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Post by No mouse on Mar 8, 2012 1:08:38 GMT -5
This is disgusting. No servant of the meek and lowly Jesus would strike fear into the hearts of his little ones. This worker needs to shape up or go find a different job. If you bumped into Jesus in the Hobart street, how would you feel? Could you fall at his feet and reach out to him and find love and mercy? Now, what if it was that worker instead? There's a big disconnect between the Jesus we read of in the gospels and many of these workers strutting Tassie today. They act like they have usurped Jesus. These cannot be servants of the Jesus of the bible. How much of the love and compassion of Jesus for us "little ones" have they shown us recently? Have they cared for the victims of their CSA? Have they heard the bleating of the sheep? Forget 'em. I'm not being the mouse around them anymore ;D What if God was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home?(Jesus was just one of us. Not high and mighty and lifted up above us little mice) |
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Post by emmarr75 on Mar 8, 2012 1:59:56 GMT -5
Hi Angelina Mouse
Can I just reiterate what others have said to you here. Like those who have posted before me, I am horrified at the thought that you are frightened by a worker. I'm quite sure that God would also be horrified at the thought as well.
Please take time to register your concern at the Wings website ir register at Wingsbts (the message board attached). You can choose to hide your user name so that no-one (apart from Admins) will know if you log on. This will allow to you privately message your concerns to any of the Admins.
Emma
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Post by Angelina Mouse on Mar 8, 2012 3:11:47 GMT -5
Many thanks for everyones kind words. Its not the first time I have been frightened by a worker. When the EB situation first came out workers came here and demanded to know if we had the internet. We didnt at that time. We didnt know what was wrong, but I and 2 young family members were terrified. We learnt later about EB.
Emma, I've recognized you. Sorry cant say who I am. I know you well. You would be horrified to know who I am, and how my family have been treated.
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Post by emmarr75 on Mar 8, 2012 3:37:55 GMT -5
Hey Angelina I don't mind that you've recognized me! Hugs  If you ever want to share what's happened you know how to reach me. More than happy to listen and extend support. Emma |
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Post by Angelina Mouse on Mar 8, 2012 3:44:40 GMT -5
Thanks Emma, I'll remember that.
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Post by Angelina Mouse on Mar 8, 2012 3:50:16 GMT -5
Hey "no mouse". I'm glad you are not a mouse! You sound feisty. More like a tiger. I'm not very brave, but your words are a big help.
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Post by simon on Mar 8, 2012 4:02:01 GMT -5
Thanks for all the messages on this thread since I last looked, especially that letter Jo that you pasted on. That has given us an injection of hope! if there could be just ONE such sister worker on EACH staff, how much could be solved ?! Even just ONE. I wonder where she is now, 20 years along the track ? If she is still in the work, and still with the heart of care that she had then, she will be a veritable powerhouse. I hope she reads this thread, and I hope she knows how much courage and inspiration she is still endowing others with, through that attitude, even today. And, she need not be alone. How can we ensure that all sister workers could see that letter, and know that in this very arena, there is a huge niche waiting to be filled ? They could do it in a much more heart-felt way than their male counterparts, even though I know that several of the female species can frighten lambs and mice, and even big burly men have been known to quake. I remember hearing about a workers meeting once, where the sister workers were encouraged by a brother worker in blunt terms, to be "womanly" and "gentle". The gentle word , given with care and inflected with a tone that shows without a doubt that the speaker is trying to understand, and not condemn. Sister workers, you CAN do it, you CAN follow the example of Christ in this! It may mean a little ostracism from some in your ranks, but it is better to be ostracised than be negligent in matters where conscience speaks
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Post by spiders on Mar 8, 2012 5:28:15 GMT -5
Many thanks to Admin, JO, otto2 and aussie 22. Especially thankyou to JO for the sister workers letter. And aussie22 - I feel like a really small mouse when I come in contact with one of the workers in TAS at the moment. This person totally freaks me!!!!!!!!!!!! The mouse needs to wipe her eyes. Thanks for your kind thoughts. Hey Mousey girl you have no reason to get freaked out by workers! They hold no power whatsoever over you (although they like to think they do to try and keep you in the fellowship) The workers are scared at the moment that other victims of CSA will come out and take them to court. Of course they cannot keep covering things up as eventually the truth will come out. CSA and sexual immorality is a cancer eating away at the f&w and you would think if they had an ounce of sense that they would get on the front foot and try and clean things up. This would be the Godly thing to do. |
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Post by spiders on Mar 8, 2012 5:38:33 GMT -5
