|
Post by sacerdotal on Dec 29, 2013 10:52:13 GMT -5
"For human rights to flourish, religious rights have to come second to them. We are all human. We are not all of the same religion, or religious at all. One cannot protect religious rights if they are used as a reason to abuse human rights, human equalities, as so often they are." Deborah Orr- The GuardianExactly. Or as Jesus said, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." Or, even better, "Love your enemies." The 2x2 fellowships cornerstone message is this: "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." None of the other trappings of righteousness mean anything since the central, most unifying belief is not Christ's message- but the message of "Preachers without a home, and a church in a home". To be saved as a 2x2 one must believe in the workers, belief in Jesus is a secondary requirement. Until the self-serving (for the workers) living witness doctrine is cast aside, the fellowship is not in line with Christ.
|
|
|
Post by blandie on Dec 29, 2013 14:13:50 GMT -5
The workers would have to invent some other reason for people to stay and sacrifice wouldn't they? I think it is OK to believe in an only way but it isn't OK to say that one self appointed group is the only way. If Willie Irvine and co. could find or rediscover the only way without the workers in the 1890s then it doesn't make sense that anyone needs the workers or the meetings at all. If god is powerful enough to bring people to knowledge of what is important then - there is no reason that he cannot bring that knowledge to anyone anywhere and it seems like a mighty weak god and a mighty silly idea that god has to depend on workers who only go out in a certain way and meet only in homes to bring his message.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 29, 2013 16:03:35 GMT -5
The workers would have to invent some other reason for people to stay and sacrifice wouldn't they? I think it is OK to believe in an only way but it isn't OK to say that one self appointed group is the only way. If Willie Irvine and co. could find or rediscover the only way without the workers in the 1890s then it doesn't make sense that anyone needs the workers or the meetings at all. If god is powerful enough to bring people to knowledge of what is important then - there is no reason that he cannot bring that knowledge to anyone anywhere and it seems like a mighty weak god and a mighty silly idea that god has to depend on workers who only go out in a certain way and meet only in homes to bring his message. I agree with this and would take it a step further by saying I don't believe God is limited by only one religion. Because of all the different interpretations of who or what God is, it would make more sense that it is far more likely that God is whoever you think he is. That he wouldn't need to be limited to one definition.
|
|
|
Post by blandie on Dec 29, 2013 16:17:42 GMT -5
I don't think religion has to have anything to do with it at all and the word religion doesn't occur much in the Bible. Religion can be good like the Bible says in James about it is good when it is about helping people and widows and orphans. It can also be bad like it says in the couple of other places it is warned about. I wonder if God doesn't get miffed with all the people trying to make him into something else rather than accepting him as he is - I know my nose gets out of joint when I get wind of people talking behind my back and deciding for themselves to define me and my thots and my intentions out to be something wholly else out of their own imaginations or interpretations or just mean gossip and they won't listen to what I say or write or even let me in on the conversation. Maybe it isn't so much about limiting God to one definition too but just listening and asking for his input without preconceptions or listening to the gossip - no matter from preachers or priests or shamans or workers or that guy in the office who really wants you to know about every little outreach program his group puts on.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 29, 2013 16:51:18 GMT -5
I don't think religion has to have anything to do with it at all and the word religion doesn't occur much in the Bible. Religion can be good like the Bible says in James about it is good when it is about helping people and widows and orphans. It can also be bad like it says in the couple of other places it is warned about. I wonder if God doesn't get miffed with all the people trying to make him into something else rather than accepting him as he is - I know my nose gets out of joint when I get wind of people talking behind my back and deciding for themselves to define me and my thots and my intentions out to be something wholly else out of their own imaginations or interpretations or just mean gossip and they won't listen to what I say or write or even let me in on the conversation. Maybe it isn't so much about limiting God to one definition too but just listening and asking for his input without preconceptions or listening to the gossip - no matter from preachers or priests or shamans or workers or that guy in the office who really wants you to know about every little outreach program his group puts on. Probably an all loving creator type being would just be happy with people trying to connect with it in any way they choose. I agree religion doesn't really define God nor does any one definition. Maybe the definition 'all encompassing' would be a useful definition?
