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Post by quizzer on May 12, 2012 2:12:50 GMT -5
Child sexual abuse, in terms of its profound and life-changing lasting impact on victims, is in an entirely different league to adult sexual immorality. For that reason I'm reluctant to raise the wider subject of sexual immorality in a discussion on child sexual abuse. However, both result from a lack of moral boundaries and looseness in one can lead to offending in another. e.g. A man who has no moral qualms about having sex with a woman who is a day older than the age of consent, may give it no thought to have sexual relations with a woman a day younger than the age of consent. Do I need to spell it out explicitly what I mean by "sexual relations"? Hint: it is more than "wrestling with clothes on", it involves genital contact of one or both parties, either homosexual or heterosexual. Some say that those who talk about sexual immorality are the ones who are most likely guilty of it. That's foolish nonsense, and is counter-productive. There's a serious doctrinal failure in the church that has resulted in a lot of confusion around moral boundaries. The subject needs to be discussed openly. Here are some boundaries that people in the church are confused about that it might be worthwhile to consider: 1. Are there any circumstances that make it acceptable for unmarried professing people to have sexual relations with consenting adults? 2. Are there any circumstances that make it acceptable for married professing people to have sexual relations with consenting adults they are not married to. 3. Are there any circumstances that make it acceptable for workers to have sexual relations with consenting adults? 4. Are there any circumstances that make it acceptable for workers to have sexual relations with non-consenting adults? 5. Are there any circumstances that make it acceptable for professing people or workers to have sexual relations with people under the age of consent? If any of the above are not in line with the doctrine of the church, how can that be taught so that everyone knows where the boundaries are? Or are sexual boundaries simply a matter of personal choice and conscience, and nothing to do with doctrine? One problem is that it's difficult to be clear on 2x2 doctrine. It's always easy to "have it wrong," but impossible to "have it right." Best wishes on figuring out what 2x2s truly believe, because my thoughts are that 2x2 doctrine rest in the whims of the overseers. The other problem with your questions is that you believe that the lack of sexual boundaries are worth considering. I find the larger problem to be that there is a lack of boundaries among professing folks. Most of us have experienced the workers going through our closets and house while we work. Most of us have experienced some weird criticism because 2x2s love to gossip. Women have dress codes. All of these things point to a lack of care toward the individual, and a greater concern for some nebulous set of rules. |
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Post by JO on May 12, 2012 2:47:48 GMT -5
Its not a nebulous set of rules that is needed but a church that encourages all to have a moral compass within our own being.
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Post by Gene on May 12, 2012 6:35:55 GMT -5
Its not a nebulous set of rules that is needed but a church that encourages all to have a moral compass within our own being. Again I say to you, it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a Biblical fundamentalist to have a strong internal moral compass. (Going for a Bertie, here) |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2012 6:39:31 GMT -5
Again I say to you, it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a Biblical fundamentalist to have a strong internal moral compass.
(Going for a Bertie, here)
Bactrian or dromadery?
Tail docked or intact?
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Post by Gene on May 12, 2012 7:11:35 GMT -5
Again I say to you, it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a Biblical fundamentalist to have a strong internal moral compass.
(Going for a Bertie, here)
Bactrian or dromadery? Tail docked or intact? Dromedary. Bactrian's have that second hump to contend with. |
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Post by simon on May 12, 2012 16:39:41 GMT -5
This is the way the world will end,
This is the way the world will end
This is the way the world will end
Not with a bang but a whimper.
I am sure the poet was not thinking about TMB when he wrote this, nor was he thinking of CSA. But, it seems to me to be exactly what is happening here. A case of CSA has been aired here, a few express their fears and hopes as to how it could be dealt with, the thread is given some airy fairy platitudinous statements from a man purporting to be expressing the views of his boss, and we are expected to say, wonderful, and leave it all in the airy fairy hands. There was nothing concrete promised or assured. The bang is now down to a whimper. all right. Maybe one must leave it to God's hands, and angelic hands, which are not airy fairy for all that they are celestial spirits.Who was it said it is bad to fall into the hands of man? Someone did....
And, as for CSA. Well, when I think of the whimper of a child, in some circumstances, it makes my blood run cold. And I realise, that for such a child, at that moment his/her world has ended. That is why, even if this thread is whimpering its way into oblivion, we must all try to continue the fight, in our various ways. I for one pledge to do so .