Hi Angelina Mouse Can I just reiterate what others have said to you here. Like those who have posted before me, I am horrified at the thought that you are frightened by a worker. I'm quite sure that God would also be horrified at the thought as well. Please take time to register your concern at the Wings website ir register at Wingsbts (the message board attached). You can choose to hide your user name so that no-one (apart from Admins) will know if you log on. This will allow to you privately message your concerns to any of the Admins. Emma I agree with Emma. You should register on WINGS Angie M as you could be free to voice your concerns in a caring and supportive environment. Sounds like you have much to offer in protecting our children from abuse. There are admins located in Vic/Tas who will be able to assist you in handling the abuse problems that you have encounted. |
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 8, 2012 8:04:54 GMT -5
Sorry to say, she died a few years ago (maybe 2?) from cancer...she was probably in her early 50's. Her name was Selma Lundin. Therold Sylvester, the man she wrote the letter to, is also deceased. She is shown on the 1991 workers list as laboring in Oregon/Sweden You can direct others to her letter which is posted on the internet on WINGS at: www.wingsfortruth.info/sisworker1991.pdfIts under the tab: Breaking the Silence - Sister Wrkr Thanks for all the messages on this thread since I last looked, especially that letter Jo that you pasted on. That has given us an injection of hope! if there could be just ONE such sister worker on EACH staff, how much could be solved ?! Even just ONE. I wonder where she is now, 20 years along the track ? If she is still in the work, and still with the heart of care that she had then, she will be a veritable powerhouse. I hope she reads this thread, and I hope she knows how much courage and inspiration she is still endowing others with, through that attitude, even today. And, she need not be alone. How can we ensure that all sister workers could see that letter, and know that in this very arena, there is a huge niche waiting to be filled ? They could do it in a much more heart-felt way than their male counterparts, even though I know that several of the female species can frighten lambs and mice, and even big burly men have been known to quake. I remember hearing about a workers meeting once, where the sister workers were encouraged by a brother worker in blunt terms, to be "womanly" and "gentle". The gentle word , given with care and inflected with a tone that shows without a doubt that the speaker is trying to understand, and not condemn. Sister workers, you CAN do it, you CAN follow the example of Christ in this! It may mean a little ostracism from some in your ranks, but it is better to be ostracised than be negligent in matters where conscience speaks |
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Post by sharonw on Mar 8, 2012 11:18:33 GMT -5
Hi JOE, Re:- female on male abuse. Are you talking about male children, teenager or an unsuspecting husband!!!!!!!!!! Have you spoken to someone from WINGS. I think you need to re-read your own post. At the bottom you say evil goes on if good men do nothing. (That should read women as well). We do need to talk to each other, to try and help each other. My husband spoke to one person about this subject, and they just changed the subject. Obviously not interested, somehow involved or just totally embarassed. Probably thought we didnt know. I'm referring to woman sexually abusing pre-teen boy. Workers and friends who don't want to talk about child sexual abuse are part of the problem rather than part of the solution. At a small suburb of our greater city, there was a middle school female teacher who had sex with one of her under-aged boy students....she has been through the court system with every book thrown at her....course she lost her teaching certificate, etc as well as her husband and her children...her husband divorced her and got custody of their 3 children....the lady is still in prison for she was sentenced according to the high number of times she had sex with this underaged boy! She is likely more safe in prison for if she ever returns to this area, she might be lucky to get out of town fast! |
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Post by sharonw on Mar 8, 2012 11:27:06 GMT -5
Many thanks to Admin, JO, otto2 and aussie 22. Especially thankyou to JO for the sister workers letter. And aussie22 - I feel like a really small mouse when I come in contact with one of the workers in TAS at the moment. This person totally freaks me!!!!!!!!!!!! The mouse needs to wipe her eyes. Thanks for your kind thoughts. Hey Mousey girl you have no reason to get freaked out by workers! They hold no power whatsoever over you (although they like to think they do to try and keep you in the fellowship) The workers are scared at the moment that other victims of CSA will come out and take them to court. Of course they cannot keep covering things up as eventually the truth will come out. CSA and sexual immorality is a cancer eating away at the f&w and you would think if they had an ounce of sense that they would get on the front foot and try and clean things up. This would be the Godly thing to do. I suspect the workers that are still workers are feeling great trepidation at what might come to the light in the workership....most of them have known one or more of their peers to have proven themselves weak in regards to remaining celibate and I'm sure they wonder about those IF their actions are going to turn up to be criminal......and likely most of the male workers have had incidences themselves where they were not strong to be totally celibate....thus their "brotherhood" is certainly gathering in close to one another so that the brotherhood is NOT demolished. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2012 11:41:17 GMT -5
