|
|
Post by noellaalan on Jun 6, 2012 16:08:08 GMT -5
amazing
|
|
|
|
Post by SharonArnold on Jun 6, 2012 16:27:35 GMT -5
For some reason I'm not getting the 'warm-fuzzy' feeling about this development that I think I should. I'd feel a lot better, I believe, if there were some "teeth" included to make things happen. But that's just me. Sorry, not to rain on anyone's parade! And I truly hope this will as a catalyst to speed the turn-around. I work as a computer software developer and I really pay attention to “warm-fuzzies”. In general, if people get the warm-fuzzies, it means we have nailed it; if they don’t, it means we don’t quite have it yet. It was a good sermon, masterfully crafted. The first question in my mind when I read it was - who is the head dude of New Zealand? From what I have read further, I am assuming that Alan R is, not Graham Thompson? That might be part of your lack of the warm-fuzzies. It leaves lots of wiggle-room for the management, if it is not well-received by the other franchise heads from around the world. Nevertheless, it was an iconic moment. The image that came to my mind was Yeltsin climbing on to the tank in the August Coup. If noels’ participation on this board has helped result in the crafting/delivery of that sermon, then I gladly surrender the negative judgements I have had towards him. I hope that others in positions of influence around the world have the moral clarity and intestinal fortitude to meet GT there. If they love the fellowship, they will. If they have other interests to protect, they won’t. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 18:25:20 GMT -5
For some reason I'm not getting the 'warm-fuzzy' feeling about this development that I think I should. I'd feel a lot better, I believe, if there were some "teeth" included to make things happen. But that's just me. Sorry, not to rain on anyone's parade! And I truly hope this will as a catalyst to speed the turn-around. Your radar is good. GT does not represent the upper echelons of the worker hierarchy. Quite the opposite, he is outside of the hierarchical system as much as possible so you could call him an Independent to a large degree. It is that independence that gave him the freedom to speak but it does not, as yet, represent a broad change. By all reports so far, this sermon has been well distributed and well received around the globe (even though it is only a few days old!) That may, as you say, be a catalyst for more workers and elders to speak more freely on this subject as there is really very little in the sermon that any reasonable person could disagree with. It can be a nice starting point, even a template, for others. |
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 6, 2012 21:51:10 GMT -5
Alan is a very smart man  You didn't answer my questions kiwi  What does Alan being "smart" have to do with it I have no doubt that Graham was used by God to deliver this sermon and I admire his courage in obeying the prompting of the Spirit. I answered the second part ;D with Alan is a very smart man. And you might have to answer Alan for the first part |
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 6, 2012 21:56:48 GMT -5
kiwi Lets cut to the chase. This was not handled immediately. One of the guys has been abusing since the 1970's or earlier. Im sure the workers are aware over the yrs of other complaints and cases of this nature. If you want to talk biblically, Alan is the one who should have delt with it publicly. He is the overseer. Head sherang. I would tell him this to his face too. I am glad that something has been done. Im thinking of the victims and how they feel. Great that you can sit there in your great ivory seat and pontificate about what others should, shouldn't,have and haven't done. How about you go and tell it to his face then  If you were thinking of the victims and how they feel you might spend more time on your knees to God about them than blathering about it here, it would certainly have more profit for the ones you feel about. |
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 6, 2012 22:06:12 GMT -5
spiders
Kiwi wouldnt know unless someone told him. I would think Alan would have been there, Id be surprised if he wasnt. Bet it created a hive of buzzing over the lunch break.. I did have a list of who went where but I can't find it but I doubt that Alan was there more likely in Auckland. |
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 6, 2012 22:08:06 GMT -5
Do you really think that's how it works? Actually I know that is how it has worked. If it always works like that I don't know, but certainly people have been instructed to preach on certain things. So in your mind God is not in the picture? |
|
|
|
Post by lazarus66 on Jun 6, 2012 22:08:29 GMT -5
Kiwi, I have often wondered about your mental state. Knowing that you are a firm "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" follower of this cult, you really amaze me.