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Post by Rob Sargison on May 12, 2012 17:46:14 GMT -5
This is the way the world will end, This is the way the world will end This is the way the world will end Not with a bang but a whimper. I am sure the poet was not thinking about TMB when he wrote this, nor was he thinking of CSA. But, it seems to me to be exactly what is happening here. A case of CSA has been aired here, a few express their fears and hopes as to how it could be dealt with, the thread is given some airy fairy platitudinous statements from a man purporting to be expressing the views of his boss, and we are expected to say, wonderful, and leave it all in the airy fairy hands. There was nothing concrete promised or assured. The bang is now down to a whimper. all right. Maybe one must leave it to God's hands, and angelic hands, which are not airy fairy for all that they are celestial spirits.Who was it said it is bad to fall into the hands of man? Someone did.... And, as for CSA. Well, when I think of the whimper of a child, in some circumstances, it makes my blood run cold. And I realise, that for such a child, at that moment his/her world has ended. That is why, even if this thread is whimpering its way into oblivion, we must all try to continue the fight, in our various ways. I for one pledge to do so . This shall not Peter-out Simon. |
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Post by JO on May 12, 2012 20:45:27 GMT -5
Clearday, I think we’re in agreement here. Please don’t doubt that I’d like to see justice served. I’m not an apologist for this man, nor do I answer for the responsibilities of the elders or the workers. I simply wanted it to be known that there are and have been those in the faith who have sought to protect the children. To answer your questions: I know for certain of three other families who met with this man who were warned of his tendencies. It is a possibility that the current local elders have not continued to warn families (it was a previous generation of elders that I referred to in my original post – hence the reference to some passing on and also my hope that the current generation can do the right thing). I certainly hope that there haven’t been any further victims. I look forward to hearing back from steffan and noels and to this whole situation being sorted out. I believe this thread will have a positive effect on the fellowship by bringing works of darkness into the light. There is much more at stake than the particular situation raised in the OP - its only one example of the appalling damage that a breakdown in communication can lead to. Some elders were warning families about a known child sexual abuse risk, yet the ministry was satisfied for the man to fill the role of elder. Sadly, some children fell through the cracks and were abused. It would have been so much better if the elders and the workers could have worked together more effectively. |
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Post by quizzer on May 12, 2012 23:52:24 GMT -5
This is more than a break-down in communication, JO. It's symbolic of the disconnect that the workers have toward parental care for a child.
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Post by JO on May 13, 2012 0:26:40 GMT -5
To be fair Quizzer, child sexual abuse is something most of society knew little about until relatively recently.
We were especially naive in the fellowship because we didn't expect people professing godliness to be perpetrators.
There's still a lot of ignorance on the subject in society at large, but thankfully the law is taking it seriously in Western societies.
Noels and the overseer are working on getting up to speed with it.
In Matthew 18 Jesus was speaking of little children and child-like believers. Either way, I think child sexual abuse applies to what he said about the millstone.
Its important that offenders acknowledge the gravity of the offending. It can virtually ruin their lives naturally speaking, and turn them away from meetings and a relationship with God.
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Matt 18:6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 0:34:31 GMT -5
To be fair Quizzer, child sexual abuse is something most of society knew little about until relatively recently. We were especially naive in the fellowship because we didn't expect people professing godliness to be perpetrators. There's still a lot of ignorance on the subject in society at large, but thankfully the law is taking it seriously in Western societies. Noels and the overseer are working on getting up to speed with it. In Matthew 18 Jesus was speaking of little children and child-like believers. Either way, I think child sexual abuse applies to what he said about the millstone. Its important that offenders acknowledge the gravity of the offending. It can virtually ruin their lives naturally speaking, and turn them away from meetings and a relationship with God. ------------- ----------------- -------------------- --------------------- -------------- Matt 18:6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise. |
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Post by quizzer on May 13, 2012 0:44:23 GMT -5
To be fair Quizzer, child sexual abuse is something most of society knew little about until relatively recently. We were especially naive in the fellowship because we didn't expect people professing godliness to be perpetrators. There's still a lot of ignorance on the subject in society at large, but thankfully the law is taking it seriously in Western societies. Noels and the overseer are working on getting up to speed with it. In Matthew 18 Jesus was speaking of little children and child-like believers. Either way, I think child sexual abuse applies to what he said about the millstone. Its important that offenders acknowledge the gravity of the offending. It can virtually ruin their lives naturally speaking, and turn them away from meetings and a relationship with God. ------------- ----------------- -------------------- --------------------- -------------- Matt 18:6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise.So, CSA offenders knew that, as long as they didn't steal or drive over the speed limit, they could molest as many children as they wanted. Wow. |