The letter by this sister worker is the letter of someone who has a deeply connected sense of right and wrong. It's even more remarkable that it was written over 20 years ago when it was not common knowledge on how to handle such things. Yet this sister worker got it exactly right. It is obvious that she got her leading from within. This letter can be a template for how the workers should handle the problems in Scotland and Vic/Tas (and elsewhere). Its a concern that sister workers are sometimes kept out of child sexual abuse discussion. Sometimes sister workers show more wisdom and understanding and compassion than their male colleagues. If the overseers had the wisdom and courage of the young sister worker in the following letter of two decades ago, it would have saved a lot of grief. =========================================== Excerpt of a letter written by a young Sister Worker to Tharold SylvesterDated: February 11, 1991 In my own experience in two fields where there were molestation cases, I have learned: The offender did not fully acknowledge his wrong until he was in the hands of the law. The victim was not able to begin healing until it had been publicly acknowledged through proper legal channels to have committed a crime against her. That the behavior had ceased was not enough. In the one case, several months passed from the time the behavior ceased to the time the victim reported the crime. It was only after the crime was reported that she had access to the counseling and support she so badly needed to rise above it all. I might mention also that the offender himself expressed relief when the matter was finally settled in court. The friends in the field did not settle down until we had visited in each home, brought the unpleasant matter out in the open, stated out loud that the problem was of a sexual nature. (Euphemisms were not adequate.) We stated a few facts to counteract imagination and/or rumors, and then gave them a chance to vent their feelings and bring up any concerns. Most of them were first extremely angry, but later supportive of us and of the family. The friends who had more difficulty were the ones who already had hidden, unresolved problems of their own. I was dubious about the wisdom of tackling these visits. It felt like tattling, and I worried it might stir up unnecessary trouble. Actually, we discovered it to be a great relief to have things out in the open. For instance, we had some very upset parents of small children asking, "If you knew about this, why didn't you warn us earlier?" We had no answer, except that we had been naïve. Also, when one family knew, and they would be talking to another family, and they were wondering, "Do they know?" and "If they know, do they that we know?” This made for a strong undercurrent of tension that popped like a bubble when everyone knew the facts, and everyone knew that everyone else knew. Here I might add that the facts we gave them had already been established in court. We also let each family know that they were free to talk directly to us or to the family involved if they had further questions. Then we made good on our promise to listen to and answer them. Actually, there were not many who needed to talk further; for most, it was settled for them with one visit. In the second case, the offender had an unblemished reputation. We all reacted with "But he would never do a thing like that," and concluded it must be a false accusation. We just couldn't believe it. But we had to believe it when confronted by the fact that he had pled guilty. There could have easily been sidetaking in the church. But when someone said "He wouldn't do that," we could simply answer, "He pled guilty. He's been sentenced." This kept us workers out of the position of having to judge or take sides. His guilt had already been established. We were simply supporting the laws of the land. There was no problem. If people felt the sentence was too strict or too lenient; the Judge had decided that matter. No problem with differing opinions about what kind of counseling should be given the family members; that was decided by the authorities. No problem with getting him to follow through with treatment; he had to or be found in contempt of court. Meanwhile, the man is saying to himself, "But I'd surely never do a thing like that." Very difficult for him to admit to himself even, that he'd really done it. As hard for him to believe as it was for us. But having to face the legal consequences helped him to face the reality of what he had done. (When the police knocked at the door with arrest warrant and handcuffs, it got pretty real.) That was the first step towards repentance. The court ordered treatment that followed established the seriousness of what he had done and offered him a positive course of action. When the friends saw that he was sincerely working with the treatment program, they were wonderfully supportive. The program also guided him in the steps of making amends. One step was writing a letter of apology, and later an oral apology. He was required to state exactly and completely what he did; a partial or general apology was not acceptable. He stated that what he did was wrong, and that he was sorry. He was not allowed to ask her to forgive him. That was her decision; his responsibility was to simply apologize. The responsibility for making things right was on him, and asking her to forgive him was putting some responsibility over on to her, and that was not his right to do. The whole problem started with asking her to do things he had no right to ask, and the counselors were trying to help him break that pattern. It seems that addicts often feel that if they can get the victim