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Post by howitis on Jul 17, 2015 1:35:06 GMT -5
Love it, love it, love it.....thankyou!!! And how do you know they are stronger? Do they get up and tell you? No. The Spirit reveals it to you! Marvelous what the Spirit can do when we submit and have our eyes on Jesus, not picking the eyes out of someone else. Beautiful, thankyou again!
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Post by maryhig on Jul 17, 2015 2:14:08 GMT -5
Love it, love it, love it.....thankyou!!! And how do you know they are stronger? Do they get up and tell you? No. The Spirit reveals it to you! Marvelous what the Spirit can do when we submit and have our eyes on Jesus, not picking the eyes out of someone else. Beautiful, thankyou again! Yes it's through the spirit in the heart, it's not the persons fleshly judgement. We have to listen to the righteous judge and that's God, within our own heart and through others. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 17, 2015 3:31:22 GMT -5
Love it, love it, love it.....thankyou!!! And how do you know they are stronger? Do they get up and tell you? No. The Spirit reveals it to you! Marvelous what the Spirit can do when we submit and have our eyes on Jesus, not picking the eyes out of someone else. Beautiful, thankyou again! So I wonder what spirit Noel Harvey showed ? Preaching the Gospel, then abusing girls after ? |
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Post by snow on Jul 17, 2015 11:45:57 GMT -5
I think what so often disregarded in CSA issues is that the character of the predator is not just black and white. No one is entirely 'bad' and so there can be good aspects to the person. I think what happens when we judge these people is that when the 'bad' overwhelms the good we always tend to think the person is all bad. They truly could be very remorseful but also very weak. Or, they could not be remorseful, but truly helpful and good in other ways. Obviously if they aren't in control of their behavior they need to be stopped, but we also need to remember we all have things we just don't seem to be able to control about ourselves. It's when those traits or behaviors put others in danger that we need to do something to protect and remove. I think that we need to separate the two 'needs' to some degree. They are still fellow human beings that struggle. In the case of this ex worker that has done jail time for CSA, as long as he is kept away from children I don't see why he can't request being baptized if that's what he feels he needs. Just because he has offended in a particularly nasty way doesn't mean he doesn't still struggle with his relationship with his version of God. And, he still will want to try and make things right between him and God in ways he thinks might help. It doesn't hurt anyone if it was done in private, away from children and he is not allowed contact with children, does it? Denying him/her that doesn't seem to benefit anyone imo. As so many people here seem to think, it's between him and his God. God can decide if he accepts it, right?
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Post by faune on Jul 17, 2015 17:33:43 GMT -5
I think what so often disregarded in CSA issues is that the character of the predator is not just black and white. No one is entirely 'bad' and so there can be good aspects to the person. I think what happens when we judge these people is that when the 'bad' overwhelms the good we always tend to think the person is all bad. They truly could be very remorseful but also very weak. Or, they could not be remorseful, but truly helpful and good in other ways. Obviously if they aren't in control of their behavior they need to be stopped, but we also need to remember we all have things we just don't seem to be able to control about ourselves. It's when those traits or behaviors put others in danger that we need to do something to protect and remove. I think that we need to separate the two 'needs' to some degree. They are still fellow human beings that struggle. In the case of this ex worker that has done jail time for CSA, as long as he is kept away from children I don't see why he can't request being baptized if that's what he feels he needs. Just because he has offended in a particularly nasty way doesn't mean he doesn't still struggle with his relationship with his version of God. And, he still will want to try and make things right between him and God in ways he thinks might help. It doesn't hurt anyone if it was done in private, away from children and he is not allowed contact with children, does it? Denying him/her that doesn't seem to benefit anyone imo. As so many people here seem to think, it's between him and his God. God can decide if he accepts it, right?Snow ~ As long as the person shows remorse and a desire to repent and be accepted by God, I have no problem with their request within set guidelines to insure the protection of children. However, welcoming a child molester back into the fold as if nothing happened to break one's trust would be another issue entirely.  Personally, I tend to feel that workers who violates a parents trust should be put out of the work for CSA, as such behavior is appalling for any minister. It's also a civil offense that needs to be reported to authorities when such criminal behavior occurs.
