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Post by but but on Apr 3, 2008 20:58:12 GMT -5
Oh come come now. Think about this a little. A no contest to allow the courts (i.e. Child Protection) to take you children whom you love away from you based on perhaps false allegations? No way. I realise I am comparing two different things, but businesses plead their version of 'no contest' all the time to settle suits. Not because they are guilty, but because it is cheaper. You say Are we sure that a 'not guilty' plea would not have 'allowed' them to do the same. It seems to me that child protection is one of those that 'shoots first, and asks questions later.' Child protect believes there is a problem so they remove the children, IMO it has nothing to do with the plea. IMO, a 'no contest plea' would be a way of speeding up the process that has already started by removing the kids. (Again, I have no idea why these people did what they did. Just my thoughts on why someone may do it.)
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rn
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Post by rn on Apr 3, 2008 22:14:27 GMT -5
:)scott,ijust read your post...you have spokenwith my dtr in northern mich re this case.....the story will continue to unfold in the days ahead .
rn
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Post by Peter on Apr 4, 2008 16:11:57 GMT -5
Reading all these posts and threads on child molestation and abuse, friends charged with child pornography etc., is IMO destroying the reasons for this board and what most people want to get out of reasoned discussions between Christian folks.
I have a question for Edgar, Dennis,Gene and any other ex worker,..."Did you ever have a companion who you thought was a risk to young people?"
I guess over the last 10 years there have been several thousand workers world wide, and while one is one too many, this behaviour is hardly rampant within the church.
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Post by ex-teenager on Apr 4, 2008 16:18:29 GMT -5
Reading all these posts and threads on child molestation and abuse, friends charged with child pornography etc., is IMO destroying the reasons for this board and what most people want to get out of reasoned discussions between Christian folks. I have a question for Edgar, Dennis,Gene and any other ex worker,..."Did you ever have a companion who you thought was a risk to young people?" I guess over the last 10 years there have been several thousand workers world wide, and while one is one too many, this behaviour is hardly rampant within the church. I can think of six alleged incidents of improper behaviour by male workers all within the last 10 yrs. And excluding the ongoing Michigan occurance.
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Post by Guest on Apr 4, 2008 18:02:18 GMT -5
I have been very disturbed and ashamed of some of the things people have been posting on here. I have waited several days to see if my thoughts changed, but I can longer hold my opinions, because I am so upset and saddened at some of the posts I am seeing.
I think the main reason some of you have problems with the info posted about this Michigan abuse case is that you don't want to believe evil things like this are taking place in this religion or maybe you are just too self centered to want to think about being a humanitarian. You claim to be Christian, yet you curse and condemn those who are trying to stop evil. How does this discussion that affects this religion and the reflection it shows of Christ not belong on this website?
I will only say this...until you are part of such a horiffic unveiling of evil, you will never understand how it affects people and the support and help that everyone involved needs. My heart grieves every day because of the knowledge I have of the Michigan situation, and I pray and plead that God will heal the hearts and minds of the children.
Please peacefully RESPECT this discussion of the Michigan case as many of us are all trying to cope with the terrible events and maybe talking about is part of our healing process.
Thank you and God bless all of you who are playing an important role in this case.
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Post by ex-teenager on Apr 4, 2008 18:07:27 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more guest. Talking definately helps!
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Post by turn around on Apr 4, 2008 19:39:41 GMT -5
Have you seen the light teeny, or are you running with the fox and baying with the hounds???
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Post by What IF on Apr 4, 2008 22:18:04 GMT -5
What if the allegations against workers is found to be false?
What if the allegations were invented to make trouble?
What if the allegations against that family are found embellished at the prompting of CPS?
Wait for all facts------Then cast your lots
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Post by ex-teenager on Apr 5, 2008 3:22:31 GMT -5
Have you seen the light teeny, or are you running with the fox and baying with the hounds??? What? that abuse happens when you have a group of people? yeah seen that ages ago. Why would it effect my faith in Christ?
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Post by Whos spin on Apr 5, 2008 5:45:32 GMT -5
I can hear the spin now " You know how those Russian girls are" Make the accused the victim and poison the well about the accusation. Thanks for the heads up Scott. Anything I can do write me a PM Ken You can hear what spin by whom??? I can't think of any sane adult who would blame the children. Are you really trying to say that because this involves F&W then this is what will be said? Then you are really pointing out how ridiculously false so much of the garbage on this site is. What is your reason to villify people (say they will say such things) because of their faith?
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Post by Been there on Apr 5, 2008 5:58:25 GMT -5
In our case there was abuse involving friends. The workers were the most realistic, supportive and caring people and very much supported law enforcement. They were encouraging and supportive through the reporting process and the court proceedings. The abuser is now a registered sex offender and is not allowed to be alone with children under 18. I know these same workers have compassion and love for the soul of the abuser but they have no qualms about him being held legally responsible for his actions. I could not have asked for greater support and care during such a difficult time. As an aside note, I have no doubt that the % of people perpetrating this kind of abuse is far greater in the general population than it is among the F&W. To read this board you would think it is the opposite. That is the spirit of deceit that permeates this board.
