would you trust the dog again? It's not about denying the man meeting attendance either - it's about protecting children. That requires an acknowledgement that the man will remain a danger to children for the rest of his life. What if this man attends an overseas convention and molests a child? Isn't there some mention about the man being physically challenged with a degenerative illness like Parkinson's disease or altzheimers? that would make him an unlikely candidate for overseas visits to conventions, in my estimation. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 16:59:57 GMT -5
Yes, I know but the Law says the pedophile can have a normal life AFTER they had served their time in prison. So, ALL we, the workers and the friends can do is monitoring, watch their movement when they attend the conventions or our 2x2 fellowship meetings and report to the law when they touch or abuse any child again. The next time they will NOT so lucky to get out of prison, they might get a taste of what is like to be a victims themselves. No, they can't have a completely normal life ever again and nor should they. When you commmit an offence like this and serve time for it you forfeit certain rights for as long as you live. The person has a very serious conviction, they remain on a register as a child sex offender which is available for people to access. They cannot participate in any club or group where children participate or access to children is available. Mr Harvey is not allowed to go to fellowship meeting as there would be children there. They need to update authorities about certain information - change of addresses etc. There is a high degree of recidivism with child sex offenders. Yes, I totally agree. The reason for that high degree of recidivism is that the inclination is already there so all that is needed is the opportunity to present itself. They just cannot be trusted among children unsupervised. |
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Post by withlove on Apr 1, 2015 17:29:54 GMT -5
That's great that he isn't allowed in meetings or conventions where children are present! Let's hope he sticks to that and if not he is escorted out.
The victims would have a choice of suffering through seeing him or leaving the meeting or convention...essentially running from him until he dies. Or leaving the system altogether.
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Post by fixit on Apr 1, 2015 17:42:56 GMT -5
It's nothing to do with forgiveness. It's about protecting children. If a dog mauled a little girl and disfigured her for life - would you trust the dog again? It's not about denying the man meeting attendance either - it's about protecting children. That requires an acknowledgement that the man will remain a danger to children for the rest of his life. What if this man attends an overseas convention and molests a child? Isn't there some mention about the man being physically challenged with a degenerative illness like Parkinson's disease or altzheimers? that would make him an unlikely candidate for overseas visits to conventions, in my estimation. Fair point. And if he's a registered sex offender and barred by law from attending meetings where children are present, then that would offer some protection against recidivism. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 17:50:17 GMT -5
Isn't there some mention about the man being physically challenged with a degenerative illness like Parkinson's disease or altzheimers? that would make him an unlikely candidate for overseas visits to conventions, in my estimation. Fair point. And if he's a registered sex offender and barred by law from attending meetings where children are present, then that would offer some protection against recidivism. Precisely. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 1, 2015 18:02:55 GMT -5
He probably should just divorce his wife now and go back into the work... Of course he can't be married in the work so that's the only real solution. Then he'd have the power to lay down all those laws/bans to people that have married outside or whatever other things people to get bans..... the divorced & remarried too. Bert, Beeeeeert, where are you to stick up for your fellow brothers? Oh, and Review? Where have they gone? Come help us all make sense of this idiocy!! Shouldn't this pathetic excuse for a man at the very least have apologized in person and in writing to his victims??? I was wondering the same thing ..... where is Bert  ? Come on Bert surely you have an opinion on this? Or is it a bit too close to home !!!! |
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Post by SharonArnold on Apr 1, 2015 18:11:12 GMT -5
Fair point. And if he's a registered sex offender and barred by law from attending meetings where children are present, then that would offer some protection against recidivism. Precisely. You can bar him from attending meetings. But would it not make a whole lot more sense to inform the parents and the children what this individual has done and what he is capable of? Would it not be a good thing if the parents appropriately supervised their children, whether at fellowship meetings, gospel meetings or convention? Would it not be a good thing for children to know what to do if some creep approached them, no matter what the context? Then, if you believed there was some salvation to be found in attending meetings, no one has the responsibility/accountability of barring this individual from doing precisely that? Empowering people/children to appropriately respond to a situation seems to make a whole lot more sense to me than simply attempting to restrict an offender. If people know how to appropriately respond, that takes care of all sorts of situations where an offender may not yet be known, in addition to ones that are already known. |
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Post by maryhig on Apr 1, 2015 18:27:10 GMT -5
Nathan one last thing, you say our sins are forgiven and yes when we were in ignorance when committing them on finding God they were forgiven! But Jesus said to the woman to be stoned your sins at forgiven go sun no more! This isn't someone in ignorance this is someone who believes in God!
22 And Jesus said unto him, “I say not unto thee, until seven times, but until seventy times seven (490 times a day).
23 “Therefore is the Kingdom of Heaven likened unto a certain king who would settle accounts with his servants.
24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him who owed him ten thousand talents.
