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Post by JO on Aug 9, 2012 17:17:40 GMT -5
JO, I think you're mistaken about the workers not being able to excommunicate people, for even in the Alberta tapes it WAS the workers who were excommunicating people. Every dictator is powerless without the support of others around him. The true friends of dictatorial workers are those who question their actions. The true supporters of God's kingdom are those who reject ungodly behavior, no matter where it comes from. |
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Post by snow on Aug 9, 2012 18:14:22 GMT -5
My question is this. Why would anyone want to be part of an organization anyway after finding out there was such a thing as excommunication? I would be leaving so fast if someone told me to not have anything to do with my friends and family. It's so totally manipulative and I feel so bad for those left inside and have to make that kind of decision.  Every organization has procedures in place to remove members. I suppose in some sense, every organization is a cult, although most are benign. So from that point of view, 2x2 excommunication is ordinary practice. Where 2x2 excommunication gets really ugly is when you combine it with the idea that if you are sent outside the group, you are headed for a painful and eternal hell. That's nasty stuff. Yes CD thank you for pointing that out. Most organizations do. I just didn't ever think churches should though I knew the RC's do. I never dreamed the 2x2's did it until I read about the AB fiasco a couple years ago. It is nasty when you combine the eternal damnation with it. So sad. |
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Post by snow on Aug 9, 2012 18:18:16 GMT -5
JO, I think you're mistaken about the workers not being able to excommunicate people, for even in the Alberta tapes it WAS the workers who were excommunicating people. Every dictator is powerless without the support of others around him. The true friends of dictatorial workers are those who question their actions. The true supporters of God's kingdom are those who reject ungodly behavior, no matter where it comes from. While of course you are right, it is so extremely hard to do. Especially when you are threatened with never having your family talk to you again if you leave. That is what happened to a family in AB I was talking to. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2012 19:26:49 GMT -5
Every organization has procedures in place to remove members. I suppose in some sense, every organization is a cult, although most are benign. So from that point of view, 2x2 excommunication is ordinary practice. Where 2x2 excommunication gets really ugly is when you combine it with the idea that if you are sent outside the group, you are headed for a painful and eternal hell. That's nasty stuff. Yes CD thank you for pointing that out. Most organizations do. I just didn't ever think churches should though I knew the RC's do. I never dreamed the 2x2's did it until I read about the AB fiasco a couple years ago. It is nasty when you combine the eternal damnation with it. So sad. A decade or so ago, I asked around of some other non-RCC churches on this issue. They all indicated that it was possible for them to remove someone from the church. That said, most had little or no experience with it. One church board member I asked mentioned that the only one which occurred in his decades in that church was a man who was deliberately angering his wife by dating other women and not acknowledging anything wrong with it. The church began its work to reconcile the couple into committed relationship but the husband would not acknowledge wrong. Eventually the matter went before the whole church who then removed him from the congregation and told him to find somewhere else to worship. Even then, they didn't condemn him to hell. That is still quite different from the experience of someone kicked out of The Only Way. |
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Post by bfvernon on Aug 9, 2012 20:50:00 GMT -5
EXACTLY
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Post by rational on Aug 10, 2012 12:28:17 GMT -5
Workers can't excommunicate people. According to the definition of excommunicate they certainly can, assuming you believe they are 'running' the church. excommunicate1. To deprive of the right of church membership by ecclesiastical authority.
2. To exclude by or as if by decree from membership or participation in a group.
Their group - their rules. The RCC even extends it a bit further! |
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Post by snow on Aug 10, 2012 15:02:31 GMT -5
Workers can't excommunicate people. According to the definition of excommunicate they certainly can, assuming you believe they are 'running' the church. excommunicate1. To deprive of the right of church membership by ecclesiastical authority.