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Dec 29, 2013 17:09:44 GMT -5
The workers would have to invent some other reason for people to stay and sacrifice wouldn't they? I don't think so. Many people enjoy the fellowship and nature of the friends. Many people like the meetings in the home and simple message of reading our bibles and searching things out on our own. Many people love the workers and their ministry. I for one, enjoy all of those things, and it does provide a nice fellowship. However, I cannot condone the aspects of the fellowship that are not scriptural: * requiring a belief in doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ * requiring the workers not to marry * preaching that they (the workers) follow a Matthew 10 type ministry, when in truth they do not even come close to following a Matthew 10 ministry * believing that the 2x2 fellowship is the only "true" Christian fellowship There is MUCH to admire about the 2x2s (workers and friends), and I do, greatly. However, their is much to question as well. BIG things. . . such as: * why do they give up all when they go into the ministry- but TAKE ALL from a saint when the saint dies and leaves their estate to the workers. Does that sound equitable? Not to me. It sounds dishonest- because the workers' do not preach about TAKING ALL when a saint dies. * the workers preach that they are the door to the Shepherd in John 10. As if Jesus couldn't speak directly to any and save them. John 10 is completely perverted in gospel meetings. (I know, I used to preach that from John 10 when I was a worker.) Christ HAS to be the cornerstone for the building to be fitly joined together. The ministry IS the cornerstone of the fellowship. Ask the workers this- can I believe in Christ alone to be saved? Or, must I also believe in the ministry without a home and the church in the home. The workers have made it clear recently by excommunicating some.... we must believe in the ministry and the church in the home- belief in Christ is not the requirement- belief in the workers is- ergo- they are the cornerstone. And not a building fitly joined together as a result.
|
|
|
Post by sunshine on Dec 29, 2013 17:27:28 GMT -5
The workers would have to invent some other reason for people to stay and sacrifice wouldn't they? I don't think so. Many people enjoy the fellowship and nature of the friends. Many people like the meetings in the home and simple message of reading our bibles and searching things out on our own. Many people love the workers and their ministry. I for one, enjoy all of those things, and it does provide a nice fellowship. However, I cannot condone the aspects of the fellowship that are not scriptural: * requiring a belief in doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ * requiring the workers not to marry * preaching that they (the workers) follow a Matthew 10 type ministry, when in truth they do not even come close to following a Matthew 10 ministry * believing that the 2x2 fellowship is the only "true" Christian fellowship There is MUCH to admire about the 2x2s (workers and friends), and I do, greatly. However, their is much to question as well. BIG things. . . such as: * why do they give up all when they go into the ministry- but TAKE ALL from a saint when the saint dies and leaves their estate to the workers. Does that sound equitable? Not to me. It sounds dishonest- because the workers' do not preach about TAKING ALL when a saint dies. * the workers preach that they are the door to the Shepherd in John 10. As if Jesus couldn't speak directly to any and save them. John 10 is completely perverted in gospel meetings. (I know, I used to preach that from John 10 when I was a worker.) Christ HAS to be the cornerstone for the building to be fitly joined together. The ministry IS the cornerstone of the fellowship. Ask the workers this- can I believe in Christ alone to be saved? Or, must I also believe in the ministry without a home and the church in the home. The workers have made it clear recently by excommunicating some.... we must believe in the ministry and the church in the home- belief in Christ is not the requirement- belief in the workers is- ergo- they are the cornerstone. And not a building fitly joined together as a result. I agree with most things you said. I have never heard of someone bequeathing an estate to a worker. Although it must happen since you said so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 18:04:21 GMT -5