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Post by Michelle on Apr 5, 2008 8:44:48 GMT -5
Just recived this letter from JF yesterday. Wanted to share it with all. This letter was dated Feb 1, 2008 Dear Friends, I deeply regret having to write this letter to you. Some former brother workers who labored in the work of the ministry here in Michigan, who you loved and trusted and frequented your homes is under investigation for child molestation and abuse. We are asking those of you who have childern who have been in contact with him or with anyone who you have had some suspicions regarding their behavior as being unbecoming or inappropiate, after questioning the children thoroughly contact the nearest Michigan Stste Police Post with a written report and let me know so I can turn over the information to assist the authorities involved in this investigation. It is important that such children involved give an account of the actions of such people so they can be lawfully dealt with and the children can be counseled to help remedy their fears, feelings of guilt or adverse emotional problems they may presently have or have in the future resulting from the experiences they suffered. If there has been in the past or future any other such idencent or immoral action by anyone, friend, worker, relative, neighbor ect we suggest you contact the local law enforcement authorities. We are in full cooperation with them. Being in the presence of Department of Human Service and Child Protection Service officials, judges, children defense lawyers on occasions, we have observed that they are people of intergrity and wisdom and have a deep concern and care for the welfare of children, upholding the laws of the land to protect them. We are very thankful that such people are in the places of responsibilty. No wonder Paul the apostle in his writings in the New Testiment encourged the poeple on several occations to have respect toward our leaders and to pray "For kings and all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.' ! Timothy 2:1-3 also in Romans 13:1-4 'Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers'....' For he is a minister of God to thee for good.'
Sincerely your brother in Christ, Jerome Frandle
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Post by heal logged out on Apr 5, 2008 8:50:09 GMT -5
Just recived this letter from JF yesterday. Wanted to share it with all. This letter was dated Feb 1, 2008 Dear Friends, I deeply regret having to write this letter to you. Some former brother workers who labored in the work of the ministry here in Michigan, who you loved and trusted and frequented your homes is under investigation for child molestation and abuse. We are asking those of you who have childern who have been in contact with him or with anyone who you have had some suspicions regarding their behavior as being unbecoming or inappropiate, after questioning the children thoroughly contact the nearest Michigan Stste Police Post with a written report and let me know so I can turn over the information to assist the authorities involved in this investigation. It is important that such children involved give an account of the actions of such people so they can be lawfully dealt with and the children can be counseled to help remedy their fears, feelings of guilt or adverse emotional problems they may presently have or have in the future resulting from the experiences they suffered. If there has been in the past or future any other such idencent or immoral action by anyone, friend, worker, relative, neighbor ect we suggest you contact the local law enforcement authorities. We are in full cooperation with them. Being in the presence of Department of Human Service and Child Protection Service officials, judges, children defense lawyers on occasions, we have observed that they are people of intergrity and wisdom and have a deep concern and care for the welfare of children, upholding the laws of the land to protect them. We are very thankful that such people are in the places of responsibilty. No wonder Paul the apostle in his writings in the New Testiment encourged the poeple on several occations to have respect toward our leaders and to pray "For kings and all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.' ! Timothy 2:1-3 also in Romans 13:1-4 'Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers'....' For he is a minister of God to thee for good.'
Sincerely your brother in Christ, Jerome FrandleLooks like we got something in writing wow a real plus I would say
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Post by Seriously on Apr 5, 2008 10:42:37 GMT -5
RE: Being in the presence of Department of Human Service and Child Protection Service officials, judges, children defense lawyers on occasions, we have observed that they are people of intergrity and wisdom and have a deep concern and care for the welfare of children, upholding the laws of the land to protect them. We are very thankful that such people are in the places of responsibilty. No wonder Paul the apostle in his writings in the New Testiment encourged the poeple on several occations to have respect toward our leaders and to pray "For kings and all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.' ! Timothy 2:1-3 also in Romans 13:1-4 'Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers'....' For he is a minister of God to thee for good.' Sincerely your brother in Christ, Jerome Frandle[/color][/font][/quote] Seriously, to just now come to this realization? ?
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Post by ARROGANT on Apr 5, 2008 10:57:32 GMT -5
RE: Being in the presence of Department of Human Service and Child Protection Service officials, judges, children defense lawyers on occasions, we have observed that they are people of intergrity and wisdom and have a deep concern and care for the welfare of children, upholding the laws of the land to protect them. We are very thankful that such people are in the places of responsibilty. No wonder Paul the apostle in his writings in the New Testiment encourged the poeple on several occations to have respect toward our leaders and to pray "For kings and all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.' ! Timothy 2:1-3 also in Romans 13:1-4 'Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers'....' For he is a minister of God to thee for good.'