25 But inasmuch as he could not pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 The servant therefore fell down and did homage to him, saying, ‘Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.’
27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him and forgave him the debt.
28 But the same servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred pence. And he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what thou owest.’
29 And his fellow servant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.’
30 And he would not, but went and cast him into prison till he should pay the debt.
31 So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32 Then his lord, after he had called him, said unto him, ‘O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me.
33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?’
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother’s trespasses.”
~~ We must forgive the sex offenders like any sin.... But we must keep our ears, eyes, on the alert their movement, report to the police once he touches any child inappropriately. Let the law deals with him.
Nathan if you read that whole post you have written it is all about the person who had been victimised forgiving the sins that were done against them! How can I forgive someone's sins if the sins are not against me. Only the person who has been sinned against can forgive! What I'm trying to say is it doesn't matter if the whole church is ok about him coming back saying he's forgiven. If the people that he has abused are still suffering then he shouldn't be allowed back that needs to be sorted before he's even allowed through the door. Can you imagine how painful that would be? Someone molesting you and then welcomed back into your church? The suffering would be horrific for the children that have gone through that! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 18:53:10 GMT -5
You can bar him from attending meetings. But would it not make a whole lot more sense to inform the parents and the children what this individual has done and what he is capable of? Would it not be a good thing if the parents appropriately supervised their children, whether at fellowship meetings, gospel meetings or convention? Would it not be a good thing for children to know what to do if some creep approached them, no matter what the context? Then, if you believed there was some salvation to be found in attending meetings, no one has the responsibility/accountability of barring this individual from doing precisely that? Empowering people/children to appropriately respond to a situation seems to make a whole lot more sense to me than simply attempting to restrict an offender. If people know how to appropriately respond, that takes care of all sorts of situations where an offender may not yet be known, in addition to ones that are already known. Most definitely that would have to be part of the programme to protect children from such harm. The spead of relevant information.It is the duty of parents and those in charge to look after the welfare of their children, to do so properly they must be aware themselves of all the dangers that threatens their children wherever they are: in schools, on the streets, at church or even at home or around the home; danger comes in many forms and shapes. If one is aware of the dangers they are better prepared to avoid them and deal with them.Yes that is part of the empowement which helps them to also teach their children to recognise danger and to appropriately respond and avoid it by defensive action- fight back,kick and scream the house down if attacked inappropriately and most importantly report it, expose it. Just don't be the "silent lambs" that I have read about in another religeous organisation, the JHW's. Google it on YouTube to see how they have tried to deal with it. www.silentlambs.org |
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Post by emy on Apr 1, 2015 22:48:10 GMT -5
Wise words. I think we all need to read some of the first posts more carefully: 1) In 2003, he faced 19 child sex offences relating to the period 1977 to 1995 Any mention of additional offenses? Twenty years is a long time. 2) Harvey was a minister in a religious sect... during the 1970’s and early 1980’s. He won't be going to overseas conventions as a worker. 3) He was convicted for these child sex offences,... (of) children aged between 5 and 14 years old, and was gaoled. He has served his time. 4) ...while not permitted to attend local sect fellowship meetings (presumably because he is on the child sex offender’s register) ... He's not going to meetings. 5) Fred: According to my sources Mr Harvey is suffering from a degenerative illness ( Parkinson's or Alzheimers) and appears older than 70.  6) ...members and former members are extremely angry that Mr Harvey could be re-instated by the sect ... What does "reinstated" mean? And who said that? And does re-baptism have any bearing on the restrictions he has legally (on a register of offenders)? 7) ...when he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims.... How was this determined? It's true we should consider these words of Jesus: Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. Matt 5:23-24 But before we try to take the mote out of his eye, we need to get the beam out of our own. In other words, does each of US ask forgiveness from someone whom we have offended before we come to worship before God? |
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Post by withlove on Apr 1, 2015 23:43:21 GMT -5
Wise words. I think we all need to read some of the first posts more carefully: 1) In 2003, he faced 19 child sex offences relating to the period 1977 to 1995 Any mention of additional offenses? Twenty years is a long time. 2) Harvey was a minister in a religious sect... during the 1970’s and early 1980’s. He won't be going to overseas conventions as a worker. 3) He was convicted for these child sex offences,... (of) children aged between 5 and 14 years old, and was gaoled. He has served his time. 4) ...while not permitted to attend local sect fellowship meetings (presumably because he is on the child sex offender’s register) ... He's not going to meetings. 5) Fred: According to my sources Mr Harvey is suffering from a degenerative illness ( Parkinson's or Alzheimers) and appears older than 70. 6) ...members and former members are extremely angry that Mr Harvey could be re-instated by the sect ... What does "reinstated" mean? And who said that? And does re-baptism have any bearing on the restrictions he has legally (on a register of offenders)? 