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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 14:18:22 GMT -5
It makes the same amount of sense as saying God doesn't exist - when He is all around us in His Creation.
And in having the historical record of Christ coming to earth in the flesh - and Resurrection.
Yet, some say they don't believe in Him or in his promises to us.
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Post by matisse on Apr 2, 2014 14:30:26 GMT -5
It makes the same amount of sense as saying God doesn't exist - when He is all around us in His Creation. And in having the historical record of Christ coming to earth in the flesh - and Resurrection. . These are your projections and statements of your faith.. This is a verifiable statement of fact!
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 14:32:52 GMT -5
Sorry.
I like my new-found belief that atheists do NOT exist.
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Post by matisse on Apr 2, 2014 14:39:21 GMT -5
Sorry. I like my new-found belief that atheists do NOT exist. Well, I don't think you're hurting anyone, so I say if it makes you happy, go with it!
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 2, 2014 14:41:09 GMT -5
thats pretty cynical friend.... Perhaps, but it's reality if you believe that. I'm glad I don't, anymore, so I'm not forced to be cynical by my beliefs. It's a lot more peaceful to believe in a non-bloodthirsty God and admit that I don't know much about him, than to try to believe that God (though he loves you more than we can imagine!) will make you suffer eternally if you don't live exactly how he wants. Actually, it is a lot more peaceful to NOT believe in any god, bloodthirsty, or otherwise!
If you believe in a "bloodthirsty god" that will send you to an everlasting torture in an afterlife just because you won't believe in him, then you have to try and reconcile that with a "loving god."
If you beieve in a "loving god" that loves you and is concerned about you in this life, then you have to try and reconcile all the horrible things that he allows to happen to people here and now.
The most peaceful place to be is just to use the little grey cells in your head and realize that there is NO god at all, "bloodthirsty" or "loving!"
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 14:43:43 GMT -5
Sorry. I like my new-found belief that atheists do NOT exist. Well, I don't think you're hurting anyone, so I say if it makes you happy, go with it! With your blessing - it is even better! Thanks! I never believed it anyway - so it was good to see it so aptly expressed.
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Post by dmmichgood on Apr 2, 2014 14:45:53 GMT -5
Sorry. I like my new-found belief that atheists do NOT exist. Your "new-found" belief comes from hiding your head in the sand and hallucinating!
Take you head out of the sand, anne,and take a big breath of fresh air and re-oxygenate your brain cells so you will stop hallucinating!
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 14:49:24 GMT -5
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 14:52:58 GMT -5
Sorry. I like my new-found belief that atheists do NOT exist. Your "new-found" belief comes from hiding your head in the sand and hallucinating!
Take you head out of the sand, anne,and take a big breath of fresh air and re-oxygenate your brain cells so you will stop hallucinating!
Yep, yep. You expressed exactly the way I have secretly always believed about atheists. I already Pm'd matisse that we'd be hearing from you.
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 15:16:16 GMT -5
Perhaps, but it's reality if you believe that. I'm glad I don't, anymore, so I'm not forced to be cynical by my beliefs. It's a lot more peaceful to believe in a non-bloodthirsty God and admit that I don't know much about him, than to try to believe that God (though he loves you more than we can imagine!) will make you suffer eternally if you don't live exactly how he wants. Actually, it is a lot more peaceful to NOT believe in any god, bloodthirsty, or otherwise!
If you believe in a "bloodthirsty god" that will send you to an everlasting torture in an afterlife just because you won't believe in him, then you have to try and reconcile that with a "loving god."
If you believe in a "loving god" that loves you and is concerned about you in this life, then you have to try and reconcile all the horrible things that he allows to happen to people here and now.
The most peaceful place to be is just to use the little grey cells in your head and realize that there is NO god at all, "bloodthirsty" or "loving!"
