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Post by bubbles on Jan 21, 2015 15:49:14 GMT -5
This seems like an ill conceived idea. Other organizations have dealt with the victims internally and the results were less than satisfactory. By "come forward" I meant to report child sexual abuse. Nothing to do with dealing with victims internally. Fixit When victims come forward. What is done with the information? Hidden as a confidence? Never to be repeated? I guess it comes down to the care factor. People or the ministry. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 21, 2015 16:26:41 GMT -5
2015 9:57:56 GMT -6 partaker said:
When one is very short of money on a regular basis and that person manages to acquire a tidy sum of money, he is rich - much richer than he was previously; by the looks of it, the time you spent in England was not in the cockney areas of East London otherwise you would understand about language of endearment, there is lots of it there; and it is genuine, not meant to be insulting at all.
What I would find insulting and condescending is some white (racist??) people looking at grown people of color and addressing the as "boy."
This is an observation I have made during my two visits to the USA.
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That statement affirms what I believed before, that you seem to be stuck in bygone era.
Your visits to the USA surely were at least 50 years ago.
Just as we now realize that women do not appreciate being called "sweetie" by a man she doesn't even know, we also realize that black grown man does not appreciate being addressed as a "boy."
I haven't heard either of those words used by knowledgeable people for many years.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 17:00:26 GMT -5
,2015 9:57:56 GMT -6 partaker said:partaker Avatar Ok, I don't feel like playing ball today, rational, but I lived for many years in East London within the sound Of "bow bells" you know, the cockney area, after that I moved to Essex. When one is very short of money on a regular basis and that person manages to acquire a tidy sum of money, he is rich - much richer than he was previously; by the looks of it, the time you spent in England was not in the cockney areas of East London otherwise you would understand about language of endearment, there is lots of it there; and it is genuine, not meant to be insulting at all. What I would find insulting and condescending is some white (racist??) people looking at grown people of color and addressing the as "boy." This is an observation I have made during my two visits to the USA. Obviously neither President Obama nor Peggy Agar live or have lived in "cockney land." Note well, I gave the President his full title to which he is entitled, to do otherwise would have been disrespectful, and dare I say it- condescending.
Your visits to the USA surely were at least 50 years ago.
Just as we now realize that women do not appreciate being called "sweetie" by a man she doesn't even know, we also realize that black grown man does not appreciate being addressed as a "boy."
I haven't heard either of those words used by knowledgeable people for many years.No, you are wrong, I visited the USA in 1986 and Again in 2005, but maybe the folks I encountered were not " knowledgable people" based on your assessment. Then again you just cannot be in more than one place at any given time in the whole of America. Just because you haven't heard it does not mean that it didn't happen, does it? Just as rational visited England but never was called sweetie, or heard it so it does not happen, right? Take a trip to the UK and visit any of the markets in and around London and elsewhere. All good clean fun by very friendly pleasant people who are not stuck up.You cannot speak for all women, in the same way that I cannot speak for all men. It is interesting that the person I used the term "sweetie" to in my posting has not protested/objected but it has offended you and curlywurly enough for you to make a big fuss about it. Anyway have it your own way, I Am done, please yourselves, I extend my very best wishes to you. Ps. One problem with conversing on the Internet is that it is difficult to see and interpret body language, emoticans can help a little, But facial expressions and other body movement cannot be seen and it is difficult to assess whether people are serious or otherwise and that can create problems sometimes. So I shall steer clear of you over sensitive folks.
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Post by SharonArnold on Jan 21, 2015 17:11:10 GMT -5
That statement affirms what I believed before, that you seem to be stuck in bygone era.
Your visits to the USA surely were at least 50 years ago.
Just as we now realize that women do not appreciate being called "sweetie" by a man she doesn't even know, we also realize that black grown man does not appreciate being addressed as a "boy."
