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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2013 18:57:42 GMT -5
David Leitch is the Victoria Australia overseer who dismissed a worker by the name of Steve Schultz. The dismissal was related to Mr. Schultz's persistent concern raised over CSA allegations within the ministry. Concerns were also raised with regard to the usage of church-related funds in a certain matter, also connected to CSA.
If there was ever an example of the lack of moral clarity at the overseer level among the Friends and Workers, this is it. A fine young worker who wants nothing more than a chaste ministry and moral fellowship is caste out of his calling and lifelong commitment. If Mr. Leitch is keeping his own counsel or seeking counsel from others, it is high time he made a major change. He is in the process of destroying the very fellowship he is entrusted to protect by failing to deal with these matters with fairness and any concern for the welfare of vulnerable children and victims of worker-offenders. The overseer of South Australia is complicit in this.
No Australian friend or worker should accept this wrongful judgment for one minute. Australian friends and workers should expect nothing less than fair and moral actions from their overseers.
What can you do? Speak to the offensive overseers and tell them that you will not accept their judgment against Steve Schultz and that you want criminal CSA matters openly dealt with and raised from their current poor standard where they are now to the standard of the world, or better. Speak to other overseers in Australia and New Zealand. Speak to your local workers. Speak to other friends who will speak to local workers and overseers. Mr. Leitch must change his mind and apologize or face a council of Australian/NZ overseer to be overridden.
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Post by sharonw on Jan 17, 2013 19:28:49 GMT -5
David Leitch is the Victoria Australia overseer who dismissed a worker by the name of Steve Schultz. The dismissal was related to Mr. Schultz's persistent concern raised over CSA allegations within the ministry. Concerns were also raised with regard to the usage of church-related funds in a certain matter, also connected to CSA. If there was ever an example of the lack of moral clarity at the overseer level among the Friends and Workers, this is it. A fine young worker who wants nothing more than a chaste ministry and moral fellowship is caste out of his calling and lifelong commitment. If Mr. Leitch is keeping his own counsel or seeking counsel from others, it is high time he made a major change. He is in the process of destroying the very fellowship he is entrusted to protect by failing to deal with these matters with fairness and any concern for the welfare of vulnerable children and victims of worker-offenders. The overseer of South Australia is complicit in this. No Australian friend or worker should accept this wrongful judgment for one minute. Australian friends and workers should expect nothing less than fair and moral actions from their overseers. What can you do? Speak to the offensive overseers and tell them that you will not accept their judgment against Steve Schultz and that you want criminal CSA matters openly dealt with and raised from their current poor standard where they are now to the standard of the world, or better. Speak to other overseers in Australia and New Zealand. Speak to your local workers. Speak to other friends who will speak to local workers and overseers. Mr. Leitch must change his mind and apologize or face a council of Australian/NZ overseer to be overridden. Clearday, as bad as I feel for the expelled young worker, perhaps it IS God who is protecting him because of his zeal for moral truths. That said, it seems that the overseer involved is not any different then the overseer that recently allowed IH to be at conv. and to testify! Why? Most likely that overseer didn't feel he had any room to judge IH harshly for IH says he has repented and we need to forgive him, just like that overseer also has had to repent more then once and has been forgiven by his peer overseers and over-overseer. The overseers that are presently in power in the 2x2 fellowship are very much apt to be found in the same boat as those whom we are calling to be riddened out of the fellowship, though it may not be a crime they've done, but the moral turpitude is the same. I've been very grieved to hear about worker after worker who has had loose morals and are still in the work and most of them in overseer positions. Those overseers who have made judgements against the friends when their own life was in moral disarray! Time to fold it all in, friends and keep you little Sun. a.m. mtgs. for that seems to be what a majority of Christian like and there's nothing wrong with them..... |
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Post by fixit on Jan 17, 2013 19:32:33 GMT -5
Did David Leitch make the right call?
This has divided the friends because many still don't understand that child sexual abuse is a criminal matter and the damage it does to victims is devastating, life changing, life destroying, even life threatening.
The brave soul who reported Ernie Barrie has been vilified within the church.
When David Leitch was told of child sexual abuse accusations against one of his colleagues last week he could have referred it to the police.
