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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 17:29:27 GMT -5
It is called Sexual abuse of children. Spell it out!! There is nothing wrong with calling it what it is. GT's message was ground breaking enough for me to not be concerned about the omission of the word "sexual". Its not a word that is used in meetings, probably because most people use the antiquated King James Version of the bible. I agree. It doesn't change the substance of the message but it is true that it may not have been understood by pre-school children. Hopefully the parents will now take steps to educate their own children as they see fit. |
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Post by sharonw on Jun 5, 2012 18:28:14 GMT -5
GT's message was ground breaking enough for me to not be concerned about the omission of the word "sexual". Its not a word that is used in meetings, probably because most people use the antiquated King James Version of the bible. I agree. It doesn't change the substance of the message but it is true that it may not have been understood by pre-school children. Hopefully the parents will now take steps to educate their own children as they see fit. It may take a while for the workers to just grasp the significance of what Graham has preached about...and there will be some who will stretch it to say that since he didn't say "sex or sexual" that they really didn't know what he was really talking about. It IS amazing how hard it is to get NEW information into the ears of some of the fellowshippers, friends and workers alike! I shared GT's sermon with my friendly overseer and he seemed to like it and I'm glad for he was a bit of running backward of this topic before now...but since GT and Lyle and Ray have stood up to the mark and did what they can, then we pray that their peers all over the world will catch on as well. |
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Post by sharonw on Jun 5, 2012 18:31:58 GMT -5
Does anybody know if Alan R was there to hear GT's sermon? Would he agree with what was said! I would think that Graham's real care to be careful how he put forth his sermon is evidence that he is well aware that some of his peers might very well appreciate that he took the subject as a sermon. But they cannot wrong him for he backed up everything with scripture in a very good manner. But I'm sure he spent some very precious time getting the manner in which he spoke underwraps to be not as offensive as possible! THAT is credit due to him. |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 5, 2012 19:55:14 GMT -5
New Zealand a world leader again. Monday was Queens birthday holiday in NZ. He used the word abuse, if you read what he said again he tell why he has an aversion to using such words. |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 5, 2012 19:56:24 GMT -5
Does anybody know if Alan R was there to hear GT's sermon? Would he agree with what was said! Alan is a very smart man  |
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Post by fred on Jun 5, 2012 23:06:11 GMT -5
Does anybody know if Alan R was there to hear GT's sermon? Would he agree with what was said! Alan is a very smart man Perhaps it was Alan R who handpicked GT to deliver the sermon. |
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Post by emy on Jun 5, 2012 23:16:21 GMT -5
Alan is a very smart man Perhaps it was Alan R who handpicked GT to deliver the sermon. Do you really think that's how it works? |
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Post by davenz on Jun 5, 2012 23:31:47 GMT -5
kiwi - have to agree with you. Alan R is a very smart & intelligent man.
That said - makes me wonder why he sticks with the job hes got. Poor fella seems to be flogging a dead horse. kiwi - Have you seen the letters that GT has written to the faithfull on this topic?
emy - freds got a good point. When it comes to politics and point scoring ( and lets be honest - theres plenty of that in the F&W church), then anything is possible.
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Post by fred on Jun 5, 2012 23:41:47 GMT -5
Perhaps it was Alan R who handpicked GT to deliver the sermon. Do you really think that's how it works? Not only do I think so, but quite often in reality it is so. Visiting workers are often asked to mention subjects that the locals would rather stay away from, and occasionally a visiting worker will ask "How do you teach this here?" so as not to tread on any toes. I have no concerns that AR would ask GT to do the job - it would simply indicate that the overseer is behind the issue as well. |
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Jun 5, 2012 23:49:07 GMT -5
Does anybody know if Alan R was there to hear GT's sermon? Would he agree with what was said! Alan is a very smart man Smart or cunning? Alan should have been the one to deal with this in the congregation, he is after all the overseer. |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 5, 2012 23:52:08 GMT -5
Alan is a very smart man Perhaps it was Alan R who handpicked GT to deliver the sermon. And perhaps it was God, ever thought of that? |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 5, 2012 23:52:59 GMT -5
Alan is a very smart man Smart or cunning? Alan should have been the one to deal with this in the congregation, he is after all the overseer. So God gets no mention? |
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Post by emy on Jun 5, 2012 23:54:23 GMT -5
Perhaps it was Alan R who handpicked GT to deliver the sermon. And perhaps it was God, ever thought of that? We apparently are simply brainwashed, Kiwi! |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 5, 2012 23:57:14 GMT -5