Perhaps people were afraid to "get on their knees" for fear of the predators. It would be like you saying, "Yeah, just drop you soap in the shower, in prison"
You truly amaze me. I really do feel so sorry for you, a hope you get your eyes opened some day. We will be waiting for you, and in time, you will make it. In the meantime, give more thought to both sides of the coin.
Your, brother in Christ, whether or not you recognize me as that,.....................Dale
|
|
|
|
Post by emy on Jun 6, 2012 22:11:59 GMT -5
Actually I know that is how it has worked. If it always works like that I don't know, but certainly people have been instructed to preach on certain things. Umm, well, "asked" or "suggested".....gotta get the language right someguy!  Has either of you had this experience? having anyone ask you to speak in meeting about a certain topic? |
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 6, 2012 22:16:08 GMT -5
For some reason I'm not getting the 'warm-fuzzy' feeling about this development that I think I should. I'd feel a lot better, I believe, if there were some "teeth" included to make things happen. But that's just me. Sorry, not to rain on anyone's parade! And I truly hope this will as a catalyst to speed the turn-around. Your radar is good. GT does not represent the upper echelons of the worker hierarchy. Quite the opposite, he is outside of the hierarchical system as much as possible so you could call him an Independent to a large degree. It is that independence that gave him the freedom to speak but it does not, as yet, represent a broad change. By all reports so far, this sermon has been well distributed and well received around the globe (even though it is only a few days old!) That may, as you say, be a catalyst for more workers and elders to speak more freely on this subject as there is really very little in the sermon that any reasonable person could disagree with. It can be a nice starting point, even a template, for others. Do you know Graham? Do you know how he is seen here? And you are quite wrong to think that he is any independent in this fellowship, he is very much one of us as we are of him. |
|
aus1
Junior Member
Posts: 68 
|
Post by aus1 on Jun 6, 2012 22:22:28 GMT -5
I wonder if Graham will get invited to Australian conventions this year?!
|
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 6, 2012 22:28:35 GMT -5
Kiwi, I have often wondered about your mental state. Knowing that you are a firm "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" follower of this cult, you really amaze me. Be amazed sunny ;D and keepa wondering at least it will give something to do And just for your info charlie brown I myself have been a recipient of such evil, so when you have been what I have been through then you might have a little license to make such inane comments. And you wonder about my mental state  In no way do I want to be where you will be waiting I will that to you to ponder on that, but I know Jesus wouldn't write on a message about what might be thought someones mental state. |
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 6, 2012 22:33:48 GMT -5
I wonder if Graham will get invited to Australian conventions this year?! You'll have to wait and see. |
|
|
|
Post by lazarus66 on Jun 6, 2012 22:57:15 GMT -5
Kiwi, I guess that I am reading wrong when Jesus, Himself, encountered the mad man in chains.
Sorry, can you copy and paste that account from your bible for me. Mine is that dumb old King James one, and I know it has a lot of really messed up messages in it, according to the 2x2's
I know you don't want to be where I am, but I still have hope for you.
You can't fight someone loving you, in spite of the fact that you can be quite unlovable.
Sorry, mate, but I still think you will make it............