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Post by snow on Jul 17, 2015 18:07:14 GMT -5
I think what so often disregarded in CSA issues is that the character of the predator is not just black and white. No one is entirely 'bad' and so there can be good aspects to the person. I think what happens when we judge these people is that when the 'bad' overwhelms the good we always tend to think the person is all bad. They truly could be very remorseful but also very weak. Or, they could not be remorseful, but truly helpful and good in other ways. Obviously if they aren't in control of their behavior they need to be stopped, but we also need to remember we all have things we just don't seem to be able to control about ourselves. It's when those traits or behaviors put others in danger that we need to do something to protect and remove. I think that we need to separate the two 'needs' to some degree. They are still fellow human beings that struggle. In the case of this ex worker that has done jail time for CSA, as long as he is kept away from children I don't see why he can't request being baptized if that's what he feels he needs. Just because he has offended in a particularly nasty way doesn't mean he doesn't still struggle with his relationship with his version of God. And, he still will want to try and make things right between him and God in ways he thinks might help. It doesn't hurt anyone if it was done in private, away from children and he is not allowed contact with children, does it? Denying him/her that doesn't seem to benefit anyone imo. As so many people here seem to think, it's between him and his God. God can decide if he accepts it, right?Snow ~ As long as the person shows remorse and a desire to repent and be accepted by God, I have no problem with their request within set guidelines to insure the protection of children. However, welcoming a child molester back into the fold as if nothing happened to break one's trust would be another issue entirely. Personally, I tend to feel that workers who violates a parents trust should be put out of the work for CSA, as such behavior is appalling for any minister. It's also a civil offense that needs to be reported to authorities when such criminal behavior occurs.
I would never advocate allowing anything that didn't put the needs of the children first. I just don't see how baptizing a man in private hurts anyone as long as the needs of his victims are honored. |
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Post by faune on Jul 17, 2015 19:32:29 GMT -5
Snow ~ As long as the person shows remorse and a desire to repent and be accepted by God, I have no problem with their request within set guidelines to insure the protection of children. However, welcoming a child molester back into the fold as if nothing happened to break one's trust would be another issue entirely. Personally, I tend to feel that workers who violates a parents trust should be put out of the work for CSA, as such behavior is appalling for any minister. It's also a civil offense that needs to be reported to authorities when such criminal behavior occurs.
I would never advocate allowing anything that didn't put the needs of the children first. I just don't see how baptizing a man in private hurts anyone as long as the needs of his victims are honored. Snow ~ I would see no problem with it either as long as he's kept away from children after so many repeat offenses. However, I was given the impression he was being welcomed back into the 2x2's by this act of rebaptism, which really bothered me considering it has been stated here he has not tried to right his wrongs with all the victims. Personally, it reminded me of an overseer, Ira Hobbs, who had a number of sexual offenses to his credit; however, was never prosecuted due to the Statue of Limitations and 2x2 practice of covering up the crimes and moving the offender to another unsuspecting area. This type of behavior of cover-up of CSA by leadership over past years is another area where integrity and truthfulness were seriously missing in order to maintain the "Perfect Image" of the Way.
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Post by howitis on Jul 18, 2015 6:15:11 GMT -5
I apologise that in my post I wrote about asking forgiveness, I also wrote much about 'sorry statements', whether they are in person or written I stressed that often they are meaningless. As a victim Ross I do NOT want to receive an apology from these men (I guess if it comes to that God will grant me the grace to accept such), however at thus point I don't want any contact with them for me or my family!! Should other victims feel an apology would help heal their pain, I hope they receive one speedily.
If you have no contact with this man, no issue with him being rebaptised, say openly that his faith is between him and God, surely you believe so is the victims, why then are you persuing.....you are NOT a voice for CSA victims, you are attempting to be a voice against CSA within a church you once went to. Not once have you mentioned the 4 children, devastated at a very young age when their father suddenly died, who were 'counselled' by an Anglican minister, who actually sexually abused them, not one, but 4 and then raped the mother when she approached him!!
Seems to me Ross you were discontent with your church, fine, move on, remember the seed of discontent will never flourish in a thankful heart.....if you're thankful with what you have now, share your contentedness with others, go down to a railway station pick up the dirtiest homeless person you can find, take him t a clothing store, where you shop at, buy him some clothes then take him home feed him, let him use your bathroom, give him a bed and a home for as long as he needs.......true thankfulness in action is a wonderful thing. Saw some young children in school holidays who had been tripping around Sydney for a day with their parents, empty their back packs of chips, muesli bars etc and give them to homeless people at a railway station, it was a lovely sight, made myself known to their mum, were they church goers? No, just some little children grateful they had so much and wanted to share.