to forgive, it will make things all right, and then the addict doesn't have to change. The treatment also taught the offender how to deal with the terrible overpowering shame he felt once his denial was broken down. This man's wife told us that his shame was incapacitating, and his counselors spent weeks trying to help him to deal with it and go on. Without their specialized help, she felt he would not have been able to recover himself. His counselors also taught him that every day for the rest of his life he must remind himself, "I am a sex offender. I have the potential to hurt someone, and I must watch myself because this could happen again." They said that any time he begins to believe he will not do it again, he is likely to repeat the crime. According to the little brochure we picked up at the police station, any professional, which includes teachers, counselors, medical personnel, and ministers, who becomes aware of a case of child abuse or molestation, is required by law to report it. That's a legal obligation. As for our moral obligation, I personally feel that it parallels the duty of a citizen who knows about a murder. We do wrong if we keep quiet. We aid the criminal if we keep quiet. …I need assurance that when we make special meeting plans, we can place workers in the homes of our people and feel confident that their doctrine and behavior will be godly. When I give our friends addresses for meetings in another state, I want to know that they will be safe there. As you older brothers deal with this matter, you are in my prayers. Thank you for taking time to consider the fears I feel as a woman and as a young worker. |
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Post by JO on Mar 8, 2012 17:07:30 GMT -5
I suspect the workers that are still workers are feeling great trepidation at what might come to the light in the workership The reluctance of most overseers to make an open stand against child sexual abuse does raise this possibility. =========================================== John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. |
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Post by aussie22 on Mar 9, 2012 19:24:12 GMT -5
Hi Jo,
Thank you for your posts that are of great value, in pointing out the truth.
There will be those here like ourselves that will appreciate what you write.
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Post by nlooker on Mar 12, 2012 3:53:03 GMT -5
The thread seems to have gone quiet here
However what I heard in the last few days is that if there was a female involved, then it was not a minor.
But they are definitely sending over the Irish
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 9:30:39 GMT -5
The thread seems to have gone quiet here However what I heard in the last few days is that if there was a female involved, then it was not a minor. But they are definitely sending over the Irish This makes a lot of sense to myself from what I know personally about the alleged offender. However, until further details are learned we must remain circumspect. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 10:07:20 GMT -5
From what I here the alleged victim was a teenager at the time of the incident - mid teens. Grape vine has it - that there is alot more to the story. Rumors of other issues (some quite wild) which might explain the stepping down of Bobby as overseer. I don't think it was simply a case of Bobby not wanting to be overseer - last year he loved the control, even telling some young folks at convention to ask for his permission if they wanted to sing hymns! Even went onto say that by singing, they were feeding the flesh - looks like he might have been feeding his a little bit more!! Sounds a bit like item 5 of Lagone's characteristics? 5) The group's leadership dictates how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, or get married;) leaders may determine types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth.I can well understand why things have all gone quiet over here. However that only leads to increased speculation and rumour mongering. As it stands that's 50% of the active male workers in Scotland now in the frame! I hope it is not that bad. |
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Post by sharonw on Mar 13, 2012 9:37:39 GMT -5
Thanks for all the messages on this thread since I last looked, especially that letter Jo that you pasted on. That has given us an injection of hope! if there could be just ONE such sister worker on EACH staff, how much could be solved ?! Even just ONE. I wonder where she is now, 20 years along the track ? If she is still in the work, and still with the heart of care that she had then, she will be a veritable powerhouse. I hope she reads this thread, and I hope she knows how much courage and inspiration she is still endowing others with, through that attitude, even today. And, she need not be alone. How can we ensure that all sister workers could see that letter, and know that in this very arena, there is a huge niche waiting to be filled ? They could do it in a much more heart-felt way than their male counterparts, even though I know that several of the female species can frighten lambs and mice, and even big burly men have been known to quake. I remember hearing about a workers meeting once, where the sister workers were encouraged by a brother worker in blunt terms, to be "womanly" and "gentle". The gentle word , given with care and inflected with a tone that shows without a doubt that the speaker is trying to understand, and not condemn. Sister workers, you CAN do it, you CAN follow the example of Christ in this! It may mean a little ostracism from some in your ranks, but it is better to be ostracised than be negligent in matters where conscience speaks I feel this plea for sister workers everywhere to step outside of their field positions to touch thelives of the crying. That said, we have to remember that perhaps the sister workers are living with fear of the powered workers and they also may well be their victims of abuse, etc. Most people can not rise above that which has them scared to change because of what is likely to happen to them. Made me think of what Jesus told His Apostles and disciples when He sent them out. Mat 10:16 ¶ Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 16:23:14 GMT -5