7) ...when he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims.... How was this determined? It's true we should consider these words of Jesus: Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. Matt 5:23-24 But before we try to take the mote out of his eye, we need to get the beam out of our own. In other words, does each of US ask forgiveness from someone whom we have offended before we come to worship before God? Thank you for reminding us of the original post. I didn't remember that he was not going to meetings. That's good to know. As to how it was determined that he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims...it would be impossible to prove that, if that is what you're asking for. Unless each victim's life since each incident was recorded in audio and/or video. Re: motes and beams: It is my understanding that Jesus would want people to speak out and take care of situations that are within our power if it is appropriate and necessary. When people's welfare is at risk, that seems to fall under appropriate and necessary. I don't want to neglect my own repenting or protecting others. Sometimes that parable and the incident of the adulteress not being stoned are used to instruct people that we should never accuse anyone. But it isn't an either/or situation. We can and should do both. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 0:25:04 GMT -5
Wise words. I think we all need to read some of the first posts more carefully: 1) In 2003, he faced 19 child sex offences relating to the period 1977 to 1995 Any mention of additional offenses? Twenty years is a long time. 2) Harvey was a minister in a religious sect... during the 1970’s and early 1980’s. He won't be going to overseas conventions as a worker. 3) He was convicted for these child sex offences,... (of) children aged between 5 and 14 years old, and was gaoled. He has served his time. 4) ...while not permitted to attend local sect fellowship meetings (presumably because he is on the child sex offender’s register) ... He's not going to meetings. 5) Fred: According to my sources Mr Harvey is suffering from a degenerative illness ( Parkinson's or Alzheimers) and appears older than 70. 6) ...members and former members are extremely angry that Mr Harvey could be re-instated by the sect ... What does "reinstated" mean? And who said that? And does re-baptism have any bearing on the restrictions he has legally (on a register of offenders)? 7) ...when he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims.... How was this determined? It's true we should consider these words of Jesus: Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. Matt 5:23-24 But before we try to take the mote out of his eye, we need to get the beam out of our own. In other words, does each of US ask forgiveness from someone whom we have offended before we come to worship before God? the words of Jesus are easily forgotten that's why He will say I know you not |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 0:27:45 GMT -5
Wise words. I think we all need to read some of the first posts more carefully: 1) In 2003, he faced 19 child sex offences relating to the period 1977 to 1995 Any mention of additional offenses? Twenty years is a long time. 2) Harvey was a minister in a religious sect... during the 1970’s and early 1980’s. He won't be going to overseas conventions as a worker. 3) He was convicted for these child sex offences,... (of) children aged between 5 and 14 years old, and was gaoled. He has served his time. 4) ...while not permitted to attend local sect fellowship meetings (presumably because he is on the child sex offender’s register) ... He's not going to meetings. 5) Fred: According to my sources Mr Harvey is suffering from a degenerative illness ( Parkinson's or Alzheimers) and appears older than 70. 6) ...members and former members are extremely angry that Mr Harvey could be re-instated by the sect ... What does "reinstated" mean? And who said that? And does re-baptism have any bearing on the restrictions he has legally (on a register of offenders)? 7) ...when he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims.... How was this determined? It's true we should consider these words of Jesus: Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. Matt 5:23-24 But before we try to take the mote out of his eye, we need to get the beam out of our own. In other words, does each of US ask forgiveness from someone whom we have offended before we come to worship before God? Thank you for reminding us of the original post. I didn't remember that he was not going to meetings. That's good to know. As to how it was determined that he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims...it would be impossible to prove that, if that is what you're asking for. Unless each victim's life since each incident was recorded in audio and/or video. Re: motes and beams: It is my understanding that Jesus would want people to speak out and take care of situations that are within our power if it is appropriate and necessary. When people's welfare is at risk, that seems to fall under appropriate and necessary. I don't want to neglect my own repenting or protecting others. Sometimes that parable and the incident of the adulteress not being stoned are used to instruct people that we should never accuse anyone. But it isn't an either/or situation. We can and should do both. my understanding is that Jesus wants us to take these things to the Father, but then again we would have to have faith and trust to do that |
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Post by withlove on Apr 2, 2015 1:06:02 GMT -5
Thank you for reminding us of the original post. I didn't remember that he was not going to meetings. That's good to know. As to how it was determined that he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims...it would be impossible to prove that, if that is what you're asking for. Unless each victim's life since each incident was recorded in audio and/or video. Re: motes and beams: It is my understanding that Jesus would want people to speak out and take care of situations that are within our power if it is appropriate and necessary. When people's welfare is at risk, that seems to fall under appropriate and necessary. I don't want to neglect my own repenting or protecting others. Sometimes that parable and the incident of the adulteress not being stoned are used to instruct people that we should never accuse anyone. But it isn't an either/or situation. We can and should do both. my understanding is that Jesus wants us to take these things to the Father, but then again we would have to have faith and trust to do that Prayer is rarely a bad idea, although there are often times when we act in the moment and the Spirit is with us, along with our foundation of values. Faith and trust are also helpful when taking a stand...knowing that the Father will be present, despite whatever opposition we encounter. And courage and grace and humility and the willingness to let prayer empower us to do what needs to be done. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 1:33:20 GMT -5