Take care all remember to be kind and share your good fortune and thankfulness with others, time spent doing this has a far greater reward than trying to right the wrongs of others that we know so little about........one day I may even disclose (with that persons permission) who I took into my home.
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Post by Mary on Jul 18, 2015 7:04:16 GMT -5
This board is about the 2x2s not the Anglcan Church. Who knows, Ross may even speak out against issues in his or other churches.
These boards were originally set up to discuss issues about the 2x2s, for want if a better name, of which a large number, in fact nearly all were people who had left meetings. Now it gets suggested at times that we don't get concerned about things from our former church or come here to post.
I feel at times professing people would sooner see us leave. If they want to join in then that's great but don't suggest people like Ross don't concern himself with issues for which the board was set up.
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Post by snow on Jul 18, 2015 11:59:59 GMT -5
I would never advocate allowing anything that didn't put the needs of the children first. I just don't see how baptizing a man in private hurts anyone as long as the needs of his victims are honored. Snow ~ I would see no problem with it either as long as he's kept away from children after so many repeat offenses. However, I was given the impression he was being welcomed back into the 2x2's by this act of rebaptism, which really bothered me considering it has been stated here he has not tried to right his wrongs with all the victims. Personally, it reminded me of an overseer, Ira Hobbs, who had a number of sexual offenses to his credit; however, was never prosecuted due to the Statue of Limitations and 2x2 practice of covering up the crimes and moving the offender to another unsuspecting area. This type of behavior of cover-up of CSA by leadership over past years is another area where integrity and truthfulness were seriously missing to order to maintain the "Perfect Image" of the Way.
Being re-baptized into the group doesn't mean he will be around children. He likely has secular conditions that say he can't be. I am only responding to the re-baptism. Don't see a problem with that as long as children aren't put at further risk. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 18, 2015 12:41:26 GMT -5
Reminds me of Parker who wrote the Secret Sect book. I understand he offered for the work at one stage, got upset about something and later became an Anglican Minister and wrote his book.
Parker had indeed offered for the work & been accepted. He had sold his businesses when he decided to take a little trip to visit his family before leaving for the work.
He was explaining to someone what the The Way was when that person responded by saying, "Oh yes, the Cooneyites!"
Having never heard that word, he asked John Hardie, the overseer if they were ever called the Cooneyites.
Hardie suddenly became so angry that Parker thought something seemed strange.
He wanted to take his parents for a visit with their relatives in Ireland before going into the work.
In Ireland he had nothing to go on to search except the name "Cooneyites."
In Enniskillen he found a newspaper, the Impartial Reporter. He searched through old volumes of the newspaper when suddenly names he had known in Australia started to pop up; William Carroll & George Walker.
Parker said that he was so overwhelmed, he just sat there & wept.
He had believed that this religious movement, which he had thought went back to Christ, actually had it's beginning at the turn of the century.
I have tried to summarize his story very briefly.
You can read it at TLC in the exit stories.
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Post by Mary on Jul 18, 2015 16:05:52 GMT -5
Parker didn't just want to go on a trip before going into the work. He was going to go into the work and was talking to a man (minister I think it may have been) who said you were started in Ireland. Doug did not believe it being brought up like most of us were to believe it went back to the Sea of Galilee, decided to go to Ireland and have a look for himself. He found about the beginnings there.
I remember hearing it preached at convention about a man who wanted to be a worker but wanted a trip first. When I heard Doug's story it clicked. He didn't want a trip, he wanted the truth. Yea and the other worker got angry.
Thank God for Doug. He corrected the wrong. He wrote the Secret Sect and exposed the myth that the group was started by Jesus. Instead of being thanked for his honesty, he was persecuted by the workers who spoke bad of him for daring to seek the truth.
God had a ministry for him but it wasn't being a worker. Another reason I guess the workers don't like Anglicans. Ross cops it for attending a branch of the Anglicans. Like any Christians great people who love God.