I haven't heard either of those words used by knowledgeable people for many years. To be fair to Partaker, there IS an ethnic/geographical component to these kinds of endearments. I can’t ever remember being called “sweetie”, except by a significant other. My recollections of any time I’ve been in the UK, “luv” would have been the most common. “Dear” is probably the most common one I hear in Canada. A couple of years ago, I was in a checkout line up in Calgary. The clerk was a very cheery, outgoing person with an Irish background, maybe 45 – 50 years old. The person ahead of me in the line up was probably in her late 60’s or 70’s, beautifully dressed, and making a valiant (and quite successful) attempt at holding back the ravages of time. When the clerk included “dear” as part of her patter, OMG, this lady absolutely lost it. She launched into a harangue about her being “condescending”, “patronizing” and I don’t know what else. Now, Canadians tend to be a polite sort of bunch, and all the rest of us were left standing there, stunned, mouths agape. The clerk was beyond devastated. As the next person in the line-up, I was left to pick up the pieces – and, trust me, I am not particularly good at that kind of thing. The clerk had been working in the service industry all her life, and had frequently used these kinds of endearments – but never had a negative reaction before. The best I could do was say “That kind of thing does not offend me. I like it. Maybe she’s just having a bad day.” When we take offense to these kinds of things, I think we need to honestly ask ourselves, if, for some reason, we are a “grievance looking for a cause”. OTOH, I have been witness to “sweetie”, being used as a deliberate insult, most commonly on internet forums. Context makes a huge difference. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 21, 2015 17:40:31 GMT -5
,2015 9:57:56 GMT -6 partaker said:partaker Avatar Ok, I don't feel like playing ball today, rational, but I lived for many years in East London within the sound Of "bow bells" you know, the cockney area, after that I moved to Essex. When one is very short of money on a regular basis and that person manages to acquire a tidy sum of money, he is rich - much richer than he was previously; by the looks of it, the time you spent in England was not in the cockney areas of East London otherwise you would understand about language of endearment, there is lots of it there; and it is genuine, not meant to be insulting at all. What I would find insulting and condescending is some white (racist??) people looking at grown people of color and addressing the as "boy." This is an observation I have made during my two visits to the USA. Obviously neither President Obama nor Peggy Agar live or have lived in "cockney land." Note well, I gave the President his full title to which he is entitled, to do otherwise would have been disrespectful, and dare I say it- condescending.
Your visits to the USA surely were at least 50 years ago.
Just as we now realize that women do not appreciate being called "sweetie" by a man she doesn't even know, we also realize that black grown man does not appreciate being addressed as a "boy."
I haven't heard either of those words used by knowledgeable people for many years.No, you are wrong, I visited the USA in 1986 and Again in 2005, but maybe the folks I encountered were not " knowledgable people" based on your assessment. Then again you just cannot be in more than one place at any given time in the whole of America. Just because you haven't heard it does not mean that it didn't happen, does it? Just as rational visited England but never was called sweetie, or heard it so it does not happen, right? Take a trip to the UK and visit any of the markets in and around London and elsewhere. All good clean fun by very friendly pleasant people who are not stuck up.
You cannot speak for all women, in the same way that I cannot speak for all men. It is interesting that the person I used the term "sweetie" to in my posting has not protested/objected but it has offended you and curlywurly enough for you to make a big fuss about it. Anyway have it your own way, I Am done, please yourselves, I extend my very best wishes to you.
I would say that whoever you heard call a black man "boy" in the US was indeed was a "racist."
Just as any man who doesn't know the woman that he is addressing & calls her "sweetie " is "sexist."
Also any young doctor addressing me as "young Lady" (when I am in my 80's and aware that I am NOT a young lady any more) is also being condescending.
Also any female medical personal who called my elderly husband "sweetie" or "hon" is being disrespectful.
You can attempt to rationalize such disrespect as, "All good clean fun by very friendly pleasant people who are not stuck up," and try to put the onus on the person you are being disrespectful towards, but it doesn't wash with us.
You see, we have already heard that excuse given many times.
