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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 20:04:48 GMT -5
Can't comment too much on "integrity" because I don't know the people, nor their circumstances. But you can discern when someone shows a bad spirit. This is seen in mockery; justification; hate and bitterness. You seem to be able to see clearly all the bad stuff and not any of the good. Is there a reason for that? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 20:06:48 GMT -5
In the Kingdom of Heaven a "bad spirit" is THE crime of the State.
We are told to "discern the spirit."
And we are asked, "what spirit are you?"
Jesus told his disciples they didn't "know what manner of spirit you are of" when they wanted to destroy the Samaritans.
And the things which make for a "bad spirit" are clearly identified in scripture. You know it when you see it.
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Post by Done4now on Jan 19, 2013 20:09:48 GMT -5
In the Kingdom of Heaven a "bad spirit" is THE crime of the State. We are told to "discern the spirit." And we are asked, "what spirit are you?" Jesus told his disciples they didn't "know what manner of spirit you are of" when they wanted to destroy the Samaritans. And the things which make for a "bad spirit" are clearly identified in scripture. You know it when you see it. Aren't we lucky that when Jesus left this earth he appointed YOU as judge over all the rest of us. |
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Post by Gene on Jan 19, 2013 20:13:57 GMT -5
How about it, Bert? Do I show evidence of a bad spirit?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 20:19:29 GMT -5
Gene, no, you make you laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2013 20:21:04 GMT -5
No, we have to do that for ourselves.
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Post by Gene on Jan 19, 2013 20:42:50 GMT -5
Gene, no, you make you laugh ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Thank you. Now I can rest easy tonight. |
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Post by sharonw on Jan 19, 2013 20:55:28 GMT -5
I'm not certain there's a whole lot of difference between an actor and a dancer, but I'm going for dancer for you?  Well, I'm certainly not the baseball player! I felt forced to be in Little League as a kid; that was when I first felt I was a total failure and a genetic freak! Alas, I never learned to dance. It was against our religion. Yes, I understand that! I always have wanted to learn to dance and now I'm too old and too crippled! |
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Post by fixit on Jan 20, 2013 4:41:11 GMT -5
Can't comment too much on "integrity" because I don't know the people, nor their circumstances. But you can discern when someone shows a bad spirit. This is seen in mockery; justification; hate and bitterness. Bert, I guess you'll have to figure out who has the "bad spirit" in this mess. Is it: 1. Steve Schultz for reporting a colleague's child sexual abuse. 2. David Leitch for keeping the colleague on the platform and in children's homes, and firing Steve from the work. 3. The elders, workers and friends who think David Leitch made a bad decision. |
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msew
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Post by msew on Jan 20, 2013 7:34:49 GMT -5
Mockery (often in cartoon form) of others beliefs and justification of your own (often in list form) have clearly been seen from you over many years Bert. I sense a bad spirit.
Thank you Fixit for your unrelenting quest for truth, honesty and integrity in the ministry. I sense a good spirit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 8:43:26 GMT -5
In the Kingdom of Heaven a "bad spirit" is THE crime of the State. We are told to "discern the spirit." And we are asked, "what spirit are you?" Jesus told his disciples they didn't "know what manner of spirit you are of" when they wanted to destroy the Samaritans. And the things which make for a "bad spirit" are clearly identified in scripture. You know it when you see it. Which in real terms means any spirit which does not bow down to, or accept whatever the workers say, even if the workers are clearly wrong. Clearly a bad spirit could well be a non-cultic one and a good spirit a cultic one! |
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aus1
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Post by aus1 on Jan 20, 2013 8:43:33 GMT -5
Am wondering where Allan Kitto stands in all this, he was the overseer that Steve was under in Sth Australia.
He probably had as much (if not more) to do with the decision to remove Steve from the work as David did.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 9:50:19 GMT -5
Am wondering where Allan Kitto stands in all this, he was the overseer that Steve was under in Sth Australia. He probably had as much (if not more) to do with the decision to remove Steve from the work as David did. It is unlikely that Alan Kitto instructed Andew Jubie to drive Steve Schultz out of South Australia for his meeting with David Leitch with the recommendation that Steve be retained in the work. Alan has the power to keep Steve in the work in SA, but he did not, so you could say he was at least consenting to Steve's dismissal. |
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Post by Greg on Jan 20, 2013 10:10:56 GMT -5
Am wondering where Allan Kitto stands in all this, he was the overseer that Steve was under in Sth Australia. He probably had as much (if not more) to do with the decision to remove Steve from the work as David did. I wonder what noels' opinion is. |
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Post by What Hat on Jan 20, 2013 10:18:45 GMT -5
In the Kingdom of Heaven a "bad spirit" is THE crime of the State. We are told to "discern the spirit." And we are asked, "what spirit are you?" Jesus told his disciples they didn't "know what manner of spirit you are of" when they wanted to destroy the Samaritans. And the things which make for a "bad spirit" are clearly identified in scripture. You know it when you see it. I don't think this is correct. I hear that you thought Lance Armstrong was clean. Okay, just kidding. But I do mean to say that evil works are hidden from the light, and are often done deceitfully. Meanwhile, Luke 8 tells us that good men do not hide their light under a bushel. So, it appears that the opposite of what you're saying is actually true. From the viewpoint of the beholder, everyone looks good, and only some are good. We don't always know which. When wrong is uncovered, then we do recognize it, and I think that's what you are saying. |
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Post by What Hat on Jan 20, 2013 10:22:26 GMT -5
Can't comment too much on "integrity" because I don't know the people, nor their circumstances. But you can discern when someone shows a bad spirit. This is seen in mockery; justification; hate and bitterness. Bert, I guess you'll have to figure out who has the "bad spirit" in this mess. Is it: 1. Steve Schultz for reporting a colleague's child sexual abuse. 2. David Leitch for keeping the colleague on the platform and in children's homes, and firing Steve from the work. 3. The elders, workers and friends who think David Leitch made a bad decision. Number 3. That kind of action would give anyone a bad spirit. (Spirit can refer to our own 'life force', or refer to the Holy Spirit which always works to good within us. I could be wrong, but the term 'bad spirit' doesn't specifically refer to anything to do with the Spirit, but more to our own emotional well being. The two concepts are related.) |
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aus1
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Post by aus1 on Jan 20, 2013 10:26:57 GMT -5
[/quote]
It is unlikely that Alan Kitto instructed Andew Jubie to drive Steve Schultz out of South Australia for his meeting with David Leitch with the recommendation that Steve be retained in the work. Alan has the power to keep Steve in the work in SA, but he did not, so you could say he was at least consenting to Steve's dismissal.[/quote]
What is meant by Andrew Jubie driving Steve out of SA?
