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Post by faune on Apr 1, 2014 8:54:50 GMT -5
I believe the soul of mankind has a destiny. You can board that train or buck it, but it won't be stopping for you. Lee ~ What exactly are your own views regarding Hell and the afterlife? Do you believe in eternal torment forever and ever for lost souls or a final annihilation of unbelievers in God along with evil doers? Which view do you think lines up with God's eternal justice? I also believe in a destiny for our souls, by the way.
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Post by faune on Apr 1, 2014 8:57:26 GMT -5
Faune I don't concede their authority. All these people are reading the bible? If so, then can't you read it yourself to avoid bias? If they are not reading the bible then they are not acknowledging the bible's ultimate authority. Bert ~ I do read my Bible a lot. That's why I'm asking these questions to learn what others here actually think about the afterlife for the lost.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 9:05:33 GMT -5
And Jesus gave a quite explicit and chilling account of hell, both in the Gospels and Revelation. The verse I often think about is Mark 9:44-48 where He states that the things people chose to live for in this life can be the things they will thirst forever for, without prospect of quenching that thirst.
These are Jesus' own words.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 12:45:39 GMT -5
For those who belief in eternal torment for non-Christians/non-professing/non-whatever...isn't it pretty much unethical to have children? What if they don't believe as you do? Then they are going to suffer for eternity, all because you thought it would be nice to have kids for this brief span of life, perhaps thinking you could undoubtedly sway them into a Christian life. I hope you're happy. thats pretty cynical friend....
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2014 15:33:53 GMT -5
Faune, if you want to "pause and consider" why don't you pause and consider the bible itself? In literature the bible would be called the "source material." If you want to read some "expert" opinion on the bible then to be intellectually honest you will have to read them all. And there's a lot of opinion out there. In the Old and New Testament we understand hell to be separation from God. And heaven to be everlasting fellowship with God. I am sure all the OT saints understood that long before Jesus made it explicit. I think the Pope somewhat confirmed this line of thought a few years ago when he said that hell was just a separation from God. It was a state of being rather than an eternal torment in a burning lake of fire.
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Post by snow on Apr 1, 2014 15:38:10 GMT -5
For those who belief in eternal torment for non-Christians/non-professing/non-whatever...isn't it pretty much unethical to have children? What if they don't believe as you do? Then they are going to suffer for eternity, all because you thought it would be nice to have kids for this brief span of life, perhaps thinking you could undoubtedly sway them into a Christian life. I hope you're happy. thats pretty cynical friend.... Why? It actually shows he is thinking about it. You can't make your children believe the same as you. If they don't they will go to hell. I am going to hell. My parents believed that completely from the day I quit professing till the day they died. My half brothers and sisters also believe I'm going to hell. So did my birth mom till the day she died. So if you don't want to risk you're children going to hell, don't have any.
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Post by faune on Apr 1, 2014 15:54:58 GMT -5
Faune, if you want to "pause and consider" why don't you pause and consider the bible itself? In literature the bible would be called the "source material." If you want to read some "expert" opinion on the bible then to be intellectually honest you will have to read them all. And there's a lot of opinion out there. In the Old and New Testament we understand hell to be separation from God. And heaven to be everlasting fellowship with God. I am sure all the OT saints understood that long before Jesus made it explicit. I think the Pope somewhat confirmed this line of thought a few years ago when he said that hell was just a separation from God. It was a state of being rather than an eternal torment in a burning lake of fire. Snow ~ Yes, Pope Francis seems to be a compassionate soul and I like him the best of all the Popes and I'm not even Catholic!
Also, this long article about different diabolical doctrines has this one included as #15 in their list. I just finished reading that particular one about eternal torment forever and ever in Hell and feel this writer makes some very realistic points along these lines!
www.thepathoftruth.com/falsehoodexposed/diabolical2.htm#15
www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/restitution/meaningforever.htm
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Post by faune on Apr 1, 2014 16:06:03 GMT -5
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Post by faune on Apr 1, 2014 16:13:51 GMT -5
Here's an excerpt from that second article I quoted earlier that deals with the use of "forever and everlasting" as used in scripture. I believe if you read this article in its entirety, you will see there is justification for a "reasonable doubt" concerning eternal torment forever and ever for the unbelieving among us?
www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/restitution/meaningforever.htm
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embers
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God is love. He isn't the monster you think He is.
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Post by embers on Apr 1, 2014 16:55:24 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic. One I've always been interested in. Personally, I don't believe that the bible teaches eternal torment. Those who think it does are somehow missing the point (IMO). However, if I'm wrong, and there is such a thing as eternal torment (where a soul burns forever and ever in an eternal fire that cannot be quenched), then God might as well cast me in there with the rest of them, as I would not worship a god who would torture his own sons and daughters in such a way (for heaven's sake people, a sane human wont even torture his own child, and yet there are people saying God will do such a thing FOREVER... and God is so much better that us). A God Who will torture a soul forever that HAS NO CHOICE to being born into sin.... A God Who will torture a soul forever that HAS NEVER HEARD OF JESUS.... A God Who will torture a soul because he/she was not chosen from eternity.... A God Who will torture a soul for not 'making the right choice' in a short lifespan (a blink of the eye in the scope of eternity).... This is ridiculous, and such a God is a monster, not a Father.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 17:03:32 GMT -5
Quote - "If hell is just separation from God, how would it differ from an atheist's normal life?"
Jesus gave the parable of the rich man. He might have been an atheist, or a believer. But in the hereafter he was denied the pleasures and rights of his life, and could see what he was missing.