It all come down to being respectful.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 17:42:06 GMT -5
That statement affirms what I believed before, that you seem to be stuck in bygone era.
Your visits to the USA surely were at least 50 years ago.
Just as we now realize that women do not appreciate being called "sweetie" by a man she doesn't even know, we also realize that black grown man does not appreciate being addressed as a "boy."
I haven't heard either of those words used by knowledgeable people for many years. To be fair to Partaker, there IS an ethnic/geographical component to these kinds of endearments. I can’t ever remember being called “sweetie”, except by a significant other. My recollections of any time I’ve been in the UK, “luv” would have been the most common. “Dear” is probably the most common one I hear in Canada. A couple of years ago, I was in a checkout line up in Calgary. The clerk was a very cheery, outgoing person with an Irish background, maybe 45 – 50 years old. The person ahead of me in the line up was probably in her late 60’s or 70’s, beautifully dressed, and making a valiant (and quite successful) attempt at holding back the ravages of time. When the clerk included “dear” as part of her patter, OMG, this lady absolutely lost it. She launched into a harangue about her being “condescending”, “patronizing” and I don’t know what else. Now, Canadians tend to be a polite sort of bunch, and all the rest of us were left standing there, stunned, mouths agape. The clerk was beyond devastated. As the next person in the line-up, I was left to pick up the pieces – and, trust me, I am not particularly good at that kind of thing. The clerk had been working in the service industry all her life, and had frequently used these kinds of endearments – but never had a negative reaction before. The best I could do was say “That kind of thing does not offend me. I like it. Maybe she’s just having a bad day.” When we take offense to these kinds of things, I think we need to honestly ask ourselves, if, for some reason, we are a “grievance looking for a cause”. OTOH, I have been witness to “sweetie”, being used as a deliberate insult, most commonly on internet forums. Context makes a huge difference. Thanks for your support, yes context make a difference. My wife and I were up in the UK for 4 months last year and made several visits to public markets in Stratford in east London, Walthamstow in east London, Dagenham, Essex, Barking in Essex and Romford in Essex and in each location my wife was address as, darling, love, sweetie and I also was addressed in such endearing terms by female stall holders and we both felt very comfortable with it. They were friendly and helpful and knew how to make customers feel welcomed. It is a indeed a cultural thing, apparently foreign to the USA. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 18:04:02 GMT -5
Dimmmichgood
Just to point out to you that there is completely different cultures in England, Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland., so your experiences in Scotland will have been different; one thing I have been able to glean from your postings is that you are over sensitive and that gives me an impression that you are one difficult person to interact with in any particular situation. Not even you doctor can pay you a harmless compliment, wow!!!!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 21, 2015 18:20:17 GMT -5
To be fair to Partaker, there IS an ethnic/geographical component to these kinds of endearments. I can’t ever remember being called “sweetie”, except by a significant other. My recollections of any time I’ve been in the UK, “luv” would have been the most common. “Dear” is probably the most common one I hear in Canada. A couple of years ago, I was in a checkout line up in Calgary. The clerk was a very cheery, outgoing person with an Irish background, maybe 45 – 50 years old. The person ahead of me in the line up was probably in her late 60’s or 70’s, beautifully dressed, and making a valiant (and quite successful) attempt at holding back the ravages of time. When the clerk included “dear” as part of her patter, OMG, this lady absolutely lost it. She launched into a harangue about her being “condescending”, “patronizing” and I don’t know what else. Now, Canadians tend to be a polite sort of bunch, and all the rest of us were left standing there, stunned, mouths agape. The clerk was beyond devastated. As the next person in the line-up, I was left to pick up the pieces – and, trust me, I am not particularly good at that kind of thing. The clerk had been working in the service industry all her life, and had frequently used these kinds of endearments – but never had a negative reaction before. The best I could do was say “That kind of thing does not offend me. I like it. Maybe she’s just having a bad day.” When we take offense to these kinds of things, I think we need to honestly ask ourselves, if, for some reason, we are a “grievance looking for a cause”. OTOH, I have been witness to “sweetie”, being used as a deliberate insult, most commonly on internet forums. Context makes a huge difference. Thanks for your support, yes context make a difference. My wife and I were up in the UK for 4 months last year and made several visits to public markets in Stratford in east London, Walthamstow in east London, Dagenham, Essex, Barking in Essex and Romford in Essex and in each location my wife was address as, darling, love, sweetie and I also was addressed in such endearing terms by female stall holders and we both felt very comfortable with it. They were friendly and helpful and knew how to make customers feel welcomed. It is a indeed a cultural thing, apparently foreign to the USA.