Dmmichgood ~ Now this sounds a lot like "cognitive dissonance" which I was just discussing on my old thread I resurrected recently regarding examining our core beliefs. Plato's Cave analogy comes to mind here in relation to this "cognitive dissonance" we sometimes experience when we are trying reconcile things within our mind to be more believable? Towards the end of this short video around the 7 minute mark, this college professor explains how Neo-Platonism was introduced and under-pings the development of Judaism and early Christianity around the first century and down through the centuries, which helped to form to core beliefs of Christianity today. This man presenting this video would remind you of Moses, but he does a good job of explaining this analogy, I must admit. Basically, the moral of this story is that the "unexamined life is not worth living" in the analogy of Plato's Cave. professing.proboards.com/thread/21097/core-beliefs-shape-life-experience
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVN5PRpM_1Y
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism_and_Christianity (Neoplatonism and Christianity)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=axARKd24eHo
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 16:02:59 GMT -5
Quote - "A God Who will torture a soul forever that HAS NEVER HEARD OF JESUS...."
Let's see what Jesus actually SAID:
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out." Repeated twice for good measure.
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"
"But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
"I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
Let's see what Jesus actually DID:
"Do you see all these great buildings? Not one stone will be left on another. Every stone will be thrown down to the ground.”
"They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."
Is there any problem in believing Jesus will do as He says?
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 16:04:38 GMT -5
If you believe in a "bloodthirsty god" that will send you to an everlasting torture in an afterlife just because you won't believe in him, then you have to try and reconcile that with a "loving god."
If you believe in a "loving god" that loves you and is concerned about you in this life, then you have to try and reconcile all the horrible things that he allows to happen to people here and now.
I don't think those are the only two options for believing in God. Honestabe ~ Ditto! I really don't believe we need to throw the baby out with the bath water! I also believe there are other options regarding how we view the Creator God that people need to explore besides what we find within the teachings of Christianity within the Bible. I believe a lot of confusion is caused over misinterpretation of scripture today . I still believe in God as a creative presence over the universe and that we all have an inborn soul, which speaks of an "eternal spark" within mankind. In summary, Ecclesiastes 3:11 brings out this thought out in the Old Testament and Jesus also spoke about the "kingdom of God" being found within us in Luke 17:20-21.
As a result, I personally feel we need to dig deeper into what the Bible may be trying to tell us with an open mind? Otherwise, we can get all twisted up inside due to the contradictions and discrepancies that do arise from taking everything so literally. I'm not "dissing" the Bible or Christianity in my statement, but rather saying we need to look for deeper meaning within the scriptures apart from the Church dogma we have been brought up believing to be true and fixed in stone. I like the way these verses read in the Amplified Version of the Bible where the words are interpreted in brackets from the original Greek, making the meaning intended so much easier to understand. That's why the Amplified Bible is my favorite version for Bible study today.
biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/3-11.htm
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2017%3A20-21&version=AMP;NIV;KJV
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2014 18:04:02 GMT -5
Sorry. I like my new-found belief that atheists do NOT exist. Well, I believe that Catholics are out to lunch -- therefore they are out to lunch.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2014 18:06:02 GMT -5
Your "new-found" belief comes from hiding your head in the sand and hallucinating!
Take you head out of the sand, anne,and take a big breath of fresh air and re-oxygenate your brain cells so you will stop hallucinating!
Yep, yep. You expressed exactly the way I have secretly always believed about atheists. I already Pm'd matisse that we'd be hearing from you. You seem to be more Catholic than the pope, for lack of a better way of putting it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2014 18:08:28 GMT -5
Quote - "A God Who will torture a soul forever that HAS NEVER HEARD OF JESUS...." Let's see what Jesus actually SAID:"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out." Repeated twice for good measure.
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"
"But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
"I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." Let's see what Jesus actually DID:"Do you see all these great buildings? Not one stone will be left on another. Every stone will be thrown down to the ground.”
"They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."Is there any problem in believing Jesus will do as He says?YES. It is funny that Jesus is only recorded making such a prediction AFTER the destruction had occurred. For the record, I had a premonition that Obama will get elected for a second term in office.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 18:21:36 GMT -5
while its been suggested that matthew was written in 70AD mark may have been written in 40-60AD and luke in 60ADish
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 18:21:33 GMT -5
Yep, yep. You expressed exactly the way I have secretly always believed about atheists. I already Pm'd matisse that we'd be hearing from you. You seem to be more Catholic than the pope, for lack of a better way of putting it. I think pretty much everyone here already knows that I am Catholic. So your point (where none exists) is moot.