Instead, he chose to take an extreme measure to protect his alleged sex offender colleague.
Its scandalous that alleged sex offenders have continued to speak from convention platforms and continue to be welcome in the homes of children.
How did our church stoop to a lower moral standard than the secular society in which we live?
If the Prime Minister knowingly retained a sex offender in cabinet, the public would be outraged.
What an outcry there would be if a fellow cabinet minister reported it to the Prime Minister and was promptly fired from his position!
Workers like to expound from the platform that "God's way is not a democracy".
What they're really saying is "we workers will do whatever we see fit and lesser mortals in the church can do nothing about it".
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Post by aussiesteve on Jan 17, 2013 20:49:44 GMT -5
David Leitch is the Victoria Australia overseer who dismissed a worker by the name of Steve Schultz. The dismissal was related to Mr. Schultz's persistent concern raised over CSA allegations within the ministry. Concerns were also raised with regard to the usage of church-related funds in a certain matter, also connected to CSA. If there was ever an example of the lack of moral clarity at the overseer level among the Friends and Workers, this is it. A fine young worker who wants nothing more than a chaste ministry and moral fellowship is caste out of his calling and lifelong commitment. If Mr. Leitch is keeping his own counsel or seeking counsel from others, it is high time he made a major change. He is in the process of destroying the very fellowship he is entrusted to protect by failing to deal with these matters with fairness and any concern for the welfare of vulnerable children and victims of worker-offenders. The overseer of South Australia is complicit in this. No Australian friend or worker should accept this wrongful judgment for one minute. Australian friends and workers should expect nothing less than fair and moral actions from their overseers. What can you do? Speak to the offensive overseers and tell them that you will not accept their judgment against Steve Schultz and that you want criminal CSA matters openly dealt with and raised from their current poor standard where they are now to the standard of the world, or better. Speak to other overseers in Australia and New Zealand. Speak to your local workers. Speak to other friends who will speak to local workers and overseers. Mr. Leitch must change his mind and apologize or face a council of Australian/NZ overseer to be overridden. Clearday, as bad as I feel for the expelled young worker, perhaps it IS God who is protecting him because of his zeal for moral truths.That said, it seems that the overseer involved is not any different then the overseer that recently allowed IH to be at conv. and to testify! Why? Most likely that overseer didn't feel he had any room to judge IH harshly for IH says he has repented and we need to forgive him, just like that overseer also has had to repent more then once and has been forgiven by his peer overseers and over-overseer. The overseers that are presently in power in the 2x2 fellowship are very much apt to be found in the same boat as those whom we are calling to be riddened out of the fellowship, though it may not be a crime they've done, but the moral turpitude is the same. I've been very grieved to hear about worker after worker who has had loose morals and are still in the work and most of them in overseer positions. Those overseers who have made judgements against the friends when their own life was in moral disarray! Time to fold it all in, friends and keep you little Sun. a.m. mtgs. for that seems to be what a majority of Christian like and there's nothing wrong with them..... Well said SharonW. I agree totally. This was my experience 40 years ago when I was exed from the 2X2's. I was upset at the time but looking back it was one of the greatest blessings in my life. I hope Steve Schultz makes a total break like I did and continues his love for God and morality. |
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Post by aussiesteve on Jan 17, 2013 20:52:38 GMT -5
David Leitch is the Victoria Australia overseer who dismissed a worker by the name of Steve Schultz. The dismissal was related to Mr. Schultz's persistent concern raised over CSA allegations within the ministry. Concerns were also raised with regard to the usage of church-related funds in a certain matter, also connected to CSA. If there was ever an example of the lack of moral clarity at the overseer level among the Friends and Workers, this is it. A fine young worker who wants nothing more than a chaste ministry and moral fellowship is caste out of his calling and lifelong commitment. If Mr. Leitch is keeping his own counsel or seeking counsel from others, it is high time he made a major change. He is in the process of destroying the very fellowship he is entrusted to protect by failing to deal with these matters with fairness and any concern for the welfare of vulnerable children and victims of worker-offenders. The overseer of South Australia is complicit in this. No Australian friend or worker should accept this wrongful judgment for one minute. Australian friends and workers should expect nothing less than fair and moral actions from their overseers. What can you do? Speak to the offensive overseers and tell them that you will not accept their judgment against Steve Schultz and that you want criminal CSA matters openly dealt with and raised from their current poor standard where they are now to the standard of the world, or better. Speak to other overseers in Australia and New Zealand. Speak to your local workers. Speak to other friends who will speak to local workers and overseers. Mr. Leitch must change his mind and apologize or face a council of Australian/NZ overseer to be overridden. Clearday - is this rumor or substantiated? I am wondering because if it is fact (and not just rumor) then I am concerned about an old friend of mine (Bernard Manning) who is currently David's companion in Tasmania this year. For Bernard to be companion to David when he has this lack of moral fiber worries me. |
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Post by fixit on Jan 17, 2013 20:53:50 GMT -5
Well said SharonW. I agree totally. This was my experience 40 years ago when I was exed from the 2X2's. I was upset at the time but looking back it was one of the greatest blessings in my life. I hope Steve Schultz makes a total break like I did and continues his love for God and morality. It bodes ill for the church if the best continue to get pushed out. |
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 17, 2013 21:04:41 GMT -5
Some years ago, an older worker in our field was lamenting about some terrible things happening in the church, but he said ' at least we are not sacrificing children to the gods", like they did years ago," referring to someplace in the Old Testament.