No, it is not foreign to the USA!
I am trying to show how a person can become more conscious of ways that can be very hurtful & disrespectful towards others, -even when they may not realize that they are doing so!
I grew up in a world where men were dismissive of the worth of a woman by calling her "affectionate" names!
It was a way of saying that she was like a child, not able to be as knowledgeable as men.
It was also the time that white men would address a grown black man as "boy" for the same reason,- that the black man wasn't able to be as knowledgeable as the white men.
Now, you can be just as dismissive as you like, but it isn't going to change what my generation knew to be true.
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Post by rational on Jan 21, 2015 18:23:31 GMT -5
Ok, I don't feel like playing ball today, rational, but I lived for many years in East London within the sound Of "bow bells" you know, the cockney area, after that I moved to Essex. It was a different area. Most in central London. I was working as a consultant to Shell and HP at the time and they were working with British Gas. A fun group if there ever was one! I am not certain exactly where the 12 regional offices were - they provided transportation. I wonder what year that might have been. Probably not! That is good. I wonder if Obama reads here? Perhaps you will note that I did manage to use an upper case 'O' at the start of his name! |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 21, 2015 18:37:05 GMT -5
Dimmmichgood Just to point out to you that there is completely different cultures in England, Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland., so your experiences in Scotland will have been different; one thing I have been able to glean from your postings is that you are over sensitive and that gives me an impression that you are one difficult person to interact with in any particular situation. Not even you doctor can pay you a harmless compliment, wow!!!!
"I am woman, hear me roar!"
You better not get in my way or I might accidentaly run you over.
Not on purpose of course, it is just that my sight isn't what it use to be, -hearing either.
So you Better keep the training wheels on your tricycle for awhile longer & stay on the sidewalks.
And another thing, -mind your manners, "sonny boy." Mind how you speak to your elders!
Better yet, remember children should be seen & not heard!  
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 19:08:09 GMT -5
Dimmmichgood Just to point out to you that there is completely different cultures in England, Scotland , Wales and Northern Ireland., so your experiences in Scotland will have been different; one thing I have been able to glean from your postings is that you are over sensitive and that gives me an impression that you are one difficult person to interact with in any particular situation. Not even you doctor can pay you a harmless compliment, wow!!!!
"I am woman, hear me roar!"
You better not get in my way or I might accidentaly run you over.
Not on purpose of course, it is just that my sight isn't what it use to be, -hearing either.
So you Better keep the training wheels on your tricycle for awhile longer & stay on the sidewalks.
And another thing, -mind your manners, "sonny boy." Mind how you speak to your elders!
Better yet, remember children should be seen & not heard!
Children!!? Now that one has fallen flat, you may be surprise to know that I am probably not too far behind you in age, maybe that is why we miserable old souls can find so much time to bicker on the Internet about the past in the present because we don't know how much of a future there is left for us; we are like sitting in the departure lounge hoping that the plane does not  come anytime soon. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 21, 2015 19:15:52 GMT -5
Yep, "sonny boy" I am one "over sensitive" old lady!
"I am woman, hear me roar!"
You better not get in my way or I might accidentaly run you over.
Not on purpose of course, it is just that my sight isn't what it use to be, -hearing either.
So you Better keep the training wheels on your tricycle for awhile longer & stay on the sidewalks.
And another thing, -mind your manners, "sonny boy." Mind how you speak to your elders!