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Post by JO on May 13, 2012 1:03:15 GMT -5
While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise. I wonder if the criminals who had a better sense of the wrong of CSA were child sexual abuse victims themselves? |
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Post by kencoolidge on May 13, 2012 5:33:25 GMT -5
While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise. I wonder if the criminals who had a better sense of the wrong of CSA were child sexual abuse victims themselves? JO I think most incidences will support that. So looking beyong the perpertrator and victim there seems to be a predesposition to adding more to the list.Sins of the fathers so on. ken |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 8:08:43 GMT -5
While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise. I wonder if the criminals who had a better sense of the wrong of CSA were child sexual abuse victims themselves? That has always been my best explanation for that. Many criminals have probably been greatly abused in their own lives and intuitively recognized the damage done to them, hence they saw a CSA offender much like they saw their own tormentors and cause of their messed up life. Still, why does it take personal experience of an offense to be able to have empathy for this awful crime? |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 8:13:45 GMT -5
While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise.So, CSA offenders knew that, as long as they didn't steal or drive over the speed limit, they could molest as many children as they wanted. Wow. It's difficult to say what the thought processes of the CSA offenders were, but yes, it's probably a bit like that. I expect that most CSA offenders could see the moral turbidity around them on the CSA issue so they never saw it as a big offense either, at least not as big as speeding or double parking. |
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Post by slowtosee on May 13, 2012 9:09:38 GMT -5
Hi, Thanks to anyone helping to STOP CSA. My nephew, who is in the prison system verified that CSA offenders in his "system" definetely are at risk of being "hurt" by other prisoners. He had a cell partner for a short time, who was "discovered" by general population inmates as a CSA offender and was IMMEDIATEDLY put into "protected" or private cell for his safetly. This sounds like maybe a "promotion" to private cell, but actually, my nephew says it is NOT good, as your priveleges are VERY reduced as you cannot be with general population, so lots of restrictions. 64 facts about child sexual abuse- facts.randomhistory.com/child-sexual-abuse-facts.html Are child molesters really the most hated people in the prison system -http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/11/jerry_sandusky_out_on_bail_are_child_molesters_tormented_in_american_prisons_.html Alvin |
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Post by sharonw on May 13, 2012 9:40:41 GMT -5
To be fair Quizzer, child sexual abuse is something most of society knew little about until relatively recently. We were especially naive in the fellowship because we didn't expect people professing godliness to be perpetrators. There's still a lot of ignorance on the subject in society at large, but thankfully the law is taking it seriously in Western societies. Noels and the overseer are working on getting up to speed with it. In Matthew 18 Jesus was speaking of little children and child-like believers. Either way, I think child sexual abuse applies to what he said about the millstone. Its important that offenders acknowledge the gravity of the offending. It can virtually ruin their lives naturally speaking, and turn them away from meetings and a relationship with God. ------------- ----------------- -------------------- --------------------- -------------- Matt 18:6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise. I have to wonder when the first workers turned their heads away from the goings on of CSA until their hands were forced and they just moved them from one area to another, if that was perhaps the workers own feelings of repulsiveness to that act and they are afraid to let their emotions guide their handling of such things? I think Jesus saying that it would be better for a milestone to be around the perps' necks put what should be done about ssuch people into the legal light that NO forgiveness is NOT possible Maybe these offending the little ones are the sins that Jesus told Peter and the other Aposltes that they could retain on earth and heaven....Also the old testament law backs that up.....oppressing an innocent with sexual aggression used to bring stoning on unto the perps death. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2012 11:24:04 GMT -5