Was he his last companion?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 10:38:23 GMT -5
What is meant by Andrew Jubie driving Steve out of SA? Was he his last companion? There is no hidden meaning here. Mr.Jubie is the one who was instructed by Alan Kitto to drive Steve Schultz for his dismissal meeting with David Leitch. |
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Post by sharonw on Jan 20, 2013 12:14:45 GMT -5
Am wondering where Allan Kitto stands in all this, he was the overseer that Steve was under in Sth Australia. He probably had as much (if not more) to do with the decision to remove Steve from the work as David did. It is unlikely that Alan Kitto instructed Andew Jubie to drive Steve Schultz out of South Australia for his meeting with David Leitch with the recommendation that Steve be retained in the work. Alan has the power to keep Steve in the work in SA, but he did not, so you could say he was at least consenting to Steve's dismissal. This kind of decision making is the sign of the good ole boy society! The overseers may not actually agree with one another's decisions but they know they have to appear to agree....wasn't that kind of what was said by the workers in the Alberta mess? Cohesion, even if it's against one's own thoughts. As it was, did not Alan send Steve to David L.? So that says to me that Alan has to agree with whatever David L. decided! You can't pass a person on to another overseer unless you're ready to back up what that other overseer does or says. |
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Post by sharonw on Jan 20, 2013 12:18:45 GMT -5
What is meant by Andrew Jubie driving Steve out of SA? Was he his last companion? There is no hidden meaning here. Mr.Jubie is the one who was instructed by Alan Kitto to drive Steve Schultz for his dismissal meeting with David Leitch. Otherwords, Alan didn't have the courage to face up David and Alan already knew that David L. was harboring an alleged offender already....so Alan knew by mental deductions that when SS apprised DL about another alledged abuser that SS would be systemically dismissed. That Alan had NO power over him, once SS spoke to DL..... |
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Post by fixit on Jan 20, 2013 13:29:04 GMT -5
There is no hidden meaning here. Mr.Jubie is the one who was instructed by Alan Kitto to drive Steve Schultz for his dismissal meeting with David Leitch. Alan Kitto's approach to dealing with child sexual abuse in the past has been to hush it up. In the 1990's Alan Kitto was in Coonabarabran having gospel meetings and a young woman, who along with her sisters, had been sexually abused by her professing father for many years went to Alan with the issue. His advice to her was "whatever you do, don't go to the police". She did and her father is still serving time in one of the state's major gaols. Unless Alan has changed, and I doubt it, the direction would likely be "sweep whatever you can under the carpet" to protect the fellowship. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 14:46:54 GMT -5
Because of South Australian law, Alan Kitto was obliged to report the matter to the Police. This is the only action he should have taken.
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Post by happytroll on Jan 20, 2013 15:28:25 GMT -5
Alan has the power to keep Steve in the work in SA, but he did not, so you could say he was at least consenting to Steve's dismissal. As it was, did not Alan send Steve to David L.? Playing out nicely. Is there someone in SA who can report this to the SA police (mandated reporters and all that). With the Royal Commission about to start examining all these things, it is likely the police will want to take these matters seriously  |
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Post by Grant on Jan 20, 2013 15:40:34 GMT -5
Am wondering where Allan Kitto stands in all this, he was the overseer that Steve was under in Sth Australia. He probably had as much (if not more) to do with the decision to remove Steve from the work as David did. I wonder what noels' opinion is. I think noels is somewhere between New Zealand and Bangladesh. He earned his wings by keeping off this board. |
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Post by fixit on Jan 20, 2013 15:46:16 GMT -5
Because of South Australian law, Alan Kitto was obliged to report the matter to the Police. This is the only action he should have taken. It seems the offenses were reported to Alan Kitto in Coonabarabran, so I presume New South Wales law would apply. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 16:01:41 GMT -5
No fixit, the Coonabarabran event was some time ago. The SA event was recent. Two seperate events. Alan Kitto is now overseer in SA not NSW.
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Post by landdownunder on Jan 20, 2013 16:20:13 GMT -5
6 On hearing this, Pilate asked if the man was a Galilean. 7 When he learned that Jesus was under Herod’s jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who was also in Jerusalem at that time.Playing out nicely. Is poor worker Steve about to be crucified  Have some of our workers deviated so greatly, they fail to understand that the first requirement of Christian ministry is to be upholding the standard of Christ morally and ethically, to the best of our ability? Simply having method (going out 2 by 2) does not then give them licence to behave as they are. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2013 16:43:05 GMT -5
Pilate was not bound by SA law, Alan Kitto was, and as overseer should be aware of that.
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