VERY SADLY, the church leadership IS "sacrificing children to the gods", by enabling and protecting CSA , in their group. It is not altogether uncommon in "exclusive" religions to protect the religion and "appearances" ahead of obeying the law , never mind upholding Christ's teachings.
Alvin
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2013 21:10:21 GMT -5
David Leitch is the Victoria Australia overseer who dismissed a worker by the name of Steve Schultz. The dismissal was related to Mr. Schultz's persistent concern raised over CSA allegations within the ministry. Concerns were also raised with regard to the usage of church-related funds in a certain matter, also connected to CSA. If there was ever an example of the lack of moral clarity at the overseer level among the Friends and Workers, this is it. A fine young worker who wants nothing more than a chaste ministry and moral fellowship is caste out of his calling and lifelong commitment. If Mr. Leitch is keeping his own counsel or seeking counsel from others, it is high time he made a major change. He is in the process of destroying the very fellowship he is entrusted to protect by failing to deal with these matters with fairness and any concern for the welfare of vulnerable children and victims of worker-offenders. The overseer of South Australia is complicit in this. No Australian friend or worker should accept this wrongful judgment for one minute. Australian friends and workers should expect nothing less than fair and moral actions from their overseers. What can you do? Speak to the offensive overseers and tell them that you will not accept their judgment against Steve Schultz and that you want criminal CSA matters openly dealt with and raised from their current poor standard where they are now to the standard of the world, or better. Speak to other overseers in Australia and New Zealand. Speak to your local workers. Speak to other friends who will speak to local workers and overseers. Mr. Leitch must change his mind and apologize or face a council of Australian/NZ overseer to be overridden. Clearday - is this rumor or substantiated? I am wondering because if it is fact (and not just rumor) then I am concerned about an old friend of mine (Bernard Manning) who is currently David's companion in Tasmania this year. For Bernard to be companion to David when he has this lack of moral fiber worries me. This comes from multiple reliable sources close to the events. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2013 21:30:57 GMT -5
Some years ago, an older worker in our field was lamenting about some terrible things happening in the church, but he said ' at least we are not sacrificing children to the gods", like they did years ago," referring to someplace in the Old Testament. VERY SADLY, the church leadership IS "sacrificing children to the gods", by enabling and protecting CSA , in their group. It is not altogether uncommon in "exclusive" religions to protect the religion and "appearances" ahead of obeying the law , never mind upholding Christ's teachings. Alvin Alvin What is frightening about that statement is that it is saying "at least we are slightly better than people who murdered their children for religion". Surely we can do better than that. Just a few hours ago I received an email from someone close to us, chronicling this person's childhood of long term systematic abuse from the professing parent (treated well by the non-professing parent) and abusive behaviour by professing young people of the opposite sex. No wonder this person quit professing and will never look at the meetings again. But hey, at least we aren't murdering people for religious reasons!  |
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Post by someguy on Jan 17, 2013 21:37:39 GMT -5
Some years ago, an older worker in our field was lamenting about some terrible things happening in the church, but he said ' at least we are not sacrificing children to the gods", like they did years ago," referring to someplace in the Old Testament. VERY SADLY, the church leadership IS "sacrificing children to the gods", by enabling and protecting CSA , in their group. It is not altogether uncommon in "exclusive" religions to protect the religion and "appearances" ahead of obeying the law , never mind upholding Christ's teachings. Alvin Alvin Wow Alvin, good point and rather sad because you are exactly right. By protecting abusers they are sacrificing their children. |
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Post by someguy on Jan 17, 2013 21:39:02 GMT -5