To be fair Quizzer, child sexual abuse is something most of society knew little about until relatively recently. We were especially naive in the fellowship because we didn't expect people professing godliness to be perpetrators. There's still a lot of ignorance on the subject in society at large, but thankfully the law is taking it seriously in Western societies. Noels and the overseer are working on getting up to speed with it. In Matthew 18 Jesus was speaking of little children and child-like believers. Either way, I think child sexual abuse applies to what he said about the millstone. Its important that offenders acknowledge the gravity of the offending. It can virtually ruin their lives naturally speaking, and turn them away from meetings and a relationship with God. ------------- ----------------- -------------------- --------------------- -------------- Matt 18:6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise. This is part of long established prison culture and the answer to a great extent lies in the culture itself rather than in the individual prisoner's actual moral principles. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that most prisoners do not disapprove greatly about csa, but they are generally no more inclined against it than the ordinary person. When a person is sent to jail they have to think and act according to the prison culture in order to get through their sentence as easily as possible. Sex offenders are normally separated into their own wing of the prison for their own safety, but this also sends out a message to the other prisoners that the sex offenders (aka the beasts) are lower than themselves. I am of the belief that a major part of the culture derives from the bully syndrome. You know how the weakest child in the class is often picked on by the others to enhance their own status? Many csa offenders and other sex offenders are society's weaklings or at least nondescripts. In prison it is the hardest men who are respected and control the other prisoners, especially in their way of thinking and acting within the prisoner community. Sex offenders are easy targets and a means to enhance one's status amongst other prisoners through subjecting them to violence etc. You get "prison cred!" I've known cases such as where one "ordinary" prisoner and a sex offender were the best of pals when not incarcerated, yet it happened that they were "inside" together for a spell, but in separate wings. The ordinary prisoner was s--t scared that the other prisoners would find out that he was a pal of the sex offender, so much so that he was extra hostile in attitude towards his pal in order to give the impression that he hated sex offenders in order to protect his own skin, and would have subjected his pal to serious injury if given the chance whilst in prison. Nonetheless a person's upbringing and environmental background helps shapes their behaviour in life, so it is likely that the prison culture of hating sex offenders has its roots in some prisoners having been subjected to such acts themselves when young. Hating sex offenders is an accepted mentality most prisoners must adopt in order to secure their own standing within the prison community. Remember too, that many of those "anti-beast" prisoners force many young adult male prisoners into acts of homosexuality to satisfy their own needs/desires. Also in prison many heterosexual prisoners indulge in homosexual acts due to their confinement and having no outlet for their normal sexual drives. There may be a lesson in this? Is there a similarity between the prison system and being "imprisoned by a system?" Strong natural desires will at times be like a kettle on the boil for some and an outlet of some kind will be found. All it needs is opportunity to meet temptation. |
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Post by Happy Feet on May 13, 2012 17:43:47 GMT -5
I have to wonder when the first workers turned their heads away from the goings on of CSA until their hands were forced and they just moved them from one area to another, if that was perhaps the workers own feelings of repulsiveness to that act and they are afraid to let their emotions guide their handling of such things? This doesn't happen in New Zealand remember. Didn't noels tell us that every case of sexual abuse within the fellowship is dealt with appropriately in the eyes of God and man or was allowing a Sunday morning meeting to continue in the home of a known abuser acceptable to them? |
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Post by sharonw on May 14, 2012 2:22:40 GMT -5
I have to wonder when the first workers turned their heads away from the goings on of CSA until their hands were forced and they just moved them from one area to another, if that was perhaps the workers own feelings of repulsiveness to that act and they are afraid to let their emotions guide their handling of such things? This doesn't happen in New Zealand remember. Didn't noels tell us that every case of sexual abuse within the fellowship is dealt with appropriately in the eyes of God and man or was allowing a Sunday morning meeting to continue in the home of a known abuser acceptable to them? Perhaps it is something they don't feel comfortable about so letting things go forth as always lets the workers go their own ways even though it opens up for more victims otherwise! It has never been something workers want to discuss and that is "sex" in whatever form it comes in...plus they don't get it that CSA is NOT about sex, it's about controlling someone. |
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Post by quizzer on May 14, 2012 10:46:30 GMT -5
While I place myself in that ignorant category too, this is a subject we were discussing at dinner tonight with a family, one of whom is a retired police officer. The one thing I did know about for many decades was that child molester criminals were at the very bottom of the hierarchy in the penal system.....to the extent that their lives are in danger. Our policeman guest confirmed that it has been that way for a long time. This is really a remarkable situation. That criminals had a better sense of the wrong of CSA than the non-criminal population, including the most righteous among us. This subject has been discussed on this board before but it still astounds me, particularly looking back 50 years ago or so when CSA was hushed up and victims were told to forgive and forget about it. Yet the criminals always knew otherwise. This is part of long established prison culture and the answer to a great extent lies in the culture itself rather than in the individual prisoner's actual moral principles. Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that most prisoners do not disapprove greatly about csa, but they are generally no more inclined against it than the ordinary person. When a person is sent to jail they have to think and act according to the prison culture in order to get through their sentence as easily as possible. Sex offenders are normally separated into their own wing of the prison for their own safety, but this also sends out a message to the other prisoners that the sex offenders (aka the beasts) are lower than themselves. I am of the belief that a major part of the culture derives from the bully syndrome. You know how the weakest child in the class is often picked on by the others to enhance their own status? Many csa offenders and other sex offenders are society's weaklings or at least nondescripts. In prison it is the hardest men who are respected and control the other prisoners, especially in their way of thinking and acting within the prisoner community. Sex offenders are easy targets and a means to enhance one's status amongst other prisoners through subjecting them to violence etc. You get "prison cred!" I've known cases such as where one "ordinary" prisoner and a sex offender were the best of pals when not incarcerated, yet it happened that they were "inside" together for a spell, but in separate wings. The ordinary prisoner was s--t scared that the other prisoners would find out that he was a pal of the sex offender, so much so that he was extra hostile in attitude towards his pal in order to give the impression that he hated sex offenders in order to protect his own skin, and would have subjected his pal to serious injury if given the chance whilst in prison. Nonetheless a person's upbringing and environmental background helps shapes their behaviour in life, so it is likely that the prison culture of hating sex offenders has its roots in some prisoners having been subjected to such acts themselves when young. Hating sex offenders is an accepted mentality most prisoners must adopt in order to secure their own standing within the prison community. Remember too, that many of those "anti-beast" prisoners force many young adult male prisoners into acts of homosexuality to satisfy their own needs/desires. Also in prison many heterosexual prisoners indulge in homosexual acts due to their confinement and having no outlet for their normal sexual drives. There may be a lesson in this? Is there a similarity between the prison system and being "imprisoned by a system?" Strong natural desires will at times be like a kettle on the boil for some and an outlet of some kind will be found. All it needs is opportunity to meet temptation. I'm all for having criminals back in chain-gangs where they're chipping rocks, mowing grass on highways (with hand mowers), and all other menial tasks. Nothing like a good, long day of hard labor to deal with all those sexual desires. |
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Post by emy on May 14, 2012 12:44:21 GMT -5
I'm all for having criminals back in chain-gangs where they're chipping rocks, mowing grass on highways (with hand mowers), and all other menial tasks. Nothing like a good, long day of hard labor to deal with all those sexual desires. I'll second that, especially for the non-violent. |
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Post by jwatt on May 15, 2012 1:51:03 GMT -5
I'm all for having criminals back in chain-gangs where they're chipping rocks, mowing grass on highways (with hand mowers), and all other menial tasks. Nothing like a good, long day of hard labor to deal with all those sexual desires. I'll second that, especially for the non-violent. Great idea! I wonder how many cases there are of csa amongst f&w world wide and are they handled the same way in each country? By handled the same way I mean swept under the carpet? |
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on May 15, 2012 7:15:56 GMT -5
Its not a nebulous set of rules that is needed but a church that encourages all to have a moral compass within our own being. Again I say to you, it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a Biblical fundamentalist to have a strong internal moral compass. (Going for a Bertie, here) Where is the magnetic field that governs a moral compass? |
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Post by JO on May 15, 2012 15:02:06 GMT -5
Again I say to you, it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a Biblical fundamentalist to have a strong internal moral compass. (Going for a Bertie, here) Where is the magnetic field that governs a moral compass? There's a lot of good moral advice taught in the bible, but I expect RAT our resident atheist has a better moral compass than some workers and elders. |
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Post by JO on May 15, 2012 19:52:23 GMT -5
I will contact the Overseer and post here again once I have received an answer from him. However with assurance I can say that each and every instance of CSA allegation made to the ministry in New Zealand is fully looked into and dealt with according to standards that are right in the sight of God and man and will stand open audit. I suppose it will take some time for the ministry to decide what responsibility it will take going forward. It might be that the ministry will ask that child sexual abuse allegations go straight to the police, that CSA is a legal matter rather than a church matter. If that decision is made, then it will need to be conveyed to everyone in the church. For now, it seems that the ministry accepts responsibility for fully looking into and dealing with allegations that someone in the church has sexually abused a child. Does the ministry accept full responsibility for preventing more children from falling through the cracks? |
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Post by Rob Sargison on May 16, 2012 0:53:43 GMT -5
To paraphrase Elijah perhaps Noels needs to........'Shout louder. Maybe he's thinking, relieving himself, or traveling! Maybe he's sleeping, and you have to wake him!"
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