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Post by faune on Jul 18, 2015 21:13:54 GMT -5
Good post howitis. Ross will likely respond now and state that he isn't anglican he is anglican evangelical....if past record is anything to go by. He will have no more to say or comment about the Minister you refer to. Ross's 'calling' is to have a crack about anyone or anything to do with his ex church. As far as any other church or or it's members it's a case of dismissing or minimizing anything that is posted...Well that has been his strategy to date anyway. An interesting thing. We know people who have been disillusioned,sad and empty in life; they find Christ and 'the night becomes a new day' for them. Do they maintain a 'sniper campaign' against the old church they left? Of course not!, the emptiness of that fades from their mind and their life because their mind, heart and life is taken up with the new. They don't retain or dwell any longer on that which disappointed them previously. Sure they'll tell you about it, what they left and what they have found. But do they maintain daily sniper shots\posts 15 years, others 20 or 30 years after they left the old? NEVER! Reminds me of Parker who wrote the Secret Sect book. I understand he offered for the work at one stage, got upset about something and later became an Anglican Minister and wrote his book. At the time his book came out fellow Anglican Ministers told him "Leave those people alone, they are good people". howisit;You haven't been posting here long, but you have quickly come to understand the mind and motive of some posters. Review005 ~ Your post reminded me of an article I read today as to the reason for friends and workers leaving the 2x2's and the responses from the F&W's in return. If you are really interested in finding out why people grow tired and dissatisfied with the 2x2's, you might check this article out for yourself?
Perhaps Bert can add it to his collection of lists regarding ex-members, too?
www.thelyingtruth.info/?f=rsc&id=reasons
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Post by faune on Jul 18, 2015 21:23:03 GMT -5
What is the source of those words leave those people alone, they are good people? The same rumor that was preached that he wanted to go on a trip first? Which was not what he wanted. He wanted the truth. It would have been better and honest if the overseer had acknowledged that what Doug was told was true rather than getting angry. ~ It sounds like another one of those made-up stories that workers tell at convention which gets repeated over and over again by different ones to make a point. However, there's usually little truth behind it ~ just a fashionable yarn to booster the workers' egos and dismiss those who have left the fold, regardless how long ago.  Perhaps a better question to ask is why the majority of those who leave the 2x2's never return again and even go as far as to leave their stories on line for others to beware of similar treatment?  Honestly, very few churches actually produce such a response in people who leave and they are not offended when these folks find another church more to their liking. They are not considered "lost and on their way to Hell" either for leaving. In fact, since I left the 2x2's, I have attended a few different churches and would have no problem going back and visiting any of them. I would be treated no differently and feel warmly welcomed due to my shared Christian beliefs. However, we all know that would not be the case with the 2x2's and there would be a number of hoops to jump through to be re-admitted to their "social club" after once leaving. thelibertyconnection.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113&Itemid=26 Why We Left? |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 19, 2015 1:37:59 GMT -5
Parker didn't just want to go on a trip before going into the work. He was going to go into the work and was talking to a man (minister I think it may have been) who said you were started in Ireland. Doug did not believe it being brought up like most of us were to believe it went back to the Sea of Galilee, decided to go to Ireland and have a look for himself. He found about the beginnings there. I remember hearing it preached at convention about a man who wanted to be a worker but wanted a trip first. When I heard Doug's story it clicked. He didn't want a trip, he wanted the truth. Yea and the other worker got angry. Thank God for Doug. He corrected the wrong. He wrote the Secret Sect and exposed the myth that the group was started by Jesus. Instead of being thanked for his honesty, he was persecuted by the workers who spoke bad of him for daring to seek the truth. God had a ministry for him but it wasn't being a worker. Another reason I guess the workers don't like Anglicans. Ross cops it for attending a branch of the Anglicans. Like any Christians great people who love God. Parker didn't just want to go on a trip before going into the work. He was going to go into the work and was talking to a man (minister I think it may have been) who said you were started in Ireland. Doug did not believe it being brought up like most of us were to believe it went back to the Sea of Galilee, decided to go to Ireland and have a look for himself. He found about the beginnings there. I remember hearing it preached at convention about a man who wanted to be a worker but wanted a trip first. When I heard Doug's story it clicked. He didn't want a trip, he wanted the truth. Yea and the other worker got angry. Thank God for Doug. He corrected the wrong. He wrote the Secret Sect and exposed the myth that the group was started by Jesus. Instead of being thanked for his honesty, he was persecuted by the workers who spoke bad of him for daring to seek the truth. God had a ministry for him but it wasn't being a worker. Another reason I guess the workers don't like Anglicans. Ross cops it for attending a branch of the Anglicans. Like any Christians great people who love God. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 19, 2015 2:52:24 GMT -5
