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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 20, 2014 20:30:51 GMT -5
Bidderston Convention starts in a few weeks time, will this worker be at that convention ? Snow if the current Head Worker still has the same view he did 4 years ago no one will be let know about this.
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Post by nswelshman on Oct 20, 2014 20:43:00 GMT -5
Bidderston Convention starts in a few weeks time, will this worker be at that convention ? Snow if the current Head Worker still has the same view he did 4 years ago no one will be let know about this. The current head worker wasn't head worker 4 years ago. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 20, 2014 20:45:45 GMT -5
Review, if you are aware of the situation in this thread don't you think its more important to help change the situation by supporting those that want things like this dealt with, than arguing with Fixit over trivial rubbish.
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Post by fixit on Oct 20, 2014 20:56:02 GMT -5
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 20, 2014 21:21:50 GMT -5
Bidderston Convention starts in a few weeks time, will this worker be at that convention ? Snow if the current Head Worker still has the same view he did 4 years ago no one will be let know about this. The current head worker wasn't head worker 4 years ago. I know he wasn't. But I know what the current Head Workers view was on CSA issues 4 years ago ! |
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Post by mdm on Oct 20, 2014 21:27:40 GMT -5
Why don't the workers in the area let the people know who it is they should be careful of? Seems to make the most sense since he has been reported to the authorities. Then people like flower wouldn't have to spend the night awake and worrying. They would know who to watch out for. What are the senior workers thinking they are accomplishing by not being up front about issues with one of their own? Somebody tell flower. I don't know anything about this particular case, but in general, the root of the problem is that workers and especially overseers have not been willing to expose CSA offenders and deal with them in a moral and legal way. The victims have been told to forgive and forget and have not been encouraged to report abuse, but have even been warned against it. It sounds like this particular worker has been reported to authorities, not by victims, but by anonymous concerned individuals, which is not enough for conviction. For a real change to happen in the fellowship, the ministry would have to admit past mistakes in dealing with CSA issues and give victims the green light to report abuse, so they can be assured that they and their families will not suffer negative consequences in the fellowship for reporting. |
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Post by fixit on Oct 20, 2014 22:58:38 GMT -5
Review005: I can think of nothing I would prefer to discuss with you in private rather than here on TMB.
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Post by fixit on Oct 20, 2014 23:31:03 GMT -5
Fixit, You have been 'discussing' for 20 years over thousands of posts;time to get real in real life. But you seem to have made it clear that you have no intention of doing so. Get rid of the cult-like tendencies of the fellowship and I'll gladly stop posting on TMB. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 20, 2014 23:59:12 GMT -5
Fixit, You have been 'discussing' for 20 years over thousands of posts;time to get real in real life. But you seem to have made it clear that you have no intention of doing so. Get rid of the cult-like tendencies of the fellowship and I'll gladly stop posting on TMB. Also start taking some responsibility as a whole (The Fellowship) for those that have been effected by CSA. You have the perfect opportunity here in this thread to do that Review, so what do you say ?? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 21, 2014 0:37:55 GMT -5
Review are you serious ? What is more important you being right or doing something about CSA ? Honestly if this is an example of what the workers do when serious issues like this are raised no wonder it has gone on & been hidden for so many years !
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Post by fixit on Oct 21, 2014 0:44:58 GMT -5
After 20yrs, thousands of posts & you haven't been able to do anything about the cult-like tendencies? Perhaps you could try speaking to the sisters before they leave about the sad situation. Tell them you will resign your eldership if something is not done. What difference would that make to the cult-like tendencies? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 1:09:48 GMT -5
After 20yrs, thousands of posts & you haven't been able to do anything about the cult-like tendencies? Perhaps you could try speaking to the sisters before they leave about the sad situation. Tell them you will resign your eldership if something is not done. What difference would that make to the cult-like tendencies? just as much as you make on here |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 1:40:05 GMT -5
Review, if you are aware of the situation in this thread don't you think its more important to help change the situation by supporting those that want things like this dealt with, than arguing with Fixit over trivial rubbish. This thread could be a load of rubbish. Even though authorities have been advised, no action has been taken.No victims have come forward. Maybe they don't exist. Very sad if this person is innocent, but has been labelled by innuendo. |
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 21, 2014 1:49:50 GMT -5
Review, if you are aware of the situation in this thread don't you think its more important to help change the situation by supporting those that want things like this dealt with, than arguing with Fixit over trivial rubbish. This thread could be a load of rubbish. Even though authorities have been advised, no action has been taken.No victims have come forward. Maybe they don't exist. Very sad if this person is innocent, but has been labelled by innuendo. Redback I do not believe that is the case, just because no victims have come forward does not mean nothing happened ! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 2:41:23 GMT -5
Roselyn T, also a possibility that victims don't exist.