David Leitch is the Victoria Australia overseer who dismissed a worker by the name of Steve Schultz. The dismissal was related to Mr. Schultz's persistent concern raised over CSA allegations within the ministry. Concerns were also raised with regard to the usage of church-related funds in a certain matter, also connected to CSA. If there was ever an example of the lack of moral clarity at the overseer level among the Friends and Workers, this is it. A fine young worker who wants nothing more than a chaste ministry and moral fellowship is caste out of his calling and lifelong commitment. If Mr. Leitch is keeping his own counsel or seeking counsel from others, it is high time he made a major change. He is in the process of destroying the very fellowship he is entrusted to protect by failing to deal with these matters with fairness and any concern for the welfare of vulnerable children and victims of worker-offenders. The overseer of South Australia is complicit in this. No Australian friend or worker should accept this wrongful judgment for one minute. Australian friends and workers should expect nothing less than fair and moral actions from their overseers. What can you do? Speak to the offensive overseers and tell them that you will not accept their judgment against Steve Schultz and that you want criminal CSA matters openly dealt with and raised from their current poor standard where they are now to the standard of the world, or better. Speak to other overseers in Australia and New Zealand. Speak to your local workers. Speak to other friends who will speak to local workers and overseers. Mr. Leitch must change his mind and apologize or face a council of Australian/NZ overseer to be overridden. Terrible story clearday and mostly exactly as it happened. Outside of someone going to the authorities there is little else that can be done, other than voting with your feet and walking away. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2013 21:47:05 GMT -5
David Leitch is the Victoria Australia overseer who dismissed a worker by the name of Steve Schultz. The dismissal was related to Mr. Schultz's persistent concern raised over CSA allegations within the ministry. Concerns were also raised with regard to the usage of church-related funds in a certain matter, also connected to CSA. If there was ever an example of the lack of moral clarity at the overseer level among the Friends and Workers, this is it. A fine young worker who wants nothing more than a chaste ministry and moral fellowship is caste out of his calling and lifelong commitment. If Mr. Leitch is keeping his own counsel or seeking counsel from others, it is high time he made a major change. He is in the process of destroying the very fellowship he is entrusted to protect by failing to deal with these matters with fairness and any concern for the welfare of vulnerable children and victims of worker-offenders. The overseer of South Australia is complicit in this. No Australian friend or worker should accept this wrongful judgment for one minute. Australian friends and workers should expect nothing less than fair and moral actions from their overseers. What can you do? Speak to the offensive overseers and tell them that you will not accept their judgment against Steve Schultz and that you want criminal CSA matters openly dealt with and raised from their current poor standard where they are now to the standard of the world, or better. Speak to other overseers in Australia and New Zealand. Speak to your local workers. Speak to other friends who will speak to local workers and overseers. Mr. Leitch must change his mind and apologize or face a council of Australian/NZ overseer to be overridden. Terrible story clearday and mostly exactly as it happened. Outside of someone going to the authorities there is little else that can be done, other than voting with your feet and walking away. Let's hope the Aussie friends and workers come together to fix this....there is still time. However, there is more that can be done but it would be best it they worked it out. |
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Post by ScholarGal on Jan 17, 2013 22:11:24 GMT -5
David Leitch is the Victoria Australia overseer who dismissed a worker by the name of Steve Schultz. The dismissal was related to Mr. Schultz's persistent concern raised over CSA allegations within the ministry. Concerns were also raised with regard to the usage of church-related funds in a certain matter, also connected to CSA. As a professing woman from North America, it's fine with me if the friends and workers want to lag 50 years behind society in accepting radio or television use. Responding to CSA is one area where the friends and workers should not lag 50 years behind mainstream society. Reactions to CSA and laws about reporting have definitely changed in the last 25 years. If the workers don't understand this, it's time for them to start reaching out to law enforcement and medical professionals to learn how to handle CSA allegations. If you're a victim, please seek counseling from a professional and report directly to the police rather than taking the matter to the workers. Too many workers are stuck in an old-fashioned and dangerous mindset on this issue. |