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 0:16:48 GMT -5
Your radar is good. GT does not represent the upper echelons of the worker hierarchy. Quite the opposite, he is outside of the hierarchical system as much as possible so you could call him an Independent to a large degree. It is that independence that gave him the freedom to speak but it does not, as yet, represent a broad change. By all reports so far, this sermon has been well distributed and well received around the globe (even though it is only a few days old!) That may, as you say, be a catalyst for more workers and elders to speak more freely on this subject as there is really very little in the sermon that any reasonable person could disagree with. It can be a nice starting point, even a template, for others. Do you know Graham? Do you know how he is seen here? And you are quite wrong to think that he is any independent in this fellowship, he is very much one of us as we are of him. I stand by my opinion firmly with reason. And yes, I have met Graham. |
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 7, 2012 2:11:52 GMT -5
Do you know Graham? Do you know how he is seen here? And you are quite wrong to think that he is any independent in this fellowship, he is very much one of us as we are of him. I stand by my opinion firmly with reason. And yes, I have met Graham. Well I grew up with him and I know he don't work as an independant. |
|
|
|
Post by davenz on Jun 7, 2012 2:45:12 GMT -5
kiwi - Growing up with someone is no grounds for making a call on how someone acts or thinks in adult life.
How often do you hear people say of someone " oh he would never do that - I know him so well" Now they normally say that defending a negative situation.
In GT's case I believe he has done an admirable thing and is very much an independent.
I know of things that GT has seen and dealt with that you are not aware of. Things that would certainly make your nostrils twitch like a squirrel up a drain pipe.
At some point you need to accept that there are many folk in your fellowship who are not all of exactly the same view. Some hold independent viewpoints. I would say that from what I read on TMB, noels, clearday, JO and others are "independent" of the mainstream thinking.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Sargison on Jun 7, 2012 4:19:33 GMT -5
GT - - Grande Tourismo! This is a sermon with cojons.
I'm thinking I might go back to meeting.
Whatever the conjecture on GT's hierarchical status or his relationship with AR, I'm certain AR would approve of his text.
Actually I think GT's use of phrase is appropriate and wise given the nature of the forum.
It wasn't necessary for him to spell out the gory details or give the class an hour of sex education.
He's speaking directly to adults here.
Mums and dads are there to fill in the gaps.
With the 'health' education ensconced in the school curriculum in this country kids know more about the ins and outs of throwing on a condom than I do.
Safety and stranger danger is dealt with a lot in junior school here and really, there is some sheit kids just can hear too much about.
|
|
|
|
Post by kiwi on Jun 7, 2012 4:19:43 GMT -5
kiwi - Growing up with someone is no grounds for making a call on how someone acts or thinks in adult life. How often do you hear people say of someone " oh he would never do that - I know him so well" Now they normally say that defending a negative situation. In GT's case I believe he has done an admirable thing and is very much an independent. I know of things that GT has seen and dealt with that you are not aware of. Things that would certainly make your nostrils twitch like a squirrel up a drain pipe. At some point you need to accept that there are many folk in your fellowship who are not all of exactly the same view. Some hold independent viewpoints. I would say that from what I read on TMB, noels, clearday, JO and others are "independent" of the mainstream thinking. Actually noels and I are very much on the same page |
|
|
|
Post by Rob Sargison on Jun 7, 2012 4:21:10 GMT -5
kiwi - Growing up with someone is no grounds for making a call on how someone acts or thinks in adult life. How often do you hear people say of someone " oh he would never do that - I know him so well" Now they normally say that defending a negative situation. In GT's case I believe he has done an admirable thing and is very much an independent. I know of things that GT has seen and dealt with that you are not aware of. Things that would certainly make your nostrils twitch like a squirrel up a drain pipe. At some point you need to accept that there are many folk in your fellowship who are not all of exactly the same view. Some hold independent viewpoints. I would say that from what I read on TMB, noels, clearday, JO and others are "independent" of the mainstream thinking. Actually noels and I are very much on the same page kiwi. I don't see noels on this page at all. |
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jun 7, 2012 5:31:40 GMT -5