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Post by fixit on Oct 21, 2014 3:36:20 GMT -5
After 20yrs, thousands of posts & you haven't been able to do anything about the cult-like tendencies? Perhaps you could try speaking to the sisters before they leave about the sad situation. Tell them you will resign your eldership if something is not done. I'm surprised that you would advocate such a militant approach! It's not my style. I prefer to bring issues into the light and leave folks to discern for themselves between right and wrong, good and evil. Review005, I even have hope that your conscience will be awakened some day! |
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 21, 2014 5:11:13 GMT -5
You are correct hypocrisy is not good. I appreciate friends and who have the same persona in real life as they do on TMB. (TMB resident elder also) :-) There are several elders who are registered here. I consider them all to be resident elders.  |
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Post by rational on Oct 21, 2014 9:06:40 GMT -5
This thread could be a load of rubbish. Even though authorities have been advised, no action has been taken.No victims have come forward. Maybe they don't exist. Very sad if this person is innocent, but has been labelled by innuendo. Redback I do not believe that is the case, just because no victims have come forward does not mean nothing happened ! There is a difference between no victims going forward to the authorities and no victims coming forward. However it does raise the question of what actually happened and how many 'victims' have been created during the rumors and gossip. Having a network of friends make allegations against an individual does not mean the person is guilty. Nor does it mean they are not guilty. Imagine showing up at a convention and being met by a group who had been warned by other anonymous groups that they believed you were a danger to the children. You have no recourse. You are considered guilty. And are the children more or less safe? I think less safe since the probability is that there will be more than a single abuser at any convention. Scott stated that the abuse has been reported to the authorities but the victims themselves would not come forward. Who made the report? Perhaps the investigation process is different in other countries but in the cases with which I am familiar the investigation, once the suspicions/allegations have been made, is to actually talk to the victim and unless the victim denies there was any abuse the investigation continues. Are the parents of the victim or the victim condoning the abuse because it was a worker? That in itself seems criminal. |
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Post by bubbles on Oct 21, 2014 9:28:51 GMT -5
After 20yrs, thousands of posts & you haven't been able to do anything about the cult-like tendencies? Perhaps you could try speaking to the sisters before they leave about the sad situation. Tell them you will resign your eldership if something is not done. Now thats not nice. Sounds like blackmail. You are a leader in this group supposedly called by god to nurture and feed and protect. You have the ware with all in your position to institute change. Rattle cages in the heirachy. How much warning do you need ? How many times does the heart cry of the people bounce off your ears before you do something? Instead of action you are obsessed with how long fixit has been posting on the net?? Or Are you really deeply concerned and feeling helpless ? Lost? Confused? Powerless? Wanting to run? If I was you I think it would be highly likely. Im sure you are not the only one. It happened to Elijah. All you would need to do is gather people who love you and confront it together. Sure there would be a backlash but there is strength in unity. You would have parents backing you in the long run. You would also have heaven on your side. |
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Post by faune on Oct 21, 2014 11:17:19 GMT -5
If you are professing and reading here, please do not be satisfied just to protect your own children. Think of others who are not on the grapevine (internet or personal) and informed of dangers. I once trustingly opened my home to workers, while others who knew about dangers took measures to protect their own children. I personally feel deceived and cheated and not valued because nobody warned me of dangers. I am asking you to not participate in this deception by protecting only your own children. Think of the children in the whole church, not just your own. I am professing and obviously reading here and I will NOT take this lightly or stand back on this issue. I have read of this issue in other states and countries but when it's in your own backyard and your own children are at risk it certainly takes on a new level of meaning. I'm not saying I agree with the 'cover ups' in the past (quite the opposite ) but other than pray, one feels there isn't a lot they can meaningfully do in those cases when you don't know those involved. However, I am prepared to do what is necessary to help in this situation seeing as I presume fly would know the people involved. As yet I haven't been given any further details as to who this person is. I haven't slept all night worrying, praying and racking my brain trying to figure it out. If it is more than mere allegations (gossip) that this person has acted in this way, then this person needs to be exposed in the fellowship. I cannot agree with the comment that it would hinder us listening to this person as we would have preconceived thoughts about them and not take in the 'message'. God's servants are to live 'the truth' before us and others. If they aren't (and don't repent - which in my opinion would include being willing for the consequences of the law of the land) then they are no more than a hypocrite and should not have a place in the ministry. Perhaps there are other issues that I'm not aware of but from the way I see it, if those 'in the know' on this board are not willing to give the details of this person to people in Queensland, then how are they any different from those in the fellowship that cover it up? It is not enough to post on here 'be careful' when such a very small percentage if professing people in this state would ever see the post or hear of it. (No offence to any poster intended) Further, if I start going around saying 'be careful, a Qld worker has CSA allegations' I'm possibly going to be labeled a trouble maker and not taken much notice of unless there are some facts to back it up. Perhaps I being naive in my thoughts... Given I've had no experience in such matters before. There are 3 workers who I would happily meet with to discuss this issue and I'm prepared to do so. Please, if there is a reason this worker cannot be exposed here on this site could someone please pm me or ring or email me. Please pm me for details Thank you ~ I can see you really want to make a difference in your locale and I admire you courage. However, until the mentality at the top of the pyramid changes to one of real concern, I cannot see change taking place. I feel that if the friends value their fellowship, they need to take a united stand for change from within and not fear being shunned or marginalized. The strength of anybody's conviction depends upon how much they are willing to tolerate for truth and justice. Personally, I find it pretty hypocritical when people can protest a wrong in their midst and yet feel the need to do nothing to eradicate it? Perhaps that's why so many are leaving the Truth fellowship today? Perhaps they consider it a hopeless case when it comes down to evoking meaningful change from the top down? |
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 21, 2014 20:31:41 GMT -5
Review, I am very disappointed that you have not at least acknowledged what this thread is about. Its seems the care factor is ZERO !