Sincerely your brother in Christ, Jerome Frandle
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Post by Agree on Apr 5, 2008 10:58:46 GMT -5
RE: Being in the presence of Department of Human Service and Child Protection Service officials, judges, children defense lawyers on occasions, we have observed that they are people of intergrity and wisdom and have a deep concern and care for the welfare of children, upholding the laws of the land to protect them. We are very thankful that such people are in the places of responsibilty. No wonder Paul the apostle in his writings in the New Testiment encourged the poeple on several occations to have respect toward our leaders and to pray "For kings and all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.' ! Timothy 2:1-3 also in Romans 13:1-4 'Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers'....' For he is a minister of God to thee for good.' Sincerely your brother in Christ, Jerome Frandle
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 5, 2008 11:17:38 GMT -5
Were the numerous spelling errors in Jerome's original letter; or just typos while typing the letter to post here?
Just curious...
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Beentheregotthetshirt
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Post by Beentheregotthetshirt on Apr 5, 2008 11:25:20 GMT -5
HMMM here is a thought for all you whiners and complainers about this site having so much about molestation on it. THERE has been so much molestation in years past and i'm sure present, that they need to have alot of ROOM. I find it very interesting that someone wants to have a new board. Maybe the point is why was I part of something for so long that condoned the kind of people that are pedophiles, liars, and yet condemed someone for things they themselves were doing. BRING IT ON!! lets find every F&W out there who has molested a child and bring them to justice.
WAIT a better plan lets make a board for ALL of the victims to actually expose those who are doing, have done and are still out there and haven't been brought up on charges yet. Just ask me what damage it does to children. Or maybe lets have a lawsuit like the catholic church did and see how much money really does flow in the vains of F&W religion.
MONEY, SEX, POWER espcially within a religion go hand in hand.... Just wondering who are the pimps?
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Post by grandma on Apr 5, 2008 13:42:42 GMT -5
Cherie, I wondered about the many spelling errors in Jerome's letter, too. Also, the letter starts out talking about "some former brother workers" and then refers to "him", not "them". Grandma
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Post by cheechette on Apr 5, 2008 14:38:38 GMT -5
Mental and physical abuse is one thing, which is wrong if the accusations is true, but sexual abuse from the ministers (the workers are not ministers ( remember they are only people as you and I who are suppose to be preaching the bible to save other people) committing sexual acts with the children of the people who are professing (or pretending to be professing) is unbelievable. When the head overseer (who believes he is the pope) sends these workers to other states to cover up their wrong-doings is just as guilty as they are. Besides, I believe the workers (or as the Court Judge called them so-called ministers) are suppose to be saving people and not sitting in the court room on a physical abuse case. Am I right to say the bible quotes as the overseer being the elder? Then why is Jerome called the overseer. Maybe for his so-called ministers. I also know that the 2 Russian girls (that Jerome has placed in a home with a couple) was being cloned to be workers. Is the religion so hard up for workers that Jerome is cloning people to be workers even if they are mentally disturbed? George Walker (who thought he was starting a great religion) would drop dead from all of this if he wasn't already dead! Many things have been printed on the case, but the real facts are still left out. Let's get Jerome on the stand in the court. Real facts may be known then.
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Post by dotberry on Apr 5, 2008 15:11:02 GMT -5
now there is a good idea. it brings justice (maybe), it gives the exes who love this sh- something to jerk off to, and it gets them out of our face.. a new board, a good idea. What is WRONG with you?? There is nobody making you stay on this board. Stop acting so crude and childish. You're not going to change the board--so why not go use the one you created at the CafeWhatever?? The one in your profile? Where you can RULE it like you want? Get a grip! By Cherie - (at mom's computer)
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Post by Michelle on Apr 5, 2008 15:22:29 GMT -5
Sorry, some of them were typos. This letter was sent to the elders of meetings in March, now has been resent with 'a brother worker' replaced with 'some brother worker'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2008 16:03:13 GMT -5
Sorry, some of them were typos. This letter was sent to the elders of meetings in March, now has been resent with 'a brother worker' replaced with 'some brother worker'. Another thread refered to 'three' workers. It could be that only one of the three is currently 'under investigation.'
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Post by CherieKropp on Apr 5, 2008 17:06:41 GMT -5
Sorry, some of them were typos. This letter was sent to the elders of meetings in March, now has been resent with 'a brother worker' replaced with 'some brother worker'. It's now been resent to just the elders or to all the friends?
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Post by pleasing people on Apr 5, 2008 17:11:17 GMT -5
"you can please some of the people some of the time, " " " " " " " all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, BUT YOU CANNOT PLEASE ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME.
Here we a have a situtation where there has been CONSTANT ridicule and abuse of workers not takeing molestation and abuse within the church, to authorities. They are accussed of hiding perpertrators.
Now we have workers takeing a stand and ensureing that authorites are notifed and the law take its course.
What happens......the workers are still ridiculed and abused.....
WHAT DO YOU GUYS WANT. WHAT WILL YOU BE HAPPY WITH....
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT....BURN AT STAKE......GET REAL GUYS.
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Post by ithascome on Apr 5, 2008 17:25:36 GMT -5
Really... I have read many good things about Lyle Schober.
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Post by pleasing people on Apr 5, 2008 17:29:03 GMT -5
Some have said good things about LS but I know some that think he is weak and unwise.
re read this thread "ithascome", enough is NEVER enough for some.
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Post by Michelle on Apr 5, 2008 19:35:58 GMT -5
This letter has been sent to all in the great state of Michigan
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