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Post by Scott Ross on Jan 18, 2013 0:20:42 GMT -5
David was one of the many overseers and senior workers who were sent the Worker Guidelines written by professing members of his church. These are people who are concerned about the lack of guidelines in regard to CSA issues within the fellowship These guidelines were sent out in November, 2011. With the Royal Commission now looking into how CSA is dealt with among various organizations, perhaps it would be good for David and the other overseers to take the time to review those guidelines. Likewise, it might be good for all other workers and friends to review them as well. WINGS has been following this story about Steve being dismissed since it happened, and has seen how this has generated a lot of concern among the friends and workers over what transpired. Here is a link to those guidelines: sites.google.com/site/csacodeofconduct/homeThis is the thread they were posted on: professing.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wings&action=display&thread=19288 |
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Post by brissiegirl on Jan 18, 2013 0:40:19 GMT -5
Do those workers think we're slow or something? we ladies talk among ourselves and I know I've heard the names of several Vic workers named who are allegedly child abusers. Do Vic friends go along with your overseer letting these suspected predators of children stay preaching, but then sacks a righteous man who dares to raise his concerns? Why aren't all allegations investigated by Police? Even the catholic church is now doing better: www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3671661.htmOur hearts go out to the victims of child sexual abuse. Some members of the church have committed grave sins and some leaders of the church have made grave mistakes. I repeat my profound apology to all victims of child sexual abuse and my continuing commitment to work to bring them justice and healing for their pain.
The Bishop of Armidale Michael Kennedy also unequivocally apologised to victims. He says his predecessor failed to properly investigate and respond to victims and their families. |
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Post by Ju on Jan 18, 2013 1:48:00 GMT -5
Folk in SA and VIC please please make your voices heard... Evil prevails when good men (and women) do nothing.
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Post by Auckland friends on Jan 18, 2013 2:37:27 GMT -5
It is very easy to see that all the friends and workers in Victoria should oppose the actions taken by David Leitch: - Accepting the word of an accused person that 'they didn't do it' without any further enquiry;
- Banishing a worker just because they raised an accusation of CSA and would not accept Mr Leitch's ruling that no action would be taken;
- Allowing a person accused of CSA to continue in the work, and to stay in the homes of friends with young vulnerable children;
- Using church funds to support CSA perpetrators;
However after a moment's reflection it is easy to realise that ALL the friends and workers in Australia should voice their concern about this situation. In fact friends and workers throughout the world should rise up to oppose this shameful situation by saying that we will not keep silent about such appalling behaviour; we will not accept it; and we should demand that our local workers make their position clear so we know whether they stand for the principles that Jesus taught, or not... Overseers throughout the world are now on notice that they are equally accountable for this appalling behaviour UNLESS they take steps to act properly in accordance with the bible, the normal moral standards of our society, and the criminal codes relating to CSA. Overseers have been sent the CSA Code of Conduct which was written by concerned friends; Most will be aware of the sermon by New Zealand worker Graham Thompson which clearly outlined the appropriate steps to take in cases of CSA. Unless they act properly they will be judged by God accordingly, and potentially might also be judged by criminal courts and by the Australian Royal Commission. |
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Post by Auckland friends on Jan 18, 2013 6:05:07 GMT -5
Hi all, Do we have an email address for David Leitch? or Contact number - everyone on this board who has a concern for childrens safety should be calling him. Regards Phillip DL's phone no was included in the 12 June letter to [some] Victorian friends, posted on the Wings forum "Breaking the Silence" wingsbts.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=lounge&action=display&thread=201 |
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Post by fixit on Jan 18, 2013 14:19:23 GMT -5
The letter David Leitch sent out in June last year seems to indicate that he was co-operating with the police at that time.