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 22:43:13 GMT -5
Roselyn,you seem to be a very sensible lady. I would not lose any more sleep because of this warning. The information is totally unsubstantiated, made by concernedguest. It is their first post on TMB, and we need to know more about concernedguest. I note they have not made any comment since that first post. Strange!!!, I smell a rat. Roselyn, relax, go to Convention and enjoy it.
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Post by fred on Oct 21, 2014 23:55:35 GMT -5
Roselyn,you seem to be a very sensible lady. I would not lose any more sleep because of this warning. The information is totally unsubstantiated, made by concernedguest. It is their first post on TMB, and we need to know more about concernedguest. I note they have not made any comment since that first post. Strange!!!, I smell a rat. Roselyn, relax, go to Convention and enjoy it. I don't think we need to know more about (the person) concerned guest. What is required is some verification that this allegation 'has legs'. To whom do we turn? Failing that, I agree that we should go about our normal routine as usual, but with a higher level of awareness. |
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 22, 2014 5:30:37 GMT -5
I'm surprised that you would advocate such a militant approach!It's not my style. I prefer to bring issues into the light and leave folks to discern for themselves between right and wrong, good and evil. Review005, I even have hope that your conscience will be awakened some day! The sisters will not think of your ultimatum as militant after reading a few pages of your TMB posts. They'll thank you for making it.  Glad they are leaving? |
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Post by jimmy on Oct 22, 2014 7:04:44 GMT -5
I am backing up redback. To date the rumours against this individual are totally unsubstantiated. By all means be careful but don't destroy a potentially innocent man based on innuendo. If no one will press charges then he is entitled to the presumption of innocence.
The crime of raising a false allegation of CSA is almost as horrific as the crime of CSA itself in the trauma that it causes to the victim. I have seen how these reports have eaten into this man and the effect is that which I would expect of an innocent man - absolute devastation.
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Post by kencoolidge on Oct 22, 2014 7:24:30 GMT -5
I am backing up redback. To date the rumours against this individual are totally unsubstantiated. By all means be careful but don't destroy a potentially innocent man based on innuendo. If no one will press charges then he is entitled to the presumption of innocence. The crime of raising a false allegation of CSA is almost as horrific as the crime of CSA itself in the trauma that it causes to the victim. I have seen how these reports have eaten into this man and the effect is that which I would expect of an innocent man - absolute devastation. Jimmy Forgive me but your post sounds like worker talk ken |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 8:13:01 GMT -5
I am backing up redback. To date the rumours against this individual are totally unsubstantiated. By all means be careful but don't destroy a potentially innocent man based on innuendo. If no one will press charges then he is entitled to the presumption of innocence. The crime of raising a false allegation of CSA is almost as horrific as the crime of CSA itself in the trauma that it causes to the victim. I have seen how these reports have eaten into this man and the effect is that which I would expect of an innocent man - absolute devastation. In other words, he is innocent until proven guilty. I cannot argue with that because that is how jurisdictions look at it. If there is no official complaint against the suspect then he cannot be investigated and tried, so he must be presumed innocent. Complaints must go through the right and proper channels in order to get a more fair and satisfactory result for the accuser and the accused. I must admit that it must be devastating to be wrongfully accused with no way to clear yourself because the accusers would not come forward with a complaint so that the matter can be thoroughly investigated and dealt with officially. Ps. To be fair, It must be very devastating for the accusers also, if they are being blocked/ restrained, discouraged from making an official complaint. |
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Post by matisse on Oct 22, 2014 8:32:26 GMT -5
As long as parents assume that their children are safe at Convention unless warned otherwise, their kids will be at risk. As long as parents assume their children are safe at Convention as long as they are kept away from known or rumored abusers, their kids will remain at risk.
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