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Post by Gene on Apr 1, 2014 17:10:32 GMT -5
Hangingout ~ I don't disagree with you regarding the truly evil people who have inhabited this planet ~ like Hitler and many who would resemble him down through the ages. However, the question remains as to whether these people simply die as the Old Testament taught or they are destroyed with a furnace of fire, or just continue to exist in the after-life in a torturous state for all eternity? Even for the very wicked, this would seem a horrible punishment to endure in their resurrected bodies for Judgment and condemnation? Horrible as he was, I would say even Hitler would have paid for his crimes after the first 792 x 10 378 or so years or fiery torment.I agree with you... but I'm curious: How does it feel to be more merciful than God?
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Post by Gene on Apr 1, 2014 17:11:46 GMT -5
I believe the soul of mankind has a destiny. You can board that train or buck it, but it won't be stopping for you. Now I'm just confused. How the heck am I supposed to board a moving train?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 17:14:08 GMT -5
I believe the soul of mankind has a destiny. You can board that train or buck it, but it won't be stopping for you. Now I'm just confused. How the heck am I supposed to board a moving train? quickly
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Post by faune on Apr 1, 2014 17:14:20 GMT -5
Quote - " If hell is just separation from God, how would it differ from an atheist's normal life?"Jesus gave the parable of the rich man. He might have been an atheist, or a believer. But in the hereafter he was denied the pleasures and rights of his life, and could see what he was missing. Bert ~ Did you notice my earlier article regarding Luke 16 at the bottom of Page 2 of this thread? Here's the reference link I posted earlier below. It's pretty interesting and goes into quite a lot of detail regarding this story that Jesus told within the Gospel of Luke. It might even change your own POV, if you check it out?
www.bibleexplained.com/Gospels/Luke/Lu16b.htm l
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Post by Gene on Apr 1, 2014 17:15:11 GMT -5
Now I'm just confused. How the heck am I supposed to board a moving train? quickly Hah! That's for sure!
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Post by faune on Apr 1, 2014 17:16:27 GMT -5
Now I'm just confused. How the heck am I supposed to board a moving train? quickly Hberry ~ Leave it to Gene to pick up on the obvious! I also liked your answer! Hopefully, Lee will explain his statement in more detail as this thread continues?
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Post by slowtosee on Apr 1, 2014 17:42:09 GMT -5
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Post by Lee on Apr 1, 2014 21:34:10 GMT -5
I believe the soul of mankind has a destiny. You can board that train or buck it, but it won't be stopping for you. Lee ~ What exactly are your own views regarding Hell and the afterlife? Do you believe in eternal torment forever and ever for lost souls or a final annihilation of unbelievers in God along with evil doers? Which view do you think lines up with God's eternal justice? I also believe in a destiny for our souls, by the way. I don't believe in eternal torment but I believe God is the source of every paradigm and alter by which our souls are refined and consigned.
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Post by Lee on Apr 1, 2014 21:36:41 GMT -5
I believe the soul of mankind has a destiny. You can board that train or buck it, but it won't be stopping for you. Now I'm just confused. How the heck am I supposed to board a moving train? Because you've been moving in the direction of that train from birth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2014 23:35:33 GMT -5
Quote - "I don't believe in eternal torment..."
Did Jesus?
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2014 12:54:37 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic. One I've always been interested in. Personally, I don't believe that the bible teaches eternal torment. Those who think it does are somehow missing the point (IMO). However, if I'm wrong, and there is such a thing as eternal torment (where a soul burns forever and ever in an eternal fire that cannot be quenched), then God might as well cast me in there with the rest of them, as I would not worship a god who would torture his own sons and daughters in such a way (for heaven's sake people, a sane human wont even torture his own child, and yet there are people saying God will do such a thing FOREVER... and God is so much better that us). A God Who will torture a soul forever that HAS NO CHOICE to being born into sin.... A God Who will torture a soul forever that HAS NEVER HEARD OF JESUS.... A God Who will torture a soul because he/she was not chosen from eternity.... A God Who will torture a soul for not 'making the right choice' in a short lifespan (a blink of the eye in the scope of eternity).... This is ridiculous, and such a God is a monster, not a Father. My thoughts exactly. Which is why I decided that the Christian god is not worthy of worship even if it existed.
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2014 12:56:18 GMT -5
I believe the soul of mankind has a destiny. You can board that train or buck it, but it won't be stopping for you. Now I'm just confused. How the heck am I supposed to board a moving train? Run really really fast and do a flying leap and hope like heck you don't miss....??
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Post by snow on Apr 2, 2014 12:57:37 GMT -5
Hberry ~ Leave it to Gene to pick up on the obvious! I also liked your answer! Hopefully, Lee will explain his statement in more detail as this thread continues? Not sure Lee explaining his statement will help. It just leads to more bafflement and even more explanations and on it goes.
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 13:55:20 GMT -5
Quote - " I don't believe in eternal torment..."
Did Jesus? Speaking of ' not believing in ...' I cannot take credit for this quote - except for sharing it ... I do not believe in atheists. Therefore, atheists do not exist.
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Post by matisse on Apr 2, 2014 14:04:07 GMT -5
Quote - " I don't believe in eternal torment..."
Did Jesus? Speaking of ' not believing in ...' I cannot take credit for this quote - except for sharing it ... I do not believe in atheists. Therefore, atheists do not exist.Ha! Don't you wish!!
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Post by StAnne on Apr 2, 2014 14:07:22 GMT -5
Same right back-atcha as it applies to God!
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Post by matisse on Apr 2, 2014 14:14:58 GMT -5
Same right back-atcha as it applies to God! Not really a "right back-atcha." The statement corresponding to " I do not believe in atheists. Therefore, atheists do not exist" would be, " I do not believe in Christians. Therefore, Christians do not exist. Neither one makes any sense!
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