I don't think so. Many people enjoy the fellowship and nature of the friends. Many people like the meetings in the home and simple message of reading our bibles and searching things out on our own. Many people love the workers and their ministry. I for one, enjoy all of those things, and it does provide a nice fellowship. However, I cannot condone the aspects of the fellowship that are not scriptural: * requiring a belief in doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ * requiring the workers not to marry * preaching that they (the workers) follow a Matthew 10 type ministry, when in truth they do not even come close to following a Matthew 10 ministry * believing that the 2x2 fellowship is the only "true" Christian fellowship There is MUCH to admire about the 2x2s (workers and friends), and I do, greatly. However, their is much to question as well. BIG things. . . such as: * why do they give up all when they go into the ministry- but TAKE ALL from a saint when the saint dies and leaves their estate to the workers. Does that sound equitable? Not to me. It sounds dishonest- because the workers' do not preach about TAKING ALL when a saint dies. * the workers preach that they are the door to the Shepherd in John 10. As if Jesus couldn't speak directly to any and save them. John 10 is completely perverted in gospel meetings. (I know, I used to preach that from John 10 when I was a worker.) Christ HAS to be the cornerstone for the building to be fitly joined together. The ministry IS the cornerstone of the fellowship. Ask the workers this- can I believe in Christ alone to be saved? Or, must I also believe in the ministry without a home and the church in the home. The workers have made it clear recently by excommunicating some.... we must believe in the ministry and the church in the home- belief in Christ is not the requirement- belief in the workers is- ergo- they are the cornerstone. And not a building fitly joined together as a result. I agree with most things you said. I have never heard of someone bequeathing an estate to a worker. Although it must happen since you said so. Rest assured, it happens a lot. Not that many people leave their whole estate to the ministry, but lots leave substantial amounts. The fact that you haven't heard of it is testimony of the level of secrecy surrounding financial issues. Lots of people haven't heard of it and most of those who have, have no idea what happens to the money once it does land under ministry control.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Dec 29, 2013 18:37:12 GMT -5
The workers would have to invent some other reason for people to stay and sacrifice wouldn't they? I don't think so. Many people enjoy the fellowship and nature of the friends. Many people like the meetings in the home and simple message of reading our bibles and searching things out on our own. Many people love the workers and their ministry. I for one, enjoy all of those things, and it does provide a nice fellowship. However, I cannot condone the aspects of the fellowship that are not scriptural: * requiring a belief in doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ * requiring the workers not to marry * preaching that they (the workers) follow a Matthew 10 type ministry, when in truth they do not even come close to following a Matthew 10 ministry * believing that the 2x2 fellowship is the only "true" Christian fellowship There is MUCH to admire about the 2x2s (workers and friends), and I do, greatly. However, their is much to question as well. BIG things. . . such as: * why do they give up all when they go into the ministry- but TAKE ALL from a saint when the saint dies and leaves their estate to the workers. Does that sound equitable? Not to me. It sounds dishonest- because the workers' do not preach about TAKING ALL when a saint dies. * the workers preach that they are the door to the Shepherd in John 10. As if Jesus couldn't speak directly to any and save them. John 10 is completely perverted in gospel meetings. (I know, I used to preach that from John 10 when I was a worker.) Christ HAS to be the cornerstone for the building to be fitly joined together. The ministry IS the cornerstone of the fellowship. Ask the workers this- can I believe in Christ alone to be saved? Or, must I also believe in the ministry without a home and the church in the home. The workers have made it clear recently by excommunicating some.... we must believe in the ministry and the church in the home- belief in Christ is not the requirement- belief in the workers is- ergo- they are the cornerstone. And not a building fitly joined together as a result. sacerdotal, The "meetings in the home" and simple message of "reading our bibles and searching things out on our own" is all so stylized that you can never express anything that you have "searched out on our own" unless it is totally in line with the very narrow interpretation by the workers!
Will you concede that this is true?
Or are you in a totally different church than the one we call the **TRUTH**?
(I don't like the term "2 by 2's"- because it was given to us as a name by others in a derogatory manner for what we called The Way or The Truth)
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Dec 29, 2013 18:59:54 GMT -5
Yep. The workers encourage the friends to read their bibles, and speak on what they read in meetings- but- as you write- what is spoken HAD BETTER BE in line with what the workers teach. To ask questions like:
"Hmm, some of the apostles were married, why aren't the workers married?" would be severely frowned upon, even though it is true, and the person that asked the question would be labelled pejoratively as "trouble maker" or someone with "shallow understanding" or "unruly" or "not of us" etc. Recent history has shown what happens when one begins to speak of other denominations as perhaps having our brothers and sisters within their midst- excommunication.