Good post howitis. Ross will likely respond now and state that he isn't anglican he is anglican evangelical....if past record is anything to go by. He will have no more to say or comment about the Minister you refer to. Ross's 'calling' is to have a crack about anyone or anything to do with his ex church. As far as any other church or or it's members it's a case of dismissing or minimizing anything that is posted...Well that has been his strategy to date anyway. An interesting thing. We know people who have been disillusioned,sad and empty in life; they find Christ and 'the night becomes a new day' for them. Do they maintain a 'sniper campaign' against the old church they left? Of course not!, the emptiness of that fades from their mind and their life because their mind, heart and life is taken up with the new. They don't retain or dwell any longer on that which disappointed them previously. Sure they'll tell you about it, what they left and what they have found. But do they maintain daily sniper shots\posts 15 years, others 20 or 30 years after they left the old? NEVER! Reminds me of Parker who wrote the Secret Sect book. I understand he offered for the work at one stage, got upset about something and later became an Anglican Minister and wrote his book. At the time his book came out fellow Anglican Ministers told him "Leave those people alone, they are good people". howisit;You haven't been posting here long, but you have quickly come to understand the mind and motive of some posters. Yes howitis, after awhile you will see the mind and motive of some posters here, a good example would be Review (A worker) accusing me of not reporting seeing my mother being abused ( I was 4 years old ) just have a look on the Domestic Violence thread. His main concern was that I (might) blame the F&W, when I clearly stated that was not the case ! |
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Post by faune on Jul 19, 2015 9:27:34 GMT -5
Yes howitis, after awhile you will see the mind and motive of some posters here, a good example would be Review (A worker) accusing me of not reporting seeing my mother being abused ( I was 4 years old ) just have a look on the Domestic Violence thread. His main concern was that I (might) blame the F&W, when I clearly stated that was not the case ! Yes, Ros - Review005 (a worker) made the following post about your situation: "What I find despicable is the evidence I see of her (ie Roselyn) once again seeking to find fault in workers in the matter of her family domestic violence.." (my bolded emphasis added) Of course you said nothing like this as many have pointed out. ~ I wonder if "workers' training" doesn't contribute to their ability to re-define the issues in their favor? After all, isn't that the purpose of the older worker to show the younger one how to weasel out of touchy situations and put the blame back on the member? Perhaps that's why so many members are afraid to speak up over abuse issues due to the "boomerang effect" they tend to experience when they attempt to get clarity from some workers? Some senior workers surely know how to "twist" things around in their favor as these cute cat pictures suggests. www.thelyingtruth.info/?f=rsc&id=ihas&pic=85 www.thelyingtruth.info/?f=rsc&id=ihas&pic=81www.thelyingtruth.info/?f=rsc&id=ihas&pic=80 |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 19, 2015 15:01:22 GMT -5
Completely correct Dmmg - Doug Parker was a lovely man and spent his life trying to help others. Doug discovered the truth that John Hardie obviously wanted to hide.
What did I say about Doug Parker that was "completely wrong?"
Point out even one statement about Doug Parker that I posted as being wrong!"
I was using his own words in his own testimony, which I have on tape from a testimony he gave at the home of Fred & Corrine Kamp in Bellview Washington. (and is IN PRINT on the TLC site for anyone to read)
I certainly said nothing inaccurate about him.
In fact, I consider him to be a hero of sorts for his careful research of the book Secret Sect.
I found his statement that he was "so overwhelmed, he just sat there & wept," to be very touching.
For someone who had believed so deeply that the 2x2's went all the way back to Jesus to the point that they has sold their businesses in order to go out to preach that way, & to find that was a deception must have been even a worse blow than for some of the rest of us!
NOW YOU, ROSS, PLEASE STATE HERE WHERE I WAS SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT DOUG PARKER!
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Post by snow on Jul 19, 2015 15:29:40 GMT -5
Completely correct Dmmg - Doug Parker was a lovely man and spent his life trying to help others. Doug discovered the truth that John Hardie obviously wanted to hide.