Better yet, remember children should be seen & not heard!
Children!!? Now that one has fallen flat, you may be surprise to know that I am probably not too far behind you in age, maybe that is why we miserable old souls can find so much time to bicker on the Internet about the past in the present because we don't know how much of a future there is for us; we are like sitting in the departure lounge hoping that the plane does not come anytime soon.
I'm 83 next month.
Besides, don't know about you but I'm not sitting waiting for that plane.
And also besides, I have often found that it doesn't matter how old one is, wisdom DOESN'T always follow! 
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 19:34:50 GMT -5
Children!!? Now that one has fallen flat, you may be surprise to know that I am probably not too far behind you in age, maybe that is why we miserable old souls can find so much time to bicker on the Internet about the past in the present because we don't know how much of a future there is for us; we are like sitting in the departure lounge hoping that the plane does not come anytime soon.
I'm 83 next month.
Besides, don't know about you but I'm not sitting waiting for that plane.
And also besides, I have often found that it doesn't matter how old one is, wisdom DOESN'T always follow!
Aha, you only have a ten year lead but I bet you have a better back than I have, you wouldn't like to exchange backs would you?  Then you would know what real pain is. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 21, 2015 20:14:54 GMT -5
Aha! So just HOW far behind me are you?
I'm 83 next month.
Besides, don't know about you but I'm not sitting waiting for that plane.
And also besides, I have often found that it doesn't matter how old one is, wisdom DOESN'T always follow!
Aha, you only have a ten year lead but I bet you have a better back than I have, you wouldn't like to exchange backs would you? Then you would know what real pain is.
How do you know that I have a better back than you do?
What makes you think that you know what "real pain" is better than I do? 
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 4:09:25 GMT -5
Aha, you only have a ten year lead but I bet you have a better back than I have, you wouldn't like to exchange backs would you? Then you would know what real pain is.
How do you know that I have a better back than you do?
What makes you think that you know what "real pain" is better than I do?
Just guessing/speculating after observing the energy you seem to generate on this forum for your age. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 22, 2015 14:53:19 GMT -5
Hey!
How do you know that I have a better back than you do?
What makes you think that you know what "real pain" is better than I do?
Just guessing/speculating after observing the energy you seem to generate on this forum for your age. Hey!
How do you know that I have a better back than you do?
What makes you think that you know what "real pain" is better than I do?
Just guessing/speculating after observing the energy you seem to generate on this forum for your age. Hey!
How do you know that I have a better back than you do?
What makes you think that you know what "real pain" is better than I do?
Just guessing/speculating after observing the energy you seem to generate on this forum for your age.
Most seniors are mentally and physically active regardless of age with a great deal to contribute.
However, societal norms marginalize seniors, treat them with disrespect, make them feel unwelcome and otherwise generalize as if they were all the same."
See? Now that is another "ism" like "racism or sexism" to add to the list.
Aren't you glad that you "met" me?
I can teach you something new every day!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 15:15:28 GMT -5
Just guessing/speculating after observing the energy you seem to generate on this forum for your age. Just guessing/speculating after observing the energy you seem to generate on this forum for your age. Just guessing/speculating after observing the energy you seem to generate on this forum for your age.
Most seniors are mentally and physically active regardless of age with a great deal to contribute.
However, societal norms marginalize seniors, treat them with disrespect, make them feel unwelcome and otherwise generalize as if they were all the same."
See? Now that is another "ism" like "racism or sexism" to add to the list.
Aren't you glad that you "met" me?
I can teach you something new every day!
Yes mam, you sure can; you are old but not cold, you are firing on all four cylinders. Hey, I am beginning to like you! |
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Post by rational on Jan 22, 2015 21:45:48 GMT -5
Yes mam, you sure can; you are old but not cold, you are firing on all four cylinders. Hey, I am beginning to like you! (rofl) :D But she might be driving a flathead straight six! |
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come anytime soon.
Then you would know what real pain is.