|
|
|
Post by gecko45 on Dec 29, 2013 21:21:20 GMT -5
I don't think so. Many people enjoy the fellowship and nature of the friends. Many people like the meetings in the home and simple message of reading our bibles and searching things out on our own. Many people love the workers and their ministry. I for one, enjoy all of those things, and it does provide a nice fellowship. However, I cannot condone the aspects of the fellowship that are not scriptural: * requiring a belief in doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ * requiring the workers not to marry * preaching that they (the workers) follow a Matthew 10 type ministry, when in truth they do not even come close to following a Matthew 10 ministry * believing that the 2x2 fellowship is the only "true" Christian fellowship There is MUCH to admire about the 2x2s (workers and friends), and I do, greatly. However, their is much to question as well. BIG things. . . such as: * why do they give up all when they go into the ministry- but TAKE ALL from a saint when the saint dies and leaves their estate to the workers. Does that sound equitable? Not to me. It sounds dishonest- because the workers' do not preach about TAKING ALL when a saint dies. * the workers preach that they are the door to the Shepherd in John 10. As if Jesus couldn't speak directly to any and save them. John 10 is completely perverted in gospel meetings. (I know, I used to preach that from John 10 when I was a worker.) Christ HAS to be the cornerstone for the building to be fitly joined together. The ministry IS the cornerstone of the fellowship. Ask the workers this- can I believe in Christ alone to be saved? Or, must I also believe in the ministry without a home and the church in the home. The workers have made it clear recently by excommunicating some.... we must believe in the ministry and the church in the home- belief in Christ is not the requirement- belief in the workers is- ergo- they are the cornerstone. And not a building fitly joined together as a result. I agree with most things you said. I have never heard of someone bequeathing an estate to a worker. Although it must happen since you said so. It was news to me that such a practice existed until I my short time in the work. Just some worker talk while driving some endless miles. To be honest I don't know how it works, I suspect that a trusted "elder" would be the holder of a bank account and make the funds available as the workers need it. It would involve all sort of lawyers and inheritance taxes would it not??? For that reason alone I would have doubted such claims until learning otherwise. Seems odd that it is so unknown but then, asking any questions at all, is frowned upon.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Dec 29, 2013 21:29:37 GMT -5
I don't think so. Many people enjoy the fellowship and nature of the friends. Many people like the meetings in the home and simple message of reading our bibles and searching things out on our own. Many people love the workers and their ministry. I for one, enjoy all of those things, and it does provide a nice fellowship. However, I cannot condone the aspects of the fellowship that are not scriptural: * requiring a belief in doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ * requiring the workers not to marry * preaching that they (the workers) follow a Matthew 10 type ministry, when in truth they do not even come close to following a Matthew 10 ministry * believing that the 2x2 fellowship is the only "true" Christian fellowship There is MUCH to admire about the 2x2s (workers and friends), and I do, greatly. However, their is much to question as well. BIG things. . . such as: * why do they give up all when they go into the ministry- but TAKE ALL from a saint when the saint dies and leaves their estate to the workers. Does that sound equitable? Not to me. It sounds dishonest- because the workers' do not preach about TAKING ALL when a saint dies. * the workers preach that they are the door to the Shepherd in John 10. As if Jesus couldn't speak directly to any and save them. John 10 is completely perverted in gospel meetings. (I know, I used to preach that from John 10 when I was a worker.) Christ HAS to be the cornerstone for the building to be fitly joined together. The ministry IS the cornerstone of the fellowship. Ask the workers this- can I believe in Christ alone to be saved? Or, must I also believe in the ministry without a home and the church in the home. The workers have made it clear recently by excommunicating some.... we must believe in the ministry and the church in the home- belief in Christ is not the requirement- belief in the workers is- ergo- they are the cornerstone. And not a building fitly joined together as a result. I agree with most things you said. I have never heard of someone bequeathing an estate to a worker. Although it must happen since you said so. My parents did so I know first hand that they definitely leave estate money to workers and in substantial sums too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 23:23:23 GMT -5