From what I here the alleged victim was a teenager at the time of the incident - mid teens. Grape vine has it - that there is alot more to the story. Rumors of other issues (some quite wild) In many ways the other rumours I have heard don’t concern me too much, as if behaviour involving adults only goes wrong, then adults themselves can get it sorted out. If there is any truth in them then the new leadership can deal with it and everyone can move forward. I don’t think we should be side tracked with them. But what about things that involve children? – now that feels very different. We don’t want to be sidetracked from that. As regards the abuse, over the last few days I have heard from different places It was a young child (female) involved It was a teenager (female) but a minor It was a teenager (female) over aged 16 These different versions add confusion and lead to us getting sidetracked.. Especially when each person holding those views is adamant they are right. I have been taking stock and I know others who have done the same i.e. sought confirmation from senior workers on the facts. I know of a couple of people who have had senior workers confirm to them that sexual abuse of an underage female has taken place. I have yet to hear anyone claim they have heard from a worker that the only abuse that happened was to a female aged 16 or over at the time. Can anyone advise whether their experience of what they have heard from workers is otherwise? If any have lingering doubts then I reckon it is best to approach one of the names mentioned very early in this thread. I think Clearday suggested one or two names. John Gunn is well known to Scottish people and may be a very good one to approach in the first instance as he was involved in the process and decision making. That would mean we could all get back to a common knowledge base and potentially act more in unison. |
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Post by Supercalifragilistic on Mar 15, 2012 18:57:08 GMT -5
AMEN DAPHNE!! It's better to have the facts straight and not get so stirred up about what "might be". Then that enables us to act effectively and gives direction.
I would like to add that whether or not the abuse happened as a child or teen or adult the victim needs your support, belief and care. This is vital for healing. Just because a person is an adult when they are violated doesn't mean they can fix it and sort it out themselves...they like children also have "no voice"
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Post by sharonw on Mar 16, 2012 9:23:20 GMT -5
AMEN DAPHNE!! It's better to have the facts straight and not get so stirred up about what "might be". Then that enables us to act effectively and gives direction. I would like to add that whether or not the abuse happened as a child or teen or adult the victim needs your support, belief and care. This is vital for healing. Just because a person is an adult when they are violated doesn't mean they can fix it and sort it out themselves...they like children also have "no voice" You're quite right, fif81! Regardless of the age of the violated person, there are many things that that victim has to feel and undergone....even just the feeling of violation can paralyze victims. I know even people who were gone from home to return to find it turned upside day and pilfered and stolen from, they feel a lot of violation and anger and despair and that is something they can most likely replace. But when you're talking about the violation of a person's intimate self, then that can never be regained by any means. I think about someone of years ago who was raped by an acquaintance, though that acquaintance was nothing more then the victim knowing who the man was by name. This person didn't press charges because in those days more often then not, the police would end up saying the female victim "was asking for it." Or "got caught and now wants to holler 'rape"! So she didn't file charges against the man. She didn't even tell her steady boyfriend of the rape because she knew if she named that man as an acquaintance her boyfriend would go and kill that man and end up in prison himself. So she struggled with her intimate problems all alone and finally a few short years later, like 4 or 5, she saw on TV where this rapist was driving too fast on very curvey roads on a down hill swing and went off the cliff, hit a tree and immediately was lost to a horrible explosion and fire. The rapist left 3 small children and a wife behind. That made the victim glad that she hadn't brought charges against him as it would have been a worse ending of that family then the one they got. I'm not advocating victims to try to do this all by themselves, but pointing out that authorities are more trained in this day and are very able to take the charges and pursue the guilty for justice to be served. Also just making the point that regardless of the age of the victim, it still is devastating but maybe adults come nearer to having the reasoning power to overcome that feeling of that there was something they did or did not do that caused the perpatrator to hurt them. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 12:07:24 GMT -5