What did I say about Doug Parker that was "completely wrong?"
Point out even one statement about Doug Parker that I posted as being wrong!"
I was using his own words in his own testimony, which I have on tape from a testimony he gave at the home of Fred & Corrine Kamp in Bellview Washington. (and is IN PRINT on the TLC site for anyone to read)
I certainly said nothing inaccurate about him.
In fact, I consider him to be a hero of sorts for his careful research of the book Secret Sect.
I found his statement that he was "so overwhelmed, he just sat there & wept," to be very touching.
For someone who had believed so deeply that the 2x2's went all the way back to Jesus to the point that they has sold their businesses in order to go out to preach that way, & to find that was a deception must have been even a worse blow than for some of the rest of us!
NOW YOU, ROSS, PLEASE STATE HERE WHERE I WAS SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT DOUG PARKER!
I read that differently dmg. I think he was saying you were completely right. He used the word correct but I took it to mean he agreed with you? |
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Jul 19, 2015 16:04:36 GMT -5
Good grief, Ross!
What did I say about Doug Parker that was "completely wrong?"
Point out even one statement about Doug Parker that I posted as being wrong!"
I was using his own words in his own testimony, which I have on tape from a testimony he gave at the home of Fred & Corrine Kamp in Bellview Washington. (and is IN PRINT on the TLC site for anyone to read)
I certainly said nothing inaccurate about him.
In fact, I consider him to be a hero of sorts for his careful research of the book Secret Sect.
I found his statement that he was "so overwhelmed, he just sat there & wept," to be very touching.
For someone who had believed so deeply that the 2x2's went all the way back to Jesus to the point that they has sold their businesses in order to go out to preach that way, & to find that was a deception must have been even a worse blow than for some of the rest of us!
NOW YOU, ROSS, PLEASE STATE HERE WHERE I WAS SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT DOUG PARKER!
I read that differently dmg. I think he was saying you were completely right. He used the word correct but I took it to mean he agreed with you? I thought Ross was agreeing with dmg also, so I'm confused about the "completely wrong" comment. |
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 19, 2015 17:09:06 GMT -5
Completely correct Dmmg - Doug Parker was a lovely man and spent his life trying to help others. Doug discovered the truth that John Hardie obviously wanted to hide.
What did I say about Doug Parker that was "completely wrong?"
Point out even one statement about Doug Parker that I posted as being wrong!"
I was using his own words in his own testimony, which I have on tape from a testimony he gave at the home of Fred & Corrine Kamp in Bellview Washington. (and is IN PRINT on the TLC site for anyone to read)
I certainly said nothing inaccurate about him.
In fact, I consider him to be a hero of sorts for his careful research of the book Secret Sect.
I found his statement that he was "so overwhelmed, he just sat there & wept," to be very touching.
For someone who had believed so deeply that the 2x2's went all the way back to Jesus to the point that they has sold their businesses in order to go out to preach that way, & to find that was a deception must have been even a worse blow than for some of the rest of us!
NOW YOU, ROSS, PLEASE STATE HERE WHERE I WAS SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT DOUG PARKER!
Are you not used to Ross agreeing with you DMG?  |
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Jul 19, 2015 18:45:26 GMT -5
dmg, read too fast so she arrived a wrong conclusion on Ross's post. I do that sometimes when I am in a hurry, reading the article too fast, and without thinking and I got a different message from what the poster's meant. Haven't we all done that!  |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 19, 2015 23:24:40 GMT -5
Good grief, Ross!
What did I say about Doug Parker that was "completely wrong?"
Point out even one statement about Doug Parker that I posted as being wrong!"
I was using his own words in his own testimony, which I have on tape from a testimony he gave at the home of Fred & Corrine Kamp in Bellview Washington. (and is IN PRINT on the TLC site for anyone to read)
I certainly said nothing inaccurate about him.
In fact, I consider him to be a hero of sorts for his careful research of the book Secret Sect.
I found his statement that he was "so overwhelmed, he just sat there & wept," to be very touching.
For someone who had believed so deeply that the 2x2's went all the way back to Jesus to the point that they has sold their businesses in order to go out to preach that way, & to find that was a deception must have been even a worse blow than for some of the rest of us!