2. To exclude by or as if by decree from membership or participation in a group.
Their group - their rules. The RCC even extends it a bit further! However, if everyone in the organization didn't listen to the priests, workers or whomever, there would be no use excommunicating anyone. Or, if everyone left because of the excommunication it would leave the organization without members which would defeat the purpose. We allow these things to be done to us by our leaders because we haven't figured it out yet. There is power in unity. Legally they can excommunicate. Practically, the members still hold the final vote in how they react to that excommunication. |
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Post by Ms feud on Aug 14, 2012 6:49:08 GMT -5
Has anybody noticed the family feuding being played out on Wings forum? Like to know who all the players are and who's leaning which way. Make good pantomime  |
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Post by sharonw on Aug 14, 2012 8:32:36 GMT -5
That's why it's a cult. Members give their personal power to a PERCEIVED higher authority. Ask people who have been excommunicated - they'll tell you that their families and the elders of their churches were too afraid to accept them as not excommunicated. That's why it's a cult. Covering up indiscretions is also aa attributes of a cult. If anything can't stand up to scrutiny it has flaws in it's foundations. The foundations of the 2x2s ....... My question is this. Why would anyone want to be part of an organization anyway after finding out there was such a thing as excommunication? I would be leaving so fast if someone told me to not have anything to do with my friends and family. It's so totally manipulative and I feel so bad for those left inside and have to make that kind of decision. Snow, when someone decides to discharge themselves from the fellowship due to excommunications, then those that remain behind speak to them that excommunications are "rarely happening". It's just that people get control of other people and they "think" they can treat them any way that pleases them and when someone questions that authority, then they are excommunicated for the questioning of the workers in power. I think it is very very hard for people to understand that they are under the power of the workers because it is put in just phases as that the workers are doing exactly what God is giving them full authority to do. It's kind of ironic and funny actually.....here we have a majority of a group denying Jesus' status as being part of God, but then they turn around and want to use the power that Jesus had while on earth..... |
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Post by Brianna on Aug 14, 2012 21:48:17 GMT -5
Has anybody noticed the family feuding being played out on Wings forum? Like to know who all the players are and who's leaning which way. Make good pantomime OK Ms feud I cant see anything funny at all on wings. Weary traveller has enough worries without someone poking fun. What with threats of libel, this thread has just about turned into something else anyway. Anyway "the person" obviously has problems - cant work out what is appropriate and not appropriate regarding children.  He obvoiusly needs lots more treatment!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2012 6:54:33 GMT -5
Well Jesus most probably wasn't even interested in what Satan offered Him - all the kingdoms, etc., He had come from the glory of heaven, and He knew He would be going back there when it was finished Funny - I don't remember hearing about the glory of heaven when I went to meetings .....You sang it in gospel meetings. "From Heaven's Glory", Hymn #20 |
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Post by JO on Aug 15, 2012 17:12:02 GMT -5
Sharon, what do you think of the following scripture? ...................... ........................ .............................. ...................... John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. Does this also mean for someone to be sexually abused??? Is this how the 2x2's think? Jesus would be disgusted with those who sexually abuse and those who cover up or make excuses. Sexual abuse is quite the opposite of the works of Jesus. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2012 23:13:26 GMT -5
This thread has got a way off topic. It is not about God or Satan. If you intellectual types want to have a debate, why don't you start a separate debate thread and go for it. That way the rest of us dumb types will not get bored reading it.
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Post by mod5 on Aug 16, 2012 6:15:16 GMT -5
This thread has got a way off topic. It is not about God or Satan. If you intellectual types want to have a debate, why don't you start a separate debate thread and go for it. That way the rest of us dumb types will not get bored reading it. I agree Redback and have moved these posts to a new thread on the main board called "God & Satan" Mod5 |
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Post by JO on Aug 20, 2012 19:06:30 GMT -5
Anyway "the person" obviously has problems - cant work out what is appropriate and not appropriate regarding children. He obvoiusly needs lots more treatment!!!!!!!!! Frankly, the whole fellowship needs to make a stand regarding what is appropriate and not appropriate regarding children. Its sad that friends and workers are so unsupportive of sexual abuse victims and so reluctant to flush out the sexual predators. |
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Post by Never Never TAS on Aug 21, 2012 5:34:09 GMT -5
You think that it will never happen to you. My child has told me that she had been sexually abused by another. The appropriate people have been contacted, Child protection, police. I just can't believe that this is an ongoing issue. It is only a matter of time before the media gets involved! When are people going to see what a sham the so called truth is?