From what I here the alleged victim was a teenager at the time of the incident - mid teens. Grape vine has it - that there is alot more to the story. Rumors of other issues (some quite wild) In many ways the other rumours I have heard don’t concern me too much, as if behaviour involving adults only goes wrong, then adults themselves can get it sorted out. If there is any truth in them then the new leadership can deal with it and everyone can move forward. I don’t think we should be side tracked with them. But what about things that involve children? – now that feels very different. We don’t want to be sidetracked from that. As regards the abuse, over the last few days I have heard from different places It was a young child (female) involved It was a teenager (female) but a minor It was a teenager (female) over aged 16 These different versions add confusion and lead to us getting sidetracked.. Especially when each person holding those views is adamant they are right. I have been taking stock and I know others who have done the same i.e. sought confirmation from senior workers on the facts. I know of a couple of people who have had senior workers confirm to them that sexual abuse of an underage female has taken place. I have yet to hear anyone claim they have heard from a worker that the only abuse that happened was to a female aged 16 or over at the time. Can anyone advise whether their experience of what they have heard from workers is otherwise? If any have lingering doubts then I reckon it is best to approach one of the names mentioned very early in this thread. I think Clearday suggested one or two names. John Gunn is well known to Scottish people and may be a very good one to approach in the first instance as he was involved in the process and decision making. That would mean we could all get back to a common knowledge base and potentially act more in unison. The official reason that this worker has not been able to continue in the work is "heart trouble!" That's what's doing the rounds. |
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Post by onlooker on Mar 16, 2012 13:32:29 GMT -5
I asked someone who knows someone 'fessing in Scotland and they knew who was there and who was coming from Ireland, but had not heard anyone was dropping out. So maybe not quite half the story is being told, and it is highly likely that a medical reason would be the official line if further enquiries are made. I suspect it's a case of "The King is dead, long live the King", and they hope the system carries on as normal.
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Post by JO on Mar 16, 2012 14:57:57 GMT -5
"Business as usual" can be like a mudguard that is nice and shiney on the surface and rusting underneath.
The ministry and fellowship needs people who are more willing to be divided over truth than to be united by error.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 16, 2012 17:08:51 GMT -5
In many ways the other rumours I have heard don’t concern me too much, as if behaviour involving adults only goes wrong, then adults themselves can get it sorted out. If there is any truth in them then the new leadership can deal with it and everyone can move forward. I don’t think we should be side tracked with them. But what about things that involve children? – now that feels very different. We don’t want to be sidetracked from that. As regards the abuse, over the last few days I have heard from different places It was a young child (female) involved It was a teenager (female) but a minor It was a teenager (female) over aged 16 These different versions add confusion and lead to us getting sidetracked.. Especially when each person holding those views is adamant they are right. I have been taking stock and I know others who have done the same i.e. sought confirmation from senior workers on the facts. I know of a couple of people who have had senior workers confirm to them that sexual abuse of an underage female has taken place. I have yet to hear anyone claim they have heard from a worker that the only abuse that happened was to a female aged 16 or over at the time. Can anyone advise whether their experience of what they have heard from workers is otherwise? If any have lingering doubts then I reckon it is best to approach one of the names mentioned very early in this thread. I think Clearday suggested one or two names. John Gunn is well known to Scottish people and may be a very good one to approach in the first instance as he was involved in the process and decision making. That would mean we could all get back to a common knowledge base and potentially act more in unison. The official reason that this worker has not been able to continue in the work is "heart trouble!" That's what's doing the rounds. I suppose he'll get an spec. mtgs. round in the future before he's discarded completely then. Strange that excuses have to be found, kind of like IH not being an active worker because he can't speak above a whisper....and yet he tells people that don't know the difference that he's a worker! Go Figure! Although I suppose if an older worker who's been the boss over all the other workers, might really be having "heart trouble"! His heart is broken because his rule is over! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2012 17:14:50 GMT -5
Shaz, "heart trouble" can mean many things!
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Post by JO on Mar 16, 2012 18:12:33 GMT -5
Shaz, "heart trouble" can mean many things! "Heart trouble" can mean the heart is in the wrong place. ============================================ Matthew 15:7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’” |
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