NOW YOU, ROSS, PLEASE STATE HERE WHERE I WAS SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT DOUG PARKER!
Are y ou not used to Ross agreeing with you DMG? 
Whyisitso, -I think you have that right!
I am just not used to Ross agreeing with me!
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Post by howitis on Jul 20, 2015 13:24:07 GMT -5
Mary,
Pardon me from stopping by on the 'exes' board, but somehow that's not how I read the home page.
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Post by howitis on Jul 20, 2015 13:40:10 GMT -5
Ross,
Had no idea you were involved as an Anglican, thought you'd become a Baptist, I was just stating a fact about an Anglican minister I knew. As for Review attacking online, it is probably better than the 'attacks' that poor family endured after that fellows preaching!! CSA is a societal problem not a church one and if you care to track down someone who helped put submissions together for the Australian Royal Commission they will tell you some interesting facts.....
1) its a pity it was given the guidelines of 'institutional' as its more prevalent than people realise.Church abuse is only a very small part of the problem
2) most of what is coming out are 'aged' or 'historic' crimes as younger people when asked refused to give details.
3) there is an awareness that the Commission, Sorry Statements and even financial compensation will never be able to really help the victims.
As for therailway station, probably not, I mentioned it merely because I know how in Australia homeless men are undercatered for and cannot receive any welfare, offeredyou help out as a suggestion just thought it may be more worthwhile and calming to your troubled spirit.
As for Doug Parker I have a few questions, but I'll pop them over onto that thread as a little food for thought.
Review, not really sure who you are, but I hope you enjoy your convention round.
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Post by fred on Jul 20, 2015 18:05:43 GMT -5
Statements like this merely seek to minimise the churches' responsibility.
Having listened to many of the complainants submissions I did not get this sense at all. In quite a few cases they were not listened to.
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Post by faune on Jul 20, 2015 18:10:30 GMT -5
Good grief, Ross!
What did I say about Doug Parker that was "completely wrong?"
Point out even one statement about Doug Parker that I posted as being wrong!"
I was using his own words in his own testimony, which I have on tape from a testimony he gave at the home of Fred & Corrine Kamp in Bellview Washington. (and is IN PRINT on the TLC site for anyone to read)
I certainly said nothing inaccurate about him.
In fact, I consider him to be a hero of sorts for his careful research of the book Secret Sect.
I found his statement that he was "so overwhelmed, he just sat there & wept," to be very touching.
For someone who had believed so deeply that the 2x2's went all the way back to Jesus to the point that they has sold their businesses in order to go out to preach that way, & to find that was a deception must have been even a worse blow than for some of the rest of us!
NOW YOU, ROSS, PLEASE STATE HERE WHERE I WAS SO COMPLETELY WRONG ABOUT DOUG PARKER!
I read that differently dmg. I think he was saying you were completely right. He used the word correct but I took it to mean he agreed with you? ~ I also read it differently along with Snow. Ross was agreeing with you and you called him out for it.  |
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Post by howitis on Jul 20, 2015 18:55:31 GMT -5
Fred, Ask someone who was involved in compiling the submissions, sit with them in their debriefings, listen to their frustrations. Then take for instance one of the latest cases on the NSW coast, 'Catholic priest.......jailed for 'historic' sexual offenses. Those putting the submissions together certainly listened, but often crimes were deemed 'singular' not institutional and often younger people made contact, but would never make a full claim.......and yes my information is correct I am extremely close to one of those helping compile those submissions. No I'm not taking away or lessening churches impact as far as CSA, I am a victim....I do know though its a societal problem not an institutional one.......this is only part of the ice berg!!
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Personally, I tend to feel that workers who violates a parents trust should be put out of the work for CSA, as such behavior is appalling for any minister. It's also a civil offense that needs to be reported to authorities when such criminal behavior occurs. 
Honestly, very few churches actually produce such a response in people who leave and they are not offended when these folks find another church more to their liking. They are not considered "lost and on their way to Hell" either for leaving. In fact, since I left the 2x2's, I have attended a few different churches and would have no problem going back and visiting any of them. I would be treated no differently and feel warmly welcomed due to my shared Christian beliefs. However, we all know that would not be the case with the 2x2's and there would be a number of hoops to jump through to be re-admitted to their "social club" after once leaving. 