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Post by Gene on Apr 2, 2014 18:25:46 GMT -5
I agree with you... but I'm curious: How does it feel to be more merciful than God? It always felt unsettling. But I've let go of rigid interpretations of the bible and no longer have to believe God is less merciful than I am. Good for you! That sounds like a healthy approach.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 18:31:26 GMT -5
Quote - "YES. It is funny that Jesus is only recorded making such a prediction AFTER the destruction had occurred."
Yes, and its funny how so many Christians heeded Jesus' warnings and escaped Roman destruction, like, long after the Roman destruction.
And funny how Jacob, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel etc also spoke of the destruction of Israel AFTER THE MESSIAH HAS COME.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 2, 2014 18:33:07 GMT -5
You seem to be more Catholic than the pope, for lack of a better way of putting it. I think pretty much everyone here already knows that I am Catholic. So your point (where none exists) is moot. The reason I say that is because you seem more sure of the infallibility of many of your beliefs than popes have been.
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Post by Gene on Apr 2, 2014 18:34:53 GMT -5
Whoa! Faune! That looks suspiciously like that gay S&M that hangingout was complaining about! (Not that I've ever seen such depravity.) (Or experienced it.) (Yet.) (This week.)
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 18:41:25 GMT -5
I think pretty much everyone here already knows that I am Catholic. So your point (where none exists) is moot. The reason I say that is because you seem more sure of the infallibility of many of your beliefs than popes have been. I see. I tend not to express anything that can't be confirmed in written teaching. And generally include the references.
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 19:27:42 GMT -5
The reason I say that is because you seem more sure of the infallibility of many of your beliefs than popes have been. I see. I tend not to express anything that can't be confirmed in written teaching. And generally include the references. StAnne ~ That's a good practice! I do the same when I quote a reference so as people will have no doubt where it comes from and can check it for themselves. It makes surfing on the Internet so much easier when people provide their references, IMHO.
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Post by faune on Apr 2, 2014 19:39:17 GMT -5
Whoa! Faune! That looks suspiciously like that gay S&M that hangingout was complaining about! (Not that I've ever seen such depravity.) (Or experienced it.) (Yet.) (This week.) Gene ~ You are so funny in your remarks!
You should check out my other thread on Core Beliefs for some more funny animated videos regarding Plato's Cave analogy as it relates to cognitive dissonance in our thinking. However, did you notice I didn't post this on "gay worker" thread. I felt enough had been said after it went over the 10,000 mark in comments and I made plenty myself.
By the way, could you help Dmmichgood and me with some suggestions on how to insert a personal photo as an avatar for this Pro-board? While I was trying to figure out how to help her do this this I deleted my own photo that you helped me with before and somehow managed to replace it with the deer eating popcorn. I was hoping to get the animated version, but it didn't come out that way. Since I enjoy a bowl of popcorn sometimes while posting on line, I figured it was an appropriate avatar for me, since my name resembles a little dear, too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 21:06:56 GMT -5
Funny thing about people quoting the cave analogy (ie God or no God) is that it works both ways. Something to think about
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2014 21:11:48 GMT -5
Bob, here's one reference to Jesus I mentioned last month
"The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he to whom it belongs shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his."
Gen 49:10 ca 2000 BC.
from Judah came Jesus. from Judah came the Israelite monarchy who guarded the Law. as part of a nation which then didn't exist.
And the monarchy, law (and nation?) would last until the coming of the Messiah. And then the end of monarchy and the Law.
And the Messiah - in whom the whole world would be gathered (or obey) Another favorite text of mine says the Messiah is one "whom the Gentiles trust."
Says too that in the end only two tribes would exist - Ephraim and Mannesa - the religious and secular Jews, ones who were not really a part of the twelve.
THIS IS POWERFUL STUFF. IT WASN'T WRITTEN IN THE FIRST CENTURY AD.
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 21:22:28 GMT -5
The reason I say that is because you seem more sure of the infallibility of many of your beliefs than popes have been. I see. I tend not to express anything that can't be confirmed in written teaching. And generally include the references. I responded to the 'beliefs' but just now noticed the 'infallibility' ... The pope’s infallibility in his extraordinary magisterium (teaching role) has been used only once since 1870 www.americancatholic.org/messenger/aug2004/Wiseman.asp
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Post by Lee on Apr 2, 2014 23:10:36 GMT -5
Quote - " I don't believe in eternal torment..."
Did Jesus? Hard to say for sure but I tend to impute qualities to him that I think he should have.
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