"For human rights to flourish, religious rights have to come second to them. We are all human. We are not all of the same religion, or religious at all. One cannot protect religious rights if they are used as a reason to abuse human rights, human equalities, as so often they are." Deborah Orr- The GuardianExactly. Or as Jesus said, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." Or, even better, "Love your enemies." The 2x2 fellowships cornerstone message is this: "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." None of the other trappings of righteousness mean anything since the central, most unifying belief is not Christ's message- but the message of "Preachers without a home, and a church in a home". To be saved as a 2x2 one must believe in the workers, belief in Jesus is a secondary requirement. Until the self-serving (for the workers) living witness doctrine is cast aside, the fellowship is not in line with Christ. i have never ever known this "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." so to me it's a complete untruth, poppycock and the rest of what you have written does not line up with anything i have just heard at convention these sort of things written like this are lies to me shame on you
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 23:26:27 GMT -5
The workers would have to invent some other reason for people to stay and sacrifice wouldn't they? I don't think so. Many people enjoy the fellowship and nature of the friends. Many people like the meetings in the home and simple message of reading our bibles and searching things out on our own. Many people love the workers and their ministry. I for one, enjoy all of those things, and it does provide a nice fellowship. However, I cannot condone the aspects of the fellowship that are not scriptural: * requiring a belief in doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ * requiring the workers not to marry * preaching that they (the workers) follow a Matthew 10 type ministry, when in truth they do not even come close to following a Matthew 10 ministry * believing that the 2x2 fellowship is the only "true" Christian fellowship There is MUCH to admire about the 2x2s (workers and friends), and I do, greatly. However, their is much to question as well. BIG things. . . such as: * why do they give up all when they go into the ministry- but TAKE ALL from a saint when the saint dies and leaves their estate to the workers. Does that sound equitable? Not to me. It sounds dishonest- because the workers' do not preach about TAKING ALL when a saint dies. * the workers preach that they are the door to the Shepherd in John 10. As if Jesus couldn't speak directly to any and save them. John 10 is completely perverted in gospel meetings. (I know, I used to preach that from John 10 when I was a worker.) Christ HAS to be the cornerstone for the building to be fitly joined together. The ministry IS the cornerstone of the fellowship. Ask the workers this- can I believe in Christ alone to be saved? Or, must I also believe in the ministry without a home and the church in the home. The workers have made it clear recently by excommunicating some.... we must believe in the ministry and the church in the home- belief in Christ is not the requirement- belief in the workers is- ergo- they are the cornerstone. And not a building fitly joined together as a result. what have you done to change these so called wrong things in the fellowship apart from bleat on here
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Dec 29, 2013 23:36:49 GMT -5
"For human rights to flourish, religious rights have to come second to them. We are all human. We are not all of the same religion, or religious at all. One cannot protect religious rights if they are used as a reason to abuse human rights, human equalities, as so often they are." Deborah Orr- The GuardianExactly. Or as Jesus said, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you." Or, even better, "Love your enemies." The 2x2 fellowships cornerstone message is this: "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." None of the other trappings of righteousness mean anything since the central, most unifying belief is not Christ's message- but the message of "Preachers without a home, and a church in a home". To be saved as a 2x2 one must believe in the workers, belief in Jesus is a secondary requirement. Until the self-serving (for the workers) living witness doctrine is cast aside, the fellowship is not in line with Christ. i have never ever known this "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." so to me it's a complete untruth, poppycock and the rest of what you have written does not line up with anything i have just heard at convention these sort of things written like this are lies to me shame on you Virgo, please start a thread and title it the "The Lies told by Sarcerdotal in the 2x2 Doctrine out of line with the Cornerstone Thread" and then kindly point out the lies. I would consider it a kindness. Thanks!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 23:41:14 GMT -5
i have never ever known this "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." so to me it's a complete untruth, poppycock and the rest of what you have written does not line up with anything i have just heard at convention these sort of things written like this are lies to me shame on you Virgo, please start a thread and title it the "The Lies told by Sarcerdotal in the 2x2 Doctrine out of line with the Cornerstone Thread" and then kindly point out the lies. I would consider it a kindness. Thanks! did you write this and do you believe it [[" The 2x2 fellowships cornerstone message is this: "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." None of the other trappings of righteousness mean anything since the central, most unifying belief is not Christ's message- but the message of "Preachers without a home, and a church in a home". To be saved as a 2x2 one must believe in the workers, belief in Jesus is a secondary requirement. Until the self-serving (for the workers) living witness doctrine is cast aside, the fellowship is not in line with Christ.]]