Your radar is good. GT does not represent the upper echelons of the worker hierarchy. Quite the opposite, he is outside of the hierarchical system as much as possible so you could call him an Independent to a large degree. It is that independence that gave him the freedom to speak but it does not, as yet, represent a broad change. By all reports so far, this sermon has been well distributed and well received around the globe (even though it is only a few days old!) That may, as you say, be a catalyst for more workers and elders to speak more freely on this subject as there is really very little in the sermon that any reasonable person could disagree with. It can be a nice starting point, even a template, for others. Do you know Graham? Do you know how he is seen here? And you are quite wrong to think that he is any independent in this fellowship, he is very much one of us as we are of him. Aren't the other workers trying to get Alan R out and put Graham T in his place? This was before Mondays sermon on CSA. |
|
|
|
Post by spiders on Jun 7, 2012 5:49:40 GMT -5
I wonder if Graham will get invited to Australian conventions this year?! I doubt it! The overseer for Vic/Tas would never invite a worker from NZ to tell us how to do anything, let alone how to handle CSA. (especially after GT criticized how it has been handled by the workers in Vic/Tas) |
|
|
|
Post by DumSpiroSpero on Jun 7, 2012 7:19:24 GMT -5
Refreshing to hear! Legality and Morality instead of legalism... A helpful and contemporary sermon
Kiwi, what was the gist of the sermon on marriage? Interested to know...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 7:25:08 GMT -5
Umm, well, "asked" or "suggested".....gotta get the language right someguy! Has either of you had this experience? having anyone ask you to speak in meeting about a certain topic? I don't preach. Friends don't preach. Friends aren't told what to preach. Perhaps it's not like that where you are. That said, yes, my testimony has been seriously tampered with at least twice. Once, I was banned from speaking about love in meeting. Another time more recently I was told I was speaking of Christ too much. Workers I know personally have stated that they have had "suggestions" as to what topic to speak on in convention rounds. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 7:26:35 GMT -5
I stand by my opinion firmly with reason. And yes, I have met Graham. Well I grew up with him and I know he don't work as an independant. What do you mean by "work as an independent"? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 7:29:45 GMT -5
Do you know Graham? Do you know how he is seen here? And you are quite wrong to think that he is any independent in this fellowship, he is very much one of us as we are of him. Aren't the other workers trying to get Alan R out and put Graham T in his place? This was before Mondays sermon on CSA. If the NZ workers were successful in getting AlanR to retire from overseership, GrahamT would not accept the position. |
|
|
|
Post by someguy on Jun 7, 2012 8:24:34 GMT -5
Has either of you had this experience? having anyone ask you to speak in meeting about a certain topic? I don't preach. Friends don't preach. Friends aren't told what to preach. Perhaps it's not like that where you are. That said, yes, my testimony has been seriously tampered with at least twice. Once, I was banned from speaking about love in meeting. Another time more recently I was told I was speaking of Christ too much. Workers I know personally have stated that they have had "suggestions" as to what topic to speak on in convention rounds. you too eh? I have had my testimony "corrected" by the elder who didn't agree with my quoting of a worker. After the meeting I asked him what that was about and he told me he knew what I meant and agreed but didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea.?? I also have friends who are workers who have told me of strong "suggestions" to preach on certain subjects. |
|
|
|
Post by Scott Ross on Jun 7, 2012 8:31:05 GMT -5
kiwi - Growing up with someone is no grounds for making a call on how someone acts or thinks in adult life. How often do you hear people say of someone " oh he would never do that - I know him so well" Now they normally say that defending a negative situation. In GT's case I believe he has done an admirable thing and is very much an independent. I know of things that GT has seen and dealt with that you are not aware of. Things that would certainly make your nostrils twitch like a squirrel up a drain pipe. At some point you need to accept that there are many folk in your fellowship who are not all of exactly the same view. Some hold independent viewpoints. I would say that from what I read on TMB, noels, clearday, JO and others are "independent" of the mainstream thinking. FINALLY...... someone that speakamylanguage is on the board.....  I recently told someone about putting in a fan in the ceiling of one of our bathrooms, and mentioned how I was up there 'all hunkered up like a constipated coyote', and they gave me a funny look. I thought it described the look of an old guy balancing on and between scissor trusses rather well.........  |
|