my understanding is that Jesus wants us to take these things to the Father, but then again we would have to have faith and trust to do that Prayer is rarely a bad idea, although there are often times when we act in the moment and the Spirit is with us, along with our foundation of values. Faith and trust are also helpful when taking a stand...knowing that the Father will be present, despite whatever opposition we encounter. And courage and grace and humility and the willingness to let prayer empower us to do what needs to be done. that will only have power if it is within the will of God |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 2, 2015 5:24:40 GMT -5
Thank you for reminding us of the original post. I didn't remember that he was not going to meetings. That's good to know. As to how it was determined that he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims...it would be impossible to prove that, if that is what you're asking for. Unless each victim's life since each incident was recorded in audio and/or video. Re: motes and beams: It is my understanding that Jesus would want people to speak out and take care of situations that are within our power if it is appropriate and necessary. When people's welfare is at risk, that seems to fall under appropriate and necessary. I don't want to neglect my own repenting or protecting others. Sometimes that parable and the incident of the adulteress not being stoned are used to instruct people that we should never accuse anyone. But it isn't an either/or situation. We can and should do both. my understanding is that Jesus wants us to take these things to the Father, but then again we would have to have faith and trust to do that This should have been taken to the Police in the 70's when it was known by the Head Workers of NSW what Mr Harvey was doing. Here we are in 2015 and people still think that this should be taken to Jesus ! He broke the Law, done his time but has not apologized to his victims, now has been re-baptised ! So what would the view be if some of the victims wanted to be re-baptised ! |
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Post by Roselyn T on Apr 2, 2015 5:27:09 GMT -5
Wise words. I think we all need to read some of the first posts more carefully: 1) In 2003, he faced 19 child sex offences relating to the period 1977 to 1995 Any mention of additional offenses? Twenty years is a long time. 2) Harvey was a minister in a religious sect... during the 1970’s and early 1980’s. He won't be going to overseas conventions as a worker. 3) He was convicted for these child sex offences,... (of) children aged between 5 and 14 years old, and was gaoled. He has served his time. 4) ...while not permitted to attend local sect fellowship meetings (presumably because he is on the child sex offender’s register) ... He's not going to meetings. 5) Fred: According to my sources Mr Harvey is suffering from a degenerative illness ( Parkinson's or Alzheimers) and appears older than 70. 6) ...members and former members are extremely angry that Mr Harvey could be re-instated by the sect ... What does "reinstated" mean? And who said that? And does re-baptism have any bearing on the restrictions he has legally (on a register of offenders)? 7) ...when he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims.... How was this determined? It's true we should consider these words of Jesus: Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. Matt 5:23-24 But before we try to take the mote out of his eye, we need to get the beam out of our own. In other words, does each of US ask forgiveness from someone whom we have offended before we come to worship before God? 7) This was determined by asking the victims !!! |
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 2, 2015 8:13:23 GMT -5
The part on Acts 19 "When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." This was the verse the workers used to explain you may now give your testimony in meeting since you are now baptized by us. Also used as the reason I needed to be rebaptized was the worldly preachers were not sent by God and so they did not have the holy spirt like you read there. PS: I never did speak in tounges and the worker skipped over that explanation. So people in your part of the world can't even speak in mtgs until after they are baptized? WOW! In most or all of America those who have professed can speak in mtg, but cannot take communion until after baptism. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 2, 2015 8:37:07 GMT -5
It may have been posted above but if so, I missed it...what are the current restrictions are in NSW relative to convicted offenders?
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Post by mdm on Apr 2, 2015 9:01:33 GMT -5
Thank you for reminding us of the original post. I didn't remember that he was not going to meetings. That's good to know. As to how it was determined that he has not expressed complete remorse to all his victims...it would be impossible to prove that, if that is what you're asking for. Unless each victim's life since each incident was recorded in audio and/or video. Re: motes and beams: It is my understanding that Jesus would want people to speak out and take care of situations that are within our power if it is appropriate and necessary. When people's welfare is at risk, that seems to fall under appropriate and necessary. I don't want to neglect my own repenting or protecting others. Sometimes that parable and the incident of the adulteress not being stoned are used to instruct people that we should never accuse anyone. But it isn't an either/or situation. We can and should do both. my understanding is that Jesus wants us to take these things to the Father, but then again we would have to have faith and trust to do that I understand that it is the teaching of the workers that we shouldn't try to correct wrongs in the church but only pray about them. But that is not the teaching of the Bible. |
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