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Dec 29, 2013 23:47:48 GMT -5
Virgo, please start a thread and title it the "The Lies told by Sarcerdotal in the 2x2 Doctrine out of line with the Cornerstone Thread" and then kindly point out the lies. I would consider it a kindness. Thanks! did you write this and do you believe it [[" The 2x2 fellowships cornerstone message is this: "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." None of the other trappings of righteousness mean anything since the central, most unifying belief is not Christ's message- but the message of "Preachers without a home, and a church in a home". To be saved as a 2x2 one must believe in the workers, belief in Jesus is a secondary requirement. Until the self-serving (for the workers) living witness doctrine is cast aside, the fellowship is not in line with Christ.]] Yes. I wrote it, believe it, and once preached it as a worker. Of course, we didn't preach it so bluntly. We were subtle. We didn't just come right out and say, "Hey, morons, we are the only right way. We are God's only true preachers. And if you aren't a member of our fellowship, the chosen few, then you are going to burn in hell with the rest of the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, grandmothers (except for the professing ones that were in good standing with the Lord), Muslims, cartographers (except for the professing ones that were in good standing with the Lord), etc."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2013 23:54:56 GMT -5
did you write this and do you believe it [[" The 2x2 fellowships cornerstone message is this: "We are right, you are wrong- so to hell with you." None of the other trappings of righteousness mean anything since the central, most unifying belief is not Christ's message- but the message of "Preachers without a home, and a church in a home". To be saved as a 2x2 one must believe in the workers, belief in Jesus is a secondary requirement. Until the self-serving (for the workers) living witness doctrine is cast aside, the fellowship is not in line with Christ.]] Yes. I wrote it, believe it, and once preached it as a worker. Of course, we didn't preach it so bluntly. We were subtle. We didn't just come right out and say, "Hey, morons, we are the only right way. We are God's only true preachers. And if you aren't a member of our fellowship, the chosen few, then you are going to burn in hell with the rest of the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, grandmothers (except for the professing ones that were in good standing with the Lord), Muslims, cartographers (except for the professing ones that were in good standing with the Lord), etc." like i posted i have never ever known this so to me it's a load of lies and what i read in notes and hear from workers both national and international do not bear out what you say
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Dec 30, 2013 0:15:27 GMT -5
Yes. I wrote it, believe it, and once preached it as a worker. Of course, we didn't preach it so bluntly. We were subtle. We didn't just come right out and say, "Hey, morons, we are the only right way. We are God's only true preachers. And if you aren't a member of our fellowship, the chosen few, then you are going to burn in hell with the rest of the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, grandmothers (except for the professing ones that were in good standing with the Lord), Muslims, cartographers (except for the professing ones that were in good standing with the Lord), etc." like i posted i have never ever known this so to me it's a load of lies and what i read in notes and hear from workers both national and international do not bear out what you say Uh, ok.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 1:23:48 GMT -5
I agree with most things you said. I have never heard of someone bequeathing an estate to a worker. Although it must happen since you said so. My parents did so I know first hand that they definitely leave estate money to workers and in substantial sums too. An old childless couple in our meeting has made in clear that they will leave their entire estate to the work. We had a sister worker ask us if we were going to leave our estate to the work since we are childless also. The answer to that is 'no.'
|
|
|
Post by biskit on Dec 30, 2013 1:27:08 GMT -5
like i posted i have never ever known this so to me it's a load of lies and what i read in notes and hear from workers both national and international do not bear out what you say Uh, ok. It's not just the workers who imply that following workers and church in the home is the only way to be saved. Recently heard a relative talk about a family friend who is in another christian church. "Very nice person but he is following a false way." So I ask what is the right way? The answer, "Our way". I was brought up with this belief and there was no ambiguity about it. When I was professing myself I questioned what would happen to people who considered themselves christians but weren't "truthers". I was told, "they will get their reward here on earth, we will get our reward in heaven." It was clear that only those who professed through the "truth" workers would have a chance to be saved. Even identifying as a christian was frowned upon when I was growing up. We didn't want to be associated with other christians as they weren't following the truth. Our school had religious classes where local ministers/priests etc gave classes. I was the only one in my class who wasn't allowed to go and had to spend the time in the library. Other christian groups were seen to be dangerous to young "truthee" minds! Has the "truth" changed so much recently? Are there "truthers" who now think that if you believe in Jesus but worship in a different way (not in a home and not professing through homeless preachers) it's ok and all "christian" paths lead to heaven?