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Post by WINGS unlogged on Aug 21, 2012 5:53:43 GMT -5
You think that it will never happen to you. My child has told me that she had been sexually abused by another. The appropriate people have been contacted, Child protection, police. I just can't believe that this is an ongoing issue. It is only a matter of time before the media gets involved! When are people going to see what a sham the so called truth is? So, so sorry to hear this. Give your child all the love you can, and then some. You and your child will be in many of our prayers. Assure her that she is in absolutely no way to blame, she must carry no guilt. The person who did this is totally guilty before Tasmanian law and before God. Assure your child that God is not like that. Was it a worker? You might contact Scott Ross the administrator of WINGS: bescottross@aol.com We on WINGS are working tirelessly to achieve what JO has expressed so well in the post above. wingsbts.proboards.com/index.cgiThere are more and more good workers supporting us in our aims. WINGS admin |
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Post by emmarr75 on Aug 21, 2012 20:11:36 GMT -5
Sorry to hear Never Never Tas.
So glad that you have chosen to alert authorities. Just like to echo wings unlogged words - assure her that she is not in the wrong and that she has shown true courage in letting you know what has happened to her.
My prayers are with you all.
Emma
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Post by JO on Aug 21, 2012 20:28:25 GMT -5
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Post by snow on Aug 22, 2012 13:28:17 GMT -5
Yes, that is an interesting statement. It's almost like he blames what he did on some kind of an 'evil possession'. Or he is a determinist that does not believe that we have free will and those were the cards he was dealt and he could do nothing to change it. |
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Post by JO on Aug 22, 2012 15:18:35 GMT -5
It would be better if these "unwilling hosts of a terrible disorder" would seek help for their problem before they get caught up with by the authorities. Better still, before they ruin the lives of their victims. Sadly, the school was warned about this guy but didn't act. ............................. ............................ ........................... ............ The lawyer for a Northland teacher who admits sexually abusing boys in his care says the school he worked at did nothing about a police warning not to trust him alone with pupils. James Robertson Parker, the deputy principal of Pamapuria Primary School, pleaded guilty in the Kaitaia District Court on Wednesday to 49 charges of indecent assault and unlawful sexual connection involving a dozen boys aged 11 to 13. Suppression orders on Parker's name and occupation expired on Wednesday and he has been remanded in custody until 15 November for sentencing. His lawyer, Alex Witten-Hannah, says police had a tentative complaint about Parker's behaviour in 2009 and wrote the school a strongly-worded letter warning that he should not be allowed to have children to stay at his home. Mr Witten-Hannah says the school did nothing constructive. Parker continued to take pupils home and most of his offending happened after the police warning. He says the school's response - or lack of it - beggars belief. The former chair of the school's board of trustees says he knew nothing about police warnings about Parker - but a raft of others did. Ian Bamber says he only learned of the letter earlier this year and subsequently discovered that many others already knew about it - including the New Zealand School Trustees Association, the Education Review Office, Child, Youth and Family and the school board at the time. Mr Bamber says the one person who does not seem to have been warned off by police was Parker. The Ministry of Education has since replaced the Pamapuria Primary School board of trustees with a commissioner. www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/113931/lawyer-says-school-ignored-warning-over-teacher |
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Post by Greg on Aug 22, 2012 17:58:21 GMT -5
Yes, that is an interesting statement. It's almost like he blames what he did on some kind of an 'evil possession'. Or he is a determinist that does not believe that we have free will and those were the cards he was dealt and he could do nothing to change it. I think our personalities, our mental capabilities, and even our morality differ as much has our physical traits (height and weight, hair and eye color, other). I think as individuals we can only be just so smart, so capable, so strong, so artistic, and so good. One person likes cabbage and another does not. One person laughs at a certain joke and another does not. One person enjoys beer to a limited extent, another has no limit, and yet another has no desire for beer. Why? Choice or some neurological system? |
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Post by snow on Aug 22, 2012 18:34:58 GMT -5
Yes, that is an interesting statement. It's almost like he blames what he did on some kind of an 'evil possession'. Or he is a determinist that does not believe that we have free will and those were the cards he was dealt and he could do nothing to change it. I think our personalities, our mental capabilities, and even our morality differ as much has our physical traits (height and weight, hair and eye color, other). I think as individuals we can only be just so smart, so capable, so strong, so artistic, and so good. One person likes cabbage and another does not. One person laughs at a certain joke and another does not. One person enjoys beer to a limited extent, another has no limit, and yet another has no desire for beer. Why? Choice or some neurological system? Greg don't want to hijack the thread so will give you a link I watched. It's along these lines of thought. I found it hard to agree with in places, but it did make me think. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g&feature=fvwrel |
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