kiwi - have to agree with you. Alan R is a very smart & intelligent man. That said - makes me wonder why he sticks with the job hes got. Poor fella seems to be flogging a dead horse. kiwi - Have you seen the letters that GT has written to the faithfull on this topic? emy - freds got a good point. When it comes to politics and point scoring ( and lets be honest - theres plenty of that in the F&W church), then anything is possible. Obviously you don't know God  I see you are from North America [or that you are using Americanisms in your spelling] and that you neither know or understand Alan but can go ahead and make uneducated comments  |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 5, 2012 23:58:31 GMT -5
Alan is a very smart man Smart or cunning? Alan should have been the one to deal with this in the congregation, he is after all the overseer. Another comment from the cheap seats |
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Post by kiwi on Jun 6, 2012 0:01:27 GMT -5
And perhaps it was God, ever thought of that? We apparently are simply brainwashed, Kiwi! Yea it truly amazes me that the commenter's on here give no credit at all to the Almighty, must be some sort of christian thing  |
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Post by Grant on Jun 6, 2012 2:08:04 GMT -5
The article clearly states Child Sexual Abuse and only writes CSA after it has stated what it is referring to. It does not use the term, presuming that the reader knows what the author is talking about. It says Child Sexual Abuse (CSA) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 3:04:45 GMT -5
Look here enuf, everyone knows what CSA stands for. Even Abraham Lincoln detested the very thing and was at war with it. He saw many people in bondage to it and wanted to set them free.
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Post by spiders on Jun 6, 2012 6:48:02 GMT -5
Does anybody know if Alan R was there to hear GT's sermon? Would he agree with what was said! Alan is a very smart man You didn't answer my questions kiwi What does Alan being "smart" have to do with it I have no doubt that Graham was used by God to deliver this sermon and I admire his courage in obeying the prompting of the Spirit. |
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Post by fred on Jun 6, 2012 7:03:48 GMT -5
And perhaps it was God, ever thought of that? We apparently are simply brainwashed, Kiwi! I don't get the implication in your post emy. Nevertheless modern communication is a wonderful thing - already I notice a link to his sermon on facebook (via wings). Good news travels fast.  |
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Jun 6, 2012 8:02:04 GMT -5
kiwi
Lets cut to the chase. This was not handled immediately.
One of the guys has been abusing since the 1970's or earlier.
Im sure the workers are aware over the yrs of other complaints and cases of this nature.
If you want to talk biblically, Alan is the one who should have delt with it publicly. He is the overseer. Head sherang.
I would tell him this to his face too.
I am glad that something has been done.
Im thinking of the victims and how they feel.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Jun 6, 2012 8:04:29 GMT -5
spiders
Kiwi wouldnt know unless someone told him. I would think Alan would have been there, Id be surprised if he wasnt. Bet it created a hive of buzzing over the lunch break..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 8:31:58 GMT -5
Bet it created a hive of buzzing over the lunch break.. A bit like a Monty Python fiasco methinks? I mean how do you have a conversation over a word you can't say, never mind repeat? A bit like the proposal to tax "thingy" sketch. www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmgcylAxjfY
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Post by someguy on Jun 6, 2012 8:34:13 GMT -5
Perhaps it was Alan R who handpicked GT to deliver the sermon. Do you really think that's how it works? Actually I know that is how it has worked. If it always works like that I don't know, but certainly people have been instructed to preach on certain things. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2012 8:37:19 GMT -5
Do you really think that's how it works? Actually I know that is how it has worked. If it always works like that I don't know, but certainly people have been instructed to preach on certain things. Umm, well, "asked" or "suggested".....gotta get the language right someguy! |
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mira
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Post by mira on Jun 6, 2012 15:05:05 GMT -5
spiders
Kiwi wouldnt know unless someone told him. I would think Alan would have been there, Id be surprised if he wasnt. Bet it created a hive of buzzing over the lunch break.. Time to be surprised. Alan wasn't there |
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Post by ronhall on Jun 6, 2012 15:25:13 GMT -5
For some reason I'm not getting the 'warm-fuzzy' feeling about this development that I think I should.
I'd feel a lot better, I believe, if there were some "teeth" included to make things happen.
But that's just me.
Sorry, not to rain on anyone's parade!
And I truly hope this will as a catalyst to speed the turn-around.
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Post by gaoyojin on Jun 6, 2012 15:53:36 GMT -5
Lyle, I have heard, is not an exclusivist worker. Living in the state that he ran in the past, the general doctrine being preached seemed pretty much exclusivist to me. I've yet to hear a worker preach what I would call a clearly inclusivist sermon. Wow, would that be refreshing. |
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