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Dec 30, 2013 3:13:05 GMT -5
My parents did so I know first hand that they definitely leave estate money to workers and in substantial sums too. An old childless couple in our meeting has made in clear that they will leave their entire estate to the work. We had a sister worker ask us if we were going to leave our estate to the work since we are childless also. The answer to that is 'no.' I know of one older, wealthy professing woman who passed away, and her non-professing family made sure no money was left to the workers. The only exceptional part was that several friends and the workers had expected for her will to bequeath money to the workers. Somehow, gospel meetings were not held for those non-professing members of the family.
|
|
|
Post by blandie on Dec 30, 2013 4:04:47 GMT -5
Yes people put the workers into their wills and leave all or substantial money and property to the control of their overseer. I know of one property that was got for convention grounds that way and the children - professing and not - left nothing at all. Workers and elders do counsel about leaving a persons estate to help the workers and my family was given written instructions that are very similar to those posted on the TTT site and other sites. Gecko45 has it correct that it goes into the names of elders with instructions that they handle and disburse it according to the overseer's instructions and I think that the overseers would have had their lawyers in each state or province make sure that putting those instructions into a will is watertight according to the local laws and that would explain the slight differences in the instructions from different areas I've seen online. Some people do like the home meetings and that is OK and understandable especially when that is all you've known. I don't see that you need the workers in order to have the home meetings tho. Workers would only be good for preaching to those outside - and they do little of that - or making clear the doctrine/teachings held - and they claim not to have any doctrine/teachings and won't say what they hold as teachings if asked - or So what role are they filling? In the bible the church decides and disciplines not workers and I don't see a lot of examples of the apostles in the bible taking off half the year on convention rounds and speaking once or twice a week the rest of the year or micromanaging peoples lives.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Dec 30, 2013 11:36:38 GMT -5
Has the "truth" changed so much recently? Are there "truthers" who now think that if you believe in Jesus but worship in a different way (not in a home and not professing through homeless preachers) it's ok and all "christian" paths lead to heaven? No, the belief is still the same. The overseer of Texas excommunicated someone for saying that we should consider others, such as Methodists, as brothers and sisters in Christ. The overseer wrote in an email that we must believe in preachers without a home, and meeting in the home. It is amazing to me of how embarrassed many friends are of this belief but that refuse to discuss it with the workers- because they fear excommunication.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 11:49:34 GMT -5
All 14 of my assigned companions at the time, as well as myself, believed as sacerdotal has stated, though like he says, not so blatantly "in your face." However, that IS what the doctrine (teaching) was and I was as guilty as the next in believing it, and promoting it, quite successfully too, for which I AM now ashamed. Even one of those former companions has repented that belief and doctrine. Virgo simply refuses to accept what many of us had been taught since our very conception.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Dec 30, 2013 12:03:12 GMT -5
Virgo simply refuses to accept what many of us had been taught since our very conception. Virgo accepts it, he just doesn't like for the truth to be told and put on a candlestick for all to see.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2013 12:58:20 GMT -5
Yes. I wrote it, believe it, and once preached it as a worker. Of course, we didn't preach it so bluntly. We were subtle. We didn't just come right out and say, "Hey, morons, we are the only right way. We are God's only true preachers. And if you aren't a member of our fellowship, the chosen few, then you are going to burn in hell with the rest of the Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, grandmothers (except for the professing ones that were in good standing with the Lord), Muslims, cartographers (except for the professing ones that were in good standing with the Lord), etc." like i posted i have never ever known this so to me it's a load of lies and what i read in notes and hear from workers both national and international do not bear out what you say Virgo Are you claiming that the Living Witness Doctrine was never part of the doctrine of the 2x2 sect? If not, then what exactly is it that you are claiming? And what is your basis for making such a claim given that sarecdotal's position seems to be one that is recognisable to many here, including me. Matt10
|
|
|
Post by Jason Storebo on Dec 30, 2013 13:44:50 GMT -5
I am the heir to the inheritance placed in the trust of an executor...who seems to be a top elder, and church financial expert. I never professed, but was raised in the 2x2 faith. The will states that I am to come into the full inheritance when my ninety-0ne year old dad passes away, but that if I preceded Dad in death, then it goes to the church.
Although the executor is five years younger than myself, it creates an awkward sort of step dad- step son situation. I subsist on the amount of money that he portions out for monthly living expenses. I subsist on either one meal a day, and/or help from the Salvation Army...he does electronically pay my rent, however, and utilities, at the apt. where I've lived since I vacated the family home so that it could be sold...which it, indeed, has been....by his brother-in-law, who is a realtor, and in whom Dad receives his excellent care through his wife. Now that the house and property have been sold I am quite naturally hoping for a raise in my living standards. Then down-the-road when the tough old Norwegian passes... I get the rest. In the meantime Dad is getting the highest quality care and now his upkeep is guaranteed....right?
|
|