I wonder what Sergeant Darren Eldridge would feel about David Leitch dismissing Steve Schultz from the work for reporting child sexual abuse in the ministry?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 14:26:26 GMT -5
The letter David Leitch sent out in June last year seems to indicate that he was co-operating with the police at that time. I wonder what Sergeant Darren Eldridge would feel about David Leitch dismissing Steve Schultz from the work for reporting child sexual abuse in the ministry? I wonder what Sergeant Eldridge would think about David Leitch carrying out his own criminal investigation on his own ministry group? In my country, Mr.Leitch would be subject to criminal prosecution for doing that. Wake up Mr. Leitch, the days of workers being policemen, prosecutors and judges are over. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 16:11:07 GMT -5
The letter David Leitch sent out in June last year seems to indicate that he was co-operating with the police at that time. I wonder what Sergeant Darren Eldridge would feel about David Leitch dismissing Steve Schultz from the work for reporting child sexual abuse in the ministry? Is there any way to know if the person accused is still being investigated by the police? Probably not--just wondering. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 16:47:11 GMT -5
I wonder why they allow people here to mention names yet remain anonymous themselves? seems kind of cowardly really
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 17:03:35 GMT -5
I wonder why they allow people here to mention names yet remain anonymous themselves? seems kind of cowardly really It's because the people named here are considered public figures. Their names are on public lists and newspaper advertisements. They preach to the public to invite people to their way. Those public figures are also welcome to come on here anonymously and make brave posts such as yours intended to stifle discussion of very real and important matters that threaten the health and survival of the church. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 17:19:59 GMT -5
Clearday surely you can do better than that?
Maybe you are Mr or Mrs. Clearday? Or maybe Clearday Smith or Clearday Jones? I am sure Jesus didnt do anything anonymously he stood by his word
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 17:25:59 GMT -5
Clearday surely you can do better than that? Maybe you are Mr or Mrs. Clearday? Or maybe Clearday Smith or Clearday Jones? I am sure Jesus didnt do anything anonymously he stood by his word I'm just Clearday. Mr. Clearday is my dad, Mrs.Clearday is my mother. Clearday is my only and real name on this forum. Hope that helps. Jesus specifically and emphatically taught anonymity for doing good things. Would you like me to share the bible quotations on that? |
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Post by Admin on Jan 18, 2013 17:41:36 GMT -5
I wonder why they allow people here to mention names yet remain anonymous themselves? seems kind of cowardly really First, welcome hopwood to TMB. I note your concern. I will copy below something on this issue that I posted previously. It may help clarify things. Previously, it has been accepted practice that names of workers who are listed on worker lists, or who put their name to public letters, are able to be freely discussed openly on TMB. If you or anybody else feels that certain posts or threads are libelous, please don't hesitate to contact myself or one of the moderators. Our aim is for a fellowship of friends and workers that is strong in its commitment to all that Christ upheld. The postings on CSA and how our fellowship is dealing with it is not an easy one for the moderating team to manage. We appreciate all the advice and help we get. This issue of CSA amongst the Workers and Friends is a tough and vexed one for us here trying to administer the TMB forum.
Our commitment with ProBoards is that no libelous posts will be allowed.
I added that this includes posts containing names or initials of living people about whom criminal allegations are made, because it seemed right at the time.
Our absolute standard is no libelous posts.
The defense against libel is truth.
None of us on the admin team are lawyers. We seek advice as appropriate.
In all my time here, I have never witnessed any attack on any worker who is upholding the standard of Christ while preaching the gospel of God as revealed through His word including Christ and the scriptures. In fact, those Workers have been acclaimed by Friends and ex-Friends alike.
The current crisis is not of our making, neither of the admin team or TMB contributors. Responsibility rests with those who have deviated into immorality.
We will clarify the rules once we have the necessary advice. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 17:52:19 GMT -5
Clearday surely you can do better than that? Maybe you are Mr or Mrs. Clearday? Or maybe Clearday Smith or Clearday Jones? I am sure Jesus didnt do anything anonymously he stood by his word hopwood, back in Jesus's time CMA (Child Miracle Abuse) was quite rampant and Jesus tried to keep things quiet and sweep matters under the carpet. www.soppministries.org/index35.htm |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2013 17:53:36 GMT -5
Clearday is